What's with the declining support for the Mag?

[melster]

I had to buy spare parts for my mag, and I went to two paintball stores in Lake Forest, CA...Paintball Players Club & XS Paintball, and neither of them had Mag parts! I'm having to buy it off of ebay.

Heck, iisports doesn't even seem to carry Mags! Neither does Skanline! Is AGD being outmarketed?

[CoFFeY[NiTrO]]

Is AGD being outmarketed?

psh....hell no

[RoadDawg]

Hey contact RogueFactor. He can get ya parts from AGD. He doesn't own a store but he might as well with all the stuff he gets.

[spacedtedybear]

I'm gonna assume you're talking about the II online store. Both the II sports in San Jose and Los Gatos carry mags and mag parts in stock.

[WARPED1]

Originally posted by melster
Is AGD being outmarketed? Yes.
Sorry, but AGD couldn't market a Big Mac to an ethiopian.
Great products, crappy marketing, just my opinion, put your flamethrowers down zombies..............

[melster]

Yeah. I think it's like PCs vs. Macs. The Mac may be a superior product, but PCs are generic and mass marketed.

Also, since PCs can be made by anybody, market penetration is much greater. Mags are only made by AGD. Yeah I know they're sold by PTP too, but all they make are the bodies really, and just resell AGD regulators.

[AGD]

California has always been cocker world.

Warped1, your always so postitive....

AGD

[USAF-Flyboy with a Mag]

Originally posted by AGD
California has always been cocker world.

AGD

Oh so true Mr Kaye, but don't worry..the So Cal AO'ers are educating them one at a time =)

[RoadDawg]

Originally posted by USAF-Flyboy with a Mag


Oh so true Mr Kaye, but don't worry..the So Cal AO'ers are educating them one at a time =)

We are doing it more then one at a time. When we have a decent get together of 20+ mags it definatly draws attention at SC Village.

[WARPED1]

Originally posted by AGD


Warped1, your always so postitive....

AGD I was teasing mate! Forgot a smiley, sorry! Your products are great, but alas, marketing sucks.

[USAF-Flyboy with a Mag]

I was getting plenty of attention with the Xmag on Sunday at Velocity. From what I heard...word made it back to the local shop too about it haha

[FragTek]

Mags sure seem to have a popular and powerful presence in Washington. I know quite a few people that still rock mags.

I have been able to convert some people over too, its amazing what you can do when you've got "the hookup" :)

[melster]

Originally posted by AGD
California has always been cocker world.

AGD

We've got Democrats, earthquakes, fires and cockers. :)

[USAF-Flyboy with a Mag]

Man I was just thinking...
People are going to crap their pants if we pull of this so cal vs nor cal ao meet....definately going to be plenty of mags on the field then.

[RoadDawg]

Originally posted by USAF-Flyboy with a Mag
I was getting plenty of attention with the Xmag on Sunday at Velocity. From what I heard...word made it back to the local shop too about it haha

It was pretty cool last time during the Day of Ash when a group of us were on the Lego field I was playing tape and people were tripping over how fast our Emags were shooting plus how tight it was with a warp feed.

[USAF-Flyboy with a Mag]

Originally posted by melster


We've got Democrats, earthquakes, fires and cockers. :)



AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAH

[RoadDawg]

Originally posted by melster


We've got Democrats, earthquakes, fires and cockers. :)

Can't forget flooded streets.

[Rope a Dope]

Yep... can't get away from cockers here in Nor-Cal, but then again Glen Palmer is down the street. :D

My area has a pretty good mix, but.. dominate are cockers and Intimidators. Bob Long is a few towns over so... that explains why.

I work at a paintball shop.. I really want to get mags in, but... they simply don't sell. My buddy works at a paintball shop and he had an e-mag there for YEARS, that thing had so much dust on it.. one day someone came in and bought it, $200 under what my buddy got it for cost.

We all know it's one of the best guns, it's just people don't know that.... when people shoot my ULE E-mag at fields they are amazed at it's performance. With the new 3.2 software I actually may convert some people, hehehe :)

[FragTek]

All hail 3.2 :) I was so amazed. Everyone I know was so amazed. What a great new version!!!!

[gibby]

Originally posted by RoadDawg


It was pretty cool last time during the Day of Ash when a group of us were on the Lego field I was playing tape and people were tripping over how fast our Emags were shooting plus how tight it was with a warp feed.
GAH!!! Yeah...I should know! I was one of those guys you shot out!!! YESH!!!

