The search for light weight beyond AGD products......

[Aegis]

It has only been one year since my son and I started to play Paintball, but the arms race has been furious. We ended our first "season" with an Emag, an RT PRo, a very nice retro mag and a ghetto stock mag for the really bad days.

Got to thinking about upgrades, and the weight issue. I love my RT Pro - a lot - but it is one heavy mother. Compared to my Son's retromag, it was a bit heavy, but by the time we put the flatline on his and an Armageddon on mine, the difference was more noticable.

Got me to thinking about all the components of marker. For example, I had a stainless line and a proconnect on mine. Don't know the weight of that combo, but I'll bet when you compare it to macroline the extra weight is more than you can mill out of a rail.

Anyway, I'll cut it short. I traded off enough gear to pursue two projects and compare weight.

#1 ULE configuration - Xvalve, ULE body, rogueneck, roguerail, roguegrip, intelliframe

#2 RTPro configuration - xvalve, no-rise stainless body, RTP forgrip, no sight rail, intelliframe

The reason for #2 is that it is a much more comfortable rig for me, but a stock RT Pro is pretty heavy. I really like the way the meaty grip well in front of the frame, though. I am a tall guy and it fits great.

Then it will be time to compare drops and tanks. Should be able to compare a Flatline, Armageddon, 45/4500 crossfire, Raptor and maybe more.

The plan is to weigh components and assembled markers and document the results. Might be interesting to see where the real weight reduction is gained, as we pay big bucks for a few ounces on a regular basis.

Later

Brian

[Steelrat]

Did you ever feel SPS16s mech mag that he bought from covadsucks? It was insanely light. It had (if I remember correctly):

ULE body
stock mag rail
intelliframe
some light foregrip
Cp barrel (I think)

It was incredibly light, even with a tank and a hopper. It made me want to get one.

That having been said, I have another suggestion: Featherweight Viking ;)

[Aegis]

"Basically, you get to use any foregrip combo with the RogueRail. "

There, see, I already learned something. I think the new AGD bike grips are dead sexy, but they look kinda hefty. Maybe I can use a vert ASA without the RT PRo grip rail and still have the nice fat grip my meaty paws yearn for.

This could be fun.

By the way, anyone have any ideas on a nice light, tight screw-in style drop that will get the tank off the grip a bit more than a standard bottomline?

[Steelrat]

CP rail and on/off, like I use on my cocker and viking.

http://www.automags.org/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=1027087

[Z-man]

You know also just a small suggestion from my end. If you are looking to use the RT foregrip (which I like as well) you might consider snagging an old RT Classic foregrip. I have one on my RT Pro. 2 reasons:

1) Its lighter than the RT Pro (because its a gas through not a block of aluminum).

2). It moves the air connections way out of the way concerning your hand and grip frame. As I was griping about and Ryan pointed out to me, the E-Mags are a bit awkward to run airlines to. You have to have this big ol "Alaskan Pipeline" hose running the length of your gun and then down to the tank to keep it out of the way of your hands.

Now that you are pushing the arms race, not I have to see what else I can look into ;)

[Bulldog]

I'm looking into a new tank for similar reasons, so I'll just share what I've found. The Crossfire 45/45 pre-set screw in is 2.7 lbs. The 45/45 Flatline is 2.8, and the 45/45 Mac Dev Conquest is 2.1. The Mac Dev runs at about 600 psi max, but can be set up to run higher. This is according to their web sites.

[the larch]

go with the macdev. The one I have has an insane recharge. It can really help your trigger reactivity

[Bulldog]

Yea that's what I'm going to do. Did you have to swap out the spring or something to run high pressure?

[Aegis]

Eagerly awaiting the new parts - including a new factor, a Stiffi barrel. Also buying a digital scale today to start weighing parts. I am thinking of doing a weight/cost comparison. For example, milling 3 oz out of your rail costs $35, or $11.66 per ounce. Going with a ULE body will save you x ounces at lets say $100 cost. Is that as much bang for your buck?

[the larch]

apparently the old max attacks could pressure up as far as you wanted. That is what I am using. It looks bulky, but is pretty light.
Here's a pic:
http://www.uploadit.org/files2/051103-magdev3.JPG

[GT]

Originally posted by Aegis
Eagerly awaiting the new parts - including a new factor, a Stiffi barrel. Also buying a digital scale today to start weighing parts. I am thinking of doing a weight/cost comparison. For example, milling 3 oz out of your rail costs $35, or $11.66 per ounce. Going with a ULE body will save you x ounces at lets say $100 cost. Is that as much bang for your buck?

