paintball gatlin gun .....NEED HELP!

[ramenjames]

ok well i have and idea as to how it would work
but my question is how would i get the barrels ( 3 of em)
to spin in perfect time with the bolt movment



ok thats kinda confusing

what im trying to say is what would i use to get the gun to shoot at the same time the barrel is in line (with the bolt)and what should i use to cock the bolt and spin the barrels???



*is clueless*


well any help would be very appreciated and welcome

[Big'n slo]

Just to get this straight, your thinking of using one bolt with multiple barrels? What type of bolt/valve are you planning on using?
You'll also have to consider loading paint..

[Commissar_Loki]

well, The best way would be rig it so that by pulling the trigger you don't fire the actual gun, rather spin the barrel, set a wheel with little sears, and use the rotation of the barrels to set the gun off thus it couldnt mess up. as for finding out the timing, I'd say trial and error, also would be easier if you cut down the body so that the ball doesnt slow down for a couple inches then go into the rotationg barrel. Try and think of what WWI pilots had done, they had their maching guns timed so that when the props were in the way, the gun wouldnt fire until the props wer out of the way again. just my 2 cents, good luck.

[Slimm Jimm]

They used a cam system.

don't use a bolt and just use a valve so that you have one less moving part, and then load the paint into whichever barrel is not being shot.

just an idea :D

[Target Practice]

I just have one question...why? First off, would you really want to lug that biotch into battle everytime? What about shootdown due to recharge time? How are you going to attach the barrels? And if it is for a vehicle, i think i have a better idea.

What you could do, on a vehicle, is to build a mount to carry two guns. To attach the guns to the mount you can have a thin metal piece come up from the mount, and you could fasten it to the grip with the screws that are already in the grip (i.e. Model 98). Also, the air system would be easier to figure out (two words...remote hose). You can either pull each trigger yourself, or you could rig up a mechanism. Either way, it is a hell of a lot eaisier than a rotating barrel configuration.

I do, however have experience in building vehicles (a 70 mph methanol powered gokart included) and over a year of metal fabrication experience. The mount would not be that hard to build.

[ramenjames]

i dont want to lug it in to battle its just an idea
if i build it it will go on to a veicle tho

[trains are bad]

It would definately be cool project, but think kind of silly when fast markers do 20bps with single barrels.

[ExtremeODD]

mount a few black dragun TESs on there, they are up to 20 bps full auto, and got some anti chop eyes, they are like 260 for each, and get a mass fast loader, like an halo or evo2 with some massive *** attachment for compasity. whoo

[fnherstal]

tippman hellhound has a six barrel gatlin gun on golf buggy type thing

http://www.tippmann.com

[SlartyBartFast]

You'll never be able to time a single bolt to multiple barrels. Unless the rotation of the barrels is controlled by a stepper motor and the barrels stop rotating while the bolt cycles.

That would actually have a great advantage of allowing the paintbalss to leave the barrel without any cetripital acceleration induced by the rotation of the barrels.

I'd like to see the tippmann gatling gun in action, but my guess would be that all the paint flies up and to one side from where the gun is pointed.

I'd actually think that an Automag Quad-Cannon type arrangement would be far better than any gattling gun type setup for paintball. Heck, I think ANY gun in a quad setup would be better.

Have a look at the dual minimag (can't remember the thread). Or the Palmer 'Nasties'. Just mount all the guns so that all the feed necks travel close together.

I thought that a setup with a large hopper with 4 Halo bottoms feeding 4 warps would be ideal. Then you can have increadible feed rates and not need a giant overhead hopper.

[ScatterPlot]

The Tippmann Hellhound's gatling gun DOES NOT WORK. It's for looks only. It has a drill with some gears to spin the barrels, but other than just spinning it does absolutely nothing.

[SlartyBartFast]

Originally posted by bertmcmahan
The Tippmann Hellhound's gatling gun DOES NOT WORK. It's for looks only. It has a drill with some gears to spin the barrels, but other than just spinning it does absolutely nothing.

The Tippmann website claims 50 rounds/second. The 6000 round hopper and feed systems certainly suggest it was designed to work. So much for their credibility if it doesn't....

