AGD Kids win Country Club 3 man

[spore 283]

Andy,Chance,and Chester took 1st today at the country club today. We played 4 prelim games for a total of 400 points. This made a 3 way tie for 1st. 8 teams went on to the finals. The finals were sudden death. This means that when you lose you are out. We played 3 more games in the finals and won all 3. This made us UNDEFEATED for the day. We won 3 shockers.



CHESTER AGD LION-KID

[shartley]

Congratz guys. :D

[Stitch]

Way to go !!!!!!! Congrats all the way :)

[Load SM5]

Awesome job guys! You do us proud.

Going to keep the shockers?:D

[Oddball]

Nice job guys.

How much are the shockers going for?

[kevinkills99]

Wasn't that a novice tournament? Sheesh guys, you were playing 13 year olds. I guess amatuer=novice now.

[Scooter/Cootie]

Congrats guys. Keep up the good work!

[fire1811]

good job chester
had to work or i would have been there reffin ya

later
Curt
Team BAM

[lonsch]

i thought that was a rookie/novice tourney?

[kevinkills99]

Originally posted by lonsch
i thought that was a rookie/novice tourney?
So did I. Nice job on beating the newbies guys.:rolleyes:

[AutomagRT1483]

Congrats. :D

[dark2k2lcd]

isn't illegal to enter a tourney thats rookie if you play AM? I mean how would you like it if dynasty showed up? (well they probably couldn't get anybody out because their POS shockers would have crazy drop off)

[tony3]

It was a local novice tourney, www.ccpaintball.com

Isn't local novice considered like national rookie level? Aren't you guys better then that?

[frost]

god y is everyone knockin on the pride for entering local tournments :rolleyes: i wouldnt care if they showed up at a local tournment i play in sure id get a a$$ kicked but hey its the pride!

p.s. see that u guys already got really nice markers u wanna send me one of the shockers!:p

[agdemagman69]

Hey Congrats! Its not everday you see an Amateur team kill a bunch of newcomers at a novice tournament!

I was at this tournament watching, and i gotta say what you did was just low... and not only did you set a bad example for up and coming players, but you also set a bad rep for AGD.

What happened to you AGD kids? you used to be cool.

[tony3]

Originally posted by frost
god y is everyone knockin on the pride for entering local tournments :rolleyes: i would care if they showed up at a local tournment i play in sure id get a a$$ kicked but hey its the pride!

p.s. see that u guys already got really nice markers u wanna send me one of the shockers!:p

its cool if they enter local tournies....not novice ones though

[spore 283]

We played in the am division for 2 tournments this year. All the others we played as novice. There were some rookie teams but there was also alot of teams there that have played togeter for a very long time. It wasen't like we walked all over everyone. We had some tough games. 2 prelim games came down to us 1 them 3. The social d team has played in the pro division before. I don't see any one crying about them playing. So if you ask me I think all you cry babies need to quit feeling sorry for yourselfs. If we were such an shame why couldn't you say anything to us at the tourny. You wait to talk crap behind your computer. SHUT UP AND GET OFF THE FIELD THERES NO CRYING IN PAINTBALL.

CHESTER,AGDLION-KID

[frost]

well said

[agdemagman69]

I never said that it was right for Social D to enter the tournament now did i? and i talked to them about that before the games. And why would i feel sorry for myself?

I'm just saying i dont think its good sportsmanship for a team that won skyball, Took first at BFG 3-man, took second at the IAO, and has played in Amateur level tournaments to be playing at a local NOVICE level tournament

Also, let me point out the definition of novice:
nov·ice n.
-A person new to a field or activity; a beginner

The AGD kids are definitly not beginners...

[Big_Chops]

congrats guys! keep rockin. and just ignore these guys they are a bunch of whiners. i got ur back its all good.:D

[Brian Terry AGD]

you only get better if you play people better then you are.the nppl and psp has the kids as novice ...good job guys .see you in jan chester....

[LaW]

Some of you people talking crap about them playing in local tournaments... I really dont respect you guys... Perhaps its jealousy that you are not on a team? Perhaps you cant play very well? I dont have all the answers but its very disrespectful.

[CoFFeY[NiTrO]]

way to go guys. Chester, you kick arse.

('03 shockers?)

[wimag]

Originally posted by frost
god y is everyone knockin on the pride for entering local tournments :rolleyes: i wouldnt care if they showed up at a local tournment i play in sure id get a a$$ kicked but hey its the pride!


when and if you ever play in tournies you will see where some of the resentment comes from. Tournies are not cheap and if a team feels another team is sandbagging, well it tends to rub them the wrong way.
I am not saying they were sandbagging, the field let them enter, I assume the field has heard their track record.

Players who want to improve their game compete above their level without whining, those who dont will.

Frost, local tournie at BFG in 2 weeks, put your money down and show up. See you there.

Good job AGD Kids !!!

[tony3]

Originally posted by LaW
Some of you people talking crap about them playing in local tournaments... I really dont respect you guys... Perhaps its jealousy that you are not on a team? Perhaps you cant play very well? I dont have all the answers but its very disrespectful.

I dont think you understand, this tourney wasn't any special novice, it was a lower level novice tourney, sure there were some good teams, but agd lions are a very good team and have an awesome track record, but to walk into a local novice tourney which is much below their level of play just to get some quick cash? Kind of shows the integrity of the team. Also, less experienced teams don't appreciate this either. They didn't pay a lot of money to get rocked by a far more experienced team.

Say what you want, thats my 2 cents.

[Tony D.]

Good job guys!! You beat guys who are 10x worse than you.

Go agd, woooooo!!!!!!!!

:rolleyes:

[LaW]

Originally posted by tony3


I dont think you understand, this tourney wasn't any special novice, it was a lower level novice tourney, sure there were some good teams, but agd lions are a very good team and have an awesome track record, but to walk into a local novice tourney which is much below their level of play just to get some quick cash? Kind of shows the integrity of the team. Also, less experienced teams don't appreciate this either. They didn't pay a lot of money to get rocked by a far more experienced team.