[AGD]

HEY! Don't our cool boxes count for something!!! :)

Yea I guess:
the largest owners group on the net
1,000,000 posts from AGD customers
online chat parties
the first paintball racecar
TK vs Hollywood celebrities
country wide AO meets
Full page coverage in APG of the company president first off the boat at D-Day
AGD team winning Skyball
our euro pro team Storm forcing Dynasty to change strategy
hot spokesmodel who actually plays
donut orgies
all kinds of posters
pro players like Manny and Jay
prize contests for designs
tech classes
AGD official open house parties
the tongue video
the HALO barn video
Butters 30 BPS video
and more new products than ANY other manufacturer

means we suck at marketing.

AGD

[FragTek]

Go get em Tom!

AGD r0x0rs!

[nippinout]

Originally posted by AGD
HEY! Don't our cool boxes count for something!!! :)

Yea I guess:
the largest owners group on the net
1,000,000 posts from AGD customers
online chat parties
the first paintball racecar
TK vs Hollywood celebrities
country wide AO meets
Full page coverage in APG of the company president first off the boat at D-Day
AGD team winning Skyball
our euro pro team Storm forcing Dynasty to change strategy
hot spokesmodel who actually plays
donut orgies
all kinds of posters
pro players like Manny and Jay
prize contests for designs
tech classes
AGD official open house parties
and more new products that ANY other manufacturer

means we suck at marketing.

AGD

WHA?!?!?

TK, pics of this racecar! Or are we just talking about the Cougar...

Don't forget that old big rig in the list.

[Spleen]

Originally posted by AGD

hot spokesmodel who actually plays


I let that one slip, so Ill fix it for ya.


Originally posted by AGD

hot hot hot hot hot hot hot hot hot hot hot hot hot hot hot hot hot hot spokesmodel who actually plays extremely well

[SpecialBlend2786]

I kinda like walking onto a field and having the only mag around. People are always interested in it cause its so tiny.

[bryceeden]

Originally posted by AGD
California has always been cocker world.

AGD

You think California is anti-mag cocker country you should see Utah. I only know of four in the entire state and two of them are back ups to cockers. Every one still thinks cockers shoot farther, and even when I get the same range with my mag they tell me the chrono is wrong and my velocity really is higher than theirs.

[hostage]

I wouldn't say they suck at advertising. Look at the people who purchase mags and then look at other owners. People who own mags are in the 1337 class :) The quality is amazing, an upgrade is more than just putting a new ram or eye on the marker. There are way to many gemmics out there. Also look at how many people are making and selling cockers. I think AGD is the most honest and ethical pb company out there. Look at smartparts and places that produce cockers. I talked to ProPB who make the freeflow, and they think cockers still shoot futher. Lastly the only mag owners who are dissing mags are the ones who have a 2k3 intimidator and purchase a 68 classic mag and try to compare thier speed etc. Then I have to tell them that the classic is as old as they are, not a new 2k3.
-Doron

[Hexis]

Originally posted by AGD

the largest owners group on the net
1,000,000 posts from AGD customers
online chat parties
the first paintball racecar
TK vs Hollywood celebrities
country wide AO meets
Full page coverage in APG of the company president first off the boat at D-Day
AGD team winning Skyball
our euro pro team Storm forcing Dynasty to change strategy
hot spokesmodel who actually plays
donut orgies
all kinds of posters
pro players like Manny and Jay
prize contests for designs
tech classes
AGD official open house parties
the tongue video
the HALO barn video
Butters 30 BPS video
and more new products than ANY other manufacturer


But do all of those things come in different colors? :D

We all know that real performance means nothing. It's all about the colors.

Can I get my EMag flashed with 3.2 in a different color?

[shartley]

Let me first say that I love AGD Products, and push them every chance I get.

With that said, most of what was listed is not being seen by potential new customers. A laundry list of things does not mean that “marketing” is being done well. Would anyone claim that a church with a large congregation and many sermons and programs is a “success” if only those inside the walls of the church know what is being said and done?

Let me show how this list does not actually mean marketing is being done well, as I think Tom is trying to say it is (but I could be mistaken)…

HEY! Don't our cool boxes count for something!!! :)
Yes, it does. And I think it is a fantastic improvement given what folks are used to seeing with other products. Thumbs up! But for the most part, you have to buy the product to see the cool boxes. ;)

Yea I guess:
the largest owners group on the net
1,000,000 posts from AGD customers
online chat parties
Many of those posts have nothing to do with paintball, AGD, or anything but getting high post counts. But like so many other numbers games, they are used to try to show something that is really not there. And how many ACTIVE Members are there, vs “members”?

