When is the next california tour for AGD?

[Aegis]

Us left coasters feel left out with all this talk about the SE AO day. Just happened to see the airgun.com/news today while making and order, and it referred to TK's Cali trip from March 02. Time for another spin around the sunshine state!

[adam shannon]

ao meets are organized by members, and after you do a couple meets with great turnout tom may choose to come. all of this norcal socal whining about why doesnt tom come is foolish. agd isnt going to make your cake and let you eat it too...you plan a few meets, and if they are popular you may get some factory support next time around. of all the ao meets tom only goes to a couple each year...THE BIG ONES WITH HIGH TURNOUT (well accept nj, but thats a thread for another day and another rant by another guy).

[DiRTyBuNNy]

Originally posted by Aegis
Us left coasters feel left out with all this talk about the SE AO day. Just happened to see the airgun.com/news today while making and order, and it referred to TK's Cali trip from March 02. Time for another spin around the sunshine state!

Well...you might want to ask the people that actually come to the Ao-SoCal meets...we never expect Tom to show up for anything...

[Aegis]

Gee, thanks for your reply.

"all of this norcal socal whining about why doesnt tom come is foolish. agd isnt going to make your cake and let you eat it too.....{snip}
__________________
Yeah, I'm a prick...live with it. "

Happened once, might happen again. What is the issue? I just asked when it might happen. Lighten up.

[Steelrat]

Aegis, dont worry about anything he has to say. He's just one of those guys whose schtick is acting all nasty and abrasive, as if thats truly original. Theres a few on every forum.

I wouldn't hold out hope for any sort of AGD recognition. Number one, we don't have any of the AO "personalities" that seem to draw Tk's attention. Secondly, coming out here would represent quite a trip for anyone from AGD. Frankly, I never hear about Tk going to Washington, Oregon, Nevada, etc. Thirdly, I don't think AGD is particularly concerned about the California market. I've seen quite a few posts labeling our state as "cocker county."

[Steelrat]

Maybe, if we get enough people to sign up for the Norcal vs. Socal, we might get some AGD lovin'. Not me, of course, since I dont own a single AGD product ;)

[Aegis]

[i]Number one, we don't have any of the AO "personalities" ...[/B]

Only because he has not met the anti-poser crew.
http://www.automags.org/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=1041786

[AGD]

I visited all corners of the US this year. If you remember I was in LA with Budd for the scenario game in january. I was also there last year in LA and in Sacremento.

Get a big enough meet together and then you have some clout.

AGD

[Steelrat]

I had some clout last year. The doctor gave me some antibiotics, and it went away.

[Steelrat]

Aegis, since we are the anti-poseur crew, we arent supposed to care about any sort of attention. Its in our charter.

Lets push for Norcal vs. Socal. Thats our best shot. Next best bet is putting on a road trip to some even where he is going to show up, like Shatnerball.

[Aegis]

Gee, now I am not sure if I want to have some clout or not. I'd hate to have to explain it to my wife..."Honest, Honey, I got the clout online."

[DiRTyBuNNy]

here's AO SoCal from this past summer..

http://pages.prodigy.net/danlathum/paintball/ao%20socal%201.jpg

[Bulldog]

That was our first one right? Small compared to the last two.

[Steelrat]

You guys get better attendance then we do, thats for sure. But what we lack in numbers we make up for in lack of skill.

[Kevmaster]

Originally posted by DiRTyBuNNy
here's AO SoCal from this past summer..

http://pages.prodigy.net/danlathum/paintball/ao%20socal%201.jpg

and not to rag on you guys, but AOSE and AONJ bring in 100+...you didn't hit 20 there. Tom doesnt have anything against the west coast, its just the numbers! Why go to SoCal and see 20 when he can go to AOSE and see 100+?

[cphilip]

Well I can tell you this... Tom never commits to anything until he see's you can pull it off and he finds he has the time then as well. Those two things are hard to put in the same time frame. So far he has only come here well after it was going on anyway. He smartly waits to see if its GOING to happen before he commits. Who wouldn't? It doesn't matter what part of the country you in. He never commits to me unless he see's I pullin it off. I respect that too. Wouldn't want it any other way.