Say what you want, thats my 2 cents.


Well those teams better practice more and get better ... If it was such a problem then the teams should have complained to the field running the event and the people running the event should have stepped in. I can see where the people getting all worked up over this are coming from but personally I think its a load of crap :)

[Big_Chops]

i am with law on this one:D if it was bothering them they shoulda said somthing instead of comming on here to moan and groan. when now nothing can be done about it

[kevinkills99]

Originally posted by LaW



Well those teams better practice more and get better ... If it was such a problem then the teams should have complained to the field running the event and the people running the event should have stepped in. I can see where the people getting all worked up over this are coming from but personally I think its a load of crap :)
Law, you don't understand. Comments were said to the management, by me and other players, but they still allowed it. There are always people in the industry that are buddy buddy with each other, and since Tom K. visits the field, I think the owners and the reffs looked the other way on this. Give me a break chester, you had a tough time? You maxed every single game in prelims. Sorry but when you spend at least 200$ in a local tourney, you don't expect Pro's to sub in, or experienced NPPL/PSP teams of a higher division to step in. Both the field owners/managers, reffs, and sandbaggers are at fault. It was a little obvious things were unfair after objectional calls were made, and all the reffs and employees are sitting around and chatting with the AGD teams. This was a disappointment for AGD and all players who payed to play in this event. You AGD people don't care right? I mean, after all, they used mags, you people weren't playing, so it's all good? Cut the cult following BS.

[LaW]

Originally posted by kevinkills99

Law, you don't understand. Comments were said to the management, by me and other players, but they still allowed it. There are always people in the industry that are buddy buddy with each other, and since Tom K. visits the field, I think the owners and the reffs looked the other way on this. Give me a break chester, you had a tough time? You maxed every single game in prelims. Sorry but when you spend at least 200$ in a local tourney, you don't expect Pro's to sub in, or experienced NPPL/PSP teams of a higher division to step in. Both the field owners/managers, reffs, and sandbaggers are at fault. It was a little obvious things were unfair after objectional calls were made, and all the reffs and employees are sitting around and chatting with the AGD teams. This was a disappointment for AGD and all players who payed to play in this event. You AGD people don't care right? I mean, after all, they used mags, you people weren't playing, so it's all good? Cut the cult following BS.


Well first I dont consider myself some kind of cult follower. I dont always want to stick up for the company I have been loyal too for 6 years. Coming from someone that has been in local tournaments where there were more experienced teams playing I know that I welcome the challenge and that the teams I have played for in the past have put a lot of practice work in that I feel come any sunday we could have went out and taken it all. I still play local novice tournaments because the teams I play on usually are made up of new players getting into the scene. I do understand, and when only a couple of people are complaining about them playing I dont feel thats enough. If you really didn't want to "throw your money away" you would have just demanded a full refund and just leave the tournament.

And just once more, I am not slinging any cult following BS :) My posts are kind of looking at a more general outlook on "experienced" players playing local tournaments. Teams have to start somewhere, if they let losing a little in their first tournament get to them without wanting to improve themselves then I think they are not playing for the right reasons.

[kevinkills99]

Originally posted by LaW
I do understand, and when only a couple of people are complaining about them playing I dont feel thats enough. If you really didn't want to "throw your money away" you would have just demanded a full refund and just leave the tournament.
Teams did leave. PLayers were getting angry, but some teams changed their names and wore different jersey's to hide themselves. AGD wore their jersey's, so they were easily seen. Believe me, if I knew it was going to be stacked with teams like this, I would've demanded a refund. It was too late, and I doubt they would've given a refund anyways.

[lonsch]

i was not at the tourney a friend of mine told me on saturday that he was going to it. when i saw that agd won it i was shocked that they even would post that they were there. you dont have to talk about every tourney you play.

by the way i have not beeb here in a long time. i got board and was shocked to see that agd played the tourney.

im sorry im such a cry babie. i did'nt know that we were not allowed to say anything negative about AGD EVER.......

[LaW]

Originally posted by kevinkills99

Teams did leave. PLayers were getting angry, but some teams changed their names and wore different jersey's to hide themselves. AGD wore their jersey's, so they were easily seen. Believe me, if I knew it was going to be stacked with teams like this, I would've demanded a refund. It was too late, and I doubt they would've given a refund anyways.


Well you pay the money and you decide to play and you dont do so well dont just blame everything on "teams being stacked".... Could it just be that the teams that did play didnt' put any time or perperation before the tournament? I mean I meet all these kids on teams that never practice and they just play tournaments expecting wins to just come their way. But honestly it doesnt work that way. Like was said, you only get better playing teams that are better then you.

[agdemagman69]

Originally posted by LaW



Well you pay the money and you decide to play and you dont do so well dont just blame everything on "teams being stacked".... Could it just be that the teams that did play didnt' put any time or perperation before the tournament? I mean I meet all these kids on teams that never practice and they just play tournaments expecting wins to just come their way. But honestly it doesnt work that way. Like was said, you only get better playing teams that are better then you.


Wow. Whats the matter? cant just accept that what they did was somewhat wrong?

A lot of the teams at this tournament were very dedicated, I saw almost every team walking the field and checking positions and noting specific moves and paths, and i talked to a LOT of the rookie teams about there pracice schedule. For instance I met some members from Team Unreal, three 16 year olds from michigan who have had 15+ seperate team practices, coming all the way down here to play their first tournament.

And if you can only get better by playing better teams then wtf was AGD kids doing playing a bunch of rookies?

