X-Mags not taking 3.2...

[pito189]

So at the AO day, my X-Mag would not take 3.2 because of a noisy HES. It caused the gun to go FA everytime you pulled the trigger.

Can somebody explain to me fully what this means, and how much it is going to cost me to get corrected?

[BlackVCG]

Make sure your battery is fully charged and the shbf is set above 20ms.

I'm pretty sure a capacitor on the power lead going to the board would clean up the noise in the wires, but I haven't tried it yet or come across a gun that wouldn't work with 3.2, for that matter.

[personman]

I dunno but that shark attack xmag must have had a 'noisy' HES because It was going full auto.. was I the only one who turned that thing on and pulled the trigger? :p

[Dayspring]

See, mine was weird. Pito was there when I gassed up my Xmag with 3.2 at the field. Pulled/held the trigger and it was full auto, from 4-100. But for some reason, it decided to knock that off. I had it on 4ms all day and it ripped, no bounce, nothing but consistent streams of paint.

Just ask Albinonewt. :D

[AGD]

Some boards seem to have problems but we are not sure what it is. We are looking into it.

AGD

[FreakBaller12]

the man has spoken!

[Sir_Brass]

heh heh, someone need an Electrical engineer armed with capacitors, solder, soldering iron, and an oscilloscope and layout sheets? :D :p

[cledford]

Hoover flashed mine and it has mad bounce without air - I ran the SHBF up to 100 and it would still fire indefinitely when the trigger was depressed just right. With air it settled down a lot, but with a little bit of practice but I could rip 2 round bursts (nothing more) pretty easily with the SHBF set to 20ms in E mode.

-Calvin

[rehme]

my emag must be weird or something i have my shbf at 4ms and my bps at 20 and i dont have bounce or burst at all. but it has a very consistant stream coming out of it.

[felony]

Same thing with mine..

No matter what the buffer is set at.. still mad bounce if held just right..

zero control, like trying to stop a beamer in the snow :0

yikes

fun to shoot, but is it legal ?

dan

[Potatoboy]

Originally posted by BlackVCG
Make sure your battery is fully charged and the shbf is set above 20ms.

I'm pretty sure a capacitor on the power lead going to the board would clean up the noise in the wires, but I haven't tried it yet or come across a gun that wouldn't work with 3.2, for that matter.

I personally flashed about 6 at SEAO with no luck, good batteries checked under load, and SHBF at 100.

[Sir_Brass]

what kind of PLD is the emag and xmag taking? Correct me if I'm wrong, but from the sound of it (being able to reprogram after installing into the board), it sounds like a cypress semiconductor PLD was used. Those things can be REALLY finiky with code. Maybe AGD's engineers should re-examine the VHD code used and try and improve it a little bit.


From my experience in using a 22v10 in microprocessor lab, even if the code is logicall and syntactically correct, the code still might not work all the time. You have to be REALLY anal about coding the things down to a T. Cypress makes good chips (just look at the PSoC family of microcontrollers: dynamic built-in peripheral capability! :eek: ), it's just that the pld's are so tempermental sometimes.

[madmatt151]

Uhh I thought I was smart until I read this last post. I think I will go back to school now.

[Miscue]

Eh, my theory on it based from observation is: While the solenoid is pulling, it robs everything of power. The HES needs to be powered sufficiently, otherwise it will appear to be off by the board. The board picks this up, thinks the trigger is released, and then when power comes back up and the trigger is still held... picks it up as a new pull. Why on some, and not others... dunno.

Sir_Brass: It's on a 90S2313 Atmel on a custom PCB. There is nothing wrong with the code as far as this problem goes.

<B>Edit: I'll double-check the code. I just thought of a possible issue.

[Steelrat]

Okay, so what is the solution?

[Miscue]

Originally posted by Steelrat
Okay, so what is the solution?

A capacitor, a fix to whatever the source of the problem is, or a debounce time that exceeds the solenoid dwell time I believe... if my theory is correct - I don't know. What would be nice is if someone verified what the problem is... I don't have the tools to do it.

My board works like a champ at 1ms debounce... it's strange that others have such problems.

[felony]

Originally posted by Steelrat
Okay, so what is the solution?

the million dollar question...

[Miscue]

Originally posted by Potatoboy


I personally flashed about 6 at SEAO with no luck, good batteries checked under load, and SHBF at 100.

No kidding eh? 100?

How about my stuff? DataPimp said mine went in like a champ... hurm.

[felony]

i have also shot mine at 100ms on SHBF.. still got the same effect as @ 4ms..


Little bit confused..

dan

[Steelrat]

This is the kind of thing that might discourage a person from getting an xmag, unless its solved quickly. Would this be something that would be fixed free of charge, if a solution is found?

