AGD SP Patent

[electriceel125]

I had a thought which may have already been addressed, but i wondered if AGD could patent the single tube body designe and in turn sue SP for infringing or is it to late for something like that?

[LaW]

First of all spell AGD correctly....

also some of you people are going way overboard on this whole smart parts thing. They went after one company and signed a few things with a couple other. I have not seen them going after anyone else.


to answer your original question .... NO

[Cryer]

In either case, thats not how AGD plays.
Thats like a little kid hiding his mommie's car keys when he doesnt get his way...


They arent out for revenge...


(are you, Tom?:confused: ):p

[edweird]

If Tk was out for revenge... im sure he would make it much more devious...

and yeah like Cryer said... not how AGD plays.

[hAppy]

or so you'd think...

SP wants to play hardball, so sooner or later, they ll be dead

[WARPED1]

Originally posted by LaW
First of all spell AGD correctly....

also some of you people are going way overboard on this whole smart parts thing. They went after one company and signed a few things with a couple other. I have not seen them going after anyone else.


to answer your original question .... NO What he said......................

[cphilip]

I expect, and many others as well expect, SP will come after everyone eventualy. From largest to smallest. If they do not then they forefit there argument and their stance on this. Not to say that they can make "sweetheart deals" if they chose with people along the way. But still they will have to follow through all the way now. With everyone.

I expect Tom will enforce any patents he has wether he wants to or not to make a living in this new paintball world we are entering.

Thats the new playing field. Not of his chosing but it's the reality of it.

[sneakyhacker420]

if AGD patents the single tube design, say goodbye to matrices, 03 shockers, tippmanns, titans or w/e they are and a few others

[LaW]

Originally posted by sneakyhacker420
if AGD patents the single tube design, say goodbye to matrices, 03 shockers, tippmanns, titans or w/e they are and a few others

You are overlooking the fact that AGD cannot patent a design that was developed too long ago. You only have so much time to file a patent

[LaW]

Originally posted by cphilip
I expect, and many others as well expect, SP will come after everyone eventualy. From largest to smallest. If they do not then they forefit there argument and their stance on this. Not to say that they can make "sweetheart deals" if they chose with people along the way. But still they will have to follow through all the way now. With everyone.

I expect Tom will enforce any patents he has wether he wants to or not to make a living in this new paintball world we are entering.

Thats the new playing field. Not of his chosing but it's the reality of it.



Exactly, in my opinion this can be good or bad for paintball. I just see it as paintball as an industry is just growing big. We are so used to the industry being one way, a company like smart parts decides to push it another way and I guess its fine that people get upset with tha

[Tunaman]

I personally would like to see Tom enforce every patent he owns. He designed it, prototyped it, made it, and sold it. He deserves his slice of the pie just like everyone else. If they want to play hard ball, they better get ready to start swinging.:o

[50 cal]

Waaaay too many people are making a big fuss over this SP crapola. So what if they win, what will they do, make you turn your brand new Frazimatic paintslinger in to them? NOT!
Let SP be. It's no worse than other apintball companies have done to screw other companies. They are all still around and we are still playing.

[cphilip]

I give ya a good reason... because eventualy you sqeeze enough people out for one reason or another you end up with no competition. And with that gone you get what they want you to have at the price they want you to pay.

Second reason. If you dissillusion the visonary "tinkerers" from developing things by concern what they develop might in some small way be challenged and never appliedd they just say the heck with this business and go into something rewarding and care free rather than develop things that will be marketable at some point.

I look at this as like someone patenting "the bullet" and then every Firearms Manufacturer now having to cow tow to the owner of the patent of "the bullet". Why? Its a basic concept well entrenched since the early AD! Using electrons to fire off or trigger something to happen is so rudimentary it should never be patented just because you apply it to Paintball. And should never be allowed to bully other companies into compliance just because they cannot afford to fight it. It is indeed a travesy of justice. And it should be delt with FEDERALY. Not by the small companies being bullied into complinace. It HAS VERY LITTLE TO DO WITH IF IT'S GOOD OR BAD FOR PAINTBALL! It has everything to do with patent laws and how rediculous it is to allow someone to alter an old patent to apply it to something like Paintball. Or any other industry for that matter. Its not even theirs to APPLY! It is totaly wrong and totally in error of all that is right in business and patent law! Thats the issue. I could care less who is doing it. It's bad for Business as a precident in EVERY business. Its a travesty of justice and fair trade in my opinion. I have no ill will twords SP. I liked thier products. But I am against injustice. And I am against what I see as improper application of patent laws.