And whats even funnier, is that AGD kids Beat Social D (the team that had been in a pro tourney)

[kevinkills99]

Originally posted by LaW



Well you pay the money and you decide to play and you dont do so well dont just blame everything on "teams being stacked".... Could it just be that the teams that did play didnt' put any time or perperation before the tournament? I mean I meet all these kids on teams that never practice and they just play tournaments expecting wins to just come their way. But honestly it doesnt work that way. Like was said, you only get better playing teams that are better then you.
Do you play tournament ball, honestly? ARe you rich? Does your mom buy your equipment? When you're a broke college student, you don't pay a 225$ entry fee and 75 bucks a case to play better teams. That's what practice is for. I didn't 'expect' to win, but I went in thinking it was going to be a FAIR tournament. I was way off. Of course I prepared for the tournament. I'm not blaming our loss solely on stacked teams. But when a team blatantly sandbags a tournament, is allowed to by the owner of the field, it pushes my buttons even more. I know I'm not the only one who feels this way, "as was said before." Cult followers....

[LaW]

Originally posted by kevinkills99

Do you play tournament ball, honestly? ARe you rich? Does your mom buy your equipment? When you're a broke college student, you don't pay a 225$ entry fee and 75 bucks a case to play better teams. That's what practice is for.



Well first of all I am 20, I am a Junior in college right now. I am independant and get grants from the government for school. I work 30-40 hours a week. I live in a nice place, I drive a nice car and I feel rich, but am I ? Not at all, I have plenty of debt. I am a broke college student. I have been in tournaments where there was no competition, and I have been in tournaments where there were simply teams that were better then we were. You can never go into a tournament expecting to have a Fair chance of winning... How can you judge how good a team is? Yeah and we dont have to bring my mom into it... I havnt spoken with her in 3 years. I dont see how getting personal with me is going to help your point of view. I have been in your shoes and know exactly what you are talking about I just dont have as much of a problem with it as some other people do.

[demonguy8]

Its a sad thing to say that this doesnt suprise me in the slightest, whenever theres a semi decent prize package to be won, sandbagging will be prevalent in this sport. Such a shame. But anywho:

NPPL Rulebook

"9.05 Any player is allowed to play on a pro team. Only two pro players are allowed on an Amateur team. Only two Amateur players are allowed on a novice team. No players from any other class are allowed on a Rookie team."

CCP (like most Tournies , uses modified NPPL format) Kids stated themselves to be am Team, and indeed won SKYBALL AT THAT LEVEL. Once you step up,YOU ARE AN AM TEAM no ways around that. Read the above rule one more time.. You guys had 3 not 2. Shame both you guys and the owner for that one.

Now adding to this lovely fact, this was a local tournament.NPPL and LOCAL classifications DO NOT MATCH Around these parts a LOCAL am team is roughly equivalent to rookie/MAYBE novice level NPPL team. Since this WAS a local tournament, this means that the kids where very much likely to be playing as much as 3 divisions above their status. Never dropped a game you say?

So umm yeah good job I guess you really showed those recballers a thing or two. Enjoy your shockers... you sure earned em :rolleyes:

[kevinkills99]

Originally posted by LaW




Well first of all I am 20, I am a Junior in college right now. I am independant and get grants from the government for school. I work 30-40 hours a week. I live in a nice place, I drive a nice car and I feel rich, but am I ? Not at all, I have plenty of debt. I am a broke college student. I have been in tournaments where there was no competition, and I have been in tournaments where there were simply teams that were better then we were. You can never go into a tournament expecting to have a Fair chance of winning... How can you judge how good a team is? Yeah and we dont have to bring my mom into it... I havnt spoken with her in 3 years. I dont see how getting personal with me is going to help your point of view. I have been in your shoes and know exactly what you are talking about I just dont have as much of a problem with it as some other people do.
Law, just shut up and drink the magic kool-aid

[fire1811]

losers always cry and whine!

suck it up

[Oddball]

Well first off I was not there. But the Kids entered as the AGD Kids, they had their AGD stuff on, they didn't try to hide who they were (I don't think Chet could hide if he wanted to). It was Country Club's tourny to run so if they had problems with them "sand bagging" they could have told the Kids so when they signed up.

Now if the Kids showed up wearing jeans and shirts, shooting rental guns, and calling themselves "Super Xtreme Sniper Killas" or some other stupid made up name, then ppl could complain. As it is, it was CC paintballs call to let them play so I can't see how the Kids could be to blame.

[Oddball]

forgot to post link to pics

link to CC paintball site (http://www.ccpaintball.com/tournaments.htm)

[Troy]

The Kids PSP classification is Novice.

Skyball and IAO have no effect on your teams level even if you play in the Am or Pro division.

Also, the Kids were playing rookie last year.

If you have a problem with the novice Kids playing at this novice tournament bring it up with CC.

[LaW]

Originally posted by kevinkills99

Law, just shut up and drink the magic kool-aid


And to think your older then me :rolleyes:

[frost]

i dont believe what im hearing from all you cry babies

one they're not posting to be all "OoOoO look at us we won"

god every chance i get to play someone better than me i jump at the chance. when i play the pride at an ao day i learn a lot from playing and watching them!

your acting like the pride is out to take every tourny and win all the prizes.

ur all acting like little children go home and cry yourselves to sleep about it

i know not even half of you would say half the **** ur saying to the pride face to face



and for those who were there and didnt like the fact they played you have the right to say something but for u to cry about and say that team like the pride will stop the stop from growing you sickin me!


p.s. kevinkills99 just couse ur your a cry baby you dont need to attack laW like that it was uncalled for

[agdemagman69]

Originally posted by frost
i dont believe what im hearing from all you cry babies

one they're not posting to be all "OoOoO look at us we won"

god every chance i get to play someone better than me i jump at the chance. when i play the pride at an ao day i learn a lot from playing and watching them!

your acting like the pride is out to take every tourny and win all the prizes.

ur all acting like little children go home and cry yourselves to sleep about it

i know not even half of you would say half the **** ur saying to the pride face to face



and for those who were there and didnt like the fact they played you have the right to say something but for u to cry about and say that team like the pride will stop the stop from growing you sickin me!


p.s. kevinkills99 just couse ur your a cry baby you dont need to attack laW like that it was uncalled for


Yeah, maybe you should read the whole thread before you post....

[Scooter/Cootie]

Originally posted by frost
your acting like the pride is out to take every tourny and win all the prizes.