And the chat parties….. sorry, fun for some, but don’t ask too many folks what they think of them…… only ask diehard AOers and AGD Zealots (and yes, there ARE those out there). ;)

the first paintball racecar
Okay…. Good start there.. no pun intended. :D

TK vs Hollywood celebrities
And how many paintball players know about this? If I went up to a random paintball player at a local field, would they know about this? How about if I asked 50 players?

country wide AO meets
This is a bit misleading. There are meets around the country, which makes them “country wide”, but they are still few in number and how many converts are gained from these meetings? Some I am sure, but to me it seems that the meetings are “elbow rubbing” and “party time” for fellow AO members. Sure, that is a good thing, but it is not what I would call “marketing”. Refer to the “church” comments. It is more like keeping the family happy and stoked about the purchase they made… which again, is a good thing, but not really “marketing”.

Full page coverage in APG of the company president first off the boat at D-Day
That is wonderful. Seriously it is. Great start, and hopefully it will draw new customers. :)

AGD team winning Skyball
This again, is fantastic. Now go to any local field and ask a random player who won Skyball. Now ask any random player who the teams were who even played at Skyball period. Okay…. that is unfair… go ask 10-15 random players.

our euro pro team Storm forcing Dynasty to change strategy
See last comment.

hot spokesmodel who actually plays
See last comment.

donut orgies
See last comment.

all kinds of posters
Available to everyone, but purchased by whom? Current AGD Customers? See Church comment.

pro players like Manny and Jay
See Skyball Comment.

prize contests for designs
Known by AO Members…. And AGD gets as much if not more out of those contests then the participants do. ;)

tech classes
Okay… taken by whom? AO Members, Store Owners and Techs, etc.? This is not what I would call “marketing”.

AGD official open house parties
Announced where? And who attends? Are they majority made up of current Mag owners, or AO members, or are they mostly folks not familiar with AGD?

the tongue video
the HALO barn video
Butters 30 BPS video
and more new products than ANY other manufacturer
See Skyball Comment.

Please understand that I am NOT trying to shoot down the work and effort AGD is doing, only pointing out that what is listed has not really expanded the purchase and spread of Mags across the board (from what I have seen locally or on other forums). And a good many of the things listed are great, but really only apply to the “Church” itself.

Now, there may be more to each of the posted “list” things, but what I am saying is that I have not seen any of those things increase the number of Mags I have seen on the field, nor increased the average paintball player’s knowledge about AGD or what they are doing. And that is also why we keep hearing rumors that AGD is dead, or on its last leg. If “marketing” was successful, these rumors would cease to exist. You can’t have it both ways.

And as for Mag owners being an elite group…. That is great for OWNERS, but the aim of a manufacturer is to get their products in as many hands as possible. While being elite may make the owners feel special, being purchased in large numbers makes manufacturers feel special…. And helps pay the bills.

Is AGD starting to do better? Sure. But it will take time for the paintball populous to “get it”. And that is simply because AGD (it would appear) does not have the funds needed to do an all out marketing blitz. This is not a slam in any way, many great companies do not either. There is no pride lost in not having the money to advertise like other companies do, none at all. But I don’t agree that the things listed are actually doing much more than I stated…. Unfortunately.

This is my OPINION. This is only how I see things. Some may agree, some may disagree. It is all good. And I am only trying to express my opinions on this matter in a calm and rational manner, not being condescending or rude in any way. Tom can take what I said and disregard it, or he can look at it as another viewpoint to examine… no problems with me either way. I hope that it helps though.

ADDED: I don’t think there is a “decline” in support for the Mag though. I want to make that clear. I see the Mag holding steady, just not really being helped overall by the list provided.

[GA Devil]

Mags and parts are scarce here too. I have to order everything I want. LOL I have yet to even see an E-mag first hand and just seens a Xmag this past weekend (guy who runs ultimate paintball has it). Kinda disappointing seeing when I was up in michigan they were everywhere. But so far I have been able to put myself in a intellifeed mag and my wife in a hypermag. Maybe they will pick up here sometime.

[FragTek]

I think that mags are slowly but surely picking back up in popularity with the release of the X-Mag, and with all of the great stuff that they are making for E-Mags and mechanicals I don't see why they wouldn't be hitting the spotlight again.

The only major problem that I am still really seeing with the Automag is the gas effieciency, there is none! There are also a few little doodads here and there that I could squabble about, but I don't feel them big enough cons to even bring up.

[GA Devil]

gotta say I love the "nice bodies" with clare ad. Got my attention.

[melster]

The only reason why I brought this up in the first place is because I love mags and I cannot believe that they're losing out the other markers.

When they first came out, mags and cockers were pretty much neck and neck as far as market penetration. In my neck of the woods (SoCal) at least, it seems that cockers have FAR outstripped mags.

Kingman's Spyder has the low end market, WDP's Angel has the electro high-end. The mechanical cockers and mags duke it out for the middle, but it looks to me like WGP has the upper hand.