[Miscue]

Originally posted by Steelrat
This is the kind of thing that might discourage a person from getting an xmag, unless its solved quickly. Would this be something that would be fixed free of charge, if a solution is found?

Rumor has is that my code is behaving better... and so far it seems to be running like a champ. :p

I have no way to verify this, beyond heresay... but it makes me feel good. Hehe. What would be nice is if someone with a 'noisy' board had mine put on for comparison... if it works, there's your fix - obviously an oversight in 3.2 code. If same behavior, then it's same hardware issue.

[Steelrat]

I hope it works. Its just that 3.2 is supposed to be the software that transforms the Xmag, and yet there is a chance it will nuke your board. Thats a crappy choice to have to make.

[MantisMag]

well there's no damage done. and you can always flash it back right?

[pito189]

Originally posted by Steelrat
I hope it works. Its just that 3.2 is supposed to be the software that transforms the Xmag, and yet there is a chance it will nuke your board. Thats a crappy choice to have to make.

No it didn't "nuke" my board, Tater found that it didn't work, and just flashed me back to 2.4.

Hopefully this problem will get worked out. :)

[Sir_Brass]

Originally posted by Miscue
Edit: I'll double-check the code. I just thought of a possible issue.

Mission accomplished :D. Glad I could help by saying SOMETHING that made you stumble across the problem :).

[cgrieves]

I had the "noisy" HES symptoms where the gun would fire fully auto. For me the solution was an easy one- I simply reversed the HE sensor (carefully bending the wires the other way) and reversed the trigger magnet. That completely solved it- easy to do so probably worth a try.

It seems like the problem could be inconsistent hysteresis with some sensors.

[cledford]

Originally posted by felony

zero control, like trying to stop a beamer in the snow :0


HA-HA!!!! Dan, this is a classic quote! I hate ours, it is the most impratical car in the world - especially during the winter!

-Calvin

[cledford]

Originally posted by Miscue


Rumor has is that my code is behaving better... and so far it seems to be running like a champ. :p

I have no way to verify this, beyond heresay... but it makes me feel good. Hehe. What would be nice is if someone with a 'noisy' board had mine put on for comparison... if it works, there's your fix - obviously an oversight in 3.2 code. If same behavior, then it's same hardware issue.

Hoover can do mine - I can drop by the shop on Friday if you both are cool with it. He can see the continuous bounce (without air) that is the same from 4 to 100ms. I then can show him the constant double tapping at 20ms with air and paint. We can flash it and try it out.

-Calvin

[felony]

I liked that quote too..

But anyway, I have never shot an emag beefore, so i do not know how they are supposed to feel. w/o air the trigger feels fine, but when I gas it up, it just seems to bounce all over town...

LMK if you guys get a good solution to this..

thanks
dan

[JEDI]

What is the primary function for the v3.2? Or in other words what was it made to do/fix? Is more bounce an inherant side effect that was known from the begining? I'm completely outta the loop so fill me in (with as little "Day-babble" as possable).;)

Aside from these odd occurances, is it doing what its supposed to?

[RRfireblade]

Originally posted by JEDI
What is the primary function for the v3.2? Or in other words what was it made to do/fix? Is more bounce an inherant side effect that was known from the begining? I'm completely outta the loop so fill me in (with as little "Day-babble" as possable).;)

Aside from these odd occurances, is it doing what its supposed to?

Mine's working perfectly since day 1.I also had 3.0 which seemed to work properly as well.

The primary benifit of 3.2 is adding shot queing which allows you to get "credit" for each trigger pull even though you may have pulled faster than the marker could respond.It's the primary reason WAS boarded guns are known for being so fast and is becoming the standard in the industry.

This does lend it self to more "bounce" which is why there is a "buffer" control to hopefully eliminate it.


3.2 also adds a trigger test mode which I find very usefull.It tells you exactly when the HES is tripping during the trigger pull.

Jay.

[JEDI]

S0 3.2 puts AGD guns in the same position of a lot of other guns at this point then. Yes, the board allows for a more continuous high rate of fire, but it comes at the price of bounce.

[RRfireblade]

Possibly.

There are people who have had the noisy HES problem prior to 3.2,I just think 3.2 magnifies that problem.As I said,I have had no problem adjusting out any bounce on mine.

I'm not sure if AGD has ever fully understood the noisy HES problems or had a definite fix for it as of yet.

Jay.

[Miscue]

Originally posted by cledford


Hoover can do mine - I can drop by the shop on Friday if you both are cool with it. He can see the continuous bounce (without air) that is the same from 4 to 100ms. I then can show him the constant double tapping at 20ms with air and paint. We can flash it and try it out.

-Calvin

Cool, go for it... and let me know the comparison.

[G-Rock]

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