Just to clarify, it was the AGD Kids that played in the event at CC. Not AGD Pride.


Also, I think this thread is starting to get a little out-of-hand. Everyone needs to take a deep breath and simmer down a bit. The name calling, flaming, and bashing is uncalled for.

Lets act like mature adults and keep the conversation civil guys. Thanks.

[flip-queen]

Nice job boys. Congrats.

Nice reffing job here in the thread too, Scoots. :p

[sellout007]

Originally posted by spore 283
It wasen't like we walked all over everyone. We had some tough games. CHESTER,AGDLION-KID


Hmm you call going undefeated not rolling over the competition?

Sounds lame to me. But then again its CCP and they are a bunch of asses.

[LaW]

Originally posted by sellout007



Hmm you call going undefeated not rolling over the competition?

Sounds lame to me. But then again its CCP and they are a bunch of asses.


Just because you go undefeated doesnt mean you are rolling over the competition... lets take any team in any tournament that happens to go undefeated... that means they shouldn't be playing the tournament? Man lots of lame teams out there then haha :D

[sellout007]

Originally posted by LaW



Well you pay the money and you decide to play and you dont do so well dont just blame everything on "teams being stacked".... Could it just be that the teams that did play didnt' put any time or perperation before the tournament? I mean I meet all these kids on teams that never practice and they just play tournaments expecting wins to just come their way. But honestly it doesnt work that way. Like was said, you only get better playing teams that are better then you.

You seem to be missing the point and avoiding the points that are being thrown at you.

Im posative that the teams there, IF they were informed that they would be playing against amaB players that play in the nppl and psp they would have NOT paid to get into the tournament.

But the fact is that CCP did not inform them. Why? Because they could give two ****s. They want the money, thats all they care about. They knew full well who they were letting in and knew full well what was going to happen.

And if you have ever played a tournament in your life you know that you will never get a refund the day of the tourney.

Your right, you do need to play teams that are better then you to get better. But does that mean you pay hundredds of dollars to do it? No, of course not. You play them at practice, and when you THINK you have a fighting chance to beat them then you step up to THEIR level and join the tournaments that they play in. Not the other way around. Get it straight o).

CCP is more at fault then anyone here. I cant blame AGD for playing in a tournament where they new they would basically walk away with free guns. Id be drawn to that too. But dont even try and defend them and say its right for them to be in those kidns of tournaments, it wont fly.

[sellout007]

Originally posted by frost
god every chance i get to play someone better than me i jump at the chance.


Hey come up/down here and play shocktech, ill put $500 bucks of my own money on the line. How much are you willing to pay knowing you will loose?

Hmm id guess nothing.

Playing a better team is great for PRACTICE. Not when yoru coughing up loads of cash.

[sellout007]

Originally posted by LaW



Just because you go undefeated doesnt mean you are rolling over the competition... lets take any team in any tournament that happens to go undefeated... that means they shouldn't be playing the tournament? Man lots of lame teams out there then haha :D


And going undefeated is not *rolling over the competiton* then i dont know what is.

Give it up, they were completely in the wrong lvl of play. But im not so much faulting them as I am CCP. Hell if i was them id want a free shocker too!

[Yamz]

Think about this... If you let the name beat you before you even take the field than its no wonder you lost the round... Like it or not AGD Kids are a novice team in a novice tourny. Like was stated before at Skyball and IAO it does not matter what level you play on there your division (Amature, Novice, Pro)does not change.

Looks like there are two options here
1. Get over it and play harder
2. GO HOME

[LaW]

Originally posted by sellout007


You seem to be missing the point and avoiding the points that are being thrown at you.

Im posative that the teams there, IF they were informed that they would be playing against amaB players that play in the nppl and psp they would have NOT paid to get into the tournament.

I believe their player classification is Novice

But the fact is that CCP did not inform them. Why? Because they could give two ****s. They want the money, thats all they care about. They knew full well who they were letting in and knew full well what was going to happen.

And if you have ever played a tournament in your life you know that you will never get a refund the day of the tourney.

Not true, I have been in two tournaments where I was able to get a refund.

Your right, you do need to play teams that are better then you to get better. But does that mean you pay hundredds of dollars to do it? No, of course not. You play them at practice, and when you THINK you have a fighting chance to beat them then you step up to THEIR level and join the tournaments that they play in. Not the other way around. Get it straight o).

I personally have no problem doing that. This is all a matter of opinion. Stop trying to argue that. You personally are not paying hundreds of dollars to play. You are on a team so it is more like 50-75 maybe. We could argue forever trying to justify our view of who should play what when and where. Let it go.


But dont even try and defend them and say its right for them to be in those kidns of tournaments, it wont fly.

Once again I can say its right for them to play any tournament. Freedom of speach, my opinion whatever you want to call it. I am not defending "them", my comments go for any team that people dont think should be playing a tournament. I still think there are some sore losers out there.

I also have to say that I think the fact they are "AGD" intimidates some players, not only that if they get beat they get frustrated and turn to blame it on something. This is what we are seeing. A frustrated team cant perform enough to win consistantly

[LaW]

By the way, this thread is goign nowhere fast so I am going to just get out of it now.

[frost]

id be willing to pay alot

[A to the G-Dizzle]

Hey, I played with Social D and just so everyone knows I believe(correct me if I'm wrong)you must play 2 National class tournaments under the professional level to be ranked pro. Only 2(me and chris) of the 4 players who were playing played Professional at Commander's Cup. In Chicago NPPL, the same 2 players that played pro were playing Rookie.

SD and AGD both won tournaments before at CC but they were ROOKIE. Once they step up to novice you gotta expect some real compeition.

The problem is everyone wants to be the sandbagger and not the sandbagee.

Congrats on the win Chet. I'm still kickin myself in the *** for losing to you guys twice;)

Alex

[sellout007]

Originally posted by frost
id be willing to pay alot

Good Id love to have some extra cash in my pocket, not to mention see you guys get smoked to ****. o)

Law- your absoluetly right, its your opinion. But doesnt change the facts o) Im taking leave with you, ive spoken my peace. Adios.