But if it is too much to maintain and no longer works, it just proves my point that gattling guns are a bad idea for paintball.

Quad cannon automags, 20bps/gun >> 80bps :D

[ScatterPlot]

The feed and all might just be for show, because I have seen numerous places saying that it doesnt work and all.

[Crimson_Turkey]

I've seen it shoot. They took off a dummie's jerset from 40 feet. It does get out of time though and then just is an autochopper.

[ScatterPlot]

Hmm, well OK I beleive you. Some people have been wrong then but I cant even remember where I saw that. Ive just always been told by almost everywhere I can think of that it doesn't, but an "eye-witness" and all says it shoots, then hey they've seen the thing.

[GA Devil]

Tippman did this years ago. Its mounted on the front of the hell hound and is run by a dewalt drill. Look into them. It does work. They just dont use it much with the lame excuse that its to hard to clean the vehicle.

[SlartyBartFast]

4 Mags mounted on a common assembly with a solenoid for each Mag and one trigger.

The trigger has a circuit that determines TOTAL maximum ROF and alternates a trigger pull signal to each Mag.:D

Required components:
4 - Mags
4 - Solenoids
1 - Trigger Frame
1 - Mounting assembly
1 - Circuit board.

First three are easy to get, building the assembly might take some skill, and the circuit board could be quickly put together using a BASICStamp.

[Big'n slo]

Obviously a couple of guns tied together will work better/easier but lacks the intimidation factor of a gatling style gun.

So, I drew up a quick design for an mag valved, 8 barrel, gatling gun.

http://home.comcast.net/~jeffreykier/Pics/gatling.gif

http://home.comcast.net/~jeffreykier/Pics/gatling1.gif

A little description:
The purple tube is your ball feed, it dumps into an 8 point "star" chamber with each point dumping into the chamber of a barrel. Centrifugal force would chamber the next ball after the valve resets.
The air supply would be a 4500psi SCBA (grey bottle) tank mounted in the middle of the barrels. It would spin with the assembly.
Each valve has a sear mounted via the grey plate, when the assembly spins a trigger activated ramp applies pressure to the bottom barrels sear just under the on/off pin. This will fire each barrel as it passes the bottom of the rotation.

[SlartyBartFast]

Originally posted by Big'n slo
Obviously a couple of guns tied together will work better/easier but lacks the intimidation factor of a gatling style gun.

So, I drew up a quick design for an mag valved, 8 barrel, gatling gun.

I don't disagree with the intimidation thing, and your quickie design is a neat approach.

But feeding the gattling gun at speeds exceeding what a single barreled paintball gun could shoot would be VERY difficult. I'm doubtful the centrifugal idea would be reliable. The Tippmann idea uses two feed systems, which effectively cuts the required feed rate on each to an acheivable 25 bps (considering their claimed 50bps).

I'd also mount the air tank so that the tank doesn't need to spin. A swivel joint could easily be used.

[Big'n slo]

Originally posted by SlartyBartFast

I'd also mount the air tank so that the tank doesn't need to spin. A swivel joint could easily be used.

Thought about a swivel joint but with the feed system as it is the only way in would be from the front.
As for the feed system itself, if the feed tube was force fed and kept the "star chamber" full the only factor would be the rotational speed of the assembly.

[SlartyBartFast]

Originally posted by Big'n slo
Thought about a swivel joint but with the feed system as it is the only way in would be from the front.

You'd need to have bearings front and rear anyways to support and spin th whole assembly. That actually complicates the use of the large diameter feed tube more than anything else.

But as you'd already have front and rear bearings, why not put the gas through a swivel joint in the front.


Originally posted by Big'n slo
As for the feed system itself, if the feed tube was force fed and kept the "star chamber" full the only factor would be the rotational speed of the assembly.

Still, disregarding the three big IFFs, your design problem is the same as the problem faced by current hopper designers. How do you get more than 20 bps from a hopper/feed system?


(IFF = If and Only If)

[Big'n slo]

You'd need to have bearings front and rear anyways to support and spin th whole assembly. That actually complicates the use of the large diameter feed tube more than anything else.

But as you'd already have front and rear bearings, why not put the gas through a swivel joint in the front.