I could be wrong but thats how I see it.

I feel better now.

[p8ntball1016]

Originally posted by edweird
If Tk was out for revenge... im sure he would make it much more devious...

and yeah like Cryer said... not how AGD plays. agd is more secretive. tom kaye would have a black ops elf force waiting in loyalhanna, pa awaiting his explicit orders. hey, these elves are choking me!

[WARPED1]

What makes me laugh, is when anti SP zombies say " SP are so communist like the Nazis!"
The Nazi's were facists:rolleyes: ..........

[electriceel125]

Well first off sorry about the mistake on spelling i was in a hurry. I dont know how long you have to patent a product that is why i was wondering about the body design. Im not even shure that AGD made the single tube body first. I just wondered if it is possible for them to get the patent. Furthermore i believe cphillip has a good point that they will come after everone no matter size because of their stance on the matter in court. No they cannot take my paintsliger away but they can make you pay more for your new super paintslinger. I believe AGD should not go after SP for revenge because that will only damge the sport further, I just think they should consider all options.

[WARPED1]

Explain to me how the game was damaged? Did marker prices go up? No.
If you don't like it, play mech only or pump or stock and stop all this pointless *****ing.

Stop challenging the filter - cphilip

[electriceel125]

The game has not been damaged yet but were only worried about the future and i didnt say the prices have gone up i am sayin they can and will if companies are charged royalty money to make an electro marker. I only play mech because I dont want the hassel of messing up something i cannot fix myself. All of this talking is pointless. It is only to express a persons views which non of use really benift from except for a broader view of the world were living in. Chill with the flaming warp man if you dont like what we have to say hit the x at the top right of your window then all these pointless words go away

[Spartan X]

Originally posted by WARPED1
Explain to me how the game was damaged? Did marker prices go up? No.
If you don't like it, play mech only or pump or stock and stop all this pointless *****ing.

He should re-word that. Prises have not gone up YET. But you guys have to understand that SP has the abbility to go after very major PB company out their. Even if they desided not to do it, the fact remains that they have the patent, even if it is for some kind of leverage to get their way it's wrong. You all should know how PB patents had been delt with in the past. Tippmann made the pin valve, they wanted every one to use it so they did not patent it. AGD make HPA, they did not patent it. Glen palmer invented the workings of the autococker first(kind of), he did not patent it.

Now one thing I do not understand is why not just patent it and let every one use it for free?

[GT]

Originally posted by WARPED1
Explain to me how the game was damaged? Did marker prices go up? No.
If you don't like it, play mech only or pump or stock and stop all this pointless *****ing.

Warped,
Please learn how to see past your own nose, or SP stamped barrel.

If any of the current and past "red flags" have confused you please free yourself from these SP topics. Its not a matter of "if" anymore rather "when". I think phil hit this right on the head, this will kill the visionaries.... which we will see, actually wont see, a decress in otherwise profitable and viable products.

Take my opinion for what it is, just some dude on the 'net that may ot may not know what is going on.

[LaW]

I think some of you are a little overconfident in how far smart parts can/will actually get with all this. I dont think its going to change the industry drastically and actually in my opinion, a positive step in the future for the paintball industry

[Methylphenidate]

what positive step is that?????
if you dont mind me asking

[cphilip]

Originally posted by LaW
I think some of you are a little overconfident in how far smart parts can/will actually get with all this. I dont think its going to change the industry drastically and actually in my opinion, a positive step in the future for the paintball industry

Well... Heh... I see no possible Positive out of it. I would like to hear an argument of what might be positive about this. So far all I see is statements and not one theory of how it could be applied to a positive end. I see no positive in patents being given for application of existing technology to a paintball product (or any other product for that matter) making someone in control of that application in a particular field who didn't even develop it in the first place. Thats my issue with it.

Wether or not it damages or enhances anything... I see no positive in unfairly rewarding someone with the craftiest lawyers and trickiest application for patents. In any business.

Now to address you WARPED1, You know we allow you to state your opinion. But you know what I been watching your "opinion" for a while now. And as of yet its very hollow. It consists of nothing more than blind faithfull protestations against anyone that sees anything wrong with this whole thing. It states no facts and no arguments. Its more or a hatefull protestation and attempt to cower people away from expressing their views. It has no meat to it. It has no logical argument at all. Its become a waste of my time to even read it. Either put up or shut up. Now Law starts to at least make his case of what he feels. I respect that. You however have never made anything but a diatribe of hatefull crap without ANY resonable arguments put forth. So really if you have nothing more to add than what I see up above then you might start thinking about shutting up. Because cursing and protesting that your right without backing it up ain't gonna get you anywhere. Plus cursing is against the rules. And as we always do on AO.. we say "Back it up dude".

