Thinking about making a smaller e-mag battery?

[hostage]

What do yall think. I am thinking about creating a e-mag battery, of course it will be lower in amp hours, though i think it would last a pretty long time. I would mostlikely put a spacer in bottom to make up for the size, but it would be lighter.
-Doron

[Big_Chops]

that would be sweet

[tony3]

Or completely get rid of the battery pack and put on a normal foregrip and locate the battery somwhere else

[Big_Chops]

pure genious

[Mossman]

talk to sniper1rfa. He knows where to get the batteries, what batts will work, and has thought this over in the past. He's too busy going fishing all the time to actually make and market one though :D

[Methylphenidate]

id buy one. sounds really cool

[Cyberious]

Originally posted by tony3
Or completely get rid of the battery pack and put on a normal foregrip and locate the battery somwhere else

I have both of what remains of the Carl Bonta EMags that had the battery packs displaced. (You can search on his name and find pictures.) Moving the battery has caused nothing but trouble with the markers and ruined two of the nicest looking markers AGD ever produced. I have spent alot of money getting them back to their original condition and am still not finished yet.

Trust me. DO NOT DO THIS TO YOUR EMAG! Not only does it mess up the functionality but it *VOIDS* your warranty!

[hostage]

hrmm i could machine a forgrip that could house the smaller batteries making it even lighter :-D
-Doron

[Kevmaster]

havn't i seen this post before?

hasn't it already been deemed impossible by AGD many times (or else they would have done it)

[JoyInTheMadness]

I like the big battery, helps balance the gun nicely :).

[hostage]

Kev, thanx for the inspiration, love it when people say its impossible, it makes me want to do it. Peeps use to say that the booyaah couldn't work with Retro valves and that they suck, however i proved peeps wrong an made everyone that was broken work :)
-Doron

[Bad_Knees]

Hostage,

I'm sure if you can find the right solenoid that can trip the sear you can change the battery size. Just takes alot of experimentation. As we have seen it has taken some time for things to happen (ULT, LX, and ULE parts), I'm sure with some effort you can come up with a solution. PM me when you have some time since I have some questions on the booyah for you ;)

BK

[fire1811]

Originally posted by Kevmaster
havn't i seen this post before?

hasn't it already been deemed impossible by AGD many times (or else they would have done it)

yes this has been done many times before and still not battery pack BUT AGD also said it was not possible to make a fully functioning blade trigger also.
Well logic has done that so maybe hostage can pull this off

[LaW]

Originally posted by fire1811


yes this has been done many times before and still not battery pack BUT AGD also said it was not possible to make a fully functioning blade trigger also.
Well logic has done that so maybe hostage can pull this off


Thats not true. AGD had made a prototype blade trigger at one point but did not want to produce it because it didn't look good. And not a lot of people think the logic blade trigger looks good either

[Methylphenidate]

what about the tl63
now thats one fine good lookin piece of blade trigger right there

[LaW]

Originally posted by Methylphenidate
what about the tl63
now thats one fine good lookin piece of blade trigger right there


You forget that the tl63 was not fully functional....


But as for the battery.... Honestly is it worth it? I dont personally think it is. You cannot shed off that much weight.

[Big_Chops]

tl63 not fully functional! what? mine works fine and there have been many other users that have had theres work fine too. there was a thread with about 15 people who said theres worked in mech and e mode.

[LaW]

Originally posted by Big_Chops
tl63 not fully functional! what? mine works fine and there have been many other users that have had theres work fine too. there was a thread with about 15 people who said theres worked in mech and e mode.


Yeah exactly what I said. Lets not mention the 2 cases of the trigger breaking through the frame. The fact that unless you have a setting you like that actually works in mech and emode. You cant just freely adjust the etrigger and expect it to work problem free with mech without adjusting the set screw....


I am not saying some people dont have issues but I know at least 3 that it doesn't work "perfectly for"

[Bad_Knees]

If you were able to reduce the number of battery cells that make up the battery I'm sure it would reduce the weight. But in this case it takes I think 14 cells to make up the emag battery. If you were to find a solenoid strong enough and sturdy enough to handle the workload without the need of so much VOltage or amperage then it may just work. I know this has been covered in previous threads but no one has posted their findings on this matter (I know there are a few out there tinkering).
Just my $.02

BK

[50 cal]

I've always liked the idea of a battery and case that was about half the size of the current one. I'm not a really heavy shooter so a battery that didn't last quite as long is of no concern to me.

[BarryTolar]

With Lit Ion or Lit Poly a suitable pack could be made that would have roughly twice the capacity and half the size/weight

And YES those chemistries can handle NiCAD or NiMmh current flow rates very easily and for extended periods of time.

With a proper charger there are no more risks than with traditional packs.

The Etec 700 has 700mah and can handle 3.5amp continusus. Weight is .51 ounces. This is a single 4.2Vt Cell.

The Stock Emag Battery is 16.8Vt 650mah (I’d like to know what the current requirements of the battery is just for my own amusement)

Provided 3.5amp will supply sufficient power for the emag 4 of the Etec’s will provide 16.8Vt and 700mah all with a 2 ounce weight and a size of 1.33” wide 3.8” tall and .4” thick.