[frost]

yea im done here two

[CoolGSak]

I think that both the AGD Kids and Country Club share equal blame.
If you win Skyball for christ's sake there is no way you should be entering local rookie/novice tournaments no matter how attractive the prize package is. But on the other hand, CC allowed them to enter knowing full well who they are and what they have accomplished...

[agdemagman69]

Originally posted by sellout007


You seem to be missing the point and avoiding the points that are being thrown at you.

Im posative that the teams there, IF they were informed that they would be playing against amaB players that play in the nppl and psp they would have NOT paid to get into the tournament.

But the fact is that CCP did not inform them. Why? Because they could give two ****s. They want the money, thats all they care about. They knew full well who they were letting in and knew full well what was going to happen.

And if you have ever played a tournament in your life you know that you will never get a refund the day of the tourney.

Your right, you do need to play teams that are better then you to get better. But does that mean you pay hundredds of dollars to do it? No, of course not. You play them at practice, and when you THINK you have a fighting chance to beat them then you step up to THEIR level and join the tournaments that they play in. Not the other way around. Get it straight o).

CCP is more at fault then anyone here. I cant blame AGD for playing in a tournament where they new they would basically walk away with free guns. Id be drawn to that too. But dont even try and defend them and say its right for them to be in those kidns of tournaments, it wont fly.

Very well said

[tony3]

I agree with Coolgsak.

AGD Kids won skyball under the AM division, thats the highest divsion at skyball. That is considered a national level tourney, it will attract people from all over the US and Canada, and they won it, under AM. Then they play a LOCAL tourney under NOVICE? How fair is that? I'm sure ccp didn't even think about not letting them play. This is the land of agd stuff, and if they refuse to let an agd sponsored team not play that could take a toll with their relationship with agd. The fact of the matter is, agd kids were entered this tourney for some quick cash, even though they damn well knew that they were going to be the best team out there. I really doubt the integrity of some of the guys on agd kids now...

[magking1971]

Law your only 20?
I thought you were much older then that...

[fire1811]

can someone show me the rule that a national novice tourney is different then a local novice tourney?

[cphilip]

Ok... everyone had their say?

Fact is they played in the division they were ranked.

Fact is they were probably the most seasoned team in that tourney.

Fact is they demonstrated they were pretty darn good.

Fact is the Tournament organizer recognised their classification was correct and let them play.

Fact is there is a VERY WIDE disparity of talent in Am division. But the promoter needed teams to he had to take all the variites of people in that division to make any money putting it on.

Fact is teams like the kids use tournaments likes these to gain practice time. They close to them and they cheaper to attend.

Fact is if you don't like these rules then work to change them and better clarify rankings and divisions. But good luck getting the promoter to go along with it. He wants teams and entry fee's.

Fact is they did nothing wrong and did everything within the guidlines of that event.

Fact is they just happened to be the best team their. And showed it.

Fact is you can be sour about it and consider it unfair all you want but IT WAS FAIR according to the event and according to existing classification rules.

Congrats guys. Just remember that the more your in the spotlight the more people will target you for critisism. It just goes with the territory. Its nothing personal I am certain. Its jealousy and envy more of it than not. Some of it is critisism of the way things are in local tournaments. And we all know they are not perfect nor always fair. As Tom says paintball can be an ugly bussiness. At its prettiest!

[trixx75]

#1 Reason why I don't bother entering some of these tournaments, especially at CCP. There are always teams that sandbag at these local tournaments.

These local tournaments are usually not governed well and they don't look at teams, they look for the money coming in. More teams equal more money.

So I'm not very surprised to see this happen. Either way, what can you do about it. They won the tournament and got the prizes, will CCP recognize this issue, I doubt it. When big prizes like that appear at a tournament, be prepared to have sandbagging involved, it means you have to play just as hard for the prize if you want it.

Unless you go to a NPPL or PSP, a big event like that sandbagging will always slip through the cracks.

[cphilip]

Well what you call sandbagging is a team with more experience in your division looking for a local place to get some real tourney practice in. If you don't want to compete then I guess you wouldn't enter. They entered as the level they are ranked. If everyone else that entered is so ranked but not as good they will not win. Just calling it a dirty name don't make it the case. I see local teams that are serious coming to all the local tournaments around here. Sometimes they DO NOT win! Sometimes a couple kids having fun beat em! And thats fun to watch too. Most of them are above Most of the teams there that enter. Its the way you get some good competition in. I have seen my Son get together a pick up team and lose to a local high skill team that you would call "Sandbaggers" and take it to em and even win a game or two off them. And yet lose the tourney but be every proud of the fact his little group took it to the "Pro's". He was never dissapointed to lose the tourney as long as he could give them dudes a good wackin! It would have ment far less to win against a bunch of 13 year olds as it did to take a game from the local Pro team. I agree that the rankings are very broad. But they are as they are. If you really are not that material then don't waste your time. Play for fun. Tournament ball is not the most fun kinda ball out there. You certainly should never take the attitude why try cause I can't beat em. They all beatable. Every one of them.

[tony3]

Well, yes I guess you could "consider" it their right division, but a local novice tourney is going to be nothing like the AM division at skyball, the fact is, agd kids should take the step and start playing with the big boys

[cphilip]

They do that too. But I guess you missed my point that all teams look for some local tournaments to keep in practice. They spend money out of thier own pockets to do this. They have jobs and college to pay for. They DO NOT have a full ride. They live in this area and this is one of thier home fields. Expect ANY Team to show up local when they can if they are serious about thier team play.

I guess you run out of arguments and have to just admit you just would rather the competition be lighter so you have a better chance to win after a while.