I suggest you do these things: Make it an AO event. Not just a group of guys getting a spot with all the others at a field. You can start that way but you have to have a larger vision. Spend some time making all the arrangements including your own field, cheap paint and just AO members around you...And then get some place where you all meet and have Dinner and just you all are together for a meeting/party... get 100 people to come to that THEN he will come. But you gotta prove you can do it first. And it takes some outlay and some risk. Can you do that? Have you done that? It's not easy. You have to know people that can deliver and there are always things cropping up no matter how well you plan. I dealing with last minute hassles even today! My paint supplier is not doing all he is supposed to. That sort of thing all the time. I got a million things to do tomorrow and the next three days! You have to have time away from work to do these things. Will your job allow you that kind of time? Can you commit to doing this and spending the time?

He has to maximize his return on his expenses and travel to where he gets the most bang for his buck. That's how you get people like Tom to come. That's how you get anyone that is busy and has a life to give up his weekend with his family. That's how you get 100+ people to do that as well. They want to know they going to someplace that is catering to them. They deserve that as it's their hard earned money and they want a good time and do not want to waste that on something that is speculative. They have to trust you to do all that set up for them and that it will be there when they get there. Tom is no different than any other member that is coming in that respect. That's how I see it anyway.

Those are just my observations and the principles I use when doing these. The thing is, even then, you never know what the turn out will be. You take a big risk. And you have to just develop an attitude that it realy doesn't matter. Then you just launch into it and organize and you have to Promote, promote and promote some more. Sometimes you even have to beg! It consumes most of your spare time for 6 months. You have to call in all your contacts and connections and make them excited about helping you do it. You can note the key AO members that pitch in to help me? I don't ask them. They just volunteer. All kinds of them do. It's a pleasure to know those kinds of people. Core members give a lot to make it happen. And if you do not have their respect and support and if you not willing to do all that then it will not happen. And even if you do that it's not something you can control all of it. It's a crap shoot... but you gotta roll em! And see if it happens. No amount of complaining is going to change that. You gotta do the work. Nuttin if free. I just a State Employee dudes. Nothing specail. But I do know how to make stuff happen. And thats how ya do it.

Anyway I hope that helps and I not said anything thats not the case. I don't think so. So go out and do it! If you want it to happen MAKE it happen. If I can help feel free to ask me.

Ok I done now... :D

[DiRTyBuNNy]

Originally posted by Kevmaster


and not to rag on you guys, but AOSE and AONJ bring in 100+...you didn't hit 20 there. Tom doesnt have anything against the west coast, its just the numbers! Why go to SoCal and see 20 when he can go to AOSE and see 100+?

And why the heck would you want to go to NJ when you can come to California? You may want to really think about that statement for a moment...

and the fact that we are the only 20 people shooting mags out here...I'm not saying Tom needs to come out here...i hate to be blunt but most of us could care less if Tom came out...we know nobody cares about us...so we do our own thing..

[Aegis]

Geez, guys, relax. I saw a Cali trip featured on Airgun.com's latest news - it is the 6th most recent post, look it up - and asked when it might happen again. Did not think that was particularly whiny. Other than Splatt attack, it is the only other AGD-attended event in the news since then.

As long as we are getting personal, might want to consider why this is still cocker country. What comes first, marketing or market share? Is it the fault of the AGD supporters out here that we do not have the presence the east coast does? I am fairly new to this whole thing, enlighten me.

[cphilip]

No... but notice we never limit ourselves to Mag owners? Like you just did in your comment? We attract "AO members" or even potential AO members no matter what marker they bring to these. We also involve our Angel owners. We diversify.

[DiRTyBuNNy]

Originally posted by Aegis
Geez, guys, relax. I saw a Cali trip featured on Airgun.com's latest news - it is the 6th most recent post, look it up - and asked when it might happen again. Did not think that was particularly whiny. Other than Splatt attack, it is the only other AGD-attended event in the news since then.

As long as we are getting personal, might want to consider why this is still cocker country. What comes first, marketing or market share? Is it the fault of the AGD supporters out here that we do not have the presence the east coast does?

you're preaching to the choir, man...you're preaching to the choir...why do you think I'm known as the NPPL/PSP Super Fan?

[the_next_guy_]

when is the next socal AO day?

[Aegis]

Originally posted by cphilip
No... but notice we never limit ourselves to Mag owners? Like you just did in your comment? We attract "AO members" or even potential AO members no matter what marker they bring to these. We also involve our Angel owners. We diversify.

Not sure where I said that - I can't even say for sure how many in our AO Norcal bunch shoot other-than-mags, but I know it is a few. Geez, we even let Steelrat show up and he has a Viking, an Eblade and he wears a jersey. Poser.

Our AO/Norcal threads have never had a hint of mag bias. All are welcome, and all AO'ers that want to play have been included at our gatherings regardless of their gear.