True, a bearing in the front would be required, the rear would run on the gearing with idler gears to keep it steady. With that setup I would go with the swivel joint for air supply.


Still, disregarding the three big IFFs, your design problem is the same as the problem faced by current hopper designers. How do you get more than 20 bps from a hopper/feed system?


(IFF = If and Only If)

Your completely correct about the limits of feed systems. But the design isn't based on a continuous rate of fire. The larger the star chamber volume the longer a constant BPS could be held. Basically extended bursts. Then the feed system would resupply the paint reservoir.
I'd be happy to sustain 60 BPS for 20 seconds. (1200rnd reservoir)


The more we talk the more I'd like to build this :D

[SlartyBartFast]

Originally posted by Big'n slo
The larger the star chamber volume the longer a constant BPS could be held. Basically extended bursts. Then the feed system would resupply the paint reservoir.
I'd be happy to sustain 60 BPS for 20 seconds. (1200rnd reservoir)

The more we talk the more I'd like to build this :D

You’d never be able to sustain 60 bps for even a second. Or, your gun would be HUGE. 60 balls would mean 7.5 balls stacked and ready for each barrel. The diameter of the gun would be the size of a stack of 15-16 balls. That would make it very difficult to spin (rotational inertial), and impart large tangential velocities on the balls leaving the barrel (if the gun is rotating at a constant RPM).

Quick calculations (might be wrong):
balls = 60
sec/min = 60
balls/min = 3600
ball/rev = 8
rpm = 450

Also, the system would have to be designed to reach a minimum spin rate before firing to ensure the ball feed correctly and don’t ‘bobble’ in the ‘star chamber’.

To get rid of the tangential velocities and centripetal acceleration you really need to use a stepper motor to drive the gun. Then with each barrel, the gun can be spun, stopped, and held for the approx. 5 milliseconds it takes for the paintball to leave the barrel. This stationary moment could also maybe be capitalised on to feed the gun.

I suppose that it’s because the Tippmann design rotates at a constant RPM that it becomes a blender. I’d suspect it’s very difficult to feed the barrels as they fly past the feed mechanism. Thinking about it, the feed mechanism (if stationary) encounters the max fire rate no matter how many feeds there are. At some point your trying to chuck paint into a fast moving port. For sustained high rates of fire it would be a matter of first dividing the rate by numerous feeds, then finding a way to accelerate the balls to the rotational rate of the barrels.

Considering the acceleration probably required to get the paint into the breech, it’s probably breaking when it smacks into the breech wall.

Seems like an awful lot of work for some “cool factor”. :D

Perhaps we need a contest of some kind to really motivate development. Most paintballs in the air, shot one at a time (no using bazookas) wins. Maybe a paintball manufacturer could sponsor it. :D

Or, maybe AGD would like to sponsor someone with all those leftover surplus classic valves. :D :D

[Big'n slo]

SlartyBartFast,

After reading your last post it clicked, this thing would have to spin 7.5 times in a second to reach 60bps :eek:
It had better be perfectly centered at 450rpm or barrels would be flying everywhere :D


I suppose that it’s because the Tippmann design rotates at a constant RPM that it becomes a blender. I’d suspect it’s very difficult to feed the barrels as they fly past the feed mechanism. Thinking about it, the feed mechanism (if stationary) encounters the max fire rate no matter how many feeds there are. At some point your trying to chuck paint into a fast moving port. For sustained high rates of fire it would be a matter of first dividing the rate by numerous feeds, then finding a way to accelerate the balls to the rotational rate of the barrels.

Thats why I figured center feeding this beast and letting centrifugal force load would be the fastest loading style with no timing involved.

http://home.comcast.net/~jeffreykier/Pics/gatling2.gif



A contest would be great!!
And a couple of those classic valves would help too... :D

[SlartyBartFast]

Guessing values, calculation of cetripital force on a paintball at 450 rpm in a 4 in radius device would be on the order of 2lb. to which you have to add all the cetripital force being applied by all the other paintballs that are stacked up.

Seems you'd risk juicing those paintballs. :D

[Spleen]

Seems you'd risk juicing those paintballs.