[shwerp]

This whole thread and everyone complaining or defending them is all personal opinion. God Bless the U.S. By what the rules state, what the kids did was perfectly fair, but the question that you have to ask yourself is would you play in a tourney where you know you have a very good chance of winning because the skill level is considerably less then that of your team, especially when it is a local tourney and most of the people there are fans of yours. What is bothering people the most is that pipe dream of an agd team being perfect is now broken. Like I said, by rules what they did was perfectly fair and congrats on goin undefeated in a tourney, but honestly, I think most people around here expected kids to be "stand up" guys and participate at a level where there is equal competition for everyone. Some people on this thread will defend them till the day they die, others will attack them. Just listen to each others sides instead of being so stubborn to completely ignore the facts of what happened. That goes for first time posters to mods...

[demonguy8]

Originally posted by cphilip
They do that too. But I guess you missed my point that all teams look for some local tournaments to keep in practice. They spend money out of thier own pockets to do this. They have jobs and college to pay for. They DO NOT have a full ride. They live in this area and this is one of thier home fields. Expect ANY Team to show up local when they can if they are serious about thier team play.

I guess you run out of arguments and have to just admit you just would rather the competition be lighter so you have a better chance to win after a while.


Sigh.. Im giving up on this... The ignorance displayed by so many people in this thread is sickening (not entirely directed at you cphil but your last 3 posts ARE quite saddening). The only thing I can figure is that some people here are entirely too agd brainwashed to see the truth, The Kids played out of their division, end of story. I suppose if Dynasty were to go play a local Am tourney and dominate everyone for their own benifit, that it would be OK too huh? :rolleyes:

A few side notes: The Kids didnt pay for that tournament, They paid probably a combined $400 for three 2k3 shockers and a day of "PRACTICE" (your words not mine). Personally I think both the KIDS AND CCP owe whoever paid money for this tourney at least an apology.

Im done with this thread, if anyone wants to argue the finer points PM me.

[shockerfreak]

all i have to say is congrats ... i play in WI and have agd teams compeating against us all the time we are a first year tourney team and a damn good one thus far and only in thanx to these types of people but don;t hold your head down (newbie) or let this take your love for the sport away just do as we did practice harder and come back when you can and show then how you do things .... i play against the bling bling allstars in two seperate tournies now and they indded win both but not to neone's dispare they had people there that plaied as well if not better in the games they were given .. i know indeed my team beat them in a game and were the only ones to do so all day .. and thats what keeps me going to know that i did beat them and now i have a new found respect and trust for this sport to love and play it for a long time now .. and if you dont; want to play to beat the best you will never be the best .. all i have to say .. zach "bong" brazeau team INSOLENCE ... (aso played with my friends of rage in a cage for 2 tournies to help em out) and i love this sport and quit *****in' get out there and play

[kevinkills99]

Originally posted by shockerfreak
all i have to say is congrats ... i play in WI and have agd teams compeating against us all the time we are a first year tourney team and a damn good one thus far and only in thanx to these types of people but don;t hold your head down (newbie) or let this take your love for the sport away just do as we did practice harder and come back when you can and show then how you do things .... i play against the bling bling allstars in two seperate tournies now and they indded win both but not to neone's dispare they had people there that plaied as well if not better in the games they were given .. i know indeed my team beat them in a game and were the only ones to do so all day .. and thats what keeps me going to know that i did beat them and now i have a new found respect and trust for this sport to love and play it for a long time now .. and if you dont; want to play to beat the best you will never be the best .. all i have to say .. zach "bong" brazeau team INSOLENCE ... (aso played with my friends of rage in a cage for 2 tournies to help em out) and i love this sport and quit *****in' get out there and play
Sorry, but that was the biggest jumble of words i've ever seen.... Did that have anything to do with this thread?

Since when did CCP state they were using NPPL or PSP rules? This is a local tourny, there's no getting around that. It was not advertised on any forums, or endorsed by a major paintball company. Did they have to? Not necessarily, but why would they hold this tournament for more experienced players, when they only told the rec-ballers or semi-decent players at their field? They are trying to play this off like it was some experienced players tournament, and that everyone knew that. Not at all. If any of you were there, you would've seen the turnout. It was a very young group of people who have never played a serious tournament in their life. CCP did a horrible job of stating their "novice" definition, both at the field and on their site. All these kids join the tounrnament only to find out a successful amatuer team is playing with them. Their tippmans were shaking in their hands. What are they to do? Complain? What good will that do if the a-hole owner just tells them to go away? I was very disappointed in the way I, and other teams were treated at this tournament. There's a rookie tournament there in January. AGD teams, you going to play this one? You have played a few rookie tournaments in your day right? Maybe you qualify for that. Hey, they prize is more 03 shockers! You people make me sick. And demonguy, I'm with you on that idea. I'm done. You are all sucked into the cult. Have a nice day.

[cphilip]

You can yell biase all you want. Facts remain the same. They played in their division and you don't want to play head to head with them cause you want a better chance to win without doing it on the field against the best team that shows up. You want the bar lowered. You want the competition limited so your chances are better. Sorry but that in itself is as greedy and self serving as you claim them to be. The pot calling the kettle black here. Once you have to resort to name calling your argument gets lost.

[fire1811]

Originally posted by fire1811
can someone show me the rule that a national novice tourney is different then a local novice tourney?

all you people complaining i still waiting for my link?

[Booya39]

Some FYI:

I talked to George who owns CCP and he said 2 teams came up before the tournament and said they were not aware of the level of competition that was present when they signed up and they asked for their money back. Guess what... THEY GOT THEIR MONEY BACK. Stop blaming others because youre intimidated by blue jerseys.


You do realize that a true rookie team got 2nd place??? I think you need to stop blaming other people and go practice.

If the players that came to play for agd had novice NPPL ID cards... CCP is probably going to honor that, and they did.

[trixx75]

Well, I'm kinda confused on what exactly is defined as they are playing in their division???

I did a small search on the AGD Kids and found a number of Amateur tournaments that they play in and place in 1st place or top 5. Here are a few with links to the sites. And from what I'm looking at they are sponsored by AGD in some way unless I'm wrong on that part, but someone can clear that up.

Another question I have, is AGD Pride a part of AGD kids?