[Steelrat]

Its not the fault of AGD supporters Aegis. Its not your job to make everyone own AGD products. The company should be able to do that on its own. Very few people out here care about mags at all. Just look at that one collecting dust at the Stockton ACE. And I dont see that changing anytime soon, if at all.

Honestly, as nice as it would be to meet Tom Kaye, its not worth the effort it would take to attract him. I'd rather put my energy into making a kick-butt day of play than an event designed to appeal to someone in particular. And Aegis, you kinda look like TK, in an old-man-with-facial-hair kind of way ;) You'll make a great stand-in.

[Aegis]

Uhhh....thanks... I guess...

At least you left out the fat old man part. Did I mention I want to play front next time? I am using too much paint standing aronud in the back with Zman.

[Steelrat]

Et tu, Aegis?

#1 Its poseur, not poser :P

#2 I had a Viking before it was cool to own a Viking. That makes me a trendsetter, and therefore wicked cool.

#3 The jersey is lightweight and ventilated, preventing me from getting all sweaty and smelly, unlike SOME people ;)

#4 Without my hardware, the guys at SCP would just lump all of us in with the tippman rentals :D

[DiRTyBuNNy]

Originally posted by cphilip
No... but notice we never limit ourselves to Mag owners? Like you just did in your comment? We attract "AO members" or even potential AO members no matter what marker they bring to these. We also involve our Angel owners. We diversify.

Actually I think you missed the point of his statement...We do have people who don't shoot mags at our meets. We brought LeatherPants and his gf Shannon to AO all from meeting them at a meet.

But I do have to agree that AGD has in effect forgotten about the West Coast (and I'm not talking about meets..you've already heard my opinion on that). I do feel that if AGD can say that they have done a horrible job of marketing their product in the past I must say that they are non-existant in certain parts of the country. We don't have a super dealer here on the West Coast (and don't even try to bring up Ditto's...Jeff is a great guy..but I'm sorry...I could do more for AGD's image than he can...).

I'm not doing this to whine and cry and I do think it is a testament to people like Rogue Factor who is busting his hump against a sea of cockers and various electros. If you people think you can plan something here in Cali better than we can...go right ahead...I won't complain...

[Steelrat]

Dont worry about Z-man. Hes been much better on the paint since he got the SFL, due to the fact that he kept shooting himself in the leg. Its true. He did it several times, and even had the ref call him out for shooting himself.

[Steelrat]

Dirtybunny, no one up here seems to carry any appealing mags. All I see is classic mags gathering dust on the walls.

[DiRTyBuNNy]

Originally posted by Steelrat
Dirtybunny, no one up here seems to carry any appealing mags. All I see is classic mags gathering dust on the walls.

I don't know if you didn't realize this...but i'm agreeing with you...and why spend $250 on a classic mag that shoots like garbage when you can buy an electro-Spyder for $150 that outshoots it..oh well...

[Eatem Alive]

hey Steel, where do ya'll play? I would love to play with fellow mag owners. We're starting to get a few more at V.T. but not enough for my liking.

[Steelrat]

I knew where you were coming from, I was just agreeing with you :D

[Steelrat]

Eatem, Ive posted a few times on the VT forum, you post there?

We have been playing mostly at SCP, but Frank the Spank just informed me that the compressors are in, so Im going to do everything in my power to have the next AO Norcal day there. I live in Antioch, so I may just shot up there sometime soon to play. I played there once after a 3 man tourney, and I loved the fields.

[cphilip]

Originally posted by DiRTyBuNNy
I'm not doing this to whine and cry and I do think it is a testament to people like Rogue Factor who is busting his hump against a sea of cockers and various electros. If you people think you can plan something here in Cali better than we can...go right ahead...I won't complain...

You don't think we up against the same thing here? You think that's you guys are the only persons busting hump for AGD markers? Against a sea of others? Well then...you apparently not been to a field out here then. Or most of the rest of the country for that matter. California is not a special place in that reguard. Don't kid yourself.

[DiRTyBuNNy]

It looks like you're not understanding the point of my earlier post. I wasn't trying to say that it isn't hard everywhere but that AGD's complete lack of support for the West Coast is the reason why it is so hard for us to gain any momentum out here...you try living near Worr, Dye, WDP-USA, JT, Cobra Paintball and Bob Long and then ask people why they don't shoot mags...