Good Idea,
I built a total ULE, ULT, Y mag in my sig. I would be suprised if the gun with scepter SS backed barrel was over 2lbs. It was just insanly light. I would really love to see if I could get Nicad to build one of these for me....

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=59051

To be perfectly honest after I built my x valved mag I thought the x valve was kinda a waste. Sure its light but for the cost, ouch. I have never seen shootdown on a mech mag running a good tank, needless to say I would be surpised to see anyone run 12bps+ on a mech mag, that would actually cause shoot down.

BTW: get a scale that measure in grams, preferable to 1/10th.

jb

[Aegis]

This is getting interesting. Here's what I have so far..

Weighed a bunch of parts and marker configurations. By selecting the heaviest components, I can come up with a marker that weighs in at 8.78 lbs.. By selecting the lightest components, it comes in at 6.4 lbs!. That is a difference of almost 2.4 lbs, by the way.

If I can figure out how to post a table I'll show you what the results were. Here is a hint - the next ULE frontier is a carbon fiber intelli.

[GT]

Originally posted by Aegis
If I can figure out how to post a table I'll show you what the results were. Here is a hint - the next ULE frontier is a carbon fiber intelli.

You can use the stock plastic frame that classic and minis come with. gurantee to drop some pounds. Or you could just mill out all that extra crap AGD puts inside the grip frame. get some lighter panel grips, stayaway from stickies.

The problem is going to be a balance issue. At some point you rig is going to be major top heavy since there is not really much you can do to make a hopper weight. However you could buy a lighter hopper, I use a Rico LCD for the mech mags.

jb

[Aegis]

Good points. Had not considered the balance issue. I realize that weight is not everything - For example, on the RT Pro I find that the grip location justifies the extra weight of the rail. And what I found is what you just said - a Rico in place of an EvoII saves you 8 ounces and some bucks - much better than buying ULE parts!

Here's the table with the info

simple minded web page (http://home.comcast.net/~bmillin/)

[Aegis]

Arising from the depths of the parts bin, I bring you:

The GhettoULE

http://home.comcast.net/~bmillin/GhettoULE.JPG

By choosing the lightest components I have on hand, we have a Mag that weighs 5lbs, 14 oz ready to play. That is 2 lbs 10 ounces less than my RT Pro with an EvoII and Armageddon.

This thing feels LIGHT and it actually shoots pretty well. Not that this is what I want to end up with, just kinda fun to think about while planning a new buildup.

[Z-man]

now if only I could be happy for you by saying I could see the picts... :(

[Aegis]

Yeah, Yeah, everyone is a critic. Pic fixed.

[Z-man]

what! no ULE body or X-valve?!. I gotta weigh my SFL. I don't like to say it but, it's lighter than my ULE RT Pro. Problem is tha I don't have an accurate small scale.... PUNKS!!

Still neat stuff you got going there! We could make a chart or simple Excel document that lets you input the various components of a would be Mag setup and it spits out the weight. We could have:

Valve
Rail
Body
Grip
Hopper
variable #5 (barrel)
variable #6 (drop/ASA/Cradle)
variable #7 (Tank)

Now who likes that evil math based app around here?

[Aegis]

The simple minded web page linked above is cut & paste from an excel file. That is how I came up with the weight of the GhettoULE - my scale doesn't go past 5 lbs..

As soon as my ULE parts show up I'll figure out how to link to the excel sheet in a more useful way.

[the larch]

balance is key though. I always use a sliding rail drop forward so that I can position the tank to balance the gun on the grip. If you really want a gun to "feel" light make sure it is balanced.

[Anthraxx]

In all reality the only way to save weight or to get rid of it is to go with composite or titanium components. I don't know the exact amounts of weight that will be reduced, but working in the aerospace industry I work with alot of titanium/carbon fiber parts. Also your tank plays a major factor in weight and as stated in another post balance. I know on my Mag I turned the tank backwards and it more or less puts all the weight towards the front. Who knows maybe in the future when I can get some machine time in I'll make a few test pieces out of titanium for a weight comparison.