Some sites with their Amateur standings and other novice tournaments they have gone to as well.

Feb 2003: Congratulations to AGD KIDS!
Toronto Canada, Skydome, Skyball

Airgun Designs team, the AGD Kids, won First Place in this years Skyball event. Read on for details!
Airgun Designs (AGD) congratulates the AGD Kids on their victorious trip to Canada. All their hard work, training, and dedication paid off as they took 1st Place in the Amateur Division at this year's Skyball 5-Man tournament. The Kids' roster consists of:

Jay Smith
Andy Nolen
Mark "Lunchbox" Sommer
Chance Celeste
Jason "Chester" Manchester

Aiding the Kids in their victory were their 4 E-Mags and 1 Automag RT, all of which are equipped with AGD's Lvl 10 Low Impact Bolt upgrade kit. The winners went through 15 cases of paint--without a single break.

The Kids would like to personally thank Tom Kaye, Airgun Designs, Gino Postorivo, National Paintball Supply, and Extreme Rage for their ongoing support in their efforts.
http://www.airgun.com/news/congratskids.shtml


Tournaments!

Wisconsin's largest indoor paintball facility, at over 59,000 sq. ft.
The Largest Indoor field east of the Rockies. Located just North West of Milwaukee on Highway 45.

Feb. 2nd, 2003
Amateur 5 Man Tourney

Top 4 Teams - Round Robin Finals - Results

1st Place
AGD KIDS - $1450 Cash Prize
http://bfgpaintball.com/tourneyfile/5man02022003.htm



Wisconsin's largest indoor paintball facility, at over 59,000 sq. ft.
The Largest Indoor field between the Appalachian Mountains and the Rockies. Located just North West of Milwaukee on Highway 45.

SUNDAY December 1st 2002
3 Man Tourney

AGD Kids 1st Place $560.00
http://bfgpaintball.com/tourneyfile/3man12012002.htm


2003 International Amateur Open
Tournament Results
5 Player Amateur
1st Place - Tippman Effect
2nd Place - Ground Fire
3rd Place - Aruba Madness
4th Place - AGD Kids
http://www.teameffortevents.com/iao/site/press_releases/final_scoring_03.html

[fire1811]

ahh jr
welcome to AO

later
curt

[trixx75]

Yeah, that True rookie team could have gotten 1st place if the AGD Kidz didn't take it, what if you were that rookie team and you placed second and found out that the 1st place team is an amateur team that just took away your shockers. I would be pretty pissed.

And as I recall, CCP tournaments you only get prizes for 1st place, second doesn't get you squat.

I personally don't really care about this but I find this to be a very funny thread to read.

[LaW]

Originally posted by trixx75
Well, I'm kinda confused on what exactly is defined as they are playing in their division???

I did a small search on the AGD Kids and found a number of Amateur tournaments that they play in and place in 1st place or top 5. Here are a few with links to the sites. And from what I'm looking at they are sponsored by AGD in some way unless I'm wrong on that part, but someone can clear that up.

Another question I have, is AGD Pride a part of AGD kids?

Some sites with their Amateur standings and other novice tournaments they have gone to as well.

Feb 2003: Congratulations to AGD KIDS!
Toronto Canada, Skydome, Skyball

Airgun Designs team, the AGD Kids, won First Place in this years Skyball event. Read on for details!
Airgun Designs (AGD) congratulates the AGD Kids on their victorious trip to Canada. All their hard work, training, and dedication paid off as they took 1st Place in the Amateur Division at this year's Skyball 5-Man tournament. The Kids' roster consists of:

Jay Smith
Andy Nolen
Mark "Lunchbox" Sommer
Chance Celeste
Jason "Chester" Manchester

Aiding the Kids in their victory were their 4 E-Mags and 1 Automag RT, all of which are equipped with AGD's Lvl 10 Low Impact Bolt upgrade kit. The winners went through 15 cases of paint--without a single break.

The Kids would like to personally thank Tom Kaye, Airgun Designs, Gino Postorivo, National Paintball Supply, and Extreme Rage for their ongoing support in their efforts.
http://www.airgun.com/news/congratskids.shtml


Tournaments!

Wisconsin's largest indoor paintball facility, at over 59,000 sq. ft.
The Largest Indoor field east of the Rockies. Located just North West of Milwaukee on Highway 45.

Feb. 2nd, 2003
Amateur 5 Man Tourney

Top 4 Teams - Round Robin Finals - Results

1st Place
AGD KIDS - $1450 Cash Prize
http://bfgpaintball.com/tourneyfile/5man02022003.htm



Wisconsin's largest indoor paintball facility, at over 59,000 sq. ft.
The Largest Indoor field between the Appalachian Mountains and the Rockies. Located just North West of Milwaukee on Highway 45.

SUNDAY December 1st 2002
3 Man Tourney

AGD Kids 1st Place $560.00
http://bfgpaintball.com/tourneyfile/3man12012002.htm


2003 International Amateur Open
Tournament Results
5 Player Amateur
1st Place - Tippman Effect
2nd Place - Ground Fire
3rd Place - Aruba Madness
4th Place - AGD Kids
http://www.teameffortevents.com/iao/site/press_releases/final_scoring_03.html


Well Skyball and IAO do not affect classification. Some argue that it should but at the time it does nothing. Local tournaments like the ones at BFG listed above also have no affect on their "team" classification. AGD pride and AGD kids are two completely seperate teams.

[trixx75]

If that is the case and it is true, then I have no issues. That is the reason why I asked and did some search on what tournaments they do attend.

But people on here that are complaining about the issue do have some valid point considering that if you were a rookie/novice team and are not aware about what your going against you might not have a chance at all in a tournament.

But like I said I personally don't care, just something I wanted to know for my own peace of mind.

Something to be aware of if others or myself might want to go to a tournament with big prizes.

But in my opinion, if you go to an amateur tournament on a number of occasions you should be classified as stepping up to the amateur division. regardless if it doesn't count or not.