[Eatem Alive]

I've been pimpin' mags at our new field since it opened (actually, since I bought my first in 1990). It seems to be easier to sway the youngin's over to the mag side because they have yet to be brainwashed. Cali is definately cocker, timmy, and with the s.c. ironmen just down the road, trix country too, but were trying. With the winter comin' up, my mechanical marker looks pretty good about now. Steel, yeah, I'm on the V.T. forum, same name. I'm supposed to help Tony set up the compressor this week. the new sup air is pretty sweet.

[Schnitzel]

some may feel that our "less than 20" showing a few meets back is less than substantial, i disagree. considering the relative number of AC-CA'ers compared to all of AO, i think we did a heck of a job gathering the people we did without any serious planning. we didnt even have to invite anybody to get the response we did. all we did was post it up in the meet&greet section. i believe it was minimal planning considering the size of the group that showed up.

we did it again a few weeks ago with even more numbers, and again...with the same strategy. it didnt even require some special offer or discount. the players came because of the commitment they hold for AGD, however small our group is.

[cphilip]

Well no I think you just have a complete wrong perspective of "support" What you term "lack of support" is purely claimed by "Tom Visits". Fact: they have been to California more than they have ever been to South Carolina. You want to look around and your gonna find other States that can claim even more of this so called "lack of support" than that. They don't pronounce that as a lack of support do they? You are equating these things in terms of recent visits to a particular state as "support" not me. That's the point. And I think it's an invalid claim to make. What my point was if you want MORE visits then do the work to get them. If you do not then fine. But don't claim AGD doesn't care about you using that criteria as your measuring stick. Because it's not true nor what we were talking about I don't think. Of should have been talking about that is.

Events for AO are seperate beasts. The author of this thread linked them right off the bat as if they were and assumes some things he should not. And several of you continued to do so. I layed a ground work of the steps it takes to get both but it seems it's not something you want to hear. In fact they are two seperate things. We want you to come out here and be a part of our event. Because you are AO. The online community. And we would all love to come to yours too. But many cannot afford that trip either way. It has nothing to do with so much AGD as much as it has to do with AO in that respect. If we get AGD to attend to then its just gravy. But it's two seperate things really.

[Steelrat]

Events for AO are seperate beasts. The author of this thread linked them right off the bat as if they were and assumes some things he should not.

Aegis and his son, LittlePaintballboy, are two of the biggest AGD fanatics I have met, and deserve a little more respect than that. All he did was ask when the next AGD spin around the sunshine site was going to be. You claim that AO and AGD are two different things, yet the event he was describing was listed on the AGD site. That alone shows a connection.

In order to get some AGD momentum going out here, we are going to need help from AO memeber in Cali AND AGD. The players cant do it on their own, and frankly shouldnt have to. Every bit of effort put out by these people is essentially free advertising for AGD. Wouldn't it be nice to show some appreciation by given 'em a little love?

[DiRTyBuNNy]

Originally posted by cphilip
Well no I think you just have a complete wrong perspective of "support" What you term "lack of support" is purely claimed by "Tom Visits". Fact: they have been to California more than they have ever been to South Carolina. You want to look around and your gonna find other States that can claim even more of this so called "lack of support" than that. They don't pronounce that as a lack of support do they? You are equating these things in terms of recent visits to a particular state as "support" not me. That's the point. And I think it's an invalid claim to make. What my point was if you want MORE visits then do the work to get them. If you do not then fine. But don't claim AGD doesn't care about you using that criteria as your measuring stick. Because it's not true nor what we were talking about I don't think. Of should have been talking about that is.

Events for AO are seperate beasts. The author of this thread linked them right off the bat as if they were and assumes some things he should not. And several of you continued to do so. I layed a ground work of the steps it takes to get both but it seems it's not something you want to hear. In fact they are two seperate things. We want you to come out here and be a part of our event. Because you are AO. The online community. And we would all love to come to yours too. But many cannot afford that trip either way. It has nothing to do with so much AGD as much as it has to do with AO in that respect. If we get AGD to attend to then its just gravy. But it's two seperate things really.

I don't know who you are referring to above but it better not be me because I never have stated that "visits = support"...I will flat out tell you and Tom to his face that he has no chance in California if this AGD's current marketing trend. I could care less about visits and I've said so many times before. Did AGD showup at PSP or even NPPL LA? How about Las Vegas? (and by AGD I mean the company not the man). How can you gain market share in one of the largest markets in the country (California has one of the fifth largest economies in the world) if you never try gain any? People don't shoot mags out here because AGD could care less if they did and WGP, Dye, Bob Long, and WDP are perfectly happy with AGD's (again, the company) total lack of enthusiasm. You can quote me on this..more money is spent on the sport of paintball in California than of all states of the "original 13" combined.. That's my problem with it all. California is the center of the paintball world...hate us or love us..it's the truth..and the fact that AGD the company could care less about it only means that Budd and the rest didn't steal the west coast from Tom...he never had it to begin with...and that's his loss....

