Smart Parts Patent Will Destroy Paintball! - Read!

[WickedAirSportz]

Smart Parts broadended their patent, and it was revised in January. The patent is very broad. The patent covers ANY paintball marker that has an on/off switch. This means Spyders with electronic triggers, Intimidators, Angels, Matrices, Bushmasters, and anything else with a battery will be in violation of Smart Parts' patent.

On Friday, a judge approved Smart Parts' request to proceed with their lawsuit for patent infringements. On September 3rd, a trial will begin. This is moving very quickly.

As a patent consultant myself, and can not understand how the patent can be granted, as it will impede technology, which is one of the things that a patent can never do.

Smart Parts is rumored to want a million dollar signing fee, and $75 per unit sold for a royalty fee.

I would recommend contacting Smart Parts and expressing your concern.

[Darkling]

Ok, I'm really lost here (I guess I've been playing stock class for too long). How does Smart Parts have the right to do this?

[PsychoBaller]

Cough..... screw SmartParts.... cough....

~da "never liked them anyways" baller

[magman007]

Jim, apparently you are worried about this as well, I appreciate your concern and letting us know. You know the power of the AO army, and i think combined with others concerns expressed to SP and the eventual boycott of sp, wel cna convince them to give it the hell up.



SP has money, and if they were to sue AGD and tie them up, that could mean some big financial troubles.

the funny thing is, AGD has the first ever Electronic marker, again, they never patented it, but they could show previous art

[JT2002]

how is it possible to have a patent for an on/off switch? thats like me saying, "im gonna go get a patent for all eating utensils that have four prongs with which to poke your food. and then sure every company that has ever made a fork, or a spork for that matter" :D

[MarkM]

Crazy and there we all thought that the "people" at Smart Parts were in it for the long haul. Now looks like they are trying to be the Microsoft of paintball...another company makes a better product than you so you buy the company and suppress the output from it...in this case not buying the company but making the companys go bust and in so doing become Fords "Any colour as long as its black" type of thing. I remember when all this patent stuff was flying around before that there were other well older patents in place that aren't Smart Parts registered and even under the broad descriptions of the current Smart Parts claim they if brought to bear would make the holders of those patents able to sue Smart Parts.

[yeahthatsme]

is it everything with an on/off switch or everything with a battery? cus if its everything with an on/off switch then matrices, xmags, and some others will be fine cus they use push buttons and not switches..and i doubt SP could sue companies just becuase other people used batteries in their stuff:rolleyes:

[yeahthatsme]

and people, lets not jump all over this yet, it could just be a mis-understanding, letsw not go and make fools of ourselves and slander smart parts without further proof...

[chizle97]

Wow this makes the Yellow pin look alot better. Also I think Im going the Bushy way instead of the Imp. actualy probably not but that still makes me mad. thats like putting a patent on a the doorknob and charging $75 a piece to use them.

[Animal Mother]

SmartParts is a small company when you compare them to other companies (not paintball) and this is sucide. Why? because we can boycott SmartParts and they will fall. Even if it does get changed it shows what a scum ball company they are for even trying. Yeah.. I'm gonna pass on that Shocker '03.

I'll be placing my order with The Angel Guy next week. :)

Speeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed!

[ramennoodles]

oh bah they need slandering, anyway, it would still be considered a switch begause it is "5; a device formaking, breaking, or changing the connections in an electrical circuit" as defined by websters dictionary. this would include a button.

[WarBUCKs]

Well, this seems kind of odd. Any paintball marker? I guess the work around could be a button rather than a switch or how about a remote control IR device.

I am sure if this is going to happen, Tom and the friendlies at AGD have gotten word of this. Anything with a battery may be pushing it and they will probaby just waste their money. Too bad for them.

This reminds me of Metallica suing for the E and F chords cuz it is their trademark.

Blasphemy!!!!!

[FreakBaller12]

so are you sayign i should buy this upgrades off the market
or
they will still be available just that company gets sued for it and i should boycott smart parts?
thus including ebalde cocker and ebolt for m98?

[Evil Bob]

Face it, they're getting old, they can't really compete on the field with the younger generation of players, they're losing business in the market place to superior competitive products, this is merely the sign of the times.

Usually this type of mindless litigation is the first sign that things are going south for a company, when they pull out the crazy BS patents and go on a quest to hurt as many as they can and pad their earnings.

That patent claim is so broad and silly that I can't believe that the actually found a judge stupid enough to go along with it. Its right up there with the guy who tried to sue all the console game manufacturers for his stupid wide open patent on console design.

Just another reason (not that I don't have enough already) for me to never buy an SP product again.

As a patent consultant, Jim, do you have any favors owed you by people high in the legal food chain that you could call upon to kill this nonsense?

-Evil Bob

[Mossman]

Originally posted by WarBUCKs

This reminds me of Metallica suing for the E and F chords cuz it is their trademark.

Blasphemy!!!!!

That was a joke....hopefully this is too.
I think smart parts is one of the worst companies I've run accross, in any business.

[Miscue]

Humm... maybe AGD should patent the yellow pin idea. :p

[logamus]

ah but think of the megaownage mags would throw out there if there were no more electros.

[SyntaxError]

Screw Smart Parts, these jerks have been up to this crap for years, and now not only are their needlessly cutthroat business ethics truly showing through, but their product quality has dipped towards the worse (in my opinion)

How about a sportwide boycott of SP products? Make it so they don't get jack from all of us who support "other" markers with on/off switches.

[ben_JD]

While things happen in the legal field every day that surprise me, I am not certain that the entire story is being reflected in this thread. My patent law is a little fuzzy (and I never sat for the patent bar), so I will not espouse what I believe the patent law to be. However, the threshold for what a judge will allow to move forward in court is pretty hard to overstep sometimes.

The right to sue is pretty broad and courts are often wary to restrict that right. The possibility of a court not forbidding Smart Parts from filing a lawsuit is FAR FROM a court making a positive determination on the merits of a claim from Smart Parts. Smart Parts may be allowed to sue me for waking up this morning, it does not mean they are going to get anything for it. The return on investment for filing useless lawsuits is pretty meager and I am sure that SP's lawyers are telling them this.

This is not a legal opinion, merely the musings of a man who is still at work....and....bored.

[personman]

Hahahahaha smart parts makes me laugh
I wish I had a 2003 shocker.. I heard they were really good...

<b>FOR ME TO POOP ON!!!11</b>

[AGD]

People let me tell you, this is VERY VERY REAL. If you don't believe it, call Smart Parts directly and ask them if they have the patent rights on all electronic guns.

Why do you think we have been working on the ULE Trigger?

AGD

[FutureMagOwner]

Originally posted by Miscue
Humm... maybe AGD should patent the yellow pin idea. :p


yep that idea is really taking off in other markers :D ;)

[No sKiLLz]

If all is as you say, a boycott won't do a lot of good. If their patent really reaches that far, in order to truly screw smart parts we would have to drop all electro markers in the range of their patent. Would that include Matrix, Intimidators, Angels etc.? There has to be some information on this somewhere. Can someone post a link? With the current 411 as is, we may as well go Al-Queda on Smart Parts.:mad:

[logamus]

sp might win this fight, but what company is in better position to capitalize from the tremendous loss of electros than adg? like i said, we will own all when there are no electros around.

[FutureMagOwner]

i dont see the efficiency of a boycott if most of use dont regularly buy smart parts stuff the only thing we regularly purchase is paint in reality..

EDIT: Tom i have to ask if they win what will become of the emag? will it stopped being produced? and if it is can we still get support of our guns, etc?

[logamus]

Originally posted by FutureMagOwner
i dont see the efficiency of a boycott if most of use dont regularly buy smart parts stuff the only thing we regularly purchase is paint in reality..

well if sp's suit keeps other companies from making electros there would be serious backlash against sp's electros and it would kinda defeat the point. if winning your lawsuit means you wont sell another gun, is it really worth winning? i really cant see anyone paying the money sp wants from the suit so i would imagine if they won that would end the age of the electro paintball gun.

[No sKiLLz]

A boycott would definitely be useless. If anything it justifies SP cutting R&D out of their budget and just sitting back and getting fat on royalties.

[CoFFeY[NiTrO]]

Originally posted by magman007
Jim, apparently you are worried about this as well, I appreciate your concern and letting us know. You know the power of the AO army, and i think combined with others concerns expressed to SP and the eventual boycott of sp, wel cna convince them to give it the hell up.



SP has money, and if they were to sue AGD and tie them up, that could mean some big financial troubles.

the funny thing is, AGD has the first ever Electronic marker, again, they never patented it, but they could show previous art
AGD brought nitrogen into this sport. DOWN WITH MAX-FLOS!

[Nick O time]

I hate Smart Parts. It's a good thing we have Tom to think up of these great things like the ULT and stuff. Someone should make a patition(sp?) to boycott Smart Parts.

[phatpat47]

now tell me if this is off, but someone once explained to me why disney had to sue a little kid for putting mickey on his website. They said that if they dont inforce their trademark or whatever that they lose the rights. Smartparts hasnt sued anyone up untill this point, dont they lose the right.

[personman]

Lets start a petition on petitiononline.com saying that we want to overrule the SP patent?
Is that possible? It would work I know it would if you passed it around all the internet fourms like PBN PBReview ect.

[FutureMagOwner]

Originally posted by phatpat47
now tell me if this is off, but someone once explained to me why disney had to sue a little kid for putting mickey on his website. They said that if they dont inforce their trademark or whatever that they lose the rights. Smartparts hasnt sued anyone up untill this point, dont they lose the right.

sorta but it was just recently expanded which covers all electros from the sounds of it

[SyntaxError]

After this, I would like nothing more than to see smart parts go down in flames.

Is there any way that ICD can sue SP for ripping off the Bushy's design principles? Or AGD sue for the Max-Flo (which is a piece of trash by the way) copying the initial N2 tank designs?

There's gotta be something that can be done to either make SP give up their ridiculous lawsuit. I'm sure that if we flooded their inbox with like 50,000 emails and letters and phone calls expressing our concern about this crap, we'd do something.

This really needs to be organized, this isn't just another Smart Parts lawsuit, this one could seriously mess up the sport even more than it already is.

[phatpat47]

ohhh, well then I have no doubt that they will lose, given that they cannot infringe on others patents.

[845]

Man I should sit down and start patenting things. Then go on a suing spree!:D

[maglover52]

dude screw smart parts they are gay.agd wdp intimidators and all those electros are way better than smart parts. no offense owners of smart parts products but thats gay.

[Hell's Oracle]

Hey Tom!

Can't you do anything? The new 2k3 Shocker looks a lot like an Automag, in operation and looks, can't you threaten a suit as well?

[-Carnifex-]

Originally posted by magman007
Jim, apparently you are worried about this as well, I appreciate your concern and letting us know. You know the power of the AO army, and i think combined with others concerns expressed to SP and the eventual boycott of sp, wel cna convince them to give it the hell up.


I doubt it..

[phatpat47]

Tom quick! patent the single tube body design!

[AGD]

You all think this is a joke and that it can't possibly happen. There are threads on PBN right now saying the same thing. I can tell you with absoulute authority that SP has a very broad patent that covers everything that shoots paintballs with a battery. Go ahead and joke around about it I'm sure you will find it really funny in the end.

AGD

[jinxed]

How can something like this happen?

The owner of Smart Parts is a corrupt patent lawyer, who has ran a "patent marketing" scam that the FTC shut down a while ago.

So, the Gardners obviously know how to manipulate the system. This is nothing new.

For one, Smart Parts doesnt have a single innovation in paintball. Every product has either been bought or stolen from another company.

Second, there are patents for electronic paintball guns that came out BEFORE the PVI Shocker.
There actually was an electronic paintball gun, designed by the Navy in the 1970s!! It even has an ACE on it!!
If that doesnt count, the CCI semi was out before the PVI Shocker, so there is plenty of prior art to show that Smart Parts is full of crooks!!
(well, lets just hope AKA and ICD have decent lawyers though).

-NIck
http://www.cs.usm.maine.edu/~brassard/paintball/nosp1.gif http://www.cs.usm.maine.edu/~brassard/paintball/nosp2.gif

[phatpat47]

sorry about the joking tom, but Im reading the thread at PBN too. The guy said that patents arent hard to obtain, and that that part doesnt mean anything. Good luck anyway.

[manike]

As Tom says this is a very serious matter.

Big money has been spent on both sides of the current litigation and this looks to be only just the start of what is to come. :(

It's going to take a court of law to determine the future rights to the use of electro guns.

SP are out to control all electronic guns...

[nippinout]

Very scary times.

Is this multiple suits? Are the companies pooling together their resources?

I know AKA was digging a lot and asking for help in finding old electros. I know he was asking the Tinker's Guild. Maybe we can see what other people from the different forums know.

[Lohman446]

THis is not good - slightly off subject example (and likely over simplified).

TSR (produced Dungeons and Dragons) tried to sue an author over the use of the word "drow" arguing they owned the creation.

Tolkien (the estate) brought suit against TSR for the similarities between the halfings in DnD and the Hobbits.

TSR lost first suit, it turns out drow had appeared in a dictionary long before - then had problems with Tolkien.

Wizards of the coast bought the rights to DnD and TSR and promptly changed the description of halfings

:) Now that I've proven that there are things in my life besides paintball... is there anything that anyone can do to stop this? Does not the navy hold the patent on paintball guns? Has Smart Parts not stepped on intellectual property rights with the use of compressed air tanks in paintball.... Who can sue Smart Parts for violations of trade laws? Someone, somewhere, has to hold something on Smarts Parts? I mean, this patent they hold, can they prove that they developed rather than stole the fundamentals of it? Can the patent stand a legal challenge? AHH... someone do something... oh wait a minute... neither of my mags have batteries... no more electros - MAGS and COCKERS rule again... nevermind.. just let them be (jking, someone needs to do something).

[Meph]

Originally posted by AGD
People let me tell you, this is VERY VERY REAL. If you don't believe it, call Smart Parts directly and ask them if they have the patent rights on all electronic guns.

Why do you think we have been working on the ULE Trigger?

AGD


Hmmmmmmm. I've always known the pen is mightier than the sword.

Time for me to get a little section in PBN Magazine published. I'm sure Smart Parts will LOVE my opinion on them and what I have to say. Though I know you'll get a kick out of it Tom ! :D Along with everybody else non-SP.

[Vegeta]

E-markers have been out for years and Smart Parts has not done ANYTHING about that.. isn't there some sort of clause against taking action after a certain length of time?

[Kevmaster]

I can assure you all...when you take the combined resources of National Paintball Supply, Kingman, WDP, Worr Games, and of course, Brass Eagle....they CAN beat Smart Parts in money. This patent, to our eyes, is unreasonable, and will not hold up. I compare it to patenting a gas powered car...impossible. Those companies there, if desired, could burry Smart Parts. Smart Parts will be albe to pick on the smaller companies (ICD, AGD, etc) but will not be able to touch someone their own size

[phatpat47]

Originally posted by phatpat47
now tell me if this is off, but someone once explained to me why disney had to sue a little kid for putting mickey on his website. They said that if they dont inforce their trademark or whatever that they lose the rights. Smartparts hasnt sued anyone up untill this point, dont they lose the right.

the guy responded that they have recently expanded their patent.

[Gambit1106]

Here are patens that are found under Smart Parts:
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=0&f=S&l=50&TERM1=smart+parts&FIELD1=&co1=AND&TERM2=&FIELD2=&d=ptxt

Now is it covering any marker with a switch or battery power?

Finally, would this still affect you Jim because of your aftermarket boards? Since they are operated by a switch and battery powered?

Overall I am in awe of something like this, good luck to all makers of markers, its going to be a rough road ahead for everyone.

[gregicd]

If they have there way we will be all shooting there stuff.

[Star_Base_CGI]

Chuff Chuff.

Psst want to buy an Eframe.

Unchuffingbelivable.

This is a joke. How can you patent something thats already in use?

This is why Im always complaining about how corrupt the US is. Everything has switchs. How can someone patent something that alread exists.

What are they going to do next? Patent Oxygen and water. Oh sorry Deer park spring water is copywrited. You cant drink water unless you pay them $1000 a bottle.

Tom good luck on your new MAG.

[brett]

this seriosly makes me pissed!!!

I need some anti smart-parts stickers now!!!!

[Johnny_Reb]

I dont think enough ppl would be able to boycott SP enough for it to crash. Look aroudn you, SP has a huge fan base. Look at all the Impys you see on the tourney circuits. Ppl will still buy SP products even if they do put an end to the other electros.

I could only see SP profiting from this. Think about it, do you think pros and long time electro users are going to stop using electros and switch to mechs? Of course not. Theyll just use Impys and Shockers. As much as I hate whats happening I think its a smart move for Smart Parts.

[ah137]

Originally posted by AGD
You all think this is a joke and that it can't possibly happen. There are threads on PBN right now saying the same thing. I can tell you with absoulute authority that SP has a very broad patent that covers everything that shoots paintballs with a battery. Go ahead and joke around about it I'm sure you will find it really funny in the end.

AGD


Well there are few people who do believe this, SO WTF are we going to do about it?

~Hills

[phatpat47]

Johnny that would be true, but if they ACTOUALLy won all of this, the tournament circuits would boycott sp, and they would go out of business.

also to call and Harass SP:
tech support #: 724-539-2660
and
ordering #:800 992 2147

[Lohman446]

Ok... so we are taking this seriously enough...

What can we do about this and what do you suggest we do as individuals?


Chuff Chuff....

[logamus]

i dont think this is a joke, i just think that there are some out there that see a paintball world with no electros in it and arnt all that upset by it. i would imagine a paintball world with no smart parts in it makes an even larger group happy.

[superdesk2007]

To think, I was going to get an impulse.

[Lohman446]

sales@smartparts.com


Ok folks, I couldn't figure out how to make this a link.. but I think that would be the first place to voice our discontent...

Tom - it would be beneficial (maybe) if we all sent the same letter? Is there a form that would be best suited... or do we each type our own thoughts... At this point AO has its uses, I beleive we are all looking towards you for directions in what we can do to help.

[phatpat47]

you could buy an impulse, and mess it up repetedly right up untill the warranty is over, and then return it.

[personman]

http://www.petitiononline.com

[Star_Base_CGI]

There are preexisting patents...

http://www.northarc.com/~tinker/smartparts.html



Smart Parts has also conveniently forgotten that there are a few patents that pre-date their shocker patents that deal with paintballs and electronics. I would like to see smart parts take on the US Navy, since the navy gets the credit for being the first to build an electronic paintball gun back in 1971-72, yes thats right 1971-72.

Smart parts also left off there patent application another patent (which is a no-no) that was issued a full year before they filed on the shocker. It was a patent on a truly electronic conversion system for a pro-lite. It used solenoids and micro-processor controlled electronics. So they will have a had time making their patents stand up in court, unless someone makes a shocker.

[nippinout]

What's the next event Smart Parts will be at?

[Johnny_Reb]

Johnny that would be true, but if they ACTOUALLy won all of this, the tournament circuits would boycott sp, and they would go out of business.

Ah but thats where your wrong. The Philadelphia Americans, SP's main team plays Xball. Guess who runs Xball? NAP and Draxxus. Remember Draxxus no longer owns the Matrix so thats no skin off their nose, NAP would be hurtbut they would still be a major company. Strange could be moved to Xball if needed, and thats $10,000 in NAP and Draxxus's pockets right there.

But look at the bright side, AGD will triple it sells of mags if electros do go down.

EDIT: By the way this thread should be stickied.

[Ukraineboy]

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=/netahtml/search-adv.htm&r=23&f=G&l=50&d=PTXT&p=1&S1=Paintball&OS=Paintball&RS=Paintball


Read that.

it says Zap paintball Patented "Electrically operated paintball gun"

in 2001

:rolleyes:

[personman]

Originally posted by nippinout
What's the next event Smart Parts will be at?
LOL Burn the booth down~~!!!!@!1!!

[phatpat47]

Anti smart parts (http://cleedo.com/nospn.html)

[logamus]

Originally posted by Johnny_Reb
I could only see SP profiting from this. Think about it, do you think pros and long time electro users are going to stop using electros and switch to mechs? Of course not. Theyll just use Impys and Shockers. As much as I hate whats happening I think its a smart move for Smart Parts.

i disagree. i think the legions of paintballers out there would so hate sp for ending the age of electros that very very few would buy their products. i think teams that have other sponsers would be pushed to use other guns and that sp would eventually have no support or customer base.

[brett]

I almost want to cry thinking of what they could do:( :eek:

[raehl]

A quick search of the USPTO database yeilds a few patents, and yes, they are that bad.

Of course, that doesn't answer key questions like, were the patents filed on time, is there prior art, and is the invention obvious to anyone with competency in the area in question.

On the upside, maybe we'll all just stop using electronic markers and then we don't have to worry about trigger bounce anymore. :)


Also note that (near as I can tell) the way the patents are written, they don't apply if you remove the barrel. So just play without your barrel. :)


(Or more likely, sell the markers without barrels, and then make Smart Parts enforce their patent against every player who adds one to their marker individually. ;))


- Chris

[jinxed]

About those other patents...

The Shocker patent was filed in Jan 15, 1997.

A patent for a similar electropneumatic was filed at May, 5, 1996. Click here for patent (http://www.haveblue.org/tech/patents/US005727538.pdf)
This alone would invalidate Smart Parts claims.

But there are others.

A patent was filed for an E-GRIP type conversion in Nov, 2 1993. Click here for patent (http://www.haveblue.org/tech/patents/US005413083.pdf)
This definetly predates any smart parts patent.

Lastly, a patent was filed by the US Navy in 6/10/71 for an electro paintball gun, that even had an ACE!!! Click here for patent (http://www.haveblue.org/tech/patents/US003695246.pdf)
This predates paintball as we know it, yet the patent clearly describes it to use "dye filled gelatin capsules" for use in "military simulations".

Plus, the CCI semi was also out before the Shocker, but it wasnt patented.

SO, how the heck can this lawsuit even continue?
The lawyers can see the exact same patents???
(unless SMart Parts bought the rights to them)???

Nick

[No sKiLLz]

Originally posted by personman

LOL Burn the booth down~~!!!!@!1!!

I'm all for a witch hunt. :mad: If I lived in Penn I would definately pay Smart Parts a visit with my water balloon launcher and some frozen water balloons (Leave my Matrix at home so they don't think I'm a hooligan):D

[Johnny_Reb]

i disagree. i think the legions of paintballers out there would so hate sp for ending the age of electros that very very few would buy their products. i think teams that have other sponsers would be pushed to use other guns and that sp would eventually have no support or customer base.

So you think long time electro users and pro teams are just going to switch to mechs that easy? No way man, one team could be using mechs and the other using electros, the second team would have the technology advantage. All paintball players want the technological edge. Even tho SP wouldve put out other electros they would also be the only makers of them. Players' desire for electros would cause them to but the SP electros.

[FalconGuy016]

This is the stupidest thing I have ever seen.

All these electro companies! Are they just going to accept $75 extra per gun? They cant! They cant pay a tax because a company patented the pencil... they have to take that to court! Why is smart parts doing this? What a stupid move, if they try to follow through SO MANY PEOPLE are going to HATE THEM! Absolutely hate! Paintball's first evil corporation?

[Animal Mother]

Originally posted by personman

LOL Burn the booth down~~!!!!@!1!!

Yeahhhhhh!! And I'll save the twins so they will forver be in debt to me.

heh heh... :D

[phatpat47]

Originally posted by Johnny_Reb

But look at the bright side, AGD will triple it sells of mags if electros do go down.

EDIT: By the way this thread should be stickied.


you think that its no skin of the tournaments backs?? Its bad for paintball its bad for them. period. If they win the price of marker will go up by $75, it wont be the end of electros.

[Black_Dragun2578]

ok u guys have no right for saying crap about smart parts they make great products let them do whatever they want to
yes it may mess with some other companys

yes agd has SOME good products i had a classic mag myself to start out with but it never worked when i wanted to.....no i am not flaming agd because like i said they do make some good products

but these companys should try and think of ways to beat this patent im sure tom can think of something amazing but im not a big agd lover such as u guys on here i am more of a smart parts lover ebcause their guins are really nice and have some awsome products

but anyways u guys should really not flame them because im sure if more iogers find this they will be talking about ti over there and both sites will get *POOF* up anyways STOP FLAMING SMART PARTS
im done

[Johnny_Reb]

it wont be the end of electros.

Then again it could be. An etra $75 bucks isnt much but look at how much electro manufacturers are panicing. When ppl buy and electro off online places like pbgear and see in bold letters "Extra $75 charged due to patent infrigement" dont you think that will discourage ppl from buying that product, I do.

[raehl]

If smart parts was indeed the first people to come up with an electronically triggered marker, and the invention is deemed non-obvious...

They're no more evil than Tom is with all of his patents. Patents are there for a reason, and if Smart Parts coming up with an electronically triggerred marker caused a whole bunch of other companies to do the same thing, then yes, all of those other companies who followed their lead owe smart parts some money.

Anyone tried to find a grip frame that extends more than 90 degrees forward for any marker other than an AGD one lately? Anyone wonder why Viewloader has not incorporated belt-drive technology in their hoppers?


- Chris

[No sKiLLz]

Ok, I'm going to rephrase this...
If I lived in Penn I would definately pay Smart Parts a visit with my water balloon launcher and some frozen water balloons

{wink, wink}

[Meph]

Originally posted by logamus
i dont think this is a joke, i just think that there are some out there that see a paintball world with no electros in it and arnt all that upset by it...

Well gee, nice way to look at it.

I could see businesses going under, people losing their jobs, and thousands upon thousands of players losing customer service of their electronic marker after their board fries and then needing to spend hundreds more since all they'll have is a paperweight.

You have to think a little bigger there logamus.

[phatpat47]

Originally posted by Johnny_Reb


Then again it could be. An etra $75 bucks isnt much but look at how much electro manufacturers are panicing. When ppl buy and electro off online places like pbgear and see in bold letters "Extra $75 charged due to patent infrigement" dont you think that will discourage ppl from buying that product, I do.

hah not someone who has heard that smartparts caused this... and it wont say +75 for patent, the companies will have to independently raise it.
also sp is overpriced as it is, so the playing field will be more "even" if anything.

[FalconGuy016]

Originally posted by Black_Dragun2578
ok u guys have no right for saying crap about smart parts they make great products let them do whatever they want to
yes it may mess with some other companys

yes agd has SOME good products i had a classic mag myself to start out with but it never worked when i wanted to.....no i am not flaming agd because like i said they do make some good products

but these companys should try and think of ways to beat this patent im sure tom can think of something amazing but im not a big agd lover such as u guys on here i am more of a smart parts lover ebcause their guins are really nice and have some awsome products

but anyways u guys should really not flame them because im sure if more iogers find this they will be talking about ti over there and both sites will get f***** up anyways STOP FLAMING SMART PARTS
im done

Do you even know what they are trying to patent

[brett]

Anyone tried to find a grip frame that extends more than 90 degrees forward for any marker other than an AGD one lately?

look at bushy's:rolleyes:

[Grayso]

Originally posted by raehl
(Or more likely, sell the markers without barrels, and then make Smart Parts enforce their patent against every player who adds one to their marker individually. ;))


I think thats a pretty good loop hole, even if the patent goes through.

Can they sue individuals for adding parts onto an electronic paintball gun? Even if they could, they're not gonna sue every individual player.

Even if the patent goes through, there will be loopholes.

[nippinout]

Originally posted by brett


look at bushy's:rolleyes:

They were made by Zenitram under license from AGD

[phatpat47]

thats a legit patent on an original idea. Smartparts does not have a legitimate patent. their obtaining of the patent was a mistake on the part of the US patent office.

[jinxed]

Originally posted by raehl
If smart parts was indeed the first people to come up with an electronically triggered marker, and the invention is deemed non-obvious...

- Chris

Thats a good point, except that PVI invented the shocker, and other electro patents predate the shocker anyway.

Same situation with the SP EC, Maxflow, Freak, and Impulse.
None were original, yet they have patents somehow.

Like I said before, the FTC shut down Adam Gardners patent scam that he was doing a while ago.
He is crooked and "knows the ropes".

Nick

[cphilip]

Well I have now truely seen it all.....

[JT2002]

Originally posted by phatpat47
Anti smart parts (http://cleedo.com/nospn.html)

everyone click that link. someone really needs to make that a sticker . ;) :D i know i would buy one in a second and stick it on my hopper. even though i honestly do like smart parts freak barrels, but this is ghey

[magnj]

Not Good

[brett]

but did they have to pay a royalty fee?

[jinxed]

Originally posted by phatpat47
thats a legit patent on an original idea. Smartparts does not have a legitimate patent. their obtaining of the patent was a mistake on the part of the US patent office.

Right-
Someone patented the powerfeed years after Tom invented it by someone else.

I'm sure Tom went, "huh???"

-Nick

[kiolia]

if there are prior patents that invalidate SP's claims, then all we have to do as a community is put all of that information together where it can be accessed by SP's targets, although they are likely doing that now, because if enough info can be put together that SP's claims can be defeated in court then the only money the companies will be out of will be court fees, and then possibly they can counter-suit. Right?

[logamus]

Originally posted by Meph


Well gee, nice way to look at it.

I could see businesses going under, people losing their jobs, and thousands upon thousands of players losing customer service of their electronic marker after their board fries and then needing to spend hundreds more since all they'll have is a paperweight.

You have to think a little bigger there logamus.

no i dont. if i belive (and im not alone here) that things were better off prior to electros why would i be upset? might some companies that have focused totally on the electro struggle to survive, cetainly, but then thats business. as far as players losing support for their markers, that would be the most unfortunate outcome and i would hate to see that happen. perhaps, should this suit win, some sort of arrangement could be made to allow companies to service guns that have already been sold.

i really dont see how sp survives if this suit wins though. the backlash would be so massive that it would be a serious uphill battle for them.

[bojo-master]

i think that smart parts is just screwing themselves, i definitly will never buy a smart parts product again. I even gave away my sp jersy to a little kid at iao

[WickedAirSportz]

Do you have any more information on the case with the FTC shutting down the patent scam? This information could be useful.

[FalconGuy016]

Why is everyone on IOG denying it?

[Black_Dragun2578]

Originally posted by FalconGuy016


Do you even know what they are trying to patent
yes i do know what they are patenting but still u guys have no right for flaming them i mean agd has alot of patents for other crap maybe nothing this big but other companies have copied off them and they should owe them something

[WickedAirSportz]

Why is everyone on IOG denying it?

I don't know, but I will fix that. :)

[Gambit1106]

Now the fact that these are US patents will WDP be affected by this due to the fact that the gun was developed and manufactured outside of the US? I am also unsure on this but since the X-Mag is made in Europe could there be a loophole there?

Darren

[DK1]

Originally posted by WickedAirSportz
Do you have any more information on the case with the FTC shutting down the patent scam? This information could be useful.

yeah, you like apples?

http://www.ftc.gov/os/1997/07/davisb~1.htm

how about them apples? :)

DK1

[DK1]

Originally posted by Gambit1106
Now the fact that these are US patents will WDP be affected by this due to the fact that the gun was developed and manufactured outside of the US? I am also unsure on this but since the X-Mag is made in Europe could there be a loophole there?

Darren

it will cover them. The US is part of a treaty with many nations that basically covers a lot of copyright and patent laws. It basically makes what applies in one country applies in the other. So, you couldn't import X-mags or Angels and sell them here in the US. That's why they can't sell the mag-clones from Austrailia here.

DK1

[jinxed]

Originally posted by WickedAirSportz
Do you have any more information on the case with the FTC shutting down the patent scam? This information could be useful.

Adam Gardner and George Davidson (of Smart Parts) ran "patent submission" scam.
If you had an invention, you would give it to them, with ALOT of money, and they would patent it, and market it. But, they only would do a half-*** job, and pocket most of the money.
Here is the text of the FTC lawsuit (http://www.ftc.gov/os/1997/07/davisb~1.htm)

I'm not sure how it helps the case though.
Sure, it shows they are dishonest, but I think it shows they are very smart lawyers manipulating the system.
So..... probobly a bad thing..

Nick

[Johnny_Reb]

hah not someone who has heard that smartparts caused this... and it wont say +75 for patent, the companies will have to independently raise it.

Well now that I think about it an extra $75 could make a huge difference. Look at Kingman they make cheap low end electros in the 200 range for begginers. If buyers have to pay an extra 75 for Kingman electros it would move Kingman guns to the mid priced electros. Now you could get a a Kingman electro for about 300 or a shocker for about 300, which one are you gonna choose? Most of Kingman's money comes from their cheap electros and if they are raised in price they wont be as appealing to players with smaller budgets. Kingman then loses alot of money. Their options would be to lower the price of their electros which would cause them to lose more money or give up on the electro scene. If Kingman gives up making low end electros that would open a whole new market for SP. They could develop a low cost Impy and monoplize the low end electro area bringing in millions of dollars to SP.

Then we have the mid priced electro scene. Impys alrdy pretty much dominate it as it is, but could become even more popular. When you add 75 to a Bushy taht would make it more expensive than an Impy, and since Impy's and Bushys are alot alike which one are you gonna choose? The cheaper oen of course. Then theres the Evil Omen, that costs about 450 right? When you add 75 to it it then costs 525. Now for about 500 you can get a used Impy or Impy Vision, so again youll take the cheaper one.

Now look what we have, SP now has a firm control on the low and mid range electro scene, resulting in SP making milliosn of dollars and gaining more power in paintball. See what 75 dollars can do?

[Black_Dragun2578]

sorry wickedairsports but idont think u will change our minds

[personman]

So true, so true

[Meph]

Originally posted by Black_Dragun2578
u guys have no right for flaming them

People have every right to boycott Smart Parts all they want. Who are you to tell them they can't?

[GatoLoco]

I feel bad for the smaller companies, as smart parts will be allowed to undercut the competion by at least 75 dollars. This could lead to the termination or at least damaging of several companies that thrive on electronic markers such as ICD, WAS, NYxtreme, and multiple custom shops. This is disgusting,forcing people to either cough up more money, or the destruction of many shops. This is no laughing matter, and if the patent holds overseas, Racegun and WDP quite possibly will take a big hit.:mad:

[WickedAirSportz]

If the rumor is correct, it's just not $75 per marker. There would be a 1 millon dollar signing fee before any units could be sold at all.

[252]

Oh man, thats gunna stir up some trouble....
I would'nt want to be SP right now...

BTW, i was going to buy a Freak, but the Evil Pipe looks awful good right now!

[breg]

Originally posted by AGD
People let me tell you, this is VERY VERY REAL. If you don't believe it, call Smart Parts directly and ask them if they have the patent rights on all electronic guns.

Why do you think we have been working on the ULE Trigger?

AGD

So, what does this mean to people who own electronic guns? I hope that is doesn't mean that they are going to stop the production of all other electronic gun?

I suggest that we as paintball palyers, boycott any and all Smart Parts gear until this madness stops.
I guess that we know where Smart Parts interests lie: in the Money only.

---- Smart Parts.

[Johnny_Reb]

Oh man, thats gunna stir up some trouble.... I wouldnt want to be SP right now..

Why not? If they make the right moves they could make millions of dollars.(See my post)

[phatpat47]

Johnny your forgetting all of the emotion that goes into buy a gun. When a noobie goes to a field, he looks at what guns the guys with jersies have.
These guys are informed, and know that SP is a bad company, so they dont have shockers or impulses, they payed the extra 75 for a timmy or angel. Noobie starts to dislike SP because of how bad everybody at the fields rips on them. There not going to want to be the guy everyone gets mad at for have the sp gun.

In conclusion, they will not be able to dominate the scene. The players wont let them.

[superdesk2007]

Will AGD start making X-mags without electronics?

[Harbinger[TG]]

**** SP, that is complete ****e. It would be like colt suing everyone with triggers and .45 grip frames

[DK1]

here's a little fat for the fire... I posted it on the TG already.
How about detailed (even with ASCII art) instructions on how to build a electronically controlled paintball cannon from 1994? Btw, the person who posted that claimed to have just delayed the writing, but had the plans back in 1993.


http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=Csv9qG.6qx%40zimmer.CSUFresno.EDU&rnum=1

isn't that interesting? So who really thinks that SP really invented the electropneumatic?

DK1

[PAINTMAN112]

Originally posted by WickedAirSportz
If the rumor is correct, it's just not $75 per marker. There would be a 1 millon dollar signing fee before any units could be sold at all.

you said it yourself its a rumor, things like happen quite often in several industries, how often do the big companies win.. look at microsoft? if sp wins this patent lawsuit whocares they will most likely control the marker market via monopoly then get broken up that way. Sure they are wrong for doing this, but is it likely they will win no, and if its only a rumor why worry about it?

[Johnny_Reb]

I doubt anyone will get mad at ppl for having an SP gun. And not all fields are in "the know" some of the major fields will act like you said but the majority of fields that arent normally with the current events will still continue to support SP.

[Kai]

Reb is right, SP stands to make alot of money with this venture.

While we can all say that we will not uphold the electro scene if this goes down, I don't think we can speak for the hardcore tourney players.

They play to win. I can see most of them putting aside company loyalties and such in order to get the winning edge.

Still...this doesn't sit well with me. I can only hope that things go well for the rest of us, and SP loses the lawsuits.

We will just have to wait and see.

*Edit* This thread should be stickied.

[la690]

Was this situation talked about at IAO during the meeting of the industry heads? TK, oh noble leader, what can AO and the rest of the paintball community do to fight Smart Parts?:mad:

[cockermongol]

How will this effect eBlade frames? They are sold separately from the guns.

[GatoLoco]

Originally posted by WickedAirSportz
If the rumor is correct, it's just not $75 per marker. There would be a 1 millon dollar signing fee before any units could be sold at all.
.
One million dollars!!!!!! That is utterly rediculous. By the time many of these companies cough up that money, they would be out. This is a dirty, dirty move, and I hope Smart Parts not only loses, but gets counter-sued!

[Harbinger[TG]]

Power to the People
Down w/ Smart Parts

I still dont see how they could even get a patent, must be some backasswards locale

[paintball man 222]

i have not read through the whole 5 pages, but what i know is you are not requiered to patent a name if you have used it for over 3 years, would the same apply to mechanical/computer patent?

[Prairie]

http://www.midatlanticpb.com/sp/

Freely distribute the contents of that page, rehost, do whatever.

If you have updated the package..send it, or a new one back to me.

[phatpat47]

They closed the thread at IOG, but I opened another:
OLD
http://www.impulseownersgroup.com/v...&threadid=22345

NEW
http://www.impulseownersgroup.com/v...&threadid=22357

johnny Im not going to argue anymore we have differing oppinions of what will happen, I guess we will just have to see.

But I do stand by what I said that Smart Parts will not controll the paintball market completely EVER.

[Mav D MagMan]

I dont' know if it's been said in this thread yet but if this goes through and kills electronic paintmarkers all I'll have to say is:

"...And they said mechanical markers were a dieing breed"

This isn't going to kill paintball (unless SP goes farther) it's just going to stunt it a little (until we find a way around it).

We've already survived how many years without electros?

Mav

[Johnny_Reb]

Well if you guys remember SP has been pushing for this for a long time. But look at it from their point of view: They invent the electro gun only to have others copy and make millions of dollars. You make the first switicable bore barrel only to have others copy it. You can see why there upset, put yourself in their shoes and think what you would do.

EDIT:
completely Now I never said completely, I said they would have a firm hold on some areas of the paintball market but not a total monoply, but if you dont want to argue anymore I respect your wishes.:D ;)

[robertjuric]

I wanna see how this pans out. Im all for a SP boycott, although not many people on AO use SP in the 1st place, but still.

Uhh...I dont know how to say this, but if we need any uhhhh taken out...pm me. :)

[Doc Nickel]

It's not "just" another $75.

If the rumor is true, and SP demands a $1Million licensing fee... well, as an example, if the company only sells 20,000 markers under that license, that's another $50 per marker, for a total cost increase of $125.

You know who pays that? You do. When you buy the gun. Increased costs of manufacturing are always passed on to the consumer.

How about those special-edition Timmies or C&C Angels? What if Delta has to buy another $1 Million license to make a run of only 400 Lasoya Intimidators?

That's $2,500 per gun just in licensing fees. What's a Lasoya going for, $1,600? That makes for a grand total of a $4,175 marker.

What if your only choice was a $3,000 Angel or a $750 Shocker 4X4 that weighs a pound and half more and gets a quarter the shots per tank?

This is a good thing?

Doc.

[jinxed]

Originally posted by DK1
here's a little fat for the fire... I posted it on the TG already.
How about detailed (even with ASCII art) instructions on how to build a electronically controlled paintball cannon from 1994? Btw, the person who posted that claimed to have just delayed the writing, but had the plans back in 1993.


Nice work!
Here are 3 posts about electros from 1994:
Electro Automag from 1994 (http://groups.google.com/groups?q=solinoid+group:rec.sport.paintball&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&as_drrb=b&as_mind=12&as_minm=5&as_miny=1981&as_maxd=21&as_maxm=7&as_maxy=1995&selm=3erkr5%248ss%40eccdb1.pms.ford.com&rnum=1)
Electro Cocker from 1994 (http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=3ermbg%24hid%40mcmail.cis.McMaster.CA&rnum=9&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dsolenoid%2Bgroup:rec.sport.paintball% 26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26as_drrb%3Db%26as_mind%3D12%26as_minm%3D5%26as_ miny%3D1981%26as_maxd%3D21%26as_maxm%3D7%26as_maxy %3D1995%26selm%3D3ermbg%2524hid%2540mcmail.cis.McM aster.CA%26rnum%3D9)
A bolt-on E-GRIP from 1994 (http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=3mvl0m%24s5r%40newsbf02.news.aol.com)

So, like you said...
"how about them apples!".

(By the way, I'm mentioned in one of those threads...)

Nick

[robertjuric]

SP invented the electro gun? Or did they steal it and got mad b/c everyone else follow suit?

[darklord]

Perhaps cockers and mags will dominate the scene once again? :confused:

[robertjuric]

chuff chuff

[adam shannon]

imo where patent law fails is when an outrageously broad patent claim is used to supress competition...or just for profit.

as an example. there is a company in CA whole sole business is buying little known or used patents and trying to make them applicable to a wide scope and sueing and/or extorting people who use products that violate that patent...not the makers of the products...the users.

they bought a patent that dealt with what is now e-comerce. ie. any digital means of making a monetary transaction. this patent was from the early 80's or late seventies and given up by the inventor because the concept was outdated by the time it was patented. they used it to sue small mom and pop websites who sell stuff online...not paypal, ebay, or online banks...the users because they dont have the $ to fight...they roll over and pay.

now they have bought the patent on digital distribution of imagery. ie. jpeg, mpeg, qt, gif, any digital media format. this patent was filed way before there were any images on the precursor to the internet...just another idea patented and tossed in a file for future use. well this company bought it and are now sueing small adult oriented websites. why go after the little guys? why not sue apple and microsoft who make the tools to make and distribute digital images? because the little guys cant fight...and nobody in that comunity has or will get any public support or political help fighting the suits. so they have to pay 50% of their yearly profits or cease and decist using digital images.

BUT the big plot is once the easiest victims have rolled over and the precident has been set that the patent is valid...then they can go after the multi billion dollar companies. thats the grand scheme and final goal. and why our patent system is really wacked. you can have a patent and just wait till the time is right to cash in.

imo smart parts are looking to force everybody else to pay or go under leaving them at the top of the hill. this from a company who never invented anything for themselves. they bought or stole every patent they hold.

they are after the big prize. if they win they can go after every company who ever made an electro. what they really want is the back damages...$75 from every electro sold back to the day of the patent filing. that would even hurt kingman!

this is one fiasco that has to have bud sittin back on his harley chuckling.

[Pump Scout]

Word is out. There have been posts on many of the boards I frequent, and we're telling everyone we know. Tippmann's forums, the Tinker's Guild, IPR, here, PBN. Keep spreading the word, both online and on the field. We don't have to take it, and we can voice our opinions with our dollars.

[Johnny_Reb]

Good points Doc.

I think it becomes obvious to us now that if SP wins this suit many companies will go out of business. WDP for their Angel, Bob Long for his Timmies, Kingman will lose a lot of money with the increased price of their electros which could result in them going out of buisness.

[Mav D MagMan]

Sounds more like they were just the first to patent one with an on/off switch. Which screws the guys who were already maken em.

Mav

[phatpat47]

exactly, I dont see how anyone can put a positive spin on this.

[robertjuric]

HAHAHA IOG is down, guess it got flooded. LMFAO

[robertjuric]

oops nvm guess i had bad link

[Johnny_Reb]

Perhaps cockers and mags will dominate the scene once again?

Hmmmmmm or maybe not. If the electro market goes down you can expect to see alot of super semis go on the market. Super fast mechs that can compete with electros. Kinda intresting when you think about it huh?

[No sKiLLz]

Originally posted by Johnny_Reb
They invent the electro gun only to have others copy and make millions of dollars. You make the first switicable bore barrel only to have others copy it. You can see why there upset, put yourself in their shoes and think what you would do.



Aiiiiiing!!! WRONG!

Do you read any other posts but yours? Who invented the electro? And who started the switchable bore? NOT SP. Looks like Navy started electros and OTP had sleeves first. BTW, my friend has a SP impy and it sucks. :p

[Harbinger[TG]]

I love all this crap from a company that wasnt even around for pumps and pistols...WTF they are like a 10yr old company

[_Spork_1]

Originally posted by PAINTMAN112


you said it yourself its a rumor, things like happen quite often in several industries, how often do the big companies win.. look at microsoft? if sp wins this patent lawsuit whocares they will most likely control the marker market via monopoly then get broken up that way. Sure they are wrong for doing this, but is it likely they will win no, and if its only a rumor why worry about it?


THE LAWSUIT ISN'T A RUMOR IT'S REAL, THE MILLION DOLLOR SIGHNING FEE IS.


this is something to worry about, if they got this far, whats to say they wont make it all the way(peopel saying that their patent is to broad and stuff)\



this is outrageous

[phatpat47]

iog not down there just closing all the threads

[Johnny_Reb]

True No skillz but Shockers were the first to really catch on, and as most ppl see it they invented the first electro.

[-=Squid=-]

Please dont tell me that I have to sell the freak for a pipe...

[Prairie]

Trying to keep this page updated as much as possible.

Submit your pics.

[845]

Originally posted by Animal Mother


Yeahhhhhh!! And I'll save the twins so they will forver be in debt to me.

heh heh... :D


Oh no you wont I will shoot u in the knee caps and save em before u can waddle over there. I will let u save the wierd one with the freaky piercings.

[jinxed]

Originally posted by Harbinger[TG]
I love all this crap from a company that wasnt even around for pumps and pistols...WTF they are like a 10yr old company

They made a pump called the "Boss".
Basically, a generic nelson clone.

I think it came out in 1989?

Nick

[robertjuric]

cant we just get around this by coming up w/ a new device(or name) for something that breaks the current? Like a manuall circuit breaker?

or does the patent cover the principle of the switch to?

[DK1]

Originally posted by Mav D MagMan
Sounds more like they were just the first to patent one with an on/off switch. Which screws the guys who were already maken em.

Mav

nah, not really. You can't patent something that's already being made by someone else, or is in the public domain. Just because SP has a patent doesn't mean it's worth anything. It will go to trial, that's where the decision will be made on what SP really owns the rights to.


as for the price of guns going up, Doc is absolutely right unless you just want to be real nitpicky. Price passed onto consumer eventually is decided by price elasticity of demand, but is generally very lopsided (some companies might choose to actually lower their percentage, but it won't be much in comparison). So, for all intents and purposes, you will see all the fees rolled right over into the price. IE, if SP wins, most companies will go out of business because no one will pay $3000 for their stuff.

Guess what happens then? Do you think SP will charge more or less when no one else is allowed to compete with them? Yup, just because they can sell their gun for $600 and still make money doesn't mean they won't jack it to $1000 when everyone else is gone. They won't do it with the same model, but when the new and improved comes out, you can bet your butt it'll come with a nice shiney new price tag to go with it. SO, this suit will then apply not only to those who hate SP, but also those who buy their products.

Welcome to the market where you have a producer with no competitors.

DK1

[Johnny_Reb]

If you ask me SP is sending a serious message to the players"DONT MESS WITH SP!" Now if SP could do this to other companies this could psyche out alot of players. Ppl wont feel safe buying non SP electros, thusly resulting in increased gun sales for SP.

[phatpat47]

yep squid thats pretty much it...
hes going to leave my thread open though. Discussion over there might actoually be a little more impactfull if thats a word.
http://www.impulseownersgroup.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=22357

[No sKiLLz]

Originally posted by Johnny_Reb
True No skillz but Shockers were the first to really catch on, and as most ppl see it they invented the first electro.

Catch on? Is that like "Since Coke sells more than Pepsi every year it gives them the right to aquire patents on soft drinks?"

Last time I checked, Angels were the first electro to "flood" the scene.

[Johnny_Reb]

or does the patent cover the principle of the switch to? Lol didnt you hear robert SP patented electricty:p

[Johnny_Reb]

Last time I checked, Angels were the first electro to "flood" the scene. Um No. Angels had a huge impact on the electro scene but Shockers had alrdy made a giant impact before them man.

[Harbinger[TG]]

Originally posted by jinxed


They made a pump called the "Boss".
Basically, a generic nelson clone.

I think it came out in 1989?

Nick

Really, i didnt know that. I remember the old nelspot days...good times...I dont remember nelson trying to sue everyone back then, but i was a kid

[phatpat47]

well i have school toomorow, but good luck with the fight. If I were a laywer id try to help you out.

[WickedAirSportz]

Well if you guys remember SP has been pushing for this for a long time. But look at it from their point of view: They invent the electro gun only to have others copy and make millions of dollars. You make the first switicable bore barrel only to have others copy it.

The problem here is that Smart Parts did not invent either of these. Do a patent search yourself and you will see what we mean!

[TransMan]

One more thing the rest of the Paintball companies can use against SP is Advertising. Think of where just about all teh paintball advertising is... thats right Magazines now when flipping through them what do u see mostly BE and Kingman with WDP WGP and AGD in there too. Now lets say that all the paintball companies got together and said hey every painball mag out there we are not going to buy advertising if u allow SP to advertise as well. What are the mags gonna do lose most of there money or cut SP out and lose a very minimal amout compared to that of losing everyone else. Im sure SP doesnt have the mney to buy up all the advertising of Kingman, Tippmann, BE, AGD, WDP, WGP, AGD, and all of the other....

I think this is very serious but there is just too much going again SP for this to get much further as long as we and everyone in the world of paintball stand up agains them.

[Harbinger[TG]]

Originally posted by WickedAirSportz


The problem here is that Smart Parts did not invent either of these. Do a patent search yourself and you will see what we mean!

Then how the hell has it come this far?... Your way more conected to the industry than we are; thank you for all the knowledgeble posts and info. We really appreciate it. That goes for everyone helping the cause.

Kevin

[No sKiLLz]

Originally posted by Johnny_Reb
If you ask me SP is sending a serious message to the players"DONT MESS WITH SP!" Now if SP could do this to other companies this could psyche out alot of players. Ppl wont feel safe buying non SP electros, thusly resulting in increased gun sales for SP.

Whatever you are smoking, Johnny, please be good enough to share with the rest of us. And for your own good, don't fall asleep in economics class.

BTW, just cuz some of your local buddies picked up a few shockers back in the day doesn't mean the majority of the paintball world did.

[Johnny_Reb]

The problem here is that Smart Parts did not invent either of these. Do a patent search yourself and you will see what we mean! If you had to do a search to figure out who invented the first electro chances are SP has a good chance of winning the case.

[845]

Originally posted by Johnny_Reb
Lol didnt you hear robert SP patented electricty:p

and Al Gore invented the internet :rolleyes:

[Johnny_Reb]

BTW, just cuz some of your local buddies picked up a few shockers back in the day doesn't mean the majority of the paintball world did. Well actually none of my friends own shockers but thats besides the point. If you knew anything about the past of paintball(which youve alrdy proven you dont) you would know that Shockers were very popular when they were relaesed.

[No sKiLLz]

Originally posted by Johnny_Reb
If you had to do a search to figure out who invented the first electro chances are SP has a good chance of winning the case.

Wow. Any comments? Anyone?

[Trauma]

I agree that its total bs that smartparts is trying to pull this off, but for everyone that actually owns an electro right now, you have nothing to worry about, I mean they aren't gonna take it from u and give u an impulse or something

[Conqueror]

Another point worth mentioning is that SP didn't even have the first paintgun with a switch. All shockers that were produced under an SP-only patent came with no on-off switches until several years after the start of the "electro revolution".

Something you all may be forgetting to take into account is the ever-present threat of out-of-court settlements. SP no doubt has a large legal budget, one which may outweigh the entire operating budgets of some of the companies which are going to come under fire due to this new patent expansion. Faced with paying a royalty on each marker and raising the prices on their guns, or losing gangantuan amounts of money in legal fees to try and defend themselves, some may choose the former over the latter. I'd be more worried about companies tanking from exorbitant legal fees than the actual lawsuit itself... there's too much prior art and pre-existing technology for the patent to stand before a competent judge, not to mention the shady pasts of the Gardners and George Davidson - which are relevant in such a trial.

CQ

[Webmaster]

I havent read this whole thread - but it doesnt surprise me. Its status quo. The have been quietly in the process of suing people who I consider friends at ICD.

They fail to innovate - only impersonate.

Furthermore - if they try to enforce thier broad patent they are personally kicking every person in the sport square in the nuts.

Tom Kaye, Tippmann, Palmer, Orr - they all have made inventions in this sport that caused it to grow and progress as a whole. They didnt capitalize on it - they allowed thier innovations to be used and bring the sport out of the stone ages.

I think doc nickle has a great post here:

http://www.network54.com/Hide/Forum/message?forumid=9013&messageid=1058842375

Personally - I have been anti smart parts for 3-4 years.

And if they most to further enforce their patent - I give them a big heafty screw you.

[No sKiLLz]

Originally posted by Johnny_Reb
Well actually none of my friends own shockers but thats besides the point. If you knew anything about the past of paintball(which youve alrdy proven you dont) you would know that Shockers were very popular when they were relaesed.

Where's your proof? You have no idea how long I've been playing paintball. Popular in what sense? http://www.ivillage.co.uk/ivillageuk/articles/0,10231,161171_182561,00.html Here, try this real quick. :D

[snoogans]

as part of the celebration, i took my hard to get time to make a special picture for us all! take a looksee!

[rx2]

A lot of people here seem to be under the assumption that this needn't be taken seriously as SP would not dare do something like that. I think that is being a bit too optimistic.

While many lawsuits are frivilous and poorly thought out, it would be safe to assume that this is not one of them. Consider that the SP guys have experience with patent law. Also consider the position they are in. Now, I can not imagine that such a company would not have thought out and weighed the benefits vs. the potential losses. We here were not the first to think lawsuit = boycott. You can bet they have already factored in the possibility that there would be a large segment of the buying public that would be very angry with them, and I am sure they know how far some are willing to go. They know full well that they may take a hit intially. However, I am sure they have been busy analyzing their sales trends, and have probably reasoned such that
A) The hit they take won't be big enough to cause significant fiscal harm, such that they would be threatened in any way
B) The hit they do take would be negated many times over by the potential profit they will make.

Now, I can't speculate on how this will pan out. However; I may be pessimistic; I must assume that IF SP plans to carry out this suit as we have been speculating, they not only feel confident that they can and will win, but that any negative publicity and initial loss of sales would be absorbed and negated in the long term.

To distill things, I think that unless we are all frighteningly proactive about this, SP WILL sue. The suit may not end they way they wish, but they will certainly try.

[Ov3rmind]

AGD really should patent compressed air for paintball guns, then SP can bow down from it's Nazi perch and kiss AGD's ***.

This is terrible, any company who takes money over the sport they market for does not deserve a profit at all. From here on out, I will NEVER buy a single SP product ever. And just incase and SP head honchos stumble across this, I am going to advise everyone I play with and other people at my local fields to do the same.

[No sKiLLz]

Originally posted by Conqueror
Another point worth mentioning is that SP didn't even have the first paintgun with a switch. All shockers that were produced under an SP-only patent came with no on-off switches until several years after the start of the "electro revolution".

Something you all may be forgetting to take into account is the ever-present threat of out-of-court settlements. SP no doubt has a large legal budget, one which may outweigh the entire operating budgets of some of the companies which are going to come under fire due to this new patent expansion. Faced with paying a royalty on each marker and raising the prices on their guns, or losing gangantuan amounts of money in legal fees to try and defend themselves, some may choose the former over the latter. I'd be more worried about companies tanking from exorbitant legal fees than the actual lawsuit itself... there's too much prior art and pre-existing technology for the patent to stand before a competent judge, not to mention the shady pasts of the Gardners and George Davidson - which are relevant in such a trial.

CQ
If the defendant wins the suit, the plaintiff has to pay all legal fees on both sides of the table. FYI.

[snoogans]

SMART PARTS...THE DEVIL IS COMING FOR U, THE QUIJA BOARD SAYS SO!!!:mad:

[No sKiLLz]

Originally posted by rx2
A lot of people here seem to be under the assumption that this needn't be taken seriously as SP would not dare do something like that. I think that is being a bit too optimistic.

While many lawsuits are frivilous and poorly thought out, it would be safe to assume that this is not one of them. Consider that the SP guys have experience with patent law. Also consider the position they are in. Now, I can not imagine that such a company would not have thought out and weighed the benefits vs. the potential losses. We here were not the first to think lawsuit = boycott. You can bet they have already factored in the possibility that there would be a large segment of the buying public that would be very angry with them, and I am sure they know how far some are willing to go. They know full well that they may take a hit intially. However, I am sure they have been busy analyzing their sales trends, and have probably reasoned such that
A) The hit they take won't be big enough to cause significant fiscal harm, such that they would be threatened in any way
B) The hit they do take would be negated many times over by the potential profit they will make.

Now, I can't speculate on how this will pan out. However; I may be pessimistic; I must assume that IF SP plans to carry out this suit as we have been speculating, they not only feel confident that they can and will win, but that any negative publicity and initial loss of sales would be absorbed and negated in the long term.

Ur missing the point. If SP wins, they are under NO obligation to produce anything. They collect royalties and licensing fees from other people who care enough about making markers to continue, and the most effort they ever have to exert is walking to the mailbox to pull out the check (unless they have direct deposit).

[rx2]

No_Skillz, you are missing the point (of my post, that is). I never said that they would continue to produce products, or even speculated. I stated that they believe that they will profit in the long run, despite possible bumps along the way.

The point is that many people here feel this will be a bad thing, but they also feel that sending letters or boycotting will stop it, which it most likely won't.

Sorry for the confusion.

(BTW, I saw an earlier post of yours where you said that boycotting would be useless, so we actually agree).

[Kid_A]

I wonder how this is going to affect the resale value of my freak :rolleyes: ...freakin smart parts!

[july_favre]

Are they any plans for the companies to come together and help eachother fight SP before they can get anything rolling? If these companies waited too long to fight a common foe(for every player) it might be too late.

[TransMan]

Originally posted by Kid_A
I wonder how this is going to affect the resale value of my freak :rolleyes: ...freakin smart parts!

Well seing as how we are not Positive about everything at this point... i will give ya 20$ :D

[Ov3rmind]

Originally posted by rx2
The point is that many people here feel this will be a bad thing, but they also feel that sending letters or boycotting will stop it, which it most likely won't.
If by letters you mean pipe bombs........

[No sKiLLz]

Originally posted by rx2
No_Skillz, you are missing the point (of my post, that is). I never said that they would continue to produce products, or even speculated. I stated that they believe that they will profit in the long run, despite possible bumps along the way.

The point is that many people here feel this will be a bad thing, but they also feel that sending letters or boycotting will stop it, which it most likely won't.

Sorry for the confusion.

(BTW, I saw an earlier post of yours where you said that boycotting would be useless, so we actually agree). I feel you dog. We both had the same point. Smart Parts ia going to end up fat and happy as long as they win this suit.

[Harbinger[TG]]

Originally posted by Ov3rmind

If by letters you mean pipe bombs........
now noone is actually saying that:D

[Vampyr]

It seems to me, if they win, the first thing to do is to petition NPPL and any other major paintball leagues to ban "electros" due to the "miss use" of the power of the boards.

Hmm, didn't that start with SP as well? Add up those switch bounces...

[No sKiLLz]

Originally posted by Ov3rmind

If by letters you mean pipe bombs........
We've had differences in the past, but I have to agree...


Originally posted by No sKiLLz we may as well go Al-Queda on Smart Parts.

[rx2]

Pipe-bombs? You may be on to something. I already have a beard, a windbreaker, and aviator sunglasses. Now all I need is a shack in the woods and I can start building away...

[S.S bandit AL]

i didnt have time to read all of the thread but wouldnt we have to stop using freaks comon' i know i am not just goin to let all the money i spent on it go to waste its the only sp thing i have... so from now on i will not get anything sp

[No sKiLLz]

Originally posted by rx2
Pipe-bombs? You may be on to something. I already have a beard, a windbreaker, and aviator sunglasses. Now all I need is a shack in the woods and I can start building away...

Well you can't untill you pay me royalties, cuz I just applied for a pipe bomb patent.:p

[harpo568]

anyone on here an attourney?
just curious...
IF we could find a good (and hopefully Pro Bono) lawyer maybe we could bleed SP dry with a bunch of "frivilous lawsuits" over their products..
I can think of one right now...the freak barrel..the inserts are marked with a bore size and more often than not they aren't the size marked...which meas they are falsely advertised.
get a couple hundred people filing individually just over that in a few different states and jurisdictions and run the SP lawyers around and maybe it will be like the old story of the ants taking the giant down...
just imagine what a couple thousand P-O'd paintball players and a few attournies could do to them...

I can see the headlines now
MASS SUICIDE AT SMART PARTS HEADQUARTERS
Follow that with a sub header under that
COMPANY EXECUTIVES AND ATTOURNIES COMIT MASS SUICIDE OVER TIDE OF LAWSUITS AIMED AT SMART PARTS

[TransMan]

the way i see it what we have bought from SP in the past is done and we cant change that now so now what we do is not buy anyhting else from them ;)

[No sKiLLz]

Originally posted by harpo568
anyone on here an attourney?

I can see the headlines now
MASS SUICIDE AT SMART PARTS HEADQUARTERS
Follow that with a sub header under that
COMPANY EXECUTIVES AND ATTOURNIES COMIT MASS SUICIDE OVER TIDE OF LAWSUITS AIMED AT SMART PARTS

We don't want that. Isn't it better to have them grabbing their ankles in a Penn State prison shower?:D

[joker4hire]

Wow.. crazy stuff... but other than bitc... uhh.. complaining about it.. is there anything else we can really do?...

[Vampyr]

Plant evidence that they were selling the boards to Iraq and N Korea and see if we can get them sent to Guantanamo Bay? There seems to be a witch hunt going on yet in this country, just got to get the natives with their pitchforks and torches to march that way.

(Joking... Unless there are any CIA ops around...)

[hAppy]

hmm
im a failure in school, and a dumass, please tell me
from what i thought i "knew"

i always thought that you can only patent something you invented... from what i know, SP didnt invent an on/off switch

[Ov3rmind]

Originally posted by No sKiLLz

We've had differences in the past, but I have to agree...


Yeah, this unites most of us simply for the fact that all of our favorite guns could be in danger of extinction.

Which makes me think, what does Espo think?

[breg]

This is really getting to me. How can a company who wants to make the paintball world a bigger place do something like this?

AGD keeps saying that this is no laughing matter. I REALLY have to agree with him. Just think of what this could do to you and your marker. Or what this could do to your local fields, pro shops, on line stores, and companies. That $75 royality could really put the hurt on a lot of folks.

[XVFrontplayer]

lets write them angry letters. http://www.smartparts.com/spcontact.htm

wouldnt it be crazy if b/c all of this SP went the way of the dinosar and noobs of tommaro would see freak kits and impulses and shoeboxes and be all like "whats a smart parts" and we will roll our eyes and sit them down and tell them of the story....think about it....haha.
:p

[Nick O time]

i don't know much about this sort of thing, but wouldn't this be a monopoly because it is preventing anyone to make new things and such. i heard it was hard for people to press charges against Microsoft, becuase they kept on making newer and better things, so if SP failed to do so it would be easier to file a suit for monopoly or something.

remember i am not to big on this sort of thing, but that is some of the stuff i remember learning about in the economics part of our history class.

[ramennoodles]

ATTENTION ALL AO'ers DUR members or concerned paintballers, this is what i plan on sending to the smart parts company i would like it if you would read the whole thing then post a reply or pm me. thank you.

MY RESPONSE (http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=921621#post921621)

scrath that, it seams as though it has been removed, i do not mind this is not my server space, but to whoever removed it, could you please enlighten me as to the reason it was removed?

[Nastyimp13]

First off, I wanna say i love smart parts guns and parts. i have never had any problems with them. I dont not agree with the patent. But it does make sense if they are a company in competion with other companies.

LONG LIFE SMART PARTS!

[Ov3rmind]

Originally posted by Nastyimp13
First off, I wanna say i love smart parts guns and parts. i have never had any problems with them. I dont not agree with the patent. But it does make sense if they are a company in competion with other companies.

LONG LIFE SMART PARTS!
Yeah, I'm all for companies increasing profits, but when it hurts the sport as much as this might, that's when I think they have crossed the line. They have blatantly showed they could care less for paintball, it's all about the cold hard cash. How could you support that?

[spacedtedybear]

I think the all the major PB marker companies should ban together, pool their collective resources and information on electric operated paintball markers that predates the SP patent. Almost every PB marker company, whether big or small, had contributed something to revolutionized PB. The Webmasters link to DOC's thread is a clear example.

[Doc Nickel]

Okay, first, we only know of this $75 fee as a rumor. But, coming from a company that sold $100 Shocker circuit boards and $200 FA circuit boards where the only difference was a single miniature switch, I doubt it's off by much, if at all.

The problem is, if it is indeed a major license fee- even half a million is serious coin even for larger companies like AGD and W'Orr Games- plus a per-unit royalty, that's a great big hit.

Look at the Advent. The gun's an obvious rough prototype, and OTB is, while an established company, a very small established company.

Do you think the Advent will get released if OTB has to fork out $1,015,000 just in licensing and royalties for the first run of 200 guns? Which, of course, doesn't even count the actual production costs, material costs and what they have invested in R&D.

Look at the ICE Epic. The inventor of that is trying to do it himself, or in a low-cost, low-volume way. Movin' right along, isn't he? Ever seen one on the field?

Now think of what would have happened if he'd had to pay a million bucks just for the rights to produce it, before he'd ever made a single production unit.

Look at Thorpydo in the Workshop forum. Made his own gun, sounds like he's thinking of trying to produce it. Any bets that he doesn't have around $1,000,000 to pay SP for the privlege of producing more?

Basically we'd say goodbye to any new designs from anyone but maybe Kingman, and of course SP themselves.

Doc.

[Nastyimp13]

yeah i guess they dont care about paintball very much. But as for a business move, they are genius. If all the companies ban together it still wont do much.

[Ov3rmind]

Yeah, and the worst part is this comes at a time when some companies are coming out with some really nice looking new guns (Advent, Isis, Alien, DYE Matrix, etc.).

[Nastyimp13]

Yeah but i dont know about the advent, i dont like the looks of that gun very much.

[Nastyimp13]

and to your comment about dye. Look at dye, they bought out the matrix just so they could have there name on a gun that is getting more popular. And from what ive seen to it, all it looks like they are doing to it is giving it some milling and the rt eye. And i bet that gun will cost about 1200.

[f3rr3+]

i for one would like to hear alot more from Mr.Kaye then the 2 posts hes posted... i know hes busy but i think a little insight from him would put alot of us at ease...

[e mag]

if this is true and SP goes through with it, couldnt AGD just patent the use of nitrogen tanks and then not let SP use it? that way even if SP was the only one who could make electros they would only be able to use co2.

[TransMan]

Originally posted by e mag
if this is true and SP goes through with it, couldnt AGD just patent the use of nitrogen tanks and then not let SP use it? that way even if SP was the only one who could make electros they would only be able to use co2.
Prob wouldnt bother them if u want to play a whoel game with a shoker u better be using a 20oz Co2 tank :D

[kevdupuis]

And some people wonder why I've refused to buy anything SP for the past three years.

[Triath]

I've yet to see any solid piece of information about this. So until they release something, like a press release or something, Ill just be ignoring everything until there is official news about this from a reliable source.

[ramennoodles]

there they just deleted another post, about bud orr. (they also deleted my letter post) arg!

[raehl]

Originally posted by Doc Nickel
Okay, first, we only know of this $75 fee as a rumor. But, coming from a company that sold $100 Shocker circuit boards and $200 FA circuit boards where the only difference was a single miniature switch, I doubt it's off by much, if at all.

I don't mean to pick a fight or anything, or mply I don't agree with the general principle, but this is a crappy example. This is *EXACTLY* the way smart parts should have marketed the products, and there is NOTHING evil about doing this. What you're missing is that the alternative to selling a semi board for $100 and a semi board with a microswitch for $200 is selling a semi board for $150 and a full auto board for $200. Saying that they were charging $100 for a microswith is misleading - they were charging less for a(n updated) semi board by using a crippled full auto board instead of an entirely separate run.

Even if they could have sold full auto boards for $150, why should they? Companies are not supposed to charge the lowest price possible, they're supposed to charge the price that maximizes their profits.


Personally, I think it'd be pretty cool if we all ended up playing stock because of this. Go Smart Parts!


- Chris

[Nastyimp13]

I agree they should sell products to make profit. But once one company drops there prices, another company has to drop its prices or they dont sell anything so then no company makes much profit because they are selling too low.

[Doc Nickel]

I agree, you're exactly right.

I think we've all known for years that it doesn't cost DYE $100 to make a BoomStick, and they only mark it up $15 or $20. The truth is the other way around- it probably costs less than $15 per barrel and they mark it up $100.

We're used to it.

The point is, if SP has the power to arbitrarily set a licensing fee and/or royalty fee to whatever they feel like, who's to say they won't tell Kingman they only want $500,000 (since the E-Spyders really aren't in the Impy or Shocker's class) but then tell WDP they want $12,000,000 plus $150 per unit royalty on Angels, basically completely wiping out the Shocker's main competition?

My example was just to illustrate that we can be pretty sure SP won't be asking only a "token" license and royalty- say, $10,000 and $5 each for an established gun like the Bushy. Rather, we can pretty much guarantee that they'll ask a bloody fortune, driving ICD out of business and leaving the Impulse with no competition (in which case they'll crank up the price to $1,100- after all, what other gun ya gonna buy?)


I've yet to see any solid piece of information about this. So until they release something, like a press release or something, Ill just be ignoring everything until there is official news about this from a reliable source.

What, Tom Kaye isn't a reliable enough source? Check the first page of this very thread for a post by "AGD". Plus, in his second post, he reiterates the seriousness, and explains that this patent threat is the reason they've been developing the ULE ultralight mechanical trigger system.

Doc.

[DiRTyBuNNy]

I don't know why this thought came across my mind...but I really want to give WAS a hug right now...oh well...

[FSU_Paintball]

Originally posted by raehl
Personally, I think it'd be pretty cool if we all ended up playing stock because of this. Go Smart Parts!


- Chris

Well, there goes much of my respect for the NCPA's leadership. I really hope that was said in jest, not in a serious manner.

[raehl]

How about the US Patent and Trademark Office?

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=0&f=S&l=50&TERM1=smart+parts&FIELD1=&co1=AND&TERM2=&FIELD2=&d=ptxt

That at least demonstrates that they have the actual patents.


Note on earlier comment: Tom can no longer patent compressed air regulation - you generally have to file patents within one year of invention IIRC.


- Chris

[einhander619]

does the NCPA have an organized crime program? If not, I volunteer as the charter member.

[raehl]

And having one would be illegal (or at least, cause us to lose our non-profit status with the IRS. Totally illegal if it constituted more than an insignificant part of our activities.)


- Chris

[Automaggin2]

Originally posted by Animal Mother
SmartParts is a small company when you compare them to other companies (not paintball) and this is sucide. Why? because we can boycott SmartParts and they will fall. Even if it does get changed it shows what a scum ball company they are for even trying. Yeah.. I'm gonna pass on that Shocker '03.

I'll be placing my order with The Angel Guy next week. :)

Speeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed!


No, it will be damned near impossible to boycott Smart Parts. They have way to big of a standing in the industry. And besides,whatever gun you buy, royalty fees get sent to Smart Parts.


There has to be a loop hole here. It sounds like a Monopoly IMO, they will control all of the industry if this happens. I seriously doubt this. We need more detail. For some reason, I dont think we are being told the whole story.



Besides, Smart Parts KNOWS they just dug themselves into a huge hole that they may not crawl out from. I amn sure they are well aware of all the flaminng going on the internet about them.

[Automaggin2]

Originally posted by Nastyimp13
and to your comment about dye. Look at dye, they bought out the matrix just so they could have there name on a gun that is getting more popular. And from what ive seen to it, all it looks like they are doing to it is giving it some milling and the rt eye. And i bet that gun will cost about 1200.

No they did not. Do not post false information. Dye bought the manufacturing rights, there is a big difference.

[Nitroduck]

Here's a picture for your enjoyment.....

www.stickballmovies.com/archives/hitsp.jpg

[ForgedSpeed]

Hitler pic = :D :)

[Miscue]

Now here's a question.

Let's say... that Smart Parts wins this. What if all the tourny leagues in a coordinated effort ban electros from tourny play... kinda like F1 getting rid of fly-by-wire? No more demand for electros... SP screws themselves...

And then... what if after this point, all the leagues boycott SP? SP gear/clothes etc... = not tourny legal?

I may be reaching here... but just thinking.

If the leagues threatened to do this in retaliation... would SP push for this?

[ramennoodles]

i think thats a good idea miscue but some one has already stated that X-ball has nothing to gain by doing this and more than likely all the other leagues would follow suit, but i don't know i like that pic buy the way.

[ForgedSpeed]

Umm...since when does x-ball speak for all the other tournament series?

[SupAirBall]

one that nd posted, now you dont have to eat up his bandwidth :D

[DiRTyBuNNy]

Originally posted by ForgedSpeed
Umm...since when does x-ball speak for all the other tournament series?

uuummm...it doesn't...but try to convince NPS and Richmond Italia of that fact...oh well...I give up...

[WickedAirSportz]

NPS? As in National Paintball Supply - the OWNER of the Intimidator??

[the_next_guy_]

all this about a switch? the hyperframe doesen't even have one...

[Cryer]

all this crap makes me love my mag even more...:) :( :o

[cris8762]

wow, this is horrible

i really hope SP loses, and it seems like there is a fair amount of evidence against them though!

What's even worse is that the value of my imp (that i'm trying to sell) just went down like crazy! DAMN YOU SP!!

[ForgedSpeed]

Meh...I guess I should go ahead and sell my freak I just bought.

[raehl]

If I just take the battery off my E-Mag, I'm good, right? ;)

- Chris

[WickedAirSportz]

This is not really about just a switch. Smart Parts has been granted a patent for the electo-pneumatic paintball gun. They recently revised the patent to include the facts that if the marker has an electrical on/off switch it would violate their patent. There are other things that would violate the patent as well, like a solenoid, a low pressure regulator, high pressure regulator, battery, etc...

[DiRTyBuNNy]

Originally posted by WickedAirSportz
NPS? As in National Paintball Supply - the OWNER of the Intimidator??

Sorry about that Jim..what i took from the original quote that I quoted was that someone was asking why people automatically assume if X-Ball does whatever, that the rest of the tourney series in the country should just follow them blindly..I meant to say that they don't...but that Richmond and NPS would love for them TO go ahead and follow them...it was my fault for not clarifying their position (I've been working on computer hardware all day long...my brain is mush)

[karphead]

Tom-Just say the word and we'll march on Smart Parts HQ

[WickedAirSportz]

Guys, this patent has nothing to do with people, just manufacturers. People can do whatever they want. Anyone selling a marker commercially that violated Smart Parts' patent would be subject to criminal and/or civil prosecution.

I think what will happen is that NPS (who owns the Intimidator) will make a mechanical Intimidator and Wicked Air Sportz will make pneumatics and electronics for paintball markers. :)

[ForgedSpeed]

Alright, so what we do is get a heard of angry bulls and release them right outside smart parts HQ. Then we...

:D

[DiRTyBuNNy]

hhhmm....a mech Timmy...now that is something I'd love to see..

[WickedAirSportz]

Bunny,

My point was that NPS owns the Intimidator, and have a significant amount of money invested and pending on that marker (more than what Smart Parts is worth, I would bet). NPS is not likely to agree with anything that Smart Parts wants to do.

[Ov3rmind]

Originally posted by Nitroduck
Here's a picture for your enjoyment.....

www.stickballmovies.com/archives/hitsp.jpg
rofl.

[SupAirBall]

Originally posted by ForgedSpeed
Meh...I guess I should go ahead and sell my freak I just bought.

Better yet.. melt it down and mold it into a swastica. Then overnight it to smart parts as a german medal of honor.

[Nick O time]

yeah i am selling my freak and buying an evil pipe kit.