Electro Logic Vert Automag Frame????????

[Prezents]

I talked to coolhand about this and he asked if I get interest (25 orders) he would looking into doing it.
Electronic Logic Vert Automag Frame
What this would involve is having all the internals of the hyperframe.
Coolhand would have the milling end done and the end user would have to purchase all the other parts from Centerflag Products.
Would you be interested???


http://www.logicpaintball.com/Merchant2/vertframebig.jpg

[KRAKMT]

Great idea! Wish I would have thought of it:D
I am in- only 23 more aoers. But stop distracting Coolhand because I am still waiting for my mechanical frame to arrive.;)

[Prezents]

Post your comments or thoughts here?????:D

[wyn1370]

If he could get it to be a straight drop in of the centerflag parts, I'd go for it.

[Prezents]

That is what I am looking for. If the interest is great enough I would be willing to send him my hyperframe to base this off of.
there is not much that would have to be gotten from centerflag
battery clip $5.00
Micro switch $5.00
PC board $75.00 +/-
Solenoid ????

[spantol]

I'm in. I'll even pre-order.

[logamus]

depending on the costs involved i would go for it. i already have that frame so depending on how much extra the mill work would cost plus the parts. i could prolly be talked into it.

[blakdragon21]

I would totally do it if the price is right. cause I want an electric mag, but hate how the centerflag looks. I would probably keep my mag forever if coolhand could make a grip frame that looks like the one he has with electronics. So is that what you are talking to him about? making a frame and then all I would have to do is buy that frame and then order the electronic stuff from centerflag? whats the ballpark? Make it reasonable and I am in!

[paintballfeign]

im in as long as its under 250 over that i dont think i would be willing to pay even for an amazing frame.

[$tevo]

I do not have an emag, but if it came as a hypermag frame i would take it. I think its an Awesome idea tho

[RoadDawg]

Voted- No way in hell. Reason being I already invested money into a ULE Emag frame. Not gonna bother doing it all over. If it is a hyperframe type thing it's still no due to the fact I prefer ULT mech mags more then Hyper mags.

[ntn4502]

whoops I voted cause I thought it was gonna be for emags...nevermind then

[dyeforever]

first this beautiful frame now plans on making it electro. i think i'm going to faint!

[sneakyhacker420]

i wanna see one made for the e-mag :D

[Aegis]

Is the hyperframe still limited to 13BPS? seems like a fairly small gain for the money. I can get 10 or 11 BPS with my mech mag.

[sneakyhacker420]

new boards are capped @ 20

[wobbles82]

If it were like under 250 (hint hint around 200) I think it would sell like hotcakes. Crap, why doesn't AGD propose an idea such as this? I know they are somewhat considering smaller e-frames (or at least hints "of something in the future") but this would be a great idea in my opinion. You have a quality frame, that is electronic, and no battery pack or anything, leaving you with a nice and tight marker. And if its electro, you could cap it at like 18 and use a Classic Valve, heck, they could even make Aluminum Classic Valves, sell em cheap with E-Frames, no need for fastest recharge rate, just a nice and light e-marker! BRING ON THE REVOLUTION! :D

[dyeforever]

good idea wobble, we should get the main man tom here and hear his thoughts.

[Toranaga]

Depending on how much it costs, I may get it. Even if it is above my price range, I hope you make it :0

[hAppy]

200 would be a nice price!

[Nick O time]

but i don't wanna take out the internals of my hyperframe and transplant them into the logic. i would still buy the electro version though, because i am sure i could find someone willing to put the internals in there.:p imo i think its a great idea.
i just like the idea of putting that and the angel reg(like in ur pic) then maybe an angel gated feed on my mag and having a newb come up to me and asking me "what kind of angel is that".:D :p

so in other words i am very interested. keep me posted about this.

Edit: 200 sounds like alot to me considering its just the frame with no electronics. well actually it may not be, what is the price of the mech frame. compared to the mech frame it may be reasonable but i am not sure. still i would be willing to drop the money just because that is a sweet idea and now i want it.

[Prezents]

Cost on a New HyperFrame is $250.00

Just figure what coolhand has into the present frame

From His site
Code: LVAF
Price: $110.00
Shipping Weight: 2.00 pounds
There might/would be more $$ involved due to mockup and test cuts but I think that the frame would be in the ballpark to where after we but new parts from CenterFlag.
I will see if I can get him to post his comments here and it will give us a better idea on the exact $$$

[Nick O time]

cool i am really interested in this now. man i want it. lol

i just need to know a price and when they will be in production(if they will ever be in production that is) i hope they will.

[sneakyhacker420]

i thought you hated space frames nik...

[Nick O time]

but for some reason i just really like the way they look on mags.

[joker4hire]

Originally posted by MicroMiniMe
If I'm not mistaken nicad used an Angel frame with Hyperframe internals on his Dallera prototype. So he might have his own project in development. If he's not, he might be willing to add some insight on the hookups.


Your mistaken :p

that is a mech marker

[Nick O time]

it was a mech marker. it looked like it had some kind of pnuematic assist trigger or sumtin of the sort. i am not quite sure how it all worked but it was sure cool.

but anyways lets get back to the subject. gee golly wiz do i think this electronic logic frame would be swell. how about all of yall chaps out there???:p

[KRAKMT]

Ideally it would be a stock space frame with mounting holes for the hyperframe internals. In that the frame could be used as a mechanical without guts or by installing the guts and removing the trigger rod the frame would be electronic. Thus the price may be slightly more for the added flexibility of going electro but allow the end-user to upgrade, as they desire.
But we would need word from Coolhand if this were feasible.

[chizle97]

keep the hyperframe opperation the same and ide go forit as long as it wasnt too expensive. like 80-100 dollarsw max

[Cryer]

Originally posted by chizle97
... like 80-100 dollarsw max

Yeah, right. The vert frame itself costs more than that. plus you'll have to get all the centerflag parts...

I think its a good idea, tho. (would the board fit in there with enough room for a battery?)

[Nick O time]

what do you guys mean when u say centerflag parts??? i have the hyperframe and that has all of the parts i need right? i am kinda confused. lol:p

i also hope if he does make the frame it will have a cool looking trigger.(i don't like how the hyperframe triggers look, too basic):D

[Cryer]

Originally posted by Nick O time
...i also hope if he does make the frame it will have a cool looking trigger.(i don't like how the hyperframe triggers look, too basic):D

As long as they dont follow too closely to some of the timmi triggers I've seen... I like the Viking Razor blade trigger. Thats nice.

[Prezents]

Here is what it would be:
If Coolhand made the frame......
You would have to purchase the frame from him $110.00+++ the extra milling???

You would have to get the electronic parts from Center Flag Products or if you have a hyperframe just swap them over

I just called Center Flag.
Electronics cost:
battery clip $5.00
Micro switch $5.00
PC board $99.00 (20 bps board)
Solenoid $45.33
This is Joe Blow off the street calling in and asking price.

[Cryer]

Originally posted by Prezents
Here is what it would be:
If Coolhand made the frame......
You would have to purchase the frame from him $110.00+++ the extra milling???

You would have to get the electronic parts from Center Flag Products or if you have a hyperframe just swap them over

I just called Center Flag.
Electronics cost:
battery clip $5.00
Micro switch $5.00
PC board $99.00 (20 bps board)
Solenoid $45.33
This is Joe Blow off the street calling in and asking price.
Also what about the on/off? dont you have to get a special one a those, too? Or is that just for the classic valve?

Maybe someone here could be a centerflag dealer so as to pass on better prices to teh AO masses...?:confused: :eek: :cool:

[blakdragon21]

Please do it coolhand and make it affordable cause I really want to keep my mag. If you do i will for sure keep my mag.

[Aegis]

Ok, guys, this might sound nuts but since it is a custom job from word go - it might be worth looking at the Egrip from Tippmann. I had one on an A5 and it ripped. It has two key advantages: It is from Tippmann, and it is cheap compared to a hyperframe.

It is also a very small package, designed for a sear tripper.

Don't know if the solenoid is strong enough - I might have one in my hands soon, if so I will donate it to the cause for (non-destructive) testing.

I am talking about using the guts (board, solenoid) from the egrip, not adapting the Egrip to a mag.

[Prezents]

The idea of the project is to have a very good looking and different trigger frame than anything else that is on the market.
Coolhand is making a great unique frame at a great price.
If he was able to add the hyper frame electronics this will add more function to it.
I would not like to see another slap on trigger frame that looks Blan (A5 frame).
I know that price is an issue for most of us, but look at the amount of money that we have already put into our Mags.
This would be another step for us to creating our own unique toy :D

[Nick O time]

have you talked to him? is he thinking about it? i must know.:p lol

[Crimson_Turkey]

I'd definitly suggest A-5 E-grip internals. Tippmann rules. And it's a hell of alot cheaper.

[ExtremeODD]

if i had a mag, i would order... but alas i do not... sorry

[coolcatpete]

I will get one for sure
Peter

[Toranaga]

In responce to Crimson_Turkey:
Does the e-grip allow you to set the dwell?
That is one of the reasons to get the centerflag one.

[Aegis]

I'll answer about the egrip -

No dwell settings. You can set firing mode only. one shot, burst, turbo, auto, maybe something else I forgot. There is also a ROF adjustment. The A5 is a sear tripper, so dwell is not really an issue. They are basically chop-proof, with the cyclone feed. It is either ready to fire, or not.

I had and A5 before tuning in to the mag world, and I can tell you that an A5 in turbo mode just flat rips.

[Nick O time]

is it even possible for A5 internals(in the grip frame that is) to operate a mag? i mean does the A5 contain all the necisary parts to even correctly/properly fire a mag? also there is no reason to have any of those modes unless you play woods ball or scenario. but i guess if you just want to mess around, i personally never have used my burst modes on my hyper and i don't think i ever will. i dunno though do you really need those modes?

[Aegis]

No, you don't need those modes. Turbo is fun, but I am a semi auto guy. Just reporting on what it does.

I just brought it up for these reasons:

Cheap

Tippmann Support

Micro switch activated

Electric solenoid trip

Cheap

Small size

Cheap


The big question would be does the solenoid have the guts to trip a mag sear.

[Big'n slo]

With the ULT on/off I'm sure it would fire the mag, especially a classic valve.

I'd be in for electro ready vert frame

[speedyejl]

Can we see some feedback from Logic?

[Digits]

ok.. sounds nice.. but why would you have to use hyperframe internals?

I don't think it would matter that much about what internals you used as long as the sear tripper worked right.

[Snapps]

If this becomes reality, I'm all for it...

[Prezents]

Center flag has a system that works, why would you want to try and change it to something that you do not know if it will work with a mag sear.

[hostage]

heh...funny you mention this, cause a friend and I are going to make a revolutionary electronic vertical automag grip frame, looks like I have some good compoition. :)
-Hostage

[Crimson_Turkey]

I'd think it would have the power to operate a mag, it can push the A-5's sear.

[Aegis]

I love this idea, can't stop thinking of alternatives. The idea of a morlock activating an air solenoid from a timmy with a little ram to trip the sear.... ooooohhh.

[chris007]

yes,and it's about time someone is doing this!:D

[logamus]

just curious but there are two pages of comments and not one from CoolHand. is this something that is in serious discussion or just a random thought thrown out there?

[Creative Mayhem]

I'm in for one... heck, I'll even buy one if it's just mech like the min you have pictured at the top.:D That thang just looks awesome!

[speedyejl]

buy one then

http://www.logicpaintball.com/

[logamus]

cm, they are awesome. i promise you that.

[Snapps]

......drop.....dead.....sexy.....

[KRAKMT]

The first post was in regards to an actual email from Coolhand. And as I eagerly await a mechanical grip frame I note that in the dealer’s forum he stated that he has been ill. That and the first batch came back from anno with spots. Hope Ryan didn't infect his grip-frames.

[CoolHand]

Now Now

Its not nice to pick on people with the plague.

They might just give you a hug. :eek:

The first batch of frames will go out tomorrow.

If there is enough interest to warrant the investment of time to redesign the current frame to accept the CF internals, I will do it.

Click Here to get on the pre-order list. ([email protected])

The deposit will be the same as the others ($25), but won't be collected until the list has at least 25 names on it.

If I could get 25 people to commit, then it would be worth my while.

Hope to work on this project for you guys.

[Evil1]

Could that gr[p go on an RTP w/ ULT?

[Digits]

I might just have to put that down payment.. How much do you think the frame will cost in the end?

[TheTramp]

I've got a Spyder Hyper-Frame. Would I be able to use the internals from it (or at least most of them)?

If so, I'd be very interested in this idea.

[paintballfeign]

i dont want to commit until i know how much it cost and does the cost include the hyperframe intenals or is it just the frame milled out to accept them.

[TheAmazingJelloMag]

I woul definately buy it if i had the money

[greg]

ims till waitin on a price

[CoolHand]

Originally posted by greg
ims till waitin on a price

Its been posted before.

Centerflag parts - $154.33

For my part, I will put the top end of the price scale at $130. I will make them cheaper if I can.

But you've got to remember, we can't just grab a number out of the air and make it the gospel. Well, actually we can, but it would end up being a larger number than is absolutely must be, in order for us to be sure that we won't loose our butts in the deal.

Above is the estimate, take it for what it is. It will get you to the ball park, but you need to wait for the final design and price before pronouncing it too expensive. That number ($284.33) is the highest that it can go, using a high estimate for the frame, and retail prices for the electronics. If these become a reality I will become a Centerflag dealer and sell everything as one kit, or just the frame for the current Hyperframe owners.

The biggest obstacle right now is the fact that I am swamped.

I've got work comming out my ears, which is a good thing, don't get me wrong, just don't expect a lightening quick redesign. There just isn't enough time for the zero degrees of seperation kind of engineering you all are used to seeing from me.

When I get some parts, I will do my best to cram them into the frame in a timely manner.

My go/no-go decision will be based on how many people will put up and actually get on the list. So far, I've got one email - just one. 24 more to go, quite literally.

Thank you for your interest.

[blakdragon21]

What about warrantty? Will this void any agd warrenty? If we have problem would we send or ask centerflag or you? So basically this will be a centerflag feel trigger frame, but with your dope design. I just might have to keep my mag now and be put on the list, just need more info. thanks

[CoolHand]

I'll pretty much guarantee that they will void your warranty.

As for service, if the frame breaks in half - talk to me. Otherwise, Centerflag or somebody around AO would be your best bet, as I have never even seen one of these things before.

But you gotta look at it from our points of view.

AGD - You are using a product that we didn't design to make our product do things it was not designed to do. No warranty for you.

Me - I am designing a product, to use the guts of a product that I didn't design, to make another product that I didn't design, function in a manner other than which it was designed to. All I can say for sure is that my alum won't foul up the works. Beyond that you are on your own.

Center Flag - You guys took the guts out of our frame, and had another made to hold them which we didn't design, and that does not mount them in the way that we designed them to be mounted. No warranty for you.

(Please Note: Those are not direct quotes from either AGD or CF, just educated guesses about their responses.)

I'm not gonna assemble them either, unless specifically asked to. I'll supply all the parts, but I am a little hesitant to sell them fully assembled for some reason.

When I come up with a Logical (Ah Ah Pun :p ) explaination on not selling them fully assembled, I will let you all in on it.

[TheTramp]

Originally posted by TheTramp
I've got a Spyder Hyper-Frame. Would I be able to use the internals from it (or at least most of them)?



anyone?

[badtoyz]

Might it be better to use a morlock board , noid , and microswitch and desine a sear to work for a vert frame then try to use one for a 45 frame ?

[Big'n slo]

Originally posted by TheTramp


anyone?


TheTramp,

From This thread (http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=114675)


Originally posted by Hostage

hyperframe booyaahs and all spyderframes have the same internals, other than different boards and software
-Doron


Also, Coolhand I email'd ya.

[TheTramp]

Rats, that'd mean I'd have to get a new board as well as the frame. The price just jumped $100 for me. That lowers the chances I'd get the frame. Well, perhaps I CoolHand will be able to get us a deal on the Hyperframe parts.

[melster]

When are we going to hear a yea or nay? I'm holding off buying the logic vert frame cuz I'm waiting to heare about this.

If there's a trade in program for logic vert owners, I'd buy the logic vert first, then upgrade to the electo later. ;)

Btw, feel free to use my name for it: "ElectroLogic(tm)"

:)

[Athius]

Originally posted by wobbles82
If it were like under 250 (hint hint around 200) I think it would sell like hotcakes. Crap, why doesn't AGD propose an idea such as this? I know they are somewhat considering smaller e-frames (or at least hints "of something in the future") but this would be a great idea in my opinion. You have a quality frame, that is electronic, and no battery pack or anything, leaving you with a nice and tight marker. And if its electro, you could cap it at like 18 and use a Classic Valve, heck, they could even make Aluminum Classic Valves, sell em cheap with E-Frames, no need for fastest recharge rate, just a nice and light e-marker! BRING ON THE REVOLUTION! :D

I think AGD was gonna make a electronic grip frame for mech automags users that cannot buy a e-mag. But they dropp the idea because of the Smart Parts patent crap and made the ULT. I think that this what it happened cuz Tom in one thread about the SP patent crap he said "That's why we made the ULT"

[CoolHand]

Originally posted by melster
When are we going to hear a yea or nay? I'm holding off buying the logic vert frame cuz I'm waiting to heare about this.

If there's a trade in program for logic vert owners, I'd buy the logic vert first, then upgrade to the electo later. ;)

Btw, feel free to use my name for it: "ElectroLogic(tm)"

:)

I'll use that name. :D

There are 6 guys on the preorder list now. 19 more before we are a GO.

Another word on timing here as well. The longer I look at the huge pile of work I have here, the more it looks like this project will have to wait until after Christmas. I've been workin the crap out of it, and my machine needs maintainance, so the week of Dec 16th it is coming apart for some much needed TLC. This means that week is a bust, no machining for me. Then Christmas, New Years, blah - all of a sudden its the third week of January.

Later all.

[melster]

Originally posted by CoolHand

Dec 16th it is coming apart for some much needed TLC. This means that week is a bust, no machining for me.


Wow. Good thing I broke down and placed an order for a black frame just now then. :D

Do you throw in the screws for the grips? I found some grips somewhere else in the color I wanted.

[logamus]

there are 7 on the list now ryan. :)

[greg]

yes im stupid but.... just wondering... so it will be 130 not including the frame??? or including the frame??? if its includin the frame that is a damng ood deal and i would jump all over that

[TheTramp]

The $130 was a possible price for the frame alone. You would have to get the internals either from a Hyperframe you aready have or from Center Flag.

CoolHand said he might become a Center Flag dealer and thus be able to get us the internals at the same time as the frame.

If he does he might be able to give us a little better price than we could get from Center Flag directly I would think.

[greg]

... that would be shweet ill ahv eto keep informed

[$tevo]

before i put my name on the list. this is for classics and RTs right? What boards will be in them? and if the price is around the estimate it sounds pretty good.

[JoyInTheMadness]

Yes I would.

[[email protected]]

Hey if i buy the grips and all on the frame does it come with a trigger i really am not convinced to buy one of these frames for 110 its overpriced and then i have to buy the grips for 30 bucks are they made of gold or something. Then the itelliframe cost the same price with nickel frames and everything for 110. Man someone was needs to include the grips with it or lower the price to at least 90.

[greg]

am i the only one that thinks clemens should shut up???

[phantomhitman]

as i have read this thread people are asking the same questions over and over. i am not coolhand, and i am not centerflag, but here is more or less what it is.

coolhand-he will sell the frame (just the frame, no interenals)
around $130

centerflag-they will sell you the board-which is 20bps, the microswitch, battery pack, and solenoid
around $160-$180

agd-has nothing to do with either and will not help you out in any way if somthing messes up
free of charge :D

total price of a working logic hyper frame-around $310

I have to say one thing about centerflag though, they have given about 5 people on this forum different price quotes for the same 20bps board. someone told me they were $75 so I called centerflag to order one. they told me the price is $120 now. then someone on here said they are now $100, and I have also read that they were told $90. I do not know why centerflag is giving different prices out for the same board, but someone really needs to clear that issue up. I mean if this happens to all of the parts needed it could jack up the price of the complete frame a lot. If you expect to pay $75 and end having to pay $120 that could not only piss you off, but could also make you wait a while longer to save up the extra money.
I am definatly in on this, I hope it happens.

[Barfly]

Ok, I this might be kind of dumb, but this does void the warranty on the valve or not? Also, installing the centerflag parts is just plug and play no sodering, or could we just order them with the parts installed? Thanks

Another question does the reactiviness of the rt valve help or does it perform the same as AIR valve?

[Prezents]

the hyper frame will not void your warranty, intalling the hyper frame is very simple,
1) remove your on/off assembly
2) remove the old on/off pin and replace with the new one from centerflag.
3) replace the on assembly
4) remove the trigger rod from the sear assembly.
5) replace sear
6) reassemble automag and play.
The hyper frame is very easy to install and uninstall.

[JoyInTheMadness]

So CoolHand will these have the new 20bps and semi-auto only boards that are currently being put in new Hyper-Frames correct?

And may I suggest you use the trigger-switch from www.paintballtrader.com

http://www.paintballtrader.com/xcart2/customer/product.php?productid=16215&cat=249&page=1&xid=a9f0492c181fce1e094f5b0b5c81b5e9

[Big'n slo]

For those anxiously awaiting the word on these new frames, a tidbit from centerflag about the new boards:


Rise in price of boards for HyperFrame

Hello everyone. The price for the boards is $99. Period. Our HyperFrame technician had a price sheet that was incorrect. The $99 is for any electronic board that we carry. We currently have a semi-auto only that is capped at 20bps, and we have a multi-mode board that has semi, burst, and full auto functions that is also capped at 20bps. The price has gone up from $75 because our costs for these boards has gone up tremondously, and are also in VERY short supply right now. We have also discontinued our trade-in program for old HyperFrame boards.

Regarding the used HyperFrame that you purchased, I would send it in to have it repaired instead of just having the whole board replaced. You may just have a bad battery cable which is MUCH cheaper to replace than the whole board!

Sammo
The Marketing Guy for CenterFlag Paintball Products

[magman234]

i am all for it as long as it is less then 400 and someone else can install the electronics for me.

[phantomhitman]

ok thanks for clearing the price info up whoever did that. I am in on the electro logic frame. just a question, but why would someone not get the board that has all of the features on it? i mean for the same price you can get a board that is just as fast for the same price but a lot more features. :confused:

[speedyejl]

Tournaments

[melster]

Hopefully, CH will design it so that he can re-mill the existing vert frame for the electro.

That way we can just pay a nominal fee to get the vert frame redone to be electro compatible.

[speedyejl]

Yea, Coolhand will you be able to retrofit current logic frames for the hyperframe parts?

[magman234]

would we have to ship them back to you or would they work with electros as is. thanks

[Barfly]

Ok, i have another question, will this be easily walkable with stock rt pro valve?

[Joni]

Is there any possibility you might be able to ship a frame to Sweden if you start making them? That would be great, and if you would, I'll start saving up now =). (Allready saving up for a X-valve and an ULE-body...phew, there goes the money:D)

[LoveMyMagMoreThanYou]

I love this frame and the idea of having an electro version. If I had the money to put down on it I would. When I find a new job, I will do so.

[yeahthatsme]

maybe if it came with one of those supa light trigger switches(dont recall who makes them at the moment...)

[Nick O time]

u should make packages, like:
Package A= Basic Frame no electronics

Package B= Basic Frame with Electronics(don't know if you can install but i thought you said it might violate something)

Package C= Basic Frame and 20BPS board of persons choice or Basic Frame and Microswitch(of coarse with proper amount of money taken out if they order it with microswitch)

Package D= Basic Frame and 20BPS board and microswitch or whatever

also we asked if you would be making a special trigger for the 90 frame in a pervious post i am pretty sure. i don't recall ever hearing an answere, so are you going to be making custom triggers with the hyperframe? i for one would not mind paying the extra money for one,maybe just a basic blade trigger that resembles the mamba blade trigger because imo those just look super nice.

[lightning rift]

How many do we have on the preorder list thus far coolhand?

[spantol]

I really doubt this is doable. Looking at my vert frame, I don't see any excess meat.


Originally posted by melster
Hopefully, CH will design it so that he can re-mill the existing vert frame for the electro.

That way we can just pay a nominal fee to get the vert frame redone to be electro compatible.

[CoolHand]

Originally posted by lightning rift
How many do we have on the preorder list thus far coolhand?

Seven (7)

That is 18 shy of the jumping off point.

Spantrol is right, if I do this, it is gonna have to be from scratch.

[spantol]

Hmm, yet 26 people claimed they'd buy one in the poll. Could the rest of you kindly e-mail CoolHand? Please? :D

[Prezents]

Some people just do not read,
What I started here was to see if Coolhand would just MILL HIS SPACE FRAME to be able to accept the hyperframe electronics!
This would give him 2 frames to offer.
if you wanted a mechanical frame but would like to go electo down the road you would have the option.
But this option would intail you getting all the electronic parts from Centerflag Products.(Because this is what it would be based off of)
and you have to assemble it.

We want to keep this as simple for coolhand as possible. one less step that he has to do will save us money:D and thats a good thing.

IF (notice large if) he does he would need time to mock this up and do a fewwwwww test's. This is not something that would just be wipped off the lathe.

[Nick O time]

hurry up and sign up i want one now. hmmmm maybe i will just buy the rest of the remaining slots. lol jk;) :p but i want one soon.

[Evil1]

What is the max bps of the grip? Do you (coolhand) have any videos of a prototype in action or something?

[speedyejl]

Originally posted by AGDFlash
What is the max bps of the grip? Do you (coolhand) have any videos of a prototype in action or something?

Try reading the thread

[LudavicoSoldier]

Put me down for one. I was going to build a Morlock Y-Grip EMag, but this seems much more fesable. So one frame in Gloss Black please.

[Barfly]

yes I want one too sign me up.

[phantomhitman]

for those poeple in the last few threads that say I WANT ONE please go back a page or 2 and find cool hands email link. sending him an email will add names to the list that WILL buy a frame. the faster that list fills up the faster this will happen. thanks

[Lefty]

I already own a hyperframe. If you would just sell me a frame so I can install the electronics I would buy it.

[TheTramp]

Originally posted by Lefty
I already own a hyperframe. If you would just sell me a frame so I can install the electronics I would buy it.

This is exactly what the proposed plan invisions.

[Barfly]

anybody know how many before we have 25 people on the list?

[phantomhitman]

Originally posted by Barfly
anybody know how many before we have 25 people on the list?

well a few posts up coolhand wrote 7. then you and someone else said they are in, so that is 9. if i am not on the list then count me in and that is 10. there is an email address that you have to send your name to gentlemen. pleaes go back a page or 2 to look for it in cool hands post. email him there saying you would buy it, thanks. i want this thing sooo bad.

[Barfly]

yeah I have emailed coolhand, but haven't got a response, yet.

[CoolHand]

Originally posted by Barfly
yeah I have emailed coolhand, but haven't got a response, yet.

I just collect the emails and refer to them as my preorder list.

I don't have time to carry on an email conversation with everyone who opts in.

I'm not trying to be rude, I'm just stating the facts.

I am behind in most area's of production, so taking on another project before I am caught up would be unwise to say the least.

There are 12 emails in the holding tank, so you guys are half way there.

When I get the time to do the design, I will send out a mass email to everyone on the list, asking for a deposit.

That's how it will go down.

Later all.

[LudavicoSoldier]

Sweet! Keep us updated! And people, BUY A FRAME!! :D

[Barfly]

ok cool, I wasn't sure if you recieved my email or not.

[phantomhitman]

spread the word everyone!!! i need a elcetro logic frame to ease my soul :D

[Lefty]

I saw that someone on the dealers fourm had lighter microswitches for sale that fit the cf frames. I dont like the swith in my hf so I think I am going to try his switches. I might be better to get a lighter switch for these frames too. Just a thought.

[KRAKMT]

Has everyone who wants an electronic vertical grip emailed Coolhand? You will find his link on page three of this thread. If you are serious email him.

[paint magnet]

Right, and after we drop A5 E frame guts into a frame that not only will void AGD's factory warranty and was never designed to be electronic in the first place, you

1.) Expect it to actually work, and

2.) think you will still have some kind of warranty from Tippmann

Don't get me wrong, this would be awesome if it worked and I would definately buy one but it looks like to me it would be a much larger operation than you think.

[phantomhitman]

where did the a5 e frame come from?! it is not even used in this setup. :confused: A centerflag board and internals is used. i hope that straightens things out for you.

[LudavicoSoldier]

Early in the thread someone mentioned the possibility of trying to use A-5 E-Frame guts as an alternative to Hyperframe/EMag guts. Was a purely hypothical suggestion. The Logic frame will use Hyperframe guts. BUY ONE!!!

[Prezents]

Why do we want to try and adapt something that we do not even know if it will work????
We know that the hyperframe will work on a mag!!! I have two to prove this point.
No A-5 e-grips.
1) where would the noid go
2) where would the battery go
3) they are frigging ugly
4) AGD has one of the best warranty's on the market.
5) the hyperframe is one of the best aftermarket upgrades you can do to a mag to make electronic

[JoyInTheMadness]

Can I have mine now

please

I want it!

I'll have punisher do it if you won't :)

[CoolHand]

Originally posted by JoyInTheMadness
Can I have mine now

please

I want it!

I'll have punisher do it if you won't :)

Damn, we're getting pushy now. :D

OK, I'll commit.

I'll get a guy started on this in a day or two.

I am not going to give a definite date when these will be available, cause that always bites me in the butt. We will get them into production as soon as we can.

All the guys on the preorder list will be getting an email from me about their deposits before too long.

Later all. :cool:

[JoyInTheMadness]

I just creamed my pants... bless you sir, BLESS YOU!

[LudavicoSoldier]

Bless you indeed! Happy Holidays as well! /me is awaiting his email.

[phantomhitman]

YES!!!!!!! YES!!!!!!! YES!!!!!!! YES!!!!!!! YES!!!!!!! YES!!!!!!! YES!!!!!!! YES!!!!!!! YES!!!!!!! YES!!!!!!! YES!!!!!!! YES!!!!!!! YES!!!!!!! YES!!!!!!! YES!!!!!!! YES!!!!!!! YES!!!!!!! YES!!!!!!! YES!!!!!!! YES!!!!!!! YES!!!!!!! YES!!!!!!! YES!!!!!!! YES!!!!!!! YES!!!!!!!


THANK YOU SO MUCH!!! I WILL PAY YOU ASAP!!!!!

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

[No Excuse]

Coolhand i realise we hardly know eachother, but will you marry me?

(I just bought an inteliframe but now I am selling my inteliframe and saving up for this)
Proper Bo I Tell Thee


Originally posted by CoolHand



OK, I'll commit.

I'll get a guy started on this in a day or two.

I am not going to give a definite date when these will be available, cause that always bites me in the butt. We will get them into production as soon as we can.

All the guys on the preorder list will be getting an email from me about their deposits before too long.

Later all. :cool:

[Lefty]

cant wait to see it.

[Prezents]

Coolhand.
I know this will be a good thing for you and us.
If you need a hyperframe to go off of let me know. I will send you one that I have on my second mag.
:D :D :D :D :D :D

[Nick O time]

Coolhand you rule. You are a true pimp. lol:p ;)

[CoolHand]

Originally posted by Nick O time
Coolhand you rule. You are a true pimp. lol:p ;)

Why Thank You.

/me - Takes a bow.

:D

[frost]

now dont flame me if tons of people have ask this but how much will this cost or do we not know yet cuz im not about to read every page to see if it is sorry again i just wanna know as soon as i know how much ill email coolhand to put me down but im inless i know a price


sorry if this is a on going this with people asking

[phantomhitman]

it was only back 2 pages :rolleyes: jk

here is what you are looking at (i typed this in an earlier post)

i am not coolhand, and i am not centerflag, but here is more or less what it is.

coolhand-he will sell the frame (just the frame, no interenals)
around $130

centerflag-they will sell you the board-which is 20bps, the microswitch, battery pack, and solenoid
around $160-$180

agd-has nothing to do with either and will not help you out in any way if somthing messes up
free of charge

total price of a working logic hyper frame-around $310

now save up your pennies :D

[frost]

if we send in our hyper will they put everything inside the logic

[CoolHand]

Originally posted by frost
if we send in our hyper will they put everything inside the logic

I would imagine that we could muster a service to transplant your existing HyperFrame guts into your spankin' new Logic vert frame.

Thank you for your interest.

[Nick O time]

that is awsome because if i had to transport all the guts into the one i bought i would end up screwing it up some how. :p

[Prezents]

As of yesterday My hyperframed mag - vavle went on a ups ride to see Logic Paintball.:D
Thank all of you that have posted and pushed to see this happen!!! This is going to be a truly great frame.
I have played with his regular space frame, and wow. I can only imagine with the hyper internals



Now what will he call it???

HyperSpace Frame
Space E-Frame
Logic Frame
Space Logic

Ideas?????

[Nick O time]

LE Grip(Logic Electronic Grip) or LE Frame same difference essentially.
meh ill try harder later lol.:p

More Ideas:
LE 90
E 90
LEF(Logic Electronic Frame) pronounced(sp) leaf
i dunno i can't think right now.

[TheTramp]

"Logic Hyper" frame sounds good to me. Of course using the term "hyper" might push the copyright so "E-Logic" frame might be a better name.

[Nick O time]

The 90 Degree Frame That is Electronic and Made By a Man With the Screen Name of Logic :D :p lol thats a great one.:)

[No Excuse]

I like the LEF leaf name idea.

When I have enough money to buy one of these I will not be buying a centerflag board, only a solenoid.

The timing issues with a mag do not have to be precise I think I would be able to make up a rudimentary board out of passive components.

I could then modify a 30bps (debounce shmebounce) WAS board when I have the money.

[Joni]

No Excuse, If you do that, it would be great if you could share the schematics. I've been thinking about this myself, but I lack somewhat in the electronics skills. With schematics it would be a piece of cake...

[phantomhitman]

i got it.
ELF
Electronic
Logic
Frame
Now you can share the smae little people with agd. ;)

[No Excuse]

Originally posted by Joni
No Excuse, If you do that, it would be great if you could share the schematics. I've been thinking about this myself, but I lack somewhat in the electronics skills. With schematics it would be a piece of cake...

I will do that.
I think it would cost about £15 max to make the board, which would be capable of 20bps semi. It would have simple adjustments to tune in the timing to your mag but no fancy bells and whistles.

[Lefty]

Originally posted by TheTramp
"E-Logic"

Thats what I was thinking too...lol

[StygShore]

Will we still be able to use the Elogic frame as a mecahnical for those people that have the money for the frame, but have to save up for the guts?

Styg

[CoolHand]

Originally posted by StygShore
Will we still be able to use the Elogic frame as a mecahnical for those people that have the money for the frame, but have to save up for the guts?

Styg

After getting the HyperFrame, and taking it apart, I am going to say that a mech/E version is not possible.

Also, there is no way we can modify the existing mech vert frames to take the electronics.

Its all gonna have to start from scratch.

Later

Thank you for your interest.

[speedyejl]

Just checking whats the status on the few frames you are going to do? Have you made a functional frame yet?

[CoolHand]

Originally posted by speedyejl
Just checking whats the status on the few frames you are going to do? Have you made a functional frame yet?

I just got a HyperFrame to look at three days ago. This is going to be a serious redesign. I would not look for a prototype to be done for at least a month.

Its a long road - One which we have just began to walk.

Later

[phantomhitman]

i can carry you if it helps :D
also, ill buy the prototype if you decide not to make anymore ;)

[$tevo]

StygShore Will we still be able to use the Elogic frame as a mecahnical for those people that have the money for the frame, but have to save up for the guts?

coolhand- what he is saying. will we be able to buy the Elogic frame without the internals incase we do not have enough money at the time. then purchase the internals later on down the time?


or did you answere the question by saying it will not work without the internals?

[CoolHand]

You will be able to buy the finished frame bare, but it will only serve as a paper weight until you buy the internals. There is just no way to make it work with the HyperFrame guts, and in mechanical mode, there are too many things that a opposed to each other.

So, yes you can buy the frame and the guts separately, but the frame will do you no good until you get the inards bought.

[speedyejl]

Also importantly if you decide to produce these will you sell the internals installed or will it be a kit as previously mentioned for legal reasons. Just checking if your thinking changed on this.

[SaS]

perhaps we should wait until after he has something for tests....... then weigh the results if he wants to do it again.

only guessing, but we should wait and see

[Nick O time]

not to make anymore, he should just make enough to fulfill the people who preordered.

[SaS]

oh sorry..... i meant after this batch, then see if it's worth it to do it again

[[email protected]]

Hey I just bought one of these frames and have been waiting for about three weeks there isn't anyone to contact on the page that i bought the frame from. if someone knows a # i can call or email i can contact then please tell me. I'm kinda gettin a little pished off waiting for this company to send me a message saying they got my purchase they still haven't sent me one. The shipping i paided for said it would come in about 3-6 days. Please if anyone has a contact for me please PM me with it or post it down below. If someone from the company is here please send me an email message so i can tell u the Order# THANKS FOR YOUR TIME

[CoolHand]

Originally posted by [email protected]
Hey I just bought one of these frames and have been waiting for about three weeks there isn't anyone to contact on the page that i bought the frame from. if someone knows a # i can call or email i can contact then please tell me. I'm kinda gettin a little pished off waiting for this company to send me a message saying they got my purchase they still haven't sent me one. The shipping i paided for said it would come in about 3-6 days. Please if anyone has a contact for me please PM me with it or post it down below. If someone from the company is here please send me an email message so i can tell u the Order# THANKS FOR YOUR TIME

Sir,
There is no way you bought one of these frames, as I have not even finished developing them yet. No one has even put money down on their preorders yet, that is how far from done I am. I think you may be looking for Centerflag, not Logic Paintball.

I hope this helps.

[atm743]

i am thinking about it but it must have the 20bps board in it. but if it has that to depends on the $ because i whould jest buy a e-mag if it will be a lot of $ for it i whould jest but a e-mag.

[melster]

wow. mr. clemens is even more antsy about his frame than i am. :D

[[email protected]]

Hey dude are u talkin about the logic vert automag frame that logic parts says there sellin on there page.

[speedyejl]

Its sounds like he ordered a mech frame, and hasn't gotten it yet.

[CoolHand]

All the mech frames that are owed are at ano right now. When they get back, I will make sure they go out as soon as humanly possible.

I don't have an order here from anyone named Clemmens.

Click the link in my sig to send me an email, so we can straighten this out.

Thank you.

[Iron Mag13]

Ok i LOVE the idea. just a few qustions. 1.Will it be a pacage of all the guts and the frame(i would be able to buy at lest 400 dollers highest id go) 2.can u still buy the x valve and the ULT??

Thanks
Iron

[SaS]

let's see if i get this right the first time....

-won't come as a package(i could be wrong on this if it's been changed, or will change)
-Centerflag actually recommends ULTs with their hyperframes
-Xvalves will keep up, and then some, with the 20bps boards in those hyperframes(classic valve capping at around 12bps)

edit: Big Post 300:D

[Iron Mag13]

so let me get this straight 1. Maybe 2. Yes 3.Yes

RIGHT??
THanks Iron

[SaS]

yea

as i understand it, for simplicity coolhands wasn't going to do it as a package... but things can change, if they suddenly think that it would be easier on them to package it, then that's a different story

[tyrion2323]

Why don't CoolHand and Hostage team up together to produce an awesome alternative to the Hyperframe? (Not that the hyperframe is bad, it's just nice to have options...)

I suppose that, together, they could probably get this sucker going quickly.

Then again, what do I know? :)

Jacob

[Wang10s]

I agree with tyrion. That is a great idea.

[CoolHand]

OK, here is the latest.

I've gotten started on the frame design, and I am setting up a CenterFlag Dealership, so I can sell these as full kits, and maybe fully assembled units, we'll just have to see about that.

I am sure they will work with XValves, Classics, and ULTs, and the current mech frames I sell cannot be converted over to accept a hyperframe board and guts.

They will have a blade trigger, the lightest microswitch I can lay my hands on, the newest boards from CF, and a magnetic trigger return, if I can make it fit.

I am also going to see if I can have rubber wrap around grips made for them, as I don't really care for the hard plastic ones.

That brings us to the present.

Thanks for hanging in there guys.

[speedyejl]

Yey!! Now don't forget post and pre travel set screws,

[spantol]

CoolHand:

The microswitches that NeroBro is hawking in the Dealer's Forum would be an excellent place to start. I've used one in a normal Hyperframe, and I don't see how a switch that's any lighter could remain tournament legal.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by CoolHand
[B]They will have a blade trigger, the lightest microswitch I can lay my hands on, the newest boards from CF, and a magnetic trigger return, if I can make it fit.

[CoolHand]

Originally posted by speedyejl
Yey!! Now don't forget post and pre travel set screws,

Well, I figured that would go without saying. What self respecting frame with a microswitch wouldn't have pre & post travel stops?

Rest assured, they vill be theer. :D

[Prezents]

Just got one today.
If you need it Coolhand let me know.
It is a world of difference!!!!

[Iron Mag13]

ok so when (and if) i get this on my gun. all i have to do (if its pre asembled (hopfully(cna u put prethases together like this))is screw it on and im done or what do i have to do?? iv never used any kind of elctro gun.

[phantomhitman]

thanks for the latest update coolhand, i was outta town and missed it :eek:
glad to see things progressing and i can pay asap....or earlier :D

[Prezents]

Step 1) Order E-Logic (?? on name of frame)
Step 2) If you have a hyperframe, remove everything If you dont have a hyperframe see step 3
Step 3) Buy all internal parts from CenterFlag Products.
Step 4) Install Hyperframe parts in the E-Logic frame.
Step 5) Install battery
Step 6) Buy Grip covers and install
Step 7) Mount frame on you Mag
Step 8) Turn on power and PLAY!!!!!

[Prezents]

I am the last person that wants to hold you up Coolhand, but how is it coming???

Thanks.

[CoolHand]

Its going, but slowly. We are trying to cram all that stuff from the hyper frame into a smaller space. I know the ver frames look bigger, but they are much smaller on the inside than a 45 style frame. So we've got to do all the cool stuff the CF frame does, but in a smaller package, and in such a way as to not cost us too much extra time on the machine. It is a duzey of a design problem (which are always the most fun to work on), one which is going to take a little bit of puzzling to work out.

We'll get it figured out, but you guys need to settle in for the long haul here. Do not expect to see anything tangible for at least two weeks, most likely three.

[joker4hire]

If worse comes to worst, maybe you can make a vertical type battery (like the emag)?

[coolcatpete]

this sound very cool
Pete

[speedyejl]

For a serious idea which would make this rock anything out there.

WAS Equalizer!!

The Intimidator version would probably be the best choice for space concerns.

The obvious benefits are as follows

Programable Solenoid Dwell - fine tune your E-Logic as to do no damage to your sear

DEBOUNCE!!! Relistically a marker capped at 20bps w.o debounce is really around 16bps, debounce would really let people be able to rip on this thing at it's full potential.

Hopper/Warpfeed Output

Computer Programable

ACE support- this could seriously become the next big thing ACE'd Mags, for $10 worth of parts and 5min on the mill a WAS'd E-Logic could be ACE'd. Trust me ACE is wayyy better than LX, chuffing is annoying as heck

LCD Support-hehe very useful



Relistically this might only cost $20 more than the Hyperframe board but the benefits are huge, Jim might even have better dealer prices. Assuming the damn thing can fit in, this would be insane.

[speedyejl]

Just to add I believe WAS makes smaller Timmy boards for HK since the space in Angels is limited.

[No Excuse]

Can these WAS boards supply enough power to reliably trip the sear of a mag at 20bps?

[speedyejl]

They can handle 1.5amps thats WAY more than enough

[StygShore]

May need to do somehting like the original Freeflow/RACE frames, they had the batteries skinny side up, rather than wide side up. It made the frames a little bit wider than standard to hold the battery, but gave a little more space.


Styg

[CoolHand]

This is intriguing, tell me more.

Specifically who I need to talk to, in order to lay my hands on a sample or really good technical specs.

Hook me up . . . G. :D

[StygShore]

hehe WAS boarded frames attached to a AGD product.... let the flaming begin...

But I guess we do have WGP barrel kits attached to a lot of the markers now, and that never would have happened years ago.

Either the WAS, or if the MORLOCK is still around, that might be an option, I am not sure how that board worked though.


Styg

[No Excuse]

Originally posted by speedyejl
They can handle 1.5amps thats WAY more than enough

1.5amps at what voltage? (i did say power not current :rolleyes: :D )

I only ask because I have heard some hyperframes require a higher voltage battery to function correctly.

[speedyejl]

http://www.wickedairsportz.com/products/eqtim.htm

Most equalizer information on that, you probably could talk to WAS about getting a board or sample or just detailed specs. I just ordered one of your mech frames but if this comes out front I'm so buying one asap.

Anyhow the Timmy boards fit in Angel Space frames so their probably going to fit into your Vert frames. The only focus would be getting the solenoid mounted, along with an led and a slide switch in the rear of the grip frame. Not to forget the microswtich needs to be mounted.

The Morlock board would work, but it lacks debounce and is pretty hard to program through the trigger, costs $120 from Doc, same price as WAS. It also would be sort of cheap feeling since it would require some extra knowledge to use the marker. The WAS board would work flawlessly.


On the note of power, it will handle any voltage you through at it with reason, I've heard up to 36v. Anyhow 9vs work fine, with the ULT this isn't a problem anymore.

[TheTramp]

What about the new drop-in IS boards they're making for Spyders? They have the E-Frame type switch (same as the Centerflag) which is problably easier to mount and they have all the goodies you've been talking about including the adjustable dwell so you could set them to work for Mags.

Plus...they only cost $70.

[No Excuse]

Originally posted by speedyejl
http://www.wickedairsportz.com/products/eqtim.htm

On the note of power, it will handle any voltage you through at it with reason, I've heard up to 36v. Anyhow 9vs work fine, with the ULT this isn't a problem anymore.

Unfortunately I dont have enough Orings for an ULT. :mad:

[Iron Mag13]

Ok im a n33b when it comes to elctro.....i WANT to buy one of these suckers so i got some qustions. 1st you siad later back that u could use a ULT with it....but u also siad that it would have magnets. now if im correct the ULT pushes back your trigger but does the magnet do theat 2????? and were would the space be to put the ULT(now i dont know in regualer elctro's if its in the frame or the main part of the gun. THANKS!

[speedyejl]

The ULT is an on/off pin, this frame has an electronic trigger, there is no user interface to the mechanical return of the ULT. The trigger which activates the solenoid which in turn pulls the sear which activates the on/off (which could be a ULT pin), would be returned by a magnet.

edit: no excuse, most hyperframe users are succesfully using normal 9v batteries without ULTs

[CoolHand]

Originally posted by Iron Mag13
Ok im a n33b when it comes to elctro.....i WANT to buy one of these suckers so i got some qustions. 1st you siad later back that u could use a ULT with it....but u also siad that it would have magnets. now if im correct the ULT pushes back your trigger but does the magnet do theat 2????? and were would the space be to put the ULT(now i dont know in regualer elctro's if its in the frame or the main part of the gun. THANKS!

The ULT is a modification that you install in your valve, and it does not affect the frame in any way.

Normally the trigger rod pushes the trigger back into place, but when you use the Hyperframe sear, there is no trigger rod, so they just use a really heavy microswitch to push the trigger back out. My goal is to find a switch so light that it could never do that, which is where the magnet comes in.

Thank you for your interest.

[No Excuse]

Coolhand,
I hope you are going to do a light trigger made from CF, lexan or delrin to complement the light microswitch.

[Adrenaline_Junkie]

Im sure this has been asked a million times but about how much will this frame cost if it takes hyperfrmae parts. I was also wondering if you do start making the frame for hyperframe internals if we could send our old hyperframe in and you could swap the internals into the Logic. The only reason i ask that is cus i have no idea how to take everything out of my hyperframe and put it back in.

[sslecyk03]

I first off think this a great idea to begin with, but like someone said before me, if u could find a way to fit a was board in there than it would be awesome. Do u plan on looking into putting a higher end board into the frame or are you sticking with all CF parts. Also if u did use a different board, how would the price be affected?

[Adrenaline_Junkie]

If you can get an electro frame for the mag with a WAS baord that would rock. I would sell my hyperframe in seconds. I like the idea of a magnetic trigger to.

[CoolHand]

Price is still up in the air.

I haven't talked to WAS yet, but I am going to.

I will make the call on what board we use when I have talked to both WAS and CF.

I can swap out the innards if you don' know how.

I think (still up for debate, but reasonably sure) we will be selling these fully assembled, in kit form, and as bare frames.

[sslecyk03]

ok the full kit thing is great, now i dont have to worry about screwing up the assembly. Maybe u can make it an option for what kind of board we would like. The WAS boarded frame would be more expensive and if people want the CF frame then they can get it with a CF board. But yea, if you could put a WAS board in it i would buy that definately.

[Adrenaline_Junkie]

Well if ya do make them for CF internals plan on me buyin one. If ya make a new trigger frame with WAS i'll sell my hyperframe in no time to buy one. I think the idea about the WAS and magnetic trigger would make an awesome mag frame.

[speedyejl]

AWSOME?

Then if there was an air smith who would drill out ULE Bodies for EYEs and rails for the wires people could have ACE'd Mags!!

That would be sooo much bigger than HK'd Speeds!

Imagine this mag

Xvalve
Dallara Body
E-Logic Frame with/ WAS and ACE'd
and some really kick *** anno

It would rock the market beyond anyones belief, and still be cheaper than a ACE'd Speed, DM4 or other big stuff at the moment.

[sslecyk03]

dude thats the exact setup i want, right now i have rt pro with xvalve, ule, and ygrip, im gonna get a dallara, elogic, and then get a dust orange anno. Can u say pimp?

[speedyejl]

I'm telling you and before you send off to anno man you gotta get it drilled for EYES!!!!! It would take a 5min on any drill press and the eyes would cost all of $15 can you say hotness

[sslecyk03]

how bout pimp hotness, a WAS and ACE'd dallara body'd mag only shows up in my wildest dreams. Then i wake up and have to change my pants :p

[PaintballSmurf13]

that frame, was or morlock board, ace,lighter microswitch, V2 chord body, stiffi barrel and other stuff...ultra light,impossible to break paint,smallest profile, super sexy,:D :D that is my dream, now if you'll excuse me, i have to go change my pants now.;) :D
-Ryan F.

[SaS]

anyone tried mixing a ACE, or the like, with a hyperframe?

Unless the programing is setup for something like that i wouldn't think it could without some changes. But if it could, then wouldn't be too much work to do if you wanted, just go to a airsmith who can and good to go. Interesting idea.

[phantomhitman]

why would you need ace or eyes? i thought level 10 was good enough? i am asking, not telling so please do not take it that way.

[No Excuse]

Originally posted by phantomhitman
why would you need ace or eyes? i thought level 10 was good enough? i am asking, not telling so please do not take it that way.

When the lvl x tries to shoot and the ball isnt in the breech yet it "chuffs". This means one of your trigger pulls did not result in a ball fired. Chufing also puts some people of their firing rhythm.

The WAS (if i understand this right) will save up your shots so that if you fire and the ball isnt breached, it will wait untill the eye says it is and then fire. Im talking fractions of a second delay here so its not gonna fire when you dont want it to.


This would give u a few more bps maybe...

There are many more edvantages to the was system over the centerflag, such as debounce, more frequent trigger checking etc which all add up to make it the best board out at the moment.

[speedyejl]

Well said No Excuse,

I also would just like to add that you'll see many high end guns that mechanically prevent chops also do so electronically.

Examples Matrices, Xmag, Impulses

I know on my NYX I was using an EggII which I can easily outshoot. If I turned the eyes off I would end up shooting the same ball on the side almost 5times in some cases. While my NYX still bounced paint, the LX is a little rougher and if you nail a ball 5times in a row or more its gonna burst.

[Prezents]

Well we all wanted this to happen,
Coolhand said to me that he would not even start this project till he has 25 people that have made a deposite.
Well he has started, so we need to start.
I have sent him $$$ for my deposite.
It takes time and money to make this frame.
Prezents

[CoolHand]

Lets not go too far yet.

I can float this for a while yet, and I'd just as soon not take money for them yet, in case this whole deal goes south. :eek:

Not saying that its gonna, but just in case. ;)

I'll start a preorder thread when I'm ready to collect up some money.

Thanks for the initiative though. :D

[BajaBoy]

coolhand, if this frame goes threw... you have my personal word.. im Selling the ace'd emag for this gun. Also you gotta make some Kickass triggers for it

[sslecyk03]

yes, please let this deal go through. And i know its hard to say at this point in the project but, if it goes through, approximately how long do u think it will be before u start to begin putting these out on the market. And have u talked with WAS yet?

[phantomhitman]

thanks for the info no excuse. coolhand, i can wait patiently.....but i do not know about a couple of ben franklins though :D i hope you the best on this project, because it will be a close race between me and prezents to see who gets one first ;)

[CoolHand]

I have spoken to WAS, and they were amicable with the arrangement, so we will be moving forward with their board as the foremost choice.

I am still not 100% sure of which model we will be using, as space is a concern, as well as the question of whether or not they can even actuate that big solenoid.

Does anyone here know how many amps the CF solenoid draws when fired?

This will make a big difference as to whether we can use the WAS board or not.

I still don't have an estimated release date, as we are just begining the development process.

That's the latest.

[sslecyk03]

someone give him that info so we can speed up the process a bit.

[speedyejl]

I'm not sure but WAS claims their board can handle 1.5amps which would more than cover the solenoid since its most likely down in miliamps, but I'm not sure if I'm missing a technical aspect here.

[CoolHand]

The WAS boards are rated at 1.5A continous, and 5A startup (short burst). The solenoid I have reads 1.2 Ohms of resistance. The biggest question is what voltage goes from the board to the solenoid? I measured 1.5 volts at the terminals with no solenoid hooked up (couldn't get a reading with it hooked up), but that is with no load. If it really only runs at 1.5V, then the 'noid (I love that :D ) only requires 1.25A, and we are golden. However, if it really uses 9V, and the resistance is constant (which it is), then it will draw 7.5A, and we are boned.

So unless I am missing something, or my circuit theory is way off, or I am full of crap (which is possible, and of the three, the most plausable :) ), we need to know the rated draw of the solenoid in amps, or at the very minimum the rated voltage output at the board, to determine if the WAS board is a reality, or just a pipe dream.

[sslecyk03]

please be a reality, pleaase pleaasseeee

[No Excuse]

The reason I was asking about power a few posts back was because essentially we are using the board for a purpose other than what it was originally designed.

The WAS board is used in timmys and similar guns, which all have a light short 3way which would not require much power.
The battery on my angel will only source 1amp at 6v which is 6watts.

Ive heard of the solenoids in the centerflags getting very hot (this suggests high current and backs up your 1.5v theory)

But i also heard they sometimes needing higher voltage batteries in order to trip the sear reliably.
This suggests more than 1.5v needed.

The only proper measure of voltage is without a current drawing load so your voltage measurement should be correct.

Heres what I get for power ratings.

Centerflag solenoid at 1.5V
1.875watts

Centerflag solenoid at 9V
67.5watts :eek:

WAS board at 1.5V 1.5A
2.25watts

Was board at 9V 1.5A
13.5watts


That suggests to me that at 1.5V it will work.

Coolhand if you measure the current going to the solenoid in the centerflag board when in normal use then it will be clear how much current we need to source.
From this we can work out voltage and power.

[Iron Mag13]

Ok as i said before im a n33b when it comes to elctro so i have a qustion. what are Eyes??? i hear evrybody talking about it. and i had a qustion about ACE but some budy already said it
When the lvl x tries to shoot and the ball isnt in the breech yet it "chuffs". This means one of your trigger pulls did not result in a ball fired. Chufing also puts some people of their firing rhythm. that i think i the was? i dont know so plz answer

[No Excuse]

I have just been looking at batteries and their maximum current and power ratings.

The standard 9V battery will only provide 1 watt at 9V. If a good Duracell is 3 times this then thats 3watts, enough to power our noid at 1.5V but nowhere near the 65watts needed to power it at 9V.


This suggests to me that the noid does only need 1.5v and we are good to go.

However we are still using the board for something it has never been used for and wasnt designed to do.

So we are stepping into the unknown.

[No Excuse]

Originally posted by Iron Mag13
Ok as i said before im a n33b when it comes to elctro so i have a qustion. what are Eyes??? i hear evrybody talking about it. and i had a qustion about ACE but some budy already said it that i think i the was? i dont know so plz answer

The eyes look in the breech so the gun knows if there is a ball ready to fire.

If you fire and the ball is not in the breech yet it will wait for it to drop in and then shoot it for you.

[Iron Mag13]

And all this goes on a classic 68 mag?? Thats kick***!!!!!!!!!

[phantomhitman]

thanks again no excuse and coolhand, i am learning from this building process. :D

[lightning rift]

way back when this thread was only 2 pages long i mentioned aquiring our own 'noids, instead of buying them from CF or whoever. there are many electronics sites that sell all kinds of noids in all shapes, sizes, votages, and have force vs. time graphs for each one. i dont have the time at the moment to go through them all, but it might be less of a hassel to buy our own noids that are much much smaller than the CF ones and are designed to deal with a lesser force. thus, people will be forced to buy the ULT upgrade, but we can work around our means instead of other companies.

just my .02

[CoolHand]

I am inclined to agree with you NoExcuse, as the other choices seem pretty far out there.

The only other thing I am worried about is this giant capacitor that was mounted to the CF board. It is a 10,000 MicroFerad, and is soldered to the board next to the solenoid plug. The board is coated in some kind of thick green gunk. I can't see the traces, so I am not sure where it actually runs to.

The WAS board will not have one, and I am wondering as to the reason for its being there in the first place. The cap, if set inline with the solenoid would prolong the amount of current ran to it, leaving it energized longer than the split second that you pulled the trigger. If you leave the solenoid energized longer, essentially you would have dwell. What if CF didn't want to build the dwell setting into the software, so they just pluck the cap inline with the 'noid (there's that word again :) ), and let that be the non-adjustable dwell setting.

If that is the case, we are good again, 'cause the WAS board has adjustable dwell built into the software. BUT, if the cap is there because the solenoid really does need 65watts to fire, we are once again boned.

Lots of pitfalls on this particular trip ain't there?

[No Excuse]

It is possible that the board is using the caps charge cycle for timing, given that the mag sear does its own timing you would still get consistent velocity from this relatively inaccurate way of timing.

It could also be as you say, wired to the noid to provide a buffer of current and to give an appropriate voltage/time curve for the solenoid.

Or if wired in paralell with the switch it will provide a primitive system of debounce.


Either way theres no reason why we cant have our own capacitor in there if needed for the right curve and a bit more power.

10 millifarad is big but its not gonna make a 3w battery produce 60watts.
It would make your battery die minutes.

The only way to be sure is to get an Ammeter in series with the noid and fire the hyperfame.

If you dont have an ammeter you can do simple tests with fuses to measure peak current.

[No Excuse]

Originally posted by lightning rift
way back when this thread was only 2 pages long i mentioned aquiring our own 'noids, instead of buying them from CF or whoever. there are many electronics sites that sell all kinds of noids in all shapes, sizes, votages, and have force vs. time graphs for each one. i dont have the time at the moment to go through them all, but it might be less of a hassel to buy our own noids that are much much smaller than the CF ones and are designed to deal with a lesser force. thus, people will be forced to buy the ULT upgrade, but we can work around our means instead of other companies.

just my .02


I would expect CF to use the best noid for the application. I have only heard good things about the reliability of the centerflag board so I think Coolhand should try and emulate the way their gun trips the sear as closely as possible.

Also some peoples guns wont accept a ULT, mine included.

[SaS]

those hyperframe boards.. do they still come in different firing modes? Perhaps it has something to do with their infamous Hypermode? Where you don't have to be pulling the trigger as fast as it's actually shooting

[speedyejl]

Originally posted by No Excuse

way their gun trips the sear as closely as possible.

Also some peoples guns wont accept a ULT, mine included.

Thats just a matter of drilling it out right?

[sslecyk03]

yea, a simple mill job.

[sslecyk03]

bump

[SaS]

Originally posted by SaS
those hyperframe boards.. do they still come in different firing modes? Perhaps it has something to do with their infamous Hypermode? Where you don't have to be pulling the trigger as fast as it's actually shooting

so how about that one?
sorry but i have a sneaking suspicion that it got overlooked

[CoolHand]

I am going to try it first with the WAS board, and make it a fully functional frame, out of the box.

These frames will be all Logic, not "borrowed" from CF.

I am going to try my durndest to only use the CF Solenoid, and nothing else.

I'm sorry for the guys who were after a Hyperframe retro fit, but I never was 100% comfortable with just dumping the Hyperframe stuff into a different wrapper. If you already have a hyperframe, you will need to buy a board too, or the whole shebang, and just sell your hyperframe.

So basicly the answer is - I don't know, and it doesn't really matter here, because we aren't going to use the CF board anyway. At least that is the assumption that we are operating under.

[sslecyk03]

sounds great, a WAS'ed mag, only one more question. How will the price be affected... hopefully not too much.

[Adrenaline_Junkie]

Thats awesome Coolhand. I have a hyperframe but if you come out with a WAS'd frame for mags i will sell my frame in a heart beat. What kind of trigger are you gonna try usin?

[$tevo]

damnn..these things will be wased? thats awesome.hopfully i will have the moeny for it. i couldnt save up enough for the logic frame! but im not passing up a wased logic frame..no way

[sslecyk03]

i just hope its affordable. Remember Coolhand, the cheaper it is, the more you will sell ;)

[bokraham]

i would get one too if it could turn off and have a semi auto mode, all mechanical

[Adrenaline_Junkie]

I was jw what kind of trigger setup this frame is gonna have?