[cphilip]

Originally posted by Steelrat


Aegis and his son, LittlePaintballboy, are two of the biggest AGD fanatics I have met, and deserve a little more respect than that. All he did was ask when the next AGD spin around the sunshine site was going to be. You claim that AO and AGD are two different things, yet the event he was describing was listed on the AGD site. That alone shows a connection.

In order to get some AGD momentum going out here, we are going to need help from AO memeber in Cali AND AGD. The players cant do it on their own, and frankly shouldnt have to. Every bit of effort put out by these people is essentially free advertising for AGD. Wouldn't it be nice to show some appreciation by given 'em a little love?

I am not showing him any disrespect. In fact I detailed what it takes to make it bigger. And offered to help. But it is indeed not a linked thing. Trust me. I know.

You seem to think that AGD somehow supports me in this event. Your wrong. I do it out of my own pocket. And recieve no profit. Last year I ate $250 of the cost out of my own pocket. I work for the State of SC not AGD. They do not financialy support this event at all. So maybe you should rethink where I am coming from when you start pointing out who are big supporters of AGD and all....

[cphilip]

Originally posted by DiRTyBuNNy


I don't know who you are referring to above but it better not be me because I never have stated that "visits = support"...


Naw looking back I guess it wasn't you. It was sort of a late retort to steelrat I think. He seems to be of the opinion that its a symptom or something. At least thats the way I took his comments.

[Blennidae]

Wow, Aegis asked a simple question and it got kinda ugly.

Everyone has valid points. Looking at the turnouts for the various NorCal AO days, it has been mainly a group of friends getting together. That sort of thing is not going to bring AGD out.

On the flip side of that, if we could say "Meet Tom Kaye" the turnout might be greater. The casual AO member could care less about meeting me, but a chance to meet "the MAN" thats another story.

I'm hoping the SoCal vs. NorCal AO day goes over big. It would be nice to put some faces with the names I have been reading these past couple of years. It would be nice to have an offical AGD presence there, but if not, I wont lose any sleep. There are actually a couple of AO members I'd rather meet face to face than Tom himself.

I do agree with cphilip that to get Tom out here, we have to prove we can pull off a big AO day on our own. Think about how many people can't make one of the local ones based on their job or some other factor in their personal life on a given day. Can you honestly expect someone arrange for all the travel expenses when even the locals can't always make it?

[RoadDawg]

I'm just gonna chime in on the fact AGD (company) hasn't made much of an effort out this way. If they have made an effort it has been so minimal I didn't notice. My complaint is this. If say WGP or WDP had boards you could flash I could go to any shop out here and they'd be able to do it. Now for my Emag I have to send it either to Oregon or Illinois. As far as our past turnouts it's not only mag players. We have several Matrixes, cockers, spyders on top of the mags. Everytime I go into one of the local shops I get asked if my breed is died yet. I know cali isn't the only place not getting love for example I lived in Utah and I was one of maybe 5 or 6 of the state. I owned 2 of them. They never even see tournies there. My point though is we the people of California just wanna know are we gonna fight this battle alone or is AGD gonna help? If not why should we support a company that doesn't support us? I'll tell you why we support AGD and that is because we love their products. We love the durability. I've seen RogueFactor at more events then I've seen AGD or Ditto's (jeff I think). Which tells me that the only one that really pushes mags around here are the owners and Rogue and he's part of the owners.

Back to the original question. When is AGD planning on swinging through the sunshine state again?

[Aegis]

Can't we all just get along? What this thread was about..


Originally posted by Aegis
Us left coasters feel left out with all this talk about the SE AO day. Just happened to see the airgun.com/news today while making and order, and it referred to TK's Cali trip from March 02. Time for another spin around the sunshine state!

Did anyone read the article that I referred to? Here it is:

TOM KAYE DOES CALIFORNIA TOUR!!!
March 2002
Tom will be going to the LA NPPL in March. Nothing is set in stone yet, but he will probably do a few "meet and greets" in the LA area including Dittos and then go up to Sacramento for an AGD day at Predator Marketing. He's also figuring on a donut orgy at the NPPL tourney!
To have input into the planning, visit the Automags Online Forum.