[thei3ug]

Originally posted by WARPED1
What makes me laugh, is when anti SP zombies say " SP are so communist like the Nazis!"
The Nazi's were facists:rolleyes: ..........

Though i see your point, the nazis and communists had more in common than say, the nazis and the republican party. actually, the democrats resemble national socialism better...
(doh, i gave it away. silly me and my controlled economies).

secondly, how can AGD patent an idea that wasn't even theirs?

Anyone remember, oh... NELSON DESIGNS?

or possibly the tippmann SMG?

this was kind of a waste of post. let alone patent laws mentioned above.

[alkafluence]

Originally posted by LaW


You are overlooking the fact that AGD cannot patent a design that was developed too long ago. You only have so much time to file a patent

In the U.S. you have roughly a year (IIRC) from the inception of the said development. Elsewhere, particularly the E.U., the time is MUCH less.


Originally posted by sneakyhacker420
if AGD patents the single tube design, say goodbye to matrices, 03 shockers, tippmanns, titans or w/e they are and a few others

This is a common fallacy in believing that an outcome is all or nothing. Even in a theoretical sense that there was a patent on a single-tube design, it is highly likely that licenses would be granted to permit the creation of those markers.

[Toxic Dave]

Matrix's and shockers have 3 tubes.

Also nelson based markers beat them to the use.

dave

[logamus]

all the smart part talk gives me tired head.

[LaW]

Originally posted by cphilip


Well... Heh... I see no possible Positive out of it. I would like to hear an argument of what might be positive about this. So far all I see is statements and not one theory of how it could be applied to a positive end. I see no positive in patents being given for application of existing technology to a paintball product (or any other product for that matter) making someone in control of that application in a particular field who didn't even develop it in the first place. Thats my issue with it.

Wether or not it damages or enhances anything... I see no positive in unfairly rewarding someone with the craftiest lawyers and trickiest application for patents. In any business.


If the worst possible outcome comes of this then I will retract my opinion. However I guess I am not looking at the patent part of it much when I make that comment. I will be back later and I will post why I think its positive.

[cphilip]

Originally posted by LaW


If the worst possible outcome comes of this then I will retract my opinion. However I guess I am not looking at the patent part of it much when I make that comment. I will be back later and I will post why I think its positive.

Fair enough Law. A logical position at this point I should think. I agree with that. And I would have to say at this point nothing has happened either positive or negative that we can attest too. I guess its speculation about what the end result will be.

Yea well... I keep going back to the patent in my thoughts. Thats the root of it all to me.

[LaW]

Originally posted by cphilip


Fair enough Law. A logical position at this point I should think. I agree with that. And I would have to say at this point nothing has happened either positive or negative that we can attest too. I guess its speculation about what the end result will be.

Yea well... I keep going back to the patent in my thoughts. Thats the root of it all to me.


Speculation is what is causing this hatred for SP and at this point I really dont think its necessary but what to do about that. As for the patent I think it is a horrible thing as well and completely am against it. I also believe that they wont get as far with it as people are led to believe.

Almost all of us are not 100% informed on this whole matter and you will find lots of people that just chose a side without even looking into it, forming the opinion for themselves and its just kind of sick to see.

Where I think it is positive for the growth of the industry is when I look at smart parts and how they are getting there hands into other companies, much like how BE got to viewloader and stuff like that. Under the assumption smart parts doesnt do what people fear they will ultimately accomplish with this patent I believe that some of these companies getting more power in the industry is positive.

I also have to look at where this money is going to. I think for paintball we need more of the big companies like BE and Kingman because they bring so much more to the table for paintball. Sure I dont think Smart Parts is a great company to be doing this, with cheaply made products, stolen technology :)

Some of these royalties they are getting are going to dynasty now I am sure and I think that is good for the sport as well because it kind of takes a step in the right direction for the professional level. The only thing in question is the ability for dynasty and other teams in the future to behave themselves.

Forgive me if I lost you somewhere because I was rewriting some of this and lost my thought a couple times as well... It kind of covers some of the basic thoughts in my mind. Feel free to argue back :)