An interview with WAS. [Archive] - Automags.Org Online Forums

shartley

08-20-2002, 07:57 AM

WAS

The TurboRev was created because I got tired of the whirring of the motor when the hopper was empty. It didn't take getting lit up too many times before I finally had to do something about that "bunker me now" alarm that people can hear when you are out of paint!
Personally, I like that “whirring” when my hopper is empty. It lets me know I have about 5 or 6 shots left. And let’s be honest, if you are too stupid to know that when this happens you TURN IT OFF, you really ARE a N00B. But I guess reaching up real quick and flipping that little switch could be a problem…. You know how hard it is to find. (Not to mention that the IntelliFeed eliminates this all together.)

And when I first heard that whirring noise I KNEW it could be heard from across the playing field. I knew (as he did) that it would be like a magnet for everyone to come on in and bunker me. After all, it can be heard from 30-50 feet away, behind another bunker, over other shots being fired on the field, your own heart beat and breathing in your mask, etc.

WAS

In 1983, I graduated from high school and college at the same time, earning 3 degrees (electrical engineering, computer science, and physics).
Is this a typo? He graduated High School AND College at the same time with 3 Degrees no less? I would like to get verifications of this, as well as to know what TYPES of Degrees these were…. and the College they were from.

Work history? I see a big claim there, BUT I think we all know what it means when someone moves around a lot in an industry….. and it isn’t because they are such a wanted commodity. I will leave it at that….

WAS

A new hopper, the Equalink (computer interface for the Equalizer and all future Wicked Air Sportz products), Equalizer accessories such as the Intellifeed/Warp link kit, portable printer, and others. We also have some products that we are working on that are a bit hush-hush.
LOL And the “hush-hush” part kills me. That is almost ALWAYS used to draw attention to the company, NOT because they actually ARE working on something Top Secret. After all, if it was, they would not even mention it. ;)

Blah Blah Blah…. The more I read, the more it reminded me of an Interview by and FOR people who have never even HEARD of Paintball before. His selling tactics and even his own words remind me of a mediocre Used Car Salesman…. Or even more accurately, a really good “Snake Oil Salesman”.

Jeb_Hoge

08-20-2002, 09:13 AM

Portable printer? But...WHY?

Jack & Coke

08-20-2002, 09:43 AM

...In 1983, I graduated from high school and college at the same time, earning 3 degrees (electrical engineering, computer science, and physics)... - Jim Drew -

WOW!:eek:

Well there you have it...

Resistance is futile.

Butterfingers

08-20-2002, 09:47 AM

A 4 function calculator has more power than the computer they used to put astronauts on the moon.

And consequentially a 4 function calculator also has more power than the WAS chip

Mango

08-20-2002, 10:32 AM

I think this guys full of hot air. I would like to see someone challenge his supposed "3 degrees" and also, if he is so intelligent, why did he not go for a masters/doctorate degree and why dosent he own his own business/work for a major company, etc???

845

08-20-2002, 10:55 AM

HE reminds a bit of the guy from Als Porno and paintball:rolleyes: Just less extreme.

manike

08-20-2002, 11:00 AM

Originally posted by 845
HE reminds a bit of the guy from Als Porno and paintball:rolleyes: Just less extreme.

I've said that! :)

But this guy does actually create things which work... (his products are good, just not what he hypes them to be/claims).

manike

Vegeta

08-20-2002, 11:07 AM

This guy needs to stop hitting the bong and learn how his own products work.

. Its a simple idea, but the implementation is quite a feat. It took about 3 months of daily work to get the software to work properly. 3 months to write 500 bytes of code.

There is no doubt in my mind that he did not write up and design that board at all. That is what the smart R & D people are for. This guy is just a bullsedited out challenge to filter - cphilip er that is flinging words around to make him look smart and make people want to buy the products.

Keep it clean Veg. You know better - cphilip

RetroEclipseMan

08-20-2002, 02:11 PM

Just about every stupid comment this guy has made has been posted but I think this may be one of my favorites .

"For paint, we don't have a favorite. We like the RPS Advantage shell, but not for tournaments where we find that it jams too easily..."

How the heck can you like something that jams all the time. It would seem to me that it would either be a problem with their loader not being able to feed fast enough or being to ignorant and not being able to match the paint to the right barrel.

Spaceman613

08-20-2002, 02:12 PM

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/content/Item/81/07/50/i810750vr03.jpg

Its getting deep in here

Aranarth

08-20-2002, 02:20 PM

Hmm. My interpretation of his description for how the turbo rev board works. His multi-torque would require feeding different currents to the motor. Need to look at how the circuit is made, but not sure if it has the capability. Now, taking a small timing circuit, it shouldn't be hard at all to set up a bistable feature to switch the motor speed from slow to fast and back at one portion of the motor's rotation, giving his whole ball stack pendulum thing. Unfortunately for this, you would have to have the chip timed with the paddles to make it effective. There's no way to do so for the average joe, and I severely doubt he has figured a way to have this sort of positive feedback. Maybe the eye is linked to it in some way which sets up an averaging circuit and tells the specific paddle locations based on when the balls feed. But the turbo-chip isn't user programmable, so makes me wonder about compensation for multiple types of paddles. . .
Okay, so some sort of averaging program driven by the eyes, for paddle to eye location. And some sort of bistable to change motor speeds for his kicker pendulum thing (which I am not sure if it works, but maybe. . .). Not a coder myself. Have no idea if something like those two functions could be programmed into that tiny chip on the board. Could interpret that to what he says though. Of course, his is so much more used car salesman. He should just say things straight out, and not try to fill the hype.
NOTE: Eye is the infrared sensors on the rev, not ace.
-AranarthX

hubadlatimmy

08-20-2002, 02:21 PM

Hey thinsulate is a 3M product. My daddy works for them!