Then This popped up:

"Events for AO are seperate beasts. The author of this thread linked them right off the bat as if they were and assumes some things he should not"

Don't quite get this last statement, but Hey, looky there, AO is the forum to discuss AGD plans according to AGD. Was that the point, or am I still missing something?

If anything I posted can be interpreted to be expecting TK to show up an a AO/Norcal day, I can't see it. How did my question get interpreted to mean that TK should drop everything and fly to east egypt to hang out with this scruffy bunch? The reference was clear, it was about an AGD trip scheduled arount a major event and an AGD day , and would that be repeated.

If TK or an AGD crew have plans to be out here for a major event, it would be nice to know. That's all. You guys need to relax.

[hitech]

Hey, how are you doing?


Originally posted by Blennidae
On the flip side of that, if we could say "Meet Tom Kaye" the turnout might be greater. The casual AO member could care less about meeting me, but a chance to meet "the MAN" that's another story.

I don't know. When he showed up in Sac. I don't remember very many people making it. I hung out with Tom most of the day and don't remember very many people from AO showing up. However, that was a long time ago in a land not so far away... ;)



Originally posted by Blennidae
I'm hoping the SoCal vs. NorCal AO day goes over big.

So do I. However, with the baby on the way there is no way I can do much to help plan it. Hopefully those pushing it will be successful.


Originally posted by Blennidae
Think about how many people can't make one of the local ones based on their job or some other factor in their personal life on a given day. Can you honestly expect someone arrange for all the travel expenses when even the locals can't always make it?

That is a very good point. Setting the date in stone WAY in advance helps people like me plan for it. Not because I decide I'm going that far in advance, but because I can avoid planning anything else for that date. It worked for me for SE AO Day II. I didn't commit to going until about a month prior and it was a hard decision. The deciding factor was that I knew it would be a big event. With lots of AO members that I have never met. The bottom line is that it is a lot of work to plan a successful big event. Ask anyone who has done it before. ;)

[RoadDawg]

Ya I actually attended the NPPL meet when he was there. It was great stuff, learned more and more about mags and even got to mess around with an Xmag. Now that was almost 2 years ago mind you and he was here last year in the SoCal region at a scenario game (scenario's aren't quite appealing yet) and a store appearance but I was out of town for family reasons. I didn't know about the Sacramento deal but that's a 8+ hour drive from here so not affected.

[hitech]

Originally posted by Aegis
That's all.

Feeling like your thread got hijacked? ;)

[cphilip]

Originally posted by Aegis
Can't we all just get along? What this thread was about..



Did anyone read the article that I referred to? Here it is:

TOM KAYE DOES CALIFORNIA TOUR!!!
March 2002
Tom will be going to the LA NPPL in March. Nothing is set in stone yet, but he will probably do a few "meet and greets" in the LA area including Dittos and then go up to Sacramento for an AGD day at Predator Marketing. He's also figuring on a donut orgy at the NPPL tourney!
To have input into the planning, visit the Automags Online Forum.

Then This popped up:

"Events for AO are seperate beasts. The author of this thread linked them right off the bat as if they were and assumes some things he should not"

Don't quite get this last statement, but Hey, looky there, AO is the forum to discuss AGD plans according to AGD. Was that the point, or am I still missing something?

If anything I posted can be interpreted to be expecting TK to show up an a AO/Norcal day, I can't see it. How did my question get interpreted to mean that TK should drop everything and fly to east egypt to hang out with this scruffy bunch? The reference was clear, it was about an AGD trip scheduled arount a major event and an AGD day , and would that be repeated.

If TK or an AGD crew have plans to be out here for a major event, it would be nice to know. That's all. You guys need to relax.

OH I hear ya Brother! But in that case that you cite I have to point out he was going to a major tourney. NOT an AO day! Thats my point there on that but I was not thinking you felt he should go to every one. Some others sort of intimated that, not you. And he does not because they are seperate from where he will be anyway. AO people put on AO events. AGD announces where they going. Two seperate things MOST of the time. We do not always have direct supervision and involvment with AGD in doing them. Sometimes they come, sometimes they don't. So I stand by what I was saying there. I was attempting to help you figure out how to get him to come to an AO one. If it's a Major tournament around it then I would expect it to be MUCH easier! I was just trying to help is all. Somehow it got lost in the whole shuffle! :(

[cphilip]

Originally posted by Blennidae
Wow, Aegis asked a simple question and it got kinda ugly.