AGD should be all over II & Skanline to feature their products, or at least offer them online! If no one knows where to buy one, how can you sell it to them? The superior product does not guarantee a sales win.

[PaintSkater00]

Actually people supporting mags has grown. If anyone of you has gone on pbreview.com this is a thread on a wish list(not on the automag thread but in general talk) and over half the people said they wished they had x-mags!

[Jeffy-CanCon]

There has been a decline in support for Automags over the years, from what I have seen. One large pball store I was in last summer had a single tiny shelf with Mag doodads, and they had to dust off a box of spare parts for my friend who wanted to buy some more nubbins. Locally, our store carries a good selection of parts (even pump-mag kits), and provides good support. I think it helps that they sponsor a club with a dozen or so die-hard Mag-users in it. :)

Melster has it right about the high & low end markets squeezing Mags and Cockers into a small middle ground. But I see the X-Mag and E-Mag taking their rightful share of the high-end market in the near future.

I agree with Shartly that a lot of the cool stuff we see on AO doesn't necessarily help AGD with marketing, as it is essentially "preaching to the choir". We're here because we already like and/or own AGD products. And most people don't know about the racecar, or Clare, or Skyball. Most people, especially new players know only what they see in the magazines: ads for Kingman, Tippmann and a dozen aftermarket cocker brands, and photos of pros with Timmys and Angels.

I disagree with the suggestion that WGP has "outmarketed" AGD. Most of those cockers you see out there are not WGP products. I bet if you check the production numbers coming from each company, they are fairly similar. AGD just doesn't have the same clone market that WGP has. It is pretty similar to the whole IBM/Apple thing, I think.

It's nice to be "l337". It's nicer to see your equipment being supported by your local stores and fields.

[MinimagRockin']

Originally posted by USAF-Flyboy with a Mag


Oh so true Mr Kaye, but don't worry..the So Cal AO'ers are educating them one at a time =)

Indeed, "educating" them direct from the school of hard knocks.

[RoadDawg]

Originally posted by bryceeden


You think California is anti-mag cocker country you should see Utah. I only know of four in the entire state and two of them are back ups to cockers. Every one still thinks cockers shoot farther, and even when I get the same range with my mag they tell me the chrono is wrong and my velocity really is higher than theirs.

I used to live in Salt Lake and I know exactly what your talking about. I had a micro RT when I lived up there but it has since evolved into a ULE Mech mag to a ULE Emag. So next time I'm up I'll have something to really rip with. I keep tempting my brother to put his Shocker down and give my emag a try but he won't listen to me.

[Lohman446]

Let me ask this about marketing, and correct me if I am entirely wrong, and lets not make it a marketing question necesarrily, lets make it a business question.

There comes a point in business - or should, that those involved in it make a living that they are comfortable with, and do not necessarily seek more income. At this point these people are doing what they want to do, again hopefully. There is an effort made to maintain, and to innovate things that current customer's will want, and upgrade to. I beleive that AGD may be at this place - they spend a lot of money without great revenue if viewed in dollars on AO, and on sponsorships (though I beleive sponsorships are overrated by many companies in paintball). However, they are advancing the game and maybe that is there goal.

Look at all your questions - all the cool things that AGD has done. Now stop asking the question in a way of has it increased revenew and ask instead, has it made the game more fun for all involved with AGD? Not everything should be measured in $$ signs, SP can do that. I look up to AGD and TK - they have tried to consistently improve the game through actual testing and thought - rather than just trying to sell the newest idea, they have tried to improve the game, and build a strong company, not just make as much money as possible today, maybe that is why they are one of the oldest, most respected names in paintball today.

[Konigballer]

you really cant fault with the logic in shartley's last post. I agree with him, and the church analogy fits well. Anyways, Mag popularity fell off years ago and held steady with the diehards. There just isnt hords of people flocking to purchase them. When people see an Xmag in person they spaz and say they love it. But whats the point in loving a companies' marker if you cant even get a hold of one yourself or even see one in the first place?

Alot of people who own mags have them as a backup gun to their main marker. Thats what has to change.

[Meph]

Originally posted by AGD
HEY! Don't our cool boxes count for something!!! :)

AGD



HAHAHAHA!

Why did you have to bring up THAT Tom? Of all the things, the dreaded Mag box!

[bornl33t]

Originally posted by WARPED1
Yes.
Sorry, but AGD couldn't market a Big Mac to an ethiopian.
Great products, crappy marketing, just my opinion, put your flamethrowers down zombies..............


while I don't agree with it, I about pee'd my pants I was laughing so hard.... a Big mac to an ethiopian... bwaaahahaahhaa