A Pack made from the Etec 1200 with a current of 7.5amp would be 1.33” wide 4.66” tall and .48” thick and a weight of 3.28 ounces. 1200mah is almost twice the stock emag capacity.

One thing to note about Lit Poly is that’s it’s a bear to charge but a 4 cell pack could be made and an somewhat inexpensive charger could be sourced.

Another think of note with Lit Poly is that the discharge pattern for these cells is very flat – providing very close to their rated voltage for almost the duration of it’s charge – not something that Nicad or Nimh can say.

Just some things to think about folks and if anyone will post the physical dimensions of a stock emag battery and the current requirement of the emag I’d be grateful.

Barry

[WARPED1]

Make the battery round, the big bulky rectangular battery makes an otherwise pretty gun, pretty damn fugly............

[maglover52]

i dont see why they make it like an angel battery? or they could be like matrixes and eblades and use a 9 volt battery :eek:

[Kevmaster]

Originally posted by maglover52
i dont see why they make it like an angel battery? or they could be like matrixes and eblades and use a 9 volt battery :eek:

because our solenoid is FRIGGIN HUGE!! it takes a hell of a lot more force to do what ours does that what theirs does. That is the smallest 'noid AGD could use that worked reliably.

[WARPED1]

Then they need a smaller 'noid. Any other electro I've used has never had a problem using a Skinner type 'noid.

[spydervenom]

apparently an emag's noid has to do more work than a spyder or cocker's noid.

[cledford]

I seem to remember a post a long while back by AGD where he'd produced a smaller battery that provided less run time. I could be wrong - do a search.

-Calvin

[hitech]

Originally posted by BarryTolar

The Etec 700 has 700mah and can handle 3.5amp continusus. Weight is .51 ounces. This is a single 4.2Vt Cell.

The Stock Emag Battery is 16.8Vt 650mah (I’d like to know what the current requirements of the battery is just for my own amusement)


That is pretty impressive. Tom told me that the solenoid can draw up to 3 amps. At least at the time Li Ion did not handle that current well.

Were can I find information on this battery you speak of?

[beam]

The noid in a Hyperframe isn't that big...runs off a 9v. Get lots of shots from it. It has to handle the same load. Plus, wouldn't ULT allow for an even smaller noid?

[BarryTolar]

Well I agree Lit Ion still can't handle 3Amp loads very well or for duration

Lit Poly on the other hand

I seem to have misplaced the manu's site but here's just one of many places the cells can be sourced http://www.edogfight.com/Catalog_page/BatteriesLiPo.htm

I'm not terrible interested in working on the project but thought the info might be of intrest to some of ya'll - I do love having 2 hobbies (Let's just say Lit batteries have allowed me to out fly slimers in both duration and lenght)

Barry(PM or email me if you would like to pick my brain regarding the cells - I've used a LOT of them so)

[sniper1rfa]

from what i heard, lithium polymer would work fine. Expensive though (i admit that i dont know a lot abou them).

out of curiosity, do the lit-pol cells have the same cathode degredation problem as lithium-ion?


lithium ion wouldnt work. Cant sink the current, and they dont like working in packs.


The 650 mAh cells in the normal emag pack are about as small as you can get. Datapimp and i did some work with them, and the 2/3AAA 320 mAh cells work great for about 3000 shots, then they start skipping. That is essentially one size smaller than the normal emag packs.

feel free to email me with questions about any pack building. i think between me and barrytolar, we can answer anything abut any chemistry. :-)

[BarryTolar]

I've not noticed problems with the Lit Polys except when I do things to them your not supposed to :)

Of course if you treat Lit Ion's it's not a significant problem of course this is just in my expercience I know it's supposed to be a problem just saying I haven't noticed it with either chemistry

The main thing to worry about packing up lit ion is keeping them matched and then charged properly but 3amp is pushing most of the lit ions pretty hard so Poly is just the only way to go

one thing to note I'm kinda surprised 2/3 AAA nimh could handle 3amp for an extended time period although the nicads could but I'm just guessing that the weight wasn't a LOT less than the stock pack - I dunno know though

Ahhh I miss my brushless airplanes - currently doing ultralight indoor and parkflyers so as to relax my nerves9(that was my excuse for getting into Efly in the first place and well a 50mph place ain't relaxing)

Now if I could just learn to spell :)

Barry

[Hexis]

I'm super interested in this. A couple questions.

From the looks of it, I would need 4 packs, either the 700s or the 1200s, wire them in series, and connect to the emag.

What kind of charger would be needed? Got some links to appropiate choices?

[BTAutoMag]

if you do make this, keep the battery pack where it is... i think it looks great, dont change the placement

[sniper1rfa]

its only 20 ms at a shot, so many cells could do it. It wouldnt surprise me if a 1/3AAA pack could do it for a couple shots. :)

The GP cells i use have similar or lower internal resistance than NiCad cells. They can handle anything nicad can.

[FragTek]

I hope someone turns this project into a reality :)

I would love to have a battery thats at least 1/2 the size of the one currently on the mags, while retaining the style of the CnC housing... The best of both worlds would be awesome!

Good luck to you Hostage!