Everyone has valid points. Looking at the turnouts for the various NorCal AO days, it has been mainly a group of friends getting together. That sort of thing is not going to bring AGD out.

On the flip side of that, if we could say "Meet Tom Kaye" the turnout might be greater. The casual AO member could care less about meeting me, but a chance to meet "the MAN" thats another story.

I'm hoping the SoCal vs. NorCal AO day goes over big. It would be nice to put some faces with the names I have been reading these past couple of years. It would be nice to have an offical AGD presence there, but if not, I wont lose any sleep. There are actually a couple of AO members I'd rather meet face to face than Tom himself.

I do agree with cphilip that to get Tom out here, we have to prove we can pull off a big AO day on our own. Think about how many people can't make one of the local ones based on their job or some other factor in their personal life on a given day. Can you honestly expect someone arrange for all the travel expenses when even the locals can't always make it?


And so far I have never been able to say Tom was coming until late in the planning of it. Long after it was unstoppable in the planning stage. But thats the risk I take. It would be better to know way in advance. But all I can do there is make sure its planned for a day he COULD come if he chose too. Thats key.

And what I was trying to do here was let you all know how you do that to make it possible for it to happen. But seems it was taken as critiism rather than helpfull tips. Not my intention at all. If It sounded that way I appologize.

[RoadDawg]

Hey phil believe it or not I took it as tips. Most are just showing that we don't have much of a turnout because AGD (the company) hasn't put there best foot forward out here. We have maybe 30+ here in SoCal. Considering we live in a area that is HIGHLY populated in the millions and only 30-40 show up shows that AGD isn't hitting the masses out this way. I know people that want mags out this way but want to buy them at a store so they know they'll get support. I do what I can and refer them to Rogue or online (rogue mainly) but they want to see it before they buy it and know they'll be able to get a parts kit without ordering it online or waiting a couple days etc. Most end up going with WGP due to the fact they at least have representation at all the stores and at the tournies.

[cphilip]

Well I am glad someone did. I might just not have phrased it well and tried to address too many people back in each reply. It was very late last night when that was going on.

Getting stores to carry it? Sheesh. That a hard one. I not certain there is a decent solution I know there. Until the popularity increases and people are asking enough and not settiling for wha the store stocks thats going to always be a problem That indeed IS an AGD issue they have to deal with. And without the independents like Rouge out there then there would be nothing. I think Paintballdaddy does carry stuff in his store but thats not covering much of a big state is it? One of the biggest things I see is that people buy something because its in stock. And so they do not buy mags due to that issue. It is a real stumbling block thats for sure. But I am not really smart enough to know the solution.

[Steelrat]

Aegis, you were better off as a lurker ;)

Cphil, in all seriousness, I didnt infer visits=support. The thread diverted into a discussion of AGD support in the CA as a whole, and thats what I was addressing. It would be nice to have Tom out here, but that isnt going to fix the situation. It would just be nice for all the die-hard AGD fans out here :)

[RoadDawg]

Well I think they'd sell more if it wasn't just stock classic, or minimags. I asked a local store if I could put my ULE Emag on the wall for a couple days to see if there would be any interests but they give me the excuse of well we had a classic but it didn't sell type of thing. So I think if say a ULE RTP was up on the wall more people would be interested but then they may not. It's a risk but I do know that people complained about the weight and well that is one light marker so who knows. I do a little marketing for my work but I'm told where everything goes and I just put it there so I don't think I have answers as well. Paintballdaddy does have a shop but it's 2+ hours outside of Los Angeles so I've never been there because I have no need. Rogue who is 30 min away usually has anything I need so I go to him. Considering gas is up to 1.70 around me 2+ hour drive can really hurt the pocket book when you wanna check out a new item. It's tough to even find a mag barrel in my area so that's one reason why I made sure to go ULE body.

[cphilip]

Originally posted by Steelrat
Aegis, you were better off as a lurker ;)

Cphil, in all seriousness, I didnt infer visits=support. The thread diverted into a discussion of AGD support in the CA as a whole, and thats what I was addressing. It would be nice to have Tom out here, but that isnt going to fix the situation. It would just be nice for all the die-hard AGD fans out here :)

OK... I got ya.

Yea a new line of ULE stuff on the wall is gotta be the ticket. But its gotta be on the wall as you point out. Most of our first time Marker buyers are impatient and want it now! But thats not really too hard to understand really. I am kinda that way myself

[danheneise]

hey, at least us socal'ers have roguefactor near by, so we can get purdy stuff sooner than easterners ;)

[Steelrat]

Yeah, well us Norcal'ers have the one and only Z-man, who eats sears like they were pretzels, and who has actually broken a spring while sweetspo..er, playing.