But that is just a risk you gotta take. Either way, if it turned out IT WOULD BE BAD ***, and if it didnt, atleast you have something to work from when you make the next one.

[NoFearPaintballer]

Big'n slo wut program did you use for those digital pix and how and where can i get it is it free?

[Hephaestus]

ramenjames,

Glad to see someone start the ball rolling on another concept gun! Rereading your first thread. Are you thinking about using a revolving breech using one bolt? Very tempting concept! Got my gears turning on this one!


Big'n slo,

Nice drawings!

Here are some of my thoughts......

- A 3 barrel minigun is very possible to make.

- Use a cam to set the load and fireing timing sequence on the sear.

- Feed the balls from the outside and use a warp drive.

- Use a shroud to keep the balls in the chamber.

- The frame to hold the 3 bodies together is quite simple actually. Imagine 3 classic bodies tied together with the front frame mounting screw on to a donut type ring.

- Plum hardlines to meet a rotating swivel point using a quick disconnect.


Just some of my crazy sleepy ideas.
Hope someone pulls this one off.

Heph.

[Big'n slo]

NoFearPaintballer,

Those drawings are designed and rendered from AutoCad 2004. Sorry its not free, there are some limited demo versions floating about on the internet though.


Hep,
Figured you'd make your way in here :D
I figure with a center feed design you bypass the need for timing and increase BPS.
I've got a mock up of the "star chamber" almost ready to test, unfortunately I'm leaving in the morning for vacation :D

When I get back hopefully I can test my loading design.

[sinistershame]

Lets take the miser approach.
1. We want to intimidate the opponent.
2. We want to be accurate.
3. We want to shoot fast.
Here is what I did:
What I built is a relatively mean looking rotating barrel system that truly only fires from one center barrel. This way we achieve all of our goals with the minimum technical difficulty. The great thing is that you could use very light materials for the rotating barrels thus cutting down on your overall weight and keeping the necessary torque, needed to rotate the contraption, low as well. I was wondering if you have decided to rotate this thing with pneumatic force or electrical force. That is beside the point.
I used a RC racing motor with the standard rechargeable battery. The motor would run the rotation via a gear system. In any case the simplicity is that you have three alignment discs each with a hole for how ever many barrels you would like plus one in the middle. You would simply slide the marker into the middle hole, use an attachment suited for which ever marker you have in mind. The hardest thing here was mating the rotating sleeves with a stabilizing plate to serve as a mount for the motor and a mount for the marker. I had to pick the brain of some one a little more mechanically inclined than myself. I was told to use a bearing sleeve. This I welded the base plate to the inner ring of the bearings and the rotating inner discs to the outer ring. Do the same thing for the other two retaining discs. That will also reduce your friction on the barrel of the gun you slide into the middle hole. I hope this makes sense. An Automag or Mnimag is what I used it was real easy to screw the attaching base plate using the ASA screw. By the way the battery pack can be placed a little to the back of the marker to compensate for the weight. Yes it was portable, yes I did carry it (with a shoulder strap) but it looked mean as hell. I would use a full auto marker today. When I built this machine we didn't have electros and the Mag was the meanest thing on the market

[sinistershame]

i forgot one thing that we changed after it was done. It will look more realistic while carring and firing it, if the faux barrels are about 2-3 inches longer that the real barrel. And they need to be real tightly groupt together. This keeps the light and view of the real barrel down to a minimum.

[fnherstal]

found an airsoft site with gatlin guns
http://www.montysminiguns.com/MyMiniFull.htm

[Hephaestus]

OMG!

Now I want that bad boy for a mantelpiece!

[Faultie]

I saw a 4-barrel gatling on ebay once. It was built on some sort of e-spyder type gun. Only got 13bps, but it only went for 200+ or so (I think the guy took it off and sold it back-door). He said it worked, and judging from the internal pictures he sent me, I'd say it did too. He had a small timing circuit board, an electric drill, and the handle from a chainsaw on the back (w/ the trigger) for firing it. It was 6 or so feet long, but not very big around. I'll see if I can't find the pictures.
-Andrew
P.S. What about that gatling gun on montysminiguns that he says is in production? That one works I guess.

[TheJester]

what about something like a ram on a cocker? or like the cyclone feed on an A-5