Its almost like saying you are holding a young guns tournament but because your over a certain age we'll twist the rules for you because the other tournments don't count or something to that matter.

[Booya39]

Originally posted by trixx75
And as I recall, CCP tournaments you only get prizes for 1st place, second doesn't get you squat.
Ok, get ready to look stupid...

2nd place got PE nitrogen systems
3rd place got freak barrels

Well you obviously didn't do your homework on the subject before making up lies. I guess that makes everything else you said and your opinions look pretty weak.

[Booya39]

Originally posted by trixx75
Something to be aware of if others or myself might want to go to a tournament with big prizes.
Here's an idea: just don't go to any tournaments where they have prizes... because other teams might be there. And we can alllll see from your posts how much you hate having to actually earn prizes.


Originally posted by trixx75
Its almost like saying you are holding a young guns tournament but because your over a certain age we'll twist the rules for you because the other tournments don't count or something to that matter.
That was just stupid! Age is pretty easy to determine. Classification is a little more difficult. Either way, that was sure a stretch to even consider comparing those 2 matters.

[CoolGSak]

Exactly what "lies" has Trixx made up Booya? He said "as I recall", he did not say that he was sure of CCP's tournament prize distribution method. He may have played in a tourney there years ago where only 1st got prizes.

And I also think his opinions look pretty strong, he has done more research and gotten more links than ANYONE else who has posted on this thread...

[trixx75]

When I referred to 1st place prizes I was speaking from my own experience when I went to a tournament at CCP.

No I wasn't sure what the prizes were other then the Shockers.

And most tournaments at CCP with big prizes I only saw them give out 1st place. If they changed that more power, but if I was the team that won second place I would still be pissed about not getting first place.

The Young Guns was just an exaggerated example.

If you say that the IAO and the Skyball doesn't count as far as classification. Well, fine. But that doesn't mean that they shouldn't be playing in the Amateur division if they are placing in such high level of play.

I can understand a team going from Novice to Amateur in the middle of the season. I can understand a Novice going to Amateur then back to Novice because they were not ready for Amateur.

But I can't understand why a team in such like AGD Kids seem to be in a pretty good position as far as an Amateur team according to some of the track record they have showned from past tournaments to go to a local novice tournament to basically take the prizes away from an actual novice team.

Yeah yeah, you'll say they are still classified as a Novice, but reality is they have the skills to be amateur and they basically went for an easy prize they can take and reap the profits.

And as I stated before, do I care, not really, because I wasn't at that tournament, nor would I ever be. For the fact that I know things like this happen.

Its a reality that there will be sandbagging in any type of sport. its the fact that the people running the tournament should be the ones responsible in trying to prevent it anyway possible. Did CCP know the status of the AGD Kids? I personally don't know so I can't say anything about it.

What is the mentality of the AGD Kids as far as entering the tournament? I don't know and can't tell ya.

Only thing I can say is that just from what I heard, RESEARCHED on their team as far as tournaments they attended was that they played on a number of amateur level tournaments.

When I said Researched I researched the AGD Kids on what tournaments they attended, and that was a 2 mins search on Yahoo. I'm search if I really cared I would actually do a full research and possibly gone to the CCP site to find out about the prizes.

But again, this is just my opinion. AGD Kids won the tournament, nothing much to say about that. Am I right or what?

Case closed, unless you guys want to still vent about it. :)

[Booya39]

I just think its easy to go online and bash a field who doesn't have someone monitoring forums who gets to see how whiny people are. If you really have a conern, call George 708.756.1166. I'm sure he'd be more than willing to listen and attempt to change things.

But people don't try to fix the problem, they just cry and cry and cry... ONLINE. Grow up, try to fix the problem and if George says "I don't care what you have to say" then you obviously have every right to go online and throw a fit.

AGD did nothing illegal either. If Chester and the rest of the guys play novice again next year I will personally call them p*ssies, to their faces, and we'll probably laugh about it because they'd know that it's the truth :) but THIS year, they're legal, sorry.

Like I said before, if you feel so strongly then attempt to change the system. Crying us to sleep online doesn't get you far.


and about the IL Captain's Council... You'll need to develop an identical system as Forest ran with the CPSA but make it statewide.

[Scooter/Cootie]

Originally posted by trixx75
Another question I have, is AGD Pride a part of AGD kids?

Pride, Lions, and the Kids are completely seperate teams.

However we do sometimes sub on each other's team if we're short players (ie. Chance and Chester played with us in World Cup and the Kids were on our 10-man roster as well).

The Kids, since they have only 3 permemant members, often play with the Lions in events larger than 3-man. Hence the reason why you often see Chance and Chester playing with the Kids.

[Scooter/Cootie]

And it's nice to see that the thread has once again devolved to name calling, flaming, and bashing.

Way to keep it civil guys. :rolleyes:

Hopefully one of the mods will close this thread and we can all move on.

[trixx75]

Thats what I'm talking about, I personally don't care because I wasn't even in the tournament so my say is just my opinion nothing else.

I don't know AGD Kids on a personal level or I don't think I have had the chance to play against them.

I wouldn't mind going against a higher calibur teams, hell that is how you get better. But I wouldn't really like playing in the CCP tournaments. From my last few experiences I never liked the reffing.

I almost went to this tournament just to see if anything changed. I just didnt' have the time or the money to do that.

But I just did that search on that team out of curiousity, because I heard the team name but didn't know what they classified themselves in.

But I would think with thier track record, next year they would move up to amateur.

[trixx75]

Originally posted by Scooter/Cootie


Pride, Lions, and the Kids are completely seperate teams.

However we do sometimes sub on each other's team if we're short players (ie. Chance and Chester played with us in World Cup and the Kids were on our 10-man roster as well).

The Kids, since they have only 3 permemant members, often play with the Lions in events larger than 3-man. Hence the reason why you often see Chance and Chester playing with the Kids.

Ok, that explains a few things I was wondering about. I wasn't sure if AGD Pride was the same team or something.

You can tell that I don't go to these forums that much. :)