[Muzikman]

Back about a year and a half or two years ago Tom was in CA. He went to a store in the Sacramento area (plus a few other places) and I think the store drew a "few" people. I was looking for the thread, but the quick search only found the origninal thread where Tom said he was coming. Now, this thread generated a whole two pages over a 4 month time. To me it didn't seem that many people were excited about this trip.

Not to make excuses, but if Tom or AGD does make an effort to show up, I think members need to show up too, maybe? ;)

[DiRTyBuNNy]

Yes..and I'm not going to drive from San Diego to Sacramento just to see Tom...that's over 500 miles for just a shop tour..would you drive from Pittsburgh to Columbia, SC just to see Tom walk around the shop and shoot the bull with people?

I wasn't part of the planning nor did anyone really consult the people that live out here to see where the best place to visit would be for all of us...i'd rather just have AGD (the company) at least come out to the NPPL or PSP Events out here on the West Coast (CA or Las Vegas)...

[hitech]

When Tom came up to Sac. he went to the "local" field on Sunday and played. He brought some product to give away. Almost no one showed up. Probably less than ten. I was there and hung out with Tom most of the day. It wasn't a good showing. Tom put a good spin on the event anyway. Here is the thread. (http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=29468) In there Tom listed five people who showed up at the field to play. LA did have a good showing at the tournament.

[Muzikman]

Originally posted by DiRTyBuNNy
Yes..and I'm not going to drive from San Diego to Sacramento just to see Tom...that's over 500 miles for just a shop tour..would you drive from Pittsburgh to Columbia, SC just to see Tom walk around the shop and shoot the bull with people?

I wasn't part of the planning nor did anyone really consult the people that live out here to see where the best place to visit would be for all of us...i'd rather just have AGD (the company) at least come out to the NPPL or PSP Events out here on the West Coast (CA or Las Vegas)...


Hmm...let's see...I am leaving for Clemson, SC in about 26 hours, so yes, I would travel that far:)

[Bucky]

whoa, im a lil late. but tom, when did you stop in sacramento?

[hitech]

There is a link in my previous post that details his trip.

[Blennidae]

I remember actually planning on going up to Sac when Tom was up there. I also remember my car decided to stop running and me having to work on it on that Saturday. Meeting Tom would have been nice, but needing transportation for work was more important.

I have a new car now, so I'm ready for the next time...;)

[tony3]

Well, I can't really complain about Tom not showing his lack of support for the midwest:cool:

[Bucky]

damnit. i remember the exact day tom was in sacramento now. i remember having to work that day and having some of my friends say what guns he brought (think it was like an sfl? not sure though)

oh, btw, tom. you should see how well that Oh keeps his x-mag. its terrible. makes me cringe just thinking about how dirty it is.

[Aegis]

OK, group hug everybody. I recognize that this post touched a nerve and seemed to go off on a tangent. Looks like separate points of view are being recognized as legit, which is nice to see.

Sounds like the Norcal folks kinda blew the last chance - was there an active Norcal bunch before our motley crew got together?

And Steelrat, I don't think you are a poseur ( a person who pretends to be what he or she is not : an affected or insincere person)

You, sir, are a POSER (a person who poses)

http://home.comcast.net/~bmillin/poser.jpg

[Miscue]

Maybe within a year I can hit up the CA events... not that you guys would care. :p But if so, I'll see if I can flash boards or something.

[Eatem Alive]

Well, in my opinion, any gathering of any amount of AO members/ Mag owners would be great. It would be nice to be able to talk to another person (other than Spank) about Mags. If it were anywhere on the west coast, I would make an effort to be there.

[Aegis]

Check the meet-and-greet section, the current thread is WAP 11/22 but there are plenty of AO/Norcal threads that would give you an idea of what you might be in for.

[DiRTyBuNNy]

Originally posted by Miscue
Maybe within a year I can hit up the CA events... not that you guys would care. :p But if so, I'll see if I can flash boards or something.

Hey..SoCal would love to have you come out...(btw, I was just in Vegas last weekend...still no decent paintball stores)..

[Bad_Knees]

Q,

Are you flashing the "Q" software? Please PM me...Thanks!

BK

[DiRTyBuNNy]

Q needs to come out west and come play with AO SoCal...just need to find someone he can crash with..