TransMan

08-20-2002, 03:05 PM

The only good thing about stupid people is that they show us who is smart:rolleyes:

Muzikman

08-20-2002, 04:24 PM

Originally posted by Miscue
If I had the cash, I'd buy a TurboRev right now to really give it a close look... this way I could figure out EXACTLY how it works in comparison to what he says.

I have one that does not work, you can have it. It was the third one I got that was DOA. I said screw it, I kept paying $5 to ship it back to just get another broken one in return. If you want the broken one, you might be able to rip it apart and make it work:)

Cristobal

08-20-2002, 04:55 PM

I noticed over on PBN that somebody posted this interview and the response was nothing like what has been generated here:D

In my view, from has been posted a number of his claims definitely seem unfounded. There's a fine line, however, in striving for truth against hype and downright picking on him. Just a thought:)

That said, besides the aforementioned bits there are a couple of other things that struck me as interesting about the interview:

The interviewer says: "People call you guys the "Rocket Scientists" of paintball..."

Reading it I was like "cool, at least some people must think highly of them" -- but then I saw that the WAS site self-referentially calls themelves "The Rocket Scientists of Paintball" and I got to wondering who came up with the phrase in the first place. Sounds like self-promotion to me, which isn't necessarily bad, but kind of funny when the interviewer feeds you back your own self-compliment.

Its also interesting to look at ages and years:
WAS says he has "26 years worth of electronic development and software experience."

He also says he graduated (from high school and with the three degrees) in 1983. That's only 19 years ago. I'm assuming that experience means working in industry. That means he was working in industry for 7 years before he graduated. Clearly, his education did not follow the normal pattern for this country.

I for one would like to know more about who this guy is -- he certainly seems like an interesting character.

shartley

08-20-2002, 05:10 PM

Originally posted by Cristobal
I noticed over on PBN that somebody posted this interview and the response was nothing like what has been generated here:D

In my view, from has been posted a number of his claims definitely seem unfounded. There's a fine line, however, in striving for truth against hype and downright picking on him. Just a thought:)

That said, besides the aforementioned bits there are a couple of other things that struck me as interesting about the interview:

The interviewer says: "People call you guys the "Rocket Scientists" of paintball..."

Reading it I was like "cool, at least some people must think highly of them" -- but then I saw that the WAS site self-referentially calls themelves "The Rocket Scientists of Paintball" and I got to wondering who came up with the phrase in the first place. Sounds like self-promotion to me, which isn't necessarily bad, but kind of funny when the interviewer feeds you back your own self-compliment.

Its also interesting to look at ages and years:
WAS says he has "26 years worth of electronic development and software experience."

He also says he graduated (from high school and with the three degrees) in 1983. That's only 19 years ago. I'm assuming that experience means working in industry. That means he was working in industry for 7 years before he graduated. Clearly, his education did not follow the normal pattern for this country.

I for one would like to know more about who this guy is -- he certainly seems like an interesting character.
LOL I like how you pointed out that there is a fine line between striving for truth against hype and down right picking on him…. And then point out MORE “discrepancies” in his own words. ;)

So according to himself, he not only graduated from High School AND College with no less than 3 Degrees, but also did so while WORKING in the electronics industry for 7 years. As you clearly pointed out, this is a bit odd. And assuming he graduated being 18 (the average age) he was WORKING since he was 11 years old?

I think you have answered the question of whether the line has been crossed…. Not by a LONG shot. This guy is an idiot that relies on people not actually listening to what he says but be impressed at HOW he says it. And fortunately for him, other Paintball Forums do just that. And fortunately for US this is AO, and NOT those other forums. ;)

I would be more than happy to have him come to AO. :D Are we picking on him? Nah….. we are just objectively reviewing his own words. It is not our fault they don’t stand up to even the simplest reasoning.

Cristobal

08-20-2002, 06:11 PM

Yes, I thought the irony was rather funny myself when I typed the post:) I did however choose not to post my discussion of the average age on his tourney team, for though interesting, its not as odd as his education.

I'm not quite convinced he's lying through his teeth about himself for the single reason that he'd have to be rather short-sited to not have his story down pat by now. I would guess that he had a rather unusual educational experience before I say he is complete making it all up.

EnderWigginPballin

08-20-2002, 06:29 PM

maybe he got the .699 bore from the front half of the timmy barrel....

:rolleyes:

He also said he's worked with most of the major computer companies, and some that no longer exist..... why didn't he mention a few....
"I've worked for IBM, Microsoft, XXXXX brand, and a few other major companies" something like that....

If I was interviewing someone and they said they graduated HS and earned 3 degrees at the same time I would have asked a few more questions about that....

I think they edited out the part where he claimed that the character Doogie Howser was actually based on his life, and that he was having an affair with Anna Kournikova.

WickedAirSportz

08-20-2002, 07:41 PM

You guys have to stop, I am getting a gut ache from laughing so hard. :)

That "interview" was an emailed questionaire.

... and yes, my stock Intimidator barrel mics out at .699 (at the entry end, not the front).

shartley

08-20-2002, 07:51 PM

Originally posted by WickedAirSportz
You guys have to stop, I am getting a gut ache from laughing so hard. :)

That "interview" was an emailed questionaire.

... and yes, my stock Intimidator barrel mics out at .699 (at the entry end, not the front).
Interesting….

So you got an e-mail questionnaire (which sorry to say is still an interview), and had time to think about all your answers and you sent back what you did? Did the author edit your responses? Did the author delete content, or change what you said?

And out of all the things brought up in this thread, the ONLY one you could comment on is the barrel specs?

Seems it is not you that should be laughing, but the AO membership. That is of course unless what was posted as the interview is not what you said or how you said it.

Cristobal

08-20-2002, 07:58 PM

Hey WAS -- any chance for some enlightenment... or do we have to go on second-guessing;)?

Timmee

08-20-2002, 08:09 PM

We require proof on your claims, WickedAirSportz. That doesn't seem like an unreasonable request, does it?

WickedAirSportz

08-20-2002, 08:35 PM

Proof is fine, but I think I enjoy keeping everyone guessing, even though the truth is right in front of them. :)

OK, perhaps that wasn't nice... but I do find it amusing that I can provide concrete proof, and then backed by others, and nobody seems to 'get it'. So, I have put up a little challenge, starting with the TurboRev thread. Perhaps people will have the ability to understand clearly the technology behind some of the stuff that I do.

I don't have any rub with the Automag folks. I have been in paintball for a little over a year. I had not seen an eMag until earlier this year, and that was on a wall in a paintball store located 200 miles from here. I had not seen the inside of a Mag until two weeks ago, and I got to see one with the LVL10 mod - pretty impressive (although I was too chicken to put my finger in the breach and pull the trigger). :)

I had an Angel for about 3 weeks, looking primarily at the electronics in it. I liked some of the technology in it. I have never seen a Tribal marker, Bushmaster, and numerous other markers. Just because I am a manufacturer of paintball products, it does not make me instantly knowledgable about every type of hardware in existance. I may never see a Bushmaster, or half of the other markers out there. So what? My job is for my products, not to know everything about everyone elses.

There are some things that rub me the wrong way in this click of people, and that is assuming you know something when you have no more proof to provide otherwise, than I am willing to give you. Personally, the more you push for proof, the less I feel inclined to give it to you. :) I know that with 100% certainty if it came to a court issue, someone will be paying my attorney fees, because I will be able to provide proof. Half of what I do is smoke and mirrors, not BS. I sure as hell don't want people duplicating what I am doing, so there are times that I can be evassive, but I always do tell the real truth. That is an art. :)

Please go look at the TurboRev thread, and let's start there. I think you might be surprised at just how innovative someone can be. :)

wes

08-20-2002, 08:41 PM

does your barrel look like this :D

shartley

08-20-2002, 08:45 PM

LOL Nice avoidance of answering any questions, even the “simple” ones about your High School and College stuff. But I am sure we on AO are beneath understanding any of that as well.

I would advise thinking more, posting less. And when you post keep in mind that we actually read what you write, not what you want people to think. ;) You are your own worse enemy here…..

Timmee

08-20-2002, 08:52 PM

Allright, lets get down to asking questions. There's nothing wrong with asking a few questions, right?

1: How old are you?

2: When did you graduate from High School?

3: When did you graduate from College?

4: How long did it take for you to develop the TurboRev (concept to Version 1)?

5: How can an algorithm and adjusting the torque and speed guarantee that there won't be significant gaps in the feed stack?

I am not attacking you, your claims, or the TurboRev. I am in fact asking some questions so I can better understand this entire controversy. I eagerly await your response.

magking1971

08-20-2002, 09:09 PM

But when you get right down to it a rev, "turbo"rev , or whatever some company calls it, it still just "mix's" the paint around the hopper untill said paint falls in a hole.
I don't care what fancy programs,paddles,or speed a revo has the paint still flops around in the hopper untill it just happens to fall in the hole!
With all the fancy stuff this "turbo"rev has, why don't someone put this tecno stuff in a blender that can make me a dang fine drink!

Restola

08-20-2002, 09:20 PM

I think you might be surprised at just how innovative someone can be
I am certain no one will be surprised at your "innovativeness." Well the fact that you can say absolutely nothing in a huge post is nice, but certainly not innovative.

I could care less what this guy sells (except to know enough not to buy it), I just want the answers on his alleged education.

WickedAirSportz

08-20-2002, 09:26 PM

I didn't avoid anything, I merely did not respond. There is a difference.

Yes, I have been working professionally (which means getting paid) since I was 11 years old. I was a special child, often made fun of for not playing sports and such, and spending time doing R & D with computers and electronics. By the time I was 14, I worked for Apple Computer, and developed much of the educational software for schools. By the time I was 18, I was the technical support supervisor for Commodore Computer, Inc. By 1985, I had developed more than 60 commercial programs for the Commodore 64 and PC. I have written software for Disney Studios, Amblin Entertainment (including movie credits - pretty cool), and even helped out NASA write the code for the original Mars lander that had legs instead of wheels. ... and on and on and on, with hundreds of details left out in between that stuff... Hardware and software development has been my entire life for the last 26+ years now. Doogie Howser, I am not... But I have created numerous "firsts" in the computer and electronics industries. Technology is what I do.

If I were to send concrete evidence of all of this to your door, what would you say... probably something like, 'oh'. End of story, right? Then what? I am use to this type of treatment though. :) In the computer industry, I have created things that everyone said were physically impossible, got called all kinds of names, and I use to let it bother me. Now, I find these forums more as a source of entertainment - kind of like a really bad sitcom. :)

I won't post anymore in this forum, so responses will not be left by me here.

than205

08-20-2002, 09:31 PM

I miss the Amiga......:(

Restola

08-20-2002, 09:31 PM

Please go look at the TurboRev thread, and let's start there. I think you might be surprised at just how innovative someone can be.
WARNING: If you go to that thread, expect NOTHING but more NOTHING. He says nothing and proves nothing.

HOWEVER: Some quick searching did turn up some references to a Jim Drew at Apple computer, and even another online interview where some of the things he said in his last post are also printed.

Doesn't guarentee anything, but at least SOME of his story can be referenced SOMEWHERE, even if its just a third party website.

Timmee

08-20-2002, 09:36 PM

Are you going to answer my questions? This is an interview thread. :)

Butterfingers

08-20-2002, 09:37 PM

Not physycally impossible, just not living up to the hype you put behind it.

That is quite an impressive resume. I have no reason to doubt it. In fact I find it to be quite belivable.

Some of us don't beleive your claims... but have you ever bothered to find out the reason why?

The point is not to get used to people doubting you, it is to understand why...

Which I think is the root of all this controversey...

The more I think about it the more I think this was sparked by a conflict in personality. I think you just have a weird way of rubbing some people the wrong way. Everytime I read one of your posts I sense a little bit of arrogance and that does not sit well with anybody.

xmetal2001

08-20-2002, 09:40 PM

Wow, this is hilarious. He simply cannot answer the questions...

I've never seen anybody avoid such simple questions in so many words.

Members here are asking for a simple explanation of something you said, to clear things up, and in your many posts, you still haven't answered a question.(Except now I know lots about your childhood, still nothing about highschool and college though:rolleyes: )

Its sad that you can't back up your answers to your interview.:(

davidb

08-20-2002, 09:43 PM

We'd be especially interested to hear more about your 3 degrees and simultaneous HS/College graduation at the age of 18, and what exactly you were doing in the field of electronics in the fourth grade.

My brother (19, currently top in his class in naval nuclear school) took apart and repaired a thoroughly broken radio when he was about eight years old, but does not claim to have 11 years of experience. Now, while I cannot claim to know beyond any doubt that you were not soldering and programming while your classmates were learning their times tables, it would probably suit you better even in that unlikely scenario to say something like, "I have been in the industry for "10" years, and have done it as a hobby since I was very young."

(Just noticed and read new "Proof is fine" thread)

Truth is, you haven't proven anything. You've made plenty of claims, sure, and some truth even managed to sneak by. But some of those claims were either misleading, grossly exaggerated, or just plain false. When Miscue and Butterfingers demonstrated this for other people to see, the thread/threat was mysteriously deleted.

Now, maybe you honestly think that you haven't told any lies. Maybe it's even possible that you haven't. After all, I could truthfully tell you that I became a medical transcriptionist at 15, and a published author at 17, or that I got I higher score on the STAR test (California residents should be familiar with it) than was thought to be possible. Whether or not I point out that I didn't start transcribing for doctors besides my father until I was nearly 17, or that the publisher was a local newspaper that requested I do an article, or that my score was only thought to be impossible by the teachers at my school, and not those who created the test, is my prerogative. Likewise, it is your decision whether or not you tell us that you have a far more broad view of "artificial intelligence" or what constitutes the ability of a machine to "learn".

The reference to the moon landing, however, is just making people laugh.

WickedAirSportz

08-20-2002, 09:50 PM

Crap,

These were legit questions, so I will answer these and leave it at that..

1: How old are you?

37

2: When did you graduate from High School?

1983 - Klamath Union High School, Klamath Falls, Oregon.

3: When did you graduate from College?

1983 - Oregon Institute of Technology, Klamath Falls, Oregon.

4: How long did it take for you to develop the TurboRev (concept to Version 1)?

Probably about 20 minutes. The first version used a 555 timer in self retriggering mode where if the eye saw a break in the beam it would retrigger the timeout period. This kept the motor running for about 1/2 second after the last ball passed by. This would be basically equiv. to how the Intellifeed works, spinning for a set duration after an event occurs (trigger pull with the Intellifeed, ball dropping in this case). That actually worked better in tests than the stock Revolution board because the motor was spinning a lot. I was using a single 9v battery for this with the 4 blade impeller. A second 555 (later becoming a 556 package) was used to timeout when the motor was spinning for two full seconds without the eye retriggering the sequence. This allowed the motor to be shutoff when you were out of paint.

My 12v Revolution was the older style that did not have the PIC micro on it (the stock Revolution uses the same PIC we do and could easily be programmed to be exactly the same as the TurboRev), and I did not know that Viewload even had a computer contolled one until I ordered another hopper to experiment with. I then started looking into the PIC micro family of CPUs. I had little experience with embedded controllers, although a CPU is just a CPU. I spent most of my development period working in assembly language for 6502, Z80, 8080, 80x86, 680x0, and PowerPC. I did do a little work with Apple's 68HC11 used for thier ADB bus emulation, so I had an idea of the limitations surrounding a smaller CPU.

After a bit of playing around, I got the software for the 12C509 working. About 550 bytes (not words as some people like to put it - even Microchip). In the today's naming conventions, BYTES represent the smallest base of operation. Since the PICs have a 12 bit instruction set as their base, it is technically improper to address their orientation as words. This would refer to an 6 bit base, which they are not. The code space is 512 12-bit instructions, which fit fine in the 12C509 CPU, having 1K of code space. The challenge was to shrink it into the smaller (less expensive) package without comprimising performance or features. This task took about 3 months, and I am quite proud of being able to do that. There is space for 3 more 3 instructions too.

5: How can an algorithm and adjusting the torque and speed guarantee that there won't be significant gaps in the feed stack?

You can't guarantee anything. You can only make changes that "appear" to be working. Want to really mess with the TurboRev's logic, throw in two different sizes of balls. There is a huge difference in the amount of drag going down the feed tube with larger balls. Do a quick test yourself with any aggitated or gravity feed (VL200) hopper - drop test a hopper with Hellfire and a hopper with TC Venom. You'll see several SECONDS difference, which is quite a lot.

Anyways, if people would like to chat about the TurboRev technology, I am willing to do so in a civilized and informative manner. If you want to moan about tactics for sales using buzz words and glamor, then your words will fall on deaf ears. :)

Cristobal

08-20-2002, 09:51 PM

Originally posted by WickedAirSportz
Yes, I have been working professionally (which means getting paid) since I was 11 years old. I was a special child, often made fun of for not playing sports and such, and spending time doing R & D with computers and electronics. By the time I was 14, I worked for Apple Computer, and developed much of the educational software for schools. By the time I was 18, I was the technical support supervisor for Commodore Computer, Inc. By 1985, I had developed more than 60 commercial programs for the Commodore 64 and PC. I have written software for Disney Studios, Amblin Entertainment (including movie credits - pretty cool), and even helped out NASA write the code for the original Mars lander that had legs instead of wheels. ... and on and on and on, with hundreds of details left out in between that stuff... Hardware and software development has been my entire life for the last 26+ years now. Doogie Howser, I am not... But I have created numerous "firsts" in the computer and electronics industries. Technology is what I do.

WOW -- I'm am more than suitably impressed. And if you want an appology for any percieved attack on my part about your background I'm happy to oblige. I don't think you need to send all the proof to my door. What you have posted seems a good enough explanation of how you graduated from high school and got three degrees at the same time.

Nor do I think that this post will get many people upset with you. My impressing is that most people here have a hard time seeing the diffence between straight bs and the "smoke and mirrors" that you have said you employ. This post contains straigh-up info, which in my experience is what people on AO like.

The unfortunate thing is that people get upset with the percieved deception that results from a smoke-and-mirrors game. And that leads to attatcks of a more personall nature. And that gets people upset...

I'm sorry if you feel poorly used by this forum, and I would further encourage you not to up and leave entirely. However stick around and get along I'm afraid the "smoke and mirrors" are probably going to have to be replaced with a more straight-forward approach.

EDIT: If we can get over such tactics, and if "Technolgoy is what [you] do" then I would be most excited to see what new things result for paintball. Oh, and by the way: what are some of your firsts you mention in passing above?

Restola

08-20-2002, 09:55 PM

If you want to moan about tactics for sales using buzz words and glamor, then your words will fall on deaf ears.
...as will your buzz words and glamor

WickedAirSportz

08-20-2002, 10:55 PM

I do understand that the gang on AO are special breed of people. I think many of you do not operate a business that is based on how something looks/feels. The paintball industry is one of those industries. If you don't have the red annoed, super-glare resistant, nuclear powered, "hype" then you don't sell products. I can understand your frustration with products that do not peform as stated. My products do not fall into this category, but I do have all of the advertising "hype". What people are contesting are certain features, and whether they exist or need to exist. Everyone's immediate reaction is big bold text saying "Prove It!" Instead of saying, "hey, why do you think it is necessary to fix this problem - I don't feel that problem exists", I get the big Mickey Mouse scaring the hell out of the poor little kid, with the words "you've been owned" (btw, I found that especially funny). Not really productive for finding out info. :)

I often times don't like to discuss something that I feel could be considered a technology secret, and it is in these cases that I avoid answering questions like the plague and I won't say why. Other questions I refuse to answer are those that are just plain dumb. I refuse to have a battle of the whits with an unarmed person. :)

I think there are a few guys here that are very brilliant (Tom is definitely one of them, although I am still not sticking any body part into a LVL10 mag). :)

I don't hide from issues, or disguise things. My first comment about the LVL10 mod could have been deleted (I still could delete it), but I left it there so that people could see the fact that my findings were initially wrong, and that I learned quite a bit about the LVL10 design by watching the animated GIF.

Hype vs features. That's always going to be a tough one I guess for you guys. My definition of hype is when you successfully market a product based on its features. The definition of hype I hear in this forum is successfully marketting a product through lies.

...as will your buzz words and glamor

LOL! Fair enough. :)

WickedAirSportz

08-20-2002, 11:01 PM

Ack, sorry - left out the firsts for you.

First hardware based disk copier. Versions of the Apple ][/+, Commodore 64, Amiga, and PC.

First full color Macintosh emulation. Versions for the Amiga and PC.

First Pentium emulation. Versions for the Amiga and PowerMac.

First PowerPC emulation. Version for the Amiga, and a version in the completion stages for the PC.

There are other little "firsts" for each different types of home computers as well, but nothing that sticks out still to date.

Cristobal

08-20-2002, 11:17 PM

Originally posted by WickedAirSportz
Ack, sorry - left out the firsts for you.

First hardware based disk copier. Versions of the Apple ][/+, Commodore 64, Amiga, and PC.

First full color Macintosh emulation. Versions for the Amiga and PC.

First Pentium emulation. Versions for the Amiga and PowerMac.

First PowerPC emulation. Version for the Amiga, and a version in the completion stages for the PC.

There are other little "firsts" for each different types of home computers as well, but nothing that sticks out still to date.

Yeah, I did a little searching around on the net and found out you came to be quite a figure when it came to emulators for the Amiga. I'm impressed with what you did -- I had no idea that technology existed (then of course I know relatively little about the Amiga but that it probably doesn't get the credit it deserved). I thought it was funny though because it seems that you were generating controversy well before entering into painball. I guess if we knew the history of your previous products we shouldn't be surprised that your current ones are anything different:D

Arturus

08-21-2002, 12:31 AM

Originally posted by WickedAirSportz
Anyways, if people would like to chat about the TurboRev technology, I am willing to do so in a civilized and informative manner. If you want to moan about tactics for sales using buzz words and glamor, then your words will fall on deaf ears. :)

Thank you. I think I can speak for the majority of us and say that's all we're asking for. Even those of us not involved in the debate/discussion and are humble consumers.

:)

Grimm1013

08-21-2002, 01:17 AM

Well, glad to see that you backed up some of what you said, just don't claim that you invented the internet, we all know Al Gore did that.

Beware the loader that thinks!:D

shartley

08-21-2002, 06:56 AM

Well, I am impressed. I have to honestly say it, I am genuinely impressed.

Not with his background, not with his products, or much of the other stuff he said… but with how he can snake charm a group into not ripping him apart. LOL I have been around long enough and known too many smart people to be so easily impressed. Sorry.

I have also been around long enough to know that a sliver of truth in a tree of lies is often enough to quell the standard nonbeliever. But you know, it is still a tree of lies.

I have seen far too many people use the same hype, and misleading (at best) information, that it becomes real to them and they believe it themselves.

Also davidb hits more than a few nails on the head with his post. And I would still like to know how even a super smart kid would graduate High School AND Graduate College at the same time. Normally you would graduate High school FIRST (at a very advanced rate and quite young) and THEN go directly to College. And I have even seen some kids take “special gifted” classes and courses as part of a “get to know a career” program while they were still in High School and receive a certificate….. but that is far from 3 Degrees. I will be looking into this claim personally.

I could very easily use some of the techniques davidb mentioned and whip up my Son, Daughter(s), and Wife a “Work” and “education” history that would impress the masses as well. And heaven help us if I was to do so for myself. LOL

Most of what is said about work history could easily be chopped down… take for example the claims of helping NASA with the Mars code….. technically, if he knew someone working on the project, and that someone called him up and during casual conversation they talked about the mission and he made an offhand comment that the other person thought he/she could use (and they stated so), he HELPED. ;) Now take this principle and apply it to everything else he said….. even better yet, take it and apply it to your own lives! WOW, I bet we can now come up with some pretty impressive “facts” to tell folks. :D

So in short, I am not convinced. He is a good wordsmith, but as one myself, I see the tricks. Personality conflicts? Absolutely! But even if you don’t LIKE someone, you can’t argue with truth…. And I see much room for argument here. And noone was arguing that Mr. Drew was a nice guy or not, but that most of what seems to come from his mouth and fingers seems like total BS.

He even admits that he has experienced this type of “treatment” before. No doubt, no doubt.

Mr. Drew please don’t do us any “favors”. You still make it sound like anything you post on AO is a tasty morsel for the starving. I am neither hungry nor like the BS pie you are serving. And you fail to even realize that most of us think your product works just fine… LOL It is just not what you would like the world to think it is.

Now, I find these forums more as a source of entertainment - kind of like a really bad sitcom.
And we see what you really think of us folks too. And that is fine. You evidently have NO problems alienating your potential client base. I have no problems with that, none at all.

As for your firsts… LOL Does anyone know how EASY it was (relatively speaking) to be the first at something in a developing industry? This does not take away from the fact that it may have been the first, but is it still used today? When was the last time one of these “firsts” was done? Let’s keep things in proper perspective please. I know plenty of folks that were on the “cutting edge” when the edge was quite dull compared to what is being done today. And many of them (although truly gifted and intelligent) just can’t keep up with things today. And anyone who CAN is still working IN the industry and employed by a Major Player.

Leonardo was a genius for his time, but I would wager that if he walked into the average Tech School now days, he would be a virtual moron. With that said, he was a brilliant man, and had plenty of “firsts”. ;) But I can also tell you that I would not want to ride in HIS helicopter, even if it was the first designed.

Again… please Mr. Drew, don’t do us simple ignorant folk any favors. You are clearly too smart for us.

manike

08-21-2002, 07:54 AM

Agree 100% with Shartley.

Haven't yet seen anything to sway me from the BS I keep reading from WAS. If anything it shows up a pattern of BS, in this and other areas.

Still waiting for any shreads of proof about the claims we are challenging. But then we aren't talented enough to discredit them, or understand your proof, are we? :rolleyes: lmao

Ever thought of maybe the fact that some of us are more skilled and thus can see why your claims are rubbish WAS even if you can not? I'm starting to think that's the real issue. Your claims are only real in your head, and those that you baffle with your BS.

WAS your condescending approach to others and your customers is very enlightening.

We've tried chatting about the Turbo Rev in a civilised manner before... and as soon as your claims were discredit you stopped chatting, you had no come back then and you have no comebacknow. You make some good products but the smokescreen and web of lies you weave around them is appalling. Am still waiting for proof on your Turbo Rev that was supposed to be forthcoming over a year ago...

manike

shartley

08-21-2002, 07:57 AM

So people don’t think I *changed* my post above….

http://www.oit.edu/index.html?method=dgrs Well there you have it folks, the Degree Programs offered by OIT.

In 1983, I graduated from high school and college at the same time, earning 3 degrees (electrical engineering, computer science, and physics).
They must have changed what they offer.
(For those who don’t want to look, here is a copy of the Degrees they offer.)

Bachelor of Science in:

• Civil Engineering
• Computer Engineering Technology
• Electronics Engineering Technology
• Geomatics
• Industrial Management
• Information Technology
• Laser Optics Engineering Technology
• Management
• Management Information Systems
• Manufacturing Engineering Technology
• Mechanical Engineering Technology
• Software Engineering Technology

Associate of Engineering in:

• Computer Engineering Technology
• Electronics Engineering Technology
• Software Engineering Technology

Associate of Applied Science in:

• Office Systems Technology

shartley

08-21-2002, 08:03 AM

Manike-
Want some fun? Do a search using his name (WWW Search), and read a couple (which is all there is) of interviews with him. His tone is the same... and actually any claims made IN the interviews are coming directly from HIM, not the one doing the interview. I have YET to be able to find anything substanciating what he says about much of anything.... I can only cross reference it with his own words.

This is not saying he is lying... just that there is no proof thus far that even comes close to validating any of it.

manike

08-21-2002, 08:10 AM

Originally posted by shartley
This is not saying he is lying... just that there is no proof thus far that even comes close to validating any of it.

I've done some looking and spoken to quite a few people in paintball. And this seems to be the story from all of them. Most of them started to reply to me by laughing...

manike

WickedAirSportz

08-21-2002, 10:13 AM

They must have changed what they offer.

Yep... looks like they dropped the physical and statistical engineering programs, and split the computer science into a few categories instead of how they did it more than 20 years ago. Come on people, do you think if I was not telling the truth that I would even give you a school name.

As far as graduating at the same time goes, I started attending college classes in the 8th grade. You don't exactly have too many kids your age in college, so my parents thought it would be best to have a split schedule attending normal school for a few days, and the "bigger" school the other days.

Please keep up the witch-hunt. I find it exceptionally entertaining. :)

shartley

08-21-2002, 10:50 AM

“We are not worthy.”

An 8th Grader taking College Courses now days would bring a good deal of media coverage, and even more so back 20 years ago. Funny that I have never heard of you. And personally at this point, I could care less if you are telling the truth. LOL You may have been a brain at 11, but you are an idiot at 37. IMHO

But hey, we are out on a witch hunt….. well some may be, I personally am trying to find a few Shiffers for my collection. You see their brains are prized items now days and it would appear that you have one.

First rule of business… don’t piss off your potential customers. LOL But I would bet that you don’t need anyone in Paintball though, because as soon as you wear out your welcome you will find some other industry to bedazzle with your superior intellect (Maybe your real name is Kahn?).

Following even your own stated history, I see nothing but movement away from your professed expertise.. computers and such (that I see are used in most homes and offices now days… no? hmmmm). Why don’t you have a job in the *standard* computer industry? Maybe because they know what the deal is and can’t be BSed so easily? Who knows.

Again, after looking, the only thing to back up what you say, is more of your own words. I find that this is odd for such an important person as you profess to be, with all the *firsts* you have created. And I am sure there is NO other product that works sufficiently well enough for the average player, so your *chips* will not suffer your extreme arrogance and idiocy. Play on my man, play on …… You are evidently one of those people who are so smart they lack any common sense. The more you type the worse you look.
:rolleyes:

mykroft

08-21-2002, 10:52 AM

Well, It seems that Jim's a little controversial in the Amiga and emulation communities.

quoted from: http://www.lysator.liu.se/amiga/al/guide/al102/jim_drew_good_or_bad.HTML

The Voice of Reason on Jim Drew
Character Analysis: Jim Drew

Jim Drew, President and CEO of Utilities Unlimited International gets a
mixed review of criticisms from the Amiga community, from the Internet in
particular. Jim, as you may know is father of EMPLANT board. He has
used online services as a means of "spreading the word" about his upcoming
products before they are released.

One of the questions that enter the minds of Amiga owners is whether
or not he can deliver the products he has promised. He has created the
first multitasking Mac emulation on ANY computer, by using the Amiga's
high tech chipset and OS design. However, many people still find him to
be untrustworthy, as he has often announced products without ever
finishing them.

I will attempt to compare the good items that Jim Drew has brought to
life with his failed attempts.

Jim *DID* do the following:
===========================
Released Emplant, the world's first multitasking Mac emulator (&
supporting software)
Released SYBIL (Mac disk support hardware)
Released AMIA ( Replacement for SYBIL that could be used with Emplant)
Released a free Multi-OS filesystem
..and just recently released the e586dx emulation module
(P*ntium instruction emulation)

Jim promised people a lot of things at one time or another that have never
left the UU labs:
================================================== ========================
PCMCIA Emplant (for A1200's)
3DO emulation for CD^32's.
Atari 400/800 emulator
Atari ST emulator
Apple IIe/II+ emulator
Commodore 64/128 emulators
SNES emulator
Genesis emulator
Free Virtual Memory program that will work with his emulations.

Which leaves a lot of unreleased products, and a lot of questions to be
answered about Jim's integrity. Some people think his outrageous claims
are comparable to the boy who cried "Wolf!" It may be that he is
too enthusiastic for a disgruntled and disbelieving Amiga community to
accept him in these dark hours of the Commodore buyout. Some people have
engaged in name calling, but this does not really hurt Jim's products, and
is not to the general good of the Amiga community.

Jim recently has stopped responding to email on the internet because of
the criticisms and angst of some disgruntled Amiga owners. I sincerely
hope it does not affect his efforts or his development of new products,
and that the Amiga doesn't lose yet another developer supporting it.
As it is, GVP's departure from the Amiga market has left him as one of the
biggest developers for the Amiga.

I personally believe that Amiga owners should take a WYSIWYG (What You
See Is What You Get -Josh) to his products. If you are ambitious, you may
wish to buy his products and "ride out the storm." If you are not, it is
safer to view his products with interest, but to wait until they have been
tested first.

Caveat Emptor - Let the buyer beware.

FYI: I'd like to see the data on what exactly is stolen in Basilisk II, as I've been fooling around with it myself. Legitimatly, as I own 6 68K Macs.

shartley

08-21-2002, 11:01 AM

Date of article? From what I understand, UUI does not even exist any more, and that was the company that did the programming we just read about.

hmmmmmm I wonder why...... Being the top folks in the niche they filled, and then dropping off the face of the earth to make RC Car stuff? Now Paintball stuff? hmmmmm Seems like an odd move....... well odd unless FORCED.

:rolleyes:

mykroft

08-21-2002, 11:07 AM

Oh, as to going to college concurrently to high school, it does happen, in fact there is a program specifically for it up here in Ontario, allowing you to take first & second year University courses during your last 2 years of high school. Graduation concurrently, especially with 3 degrees, is not possible up here. Unless those are associates degrees, it's very unlikely anywhere.

mykroft

08-21-2002, 11:09 AM

UUI's the old company. It's Microcode Solutions? now. And there was some connection to Emulators Inc. that I'm not sure about.

Emulators Inc. is very shady, notorious for vapourware and BS announcements.

mxracer33x

08-21-2002, 11:44 AM

Please stop telling us how smart you are and patting yourself on the back for going to college in the eighth grade. Its all irrelevant to the matter at hand.

"Just the facts ma'am.."

Rather then replying to every post about your inept product how about gathering information and hard facts to prove your point? Quit arguing and show us some proof already.

joeyjoe367

08-21-2002, 11:55 AM

I have a friend that goes to the university of washington, and he's 17.

When he was 14, he took a course that allowed him to, basically, take all of highschool in a year, so what WOULD have been his sophomore year in highschool was his freshman year in college. So it's quite possible to go to college at a much younger age.

3 degrees in 4 years is just nuts. 3 degrees in 4 years CONCURRENT with Highschool and at that age is sounding a little BS here. Especially degrees in Electrical Engineering and Computer Science, which I have been told are the most difficult and time-consuming degrees to obtain.

Show me those degrees and I'll shut up.

shartley

08-21-2002, 12:05 PM

Okay folks... great points brought up... now add that he claims to have been WORKING in the Programming Industry since he was 11.... on top of all his *educational* stuff.

:rolleyes:

HoppysMag

08-21-2002, 12:26 PM

im with shartley

and let me say as mag owners we know its performance not hype
and if you need to hype up your product it is simply not good enough...
the witch hunt is over... now its time to start the fire.

i am surprised at the number of people who gave in so easily...

but on another note if you did work for Commodore i must say the old 64 in my basement is a good machine...

Ack, sorry - left out the firsts for you.

First hardware based disk copier. Versions of the Apple ][/+, Commodore 64, Amiga, and PC.

First full color Macintosh emulation. Versions for the Amiga and PC.

First Pentium emulation. Versions for the Amiga and PowerMac.

First PowerPC emulation. Version for the Amiga, and a version in the completion stages for the PC.

There are other little "firsts" for each different types of home computers as well, but nothing that sticks out still to date. Emulation huh....:rolleyes: kinda like your company name right....

Muzikman

08-21-2002, 12:28 PM

Hmm…interesting. I don't really know what to believe except the fact that I have had three Turbo Revs and they where all DOA. When I asked about it I was told I was doing something wrong and that they never have gotten back a bad unit. Oh well, can care less.

What does interest me is the R/C Car stuff. Having raced the national circuits (1/12 Scale Indoor ROAR & 1/10 Scale 4wd Dirt Oval) back about 10 years ago I have a pretty good understanding of the progression of technology at that time. Seeing as I have not been involved in the industry since about '94 I do not know what has happened since (but reading some 'zines it looks like very little has advanced), but I am still interested in that Jim came up with.

beam

08-21-2002, 12:43 PM

He doesn't appear to be evasive in this interview: Interview (http://www.emaculation.com/jim1.shtml)

However, I'm still looking. :)

mercury

08-21-2002, 01:20 PM

Ok, so the guy is shady. The point has been made and discussed to the point of being a little redundant and rediculous. Is there really nothing better to talk about? Do some of you really have so much time on your hands that you spend time digging up dirt on somebody just to join the group of stone throwers? He is not the first, nor will he be the last "snake charmer" in the world. Is this some noble effort to rid the world of them starting with this guy?

Maybe all of this energy should be put to something more productive as this is getting really lame. Let the guy live in his own happy little world. Obviously, his Turbo Rev is a decent product as a quick look on pbreview shows that it is rated a 9.5. Does it really matter so much how it works? It works, doesn't it?

Don't think that I am blindly buying into his ideas or anything of that nature but it's time to say "When." Enough is enough. Now that this dead horse has been beaten, shot, mutilated, burned, and nuked, maybe it's time to just act like adults and stop all the nonsense.

cphilip

08-21-2002, 01:25 PM

Thanks Beam! I thought this part of an article on the site was interesting:

...In April of 2001, Microcode Solutions released "iFusion," a software-only emulator of the PPC Macintosh for the Amiga computer. The company stated at that time that a port of iFusion (which will be renamed) to the Windows operating system was almost complete. Drew has indicated then that the initial port of iFusion would require hardware support (from a card that he would sell for ~$300 US), but that a software-only version would be released at a later date. Drew has since sold iFusion to a retailer called "Virtual Programming Limited" without releasing a Windows port.

In early 2002, Drew stated that the hardware supported Windows port of iFusion would be officially released at MacWorld Tokyo in March of that year. This deadline was not met, and Drew was criticized online for his error. Drew responded to the attacks by releasing pictures of the hardware card that he said would support the emulator. This did little to halt the attacks on his company and amidst legal threats against emulation site developers, the official Microcode Solutions site was removed and a message stating "NEW WEBSITE COMING SOON!" was put in its place. As of May 26, 2002 it has not been replaced.

At this time Microcode Solutions does not sell any