Where should my loyalties lie?

[Low]

I just purchased a custom RTP off of the internet, and I absolutely loved it. I went to my local shop to get it gassed up, and I found out that the shop had just begun selling mags, and he was a bit sad that I didn't buy off of him.

This little shop just started last year, and besides it, there are no other shops within 1 hour of where I live. It is very quaint, has a good choice of guns, and has a fantastically nice owner. He is looking into building a speedball field behind the shop, but so far he doesn't have the cash to.

My problem is this: Tons of my friends are 100% impressed with the performance of my mag. They had never seen one before, and now many people are looking into purchasing one. Do I send my friends to the internet to purchase the guns, or to the shop? They are very good friends, so should I send them to the internet to buy, where they can save tons of money (sometimes over 100$), or do I send them to my shop-- which NEEDS support. This guy is loosing ALL of his business to the internet, and he just can't compete with the prices.

Unless it has changed recently, is there any reason why AGD allows their markers to be sold cheaply online, but can't give very good deals to the small time dealers? Granted, they will sell more the online way, but the people on the front lines, the dealers, are getting screwed.

So, aside from my loyalty question, I have a question for Tom.

Have you ever considered making a manditory price for markers, so that dealers can at least compete with internet sites? It would definately help keep the small time dealers alive.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

[Python14]

I say, if you can afford it, go local.

Last time I checked, few if any online stores will fix your gun when it breaks mid day(that's assuming it's not a mag, because honestly, mags don't break). Plus, usually, if you are loyal to them, they will be loyal to you in that if your gun goes down or something, they'll be more than likely to loan you one. Ya know? Not many online stores do that.

[tyrion2323]

I'd get your friends to buy local - it just promotes an all-around better community!

Jacob

[Gecko]

have your dealer contact agd
there is similar pricing available to dealers for the custom Rts

[cphilip]

The differences are mostly profit margin against volume. The onliners push volume to make up for a thin profit margine. Low overhead and volume keep the online stores going and make the little guy just not able to compete in price. If he matches he just cannot feed his family and pay the bills. You have to decide if thats important enough to lay your extra dollars down.

[shartley]

I will also add that Real World Shops KNOW what they are getting into when they open their doors. They know that they can not compete price wise on every product VS the Internet Sales Stores.

There are advantages and disadvantages to BOTH. And sometimes buying locally is an advantage, while sometimes the lower cost online is an advantage.

I understand both systems and don’t feel sorry for either, for their disadvantages. And yes Online Sales have disadvantages as well…. one being all the OTHER online stores, another being no “hands on” sales or customer hands on ability with the products. And there are other advantages/disadvantages…. But they are really not important at this point.

My point is that when people CHOOSE to go into business, be it online or real world, they know (or SHOULD know) all the advantages and disadvantages of doing so. This does not mean you should not show support for your local shops, because you SHOULD, but it should be on a case by case and product by product basis. And you should not feel guilty if you buy online because you can’t justify the extra cost of buying at your local store.

There are plenty of customers for both kinds of shops… if not, we would not see new paintball shops opening up like we do. The Internet is a wonderful sales tool, but I believe that there is still a place for the real world shops…. And that they are a necessity for the sport. But I will not feel guilty if a shop owner can’t pay his bills off of his/her sales……. That is not why I purchase ANY product, be it online or off. And honestly, when was the last time anyone thought about if MY kids were eating well, or MY bills were paid? ;)

I don’t mean to sound harsh, that is not my intent. But some folks need to determine why they buy products or why they are in business. I always wish honest businesses run by great folks all the luck in the world… but they ARE businesses.

[hockaloogey]

if u send them to the shop, they're likely to use the internet anyway, 'fraid things don't look good for yer buddy at the shop... :(

[sniper1rfa]

send'em over to the shop. Being good friends with a shop owner is awesome, and you do it by working with them, and being good to them. Be good, and they will be good right back. I make a point to buy my paint from the feild owner here (even though its byop), and what i can from the local shop that just opened up. That way, when the gun goes down, or you need some help with something, you will get the service.

This goes for anything, If you are good to/for the buisness, the buisness will be good to/for you.

[Barfly]

the way I understand it is that most store owners earn their money from air fills and selling paintballs, not really from selling markers.

[lew]

I buy all the small stuff from my local store (under $100). Most online stores offer free S&H on items totaling over $100, and the S&H on items under $100 is usually more than the sales tax. I always buy paint at the store as well. Local stores cannot be beat in terms of service, at least my store anyway. The shop owners know who I am and treat me well.

I would buy the gun, and tank online and buy all the other necessary stuff from the shop (barrel(s), paint, air, clothing, etc...).

[rtslave]

I too belive in the ol' ma and pop store, but I'll have to be honest, the stores here in Vegas suck, they have horrible hours, most are staffed with kids who look at you side ways if a ask a question about anything other than Timmys or Cockers, 90% of the time they don't have what you need. I don't know why they even try to sell markers, they should give up that big overhead and get more accesories and stuff, for the most part we all wait until NPPL or PSP comes around and do any paintball related acc. (clothes, lens, barrels) shopping there. I'd give up every store in Vegas for one super cool place to play.. just my .02$

[SpongeBobSquarePants]

Always go local, as long as your local guy is good. There is a shop that is actually local to me, and I swear I have had more products go in and out my house then he has his store. However, the field that sponsors our team is really good to us. I buy all my paint there (Of course I do I get the team price :D ) I buy everything else there. I even droped 1,000 bucks for a Ironmen timmy. It was the first marker I have ever bought local. I took it in and was putting my asa and macro on it. I relized I needed a macro fitting. I said "John, (the owner) you have and macro fittings I can buy for this thing?" He says "Here just take this one." This is the kind of relationship you will build with your owners if you keep coming back time and agian. I think the only thing I havn't bought local recently was a dye beanie, a 30 inch dye sticker, and 300 fps dvd. So always buy local if they have what your looking for even if it cost more. Its just better business.

[Pacifist_Farmer]

I buy all my Paint and big stuff (anything a couple hundred and over) from the locals, nothing beats having someone to go to for free when you cant solve the problem yourself. Ive seen several local shops go out due to all the internet vendors, unfortunately. Their owners were good people, a dying breed, salesmen that is. Small business owners in sales wont be around for very much longer, instead youll see an increase in small custom fabrication and parts, i.e. Doc. So I say support them while you can!

[Digits]

Tell him to start up a field.. Thats where the money rolls in.. Are local field here bought an airball field, had 1 tournament, and the field was paid off after that tourny.. But if you have a tournament, try to get new players to come out.. There were 16 teams in a very small area of 'seriouse' paintballers around here.. Three quarters of them were new and shooting tippmans or renting.

[845]

I would send them to the shop. I would take into consideration that if you dont support and he is forced to close down you will be driving an hour for a fill. Not to mention its a good idea to have a relationship with the store owner. Especially if you go to trade shows with them, dealer prices baby.

[robertjuric]

Im curious why new "shops" even bother with big sells to begin with.

If I was just starting out, Id start out as a field only, and only sell the small things that are necessities(hoses, air fittings, other misc. stuff), until I grew enough to compete with the online stores for bigger items.

[Koosh]

My local store owner (Anthony Navarro at Action Pursuit, you guys know him as the maker of the Highlander Viking) just posted this on his own forum at www.actionpursuitpaintball.com ... Sounds pretty reasonable to me (except when he rags on his competition in the area)

We get alot of kids coming in the store with the " give me for free" attitude and I am sure every other store does too. Here are the reasons why you should by from a local shop.

1.) Local service. when that guns goes down and you bought it from me, you will have a working gun asap and be ready to go...no charge for labor. you buy it else where and your options are 1.) send it to the company...you pay shipping 18-20 bucks each way 2.) take it to a shop and pay 30.00/hr. i just love it when people buy guns from stores that sell toothpaste and camping gear ( jax) and get JACKED because the guy doesnt know a spyder bolt from a spring kit. then the kid wants US to fix what they JACKed up. I cannot even keep track of all the problems I fix when people buy stuff there.....example they sold a guy a intimidator and also sold him an aftermarket barrel for it....only problem was the barrels were spyder threaded. We have sold hundreds of guns, find someone we sold a gun to and ask them how fast we get problems solved....

2.) Chance to win some serious prizes. Everyone who buys a new gun from us gets put on a list.. If you come to one of our big events you get a 2nd raffle ticket for FREE for LIFE. If you have been to a big event then you know how many thousands of dollars in stuff we give away ...intimidators, vikings, nitro systems, A-5's etc........

3.) Lifetime free labor on upgrades.... If you buy a gun from us and later on you want to upgrade it....as long as you buy the parts from us the labor is FREE for LIFE.....and we will make sure it works right the first time.....again....we are tired of fixing the problems of other shops....putting flatline barrels on wrong will make them shoot bad, not leak testing air lines for clients is poor work.....


4.) For the amount of work we put into making sure our clients are pleased with their purchase, why would I work for free which is what you asking me to do. If a gun cost me say 20.00, why would I sell it for 20.00 when it also cost me 5.00 to have it shipped to me, the store rent, pay checks for employees, utilites, etc,etc. Use your head. If your dad loses his job to a company in China because the labor there is free ( pretty much slave labor), or you cant get a summer job because the LOCAL store closed because of a Wal-Mart, then your kind only have yourself to blame for buying of the internet or buying from a place that is ruining the local economy.

I usually dont waste my time with stupid questions like this but people need to know why we charge what we charge AND what you get.

i dont see tons of people lining up to loan me 1.2 million dollars to open our 55,000 square foot indoor field that is gonna open soon?????? I work my *** off to grow the sport in this area and I am positive that 80% of the local players appreciate it. I also am aware that 20% of players want to have nothing to do with local fields and stores. I also am aware that there are players that will try to get "a deal" from there local shops and fields until they pretty much bankrupt them..... I know of at least 2 fields that will not exsist by this time next year because of that mentality from players. Do you people honestly think that we make a ton of money when we sell cases for $74.00 ????? Do you stop and think about the field rent I pay, the employee pay checks ( 4 employees) the cost of the paint and air, the truck upkeep, the rental gun and mask upkeep, the huge amount of insurance we pay per year, the store rent, etc, etc, etc. If you think we do, then I am sorry but you are insane! Do any of you think that we made money off our 5 big events this year? We gave out $32,000.00 in prizes.....Think about it for a while and the answer is that we lost money on 4 of the 5 events, but we continued because I made a promise in the beginning of the year and we kept it. I know people were watching to see if I would cut prizes but we did not and guess what......The players responded by telling everyone and the events grew, and grew and grew.

I dont wanna say anymore. I have to drop off kids and meet with builders so hate me if you want... I really dont care.... I am going to work to take care of OUR CUSTOMERS...customers who care about what and who they buy from !

Anthony
Action Pursuit

[xXHavokXx]

At the store i work at we try to compete with internet pricing to an extent and people ask us why we are more and i always tell them because we will work on your gun if anything goes wrong with it and they wont. So some kid bought his speed from a shop online for 2 bucks less than we were selling them for and broke it. He comes in asking me to fix so it so i do and charge him labor and hes like i heard you fix angels for free!....im like only if you bought it from us.

sorry if its hard to understand im drunk

[rtslave]

This all sounds great, if you have shop like some of these mentioned, but I'd be willing to bet they are few and far between.

[Load SM5]

Granted it's not your responsibility to keep this guy in business for him but if he is your only option for a conenient store and probably field then I'd go with him. I like to help out my local field and see it as a bit of an investment. Especially if your money goes towards helping him set up a field.

Think about it like this, the few dollars you'd save buy going online would get sucked up pretty fast in the extra gas it would take you to drive the extra miles once your local store/field goes under.

[Branchvillian]

I'm going to take a stab at this and say that if your closest shop is an hour away, the closet field is probably about an hour away too. If you don't want to be taking long drives to go play every weekend, give this guy a little support, get him up and running, and hopefully get yourself a local field.

[xXHavokXx]

man we must be spoiled 'round these parts, there is a paintball store every 20-30 miles and twice as many fields. cant see having the nearest store an hour away.

[bryceeden]

I would say support the local stores. A good store will work to grow the sport in your area, which is something the internet just can't do.

[Carnage]

Yes yes local is the way to go. I only go online if my local store cannot get the stuff I want.

[Load SM5]

Originally posted by xXHavokXx
man we must be spoiled 'round these parts, there is a paintball store every 20-30 miles and twice as many fields. cant see having the nearest store an hour away.

Yes, you are....now hush.;)

[Fixion]

I love my local shop (Adrenaline Sports in Portland). They have given me good deals in the past, and their mag tech/owner of the store is a very cool guy. Sure there may be a bit of a price difference, but the local shop is a lot more conveniant than the internet.

[Miltonyz]

1.) Local service. when that guns goes down and you bought it from me, you will have a working gun asap and be ready to go...no charge for labor.

when I had my mag I did all my own maintnence. My viking is a little more complicated but it is possible to fix problems by yourself.


Chance to win some serious prizes.

Maybe he should give out a few less prizes and cut the price a little?



3.) Lifetime free labor on upgrades

If I need something I install it myself.


.) For the amount of work we put into making sure our clients are pleased with their purchase, why would I work for free which is what you asking me to do.

We are not asking him to work for free. If he can not provide his product at a competeive cost without losing his money it's not our problem, it's the business owners.


then your kind only have yourself to blame for buying of the internet or buying from a place that is ruining the local economy.

Kind of an agressive qoute. Places going out of business are never the consumers fault. If the business can not compete on a price level they must make it up on a service level. If they can do neither then they don't deserve to be open.


Do you people honestly think that we make a ton of money when we sell cases for $74.00 ?????

My local field sells cases for 50-55. Now he might have to charge more because of his 1.2 million dollar building. He has to relize that for many people the extra amenities are not worth the extra cost.

[xXHavokXx]

74 for what? the closest thing we have is ultra evil for 70. hellfire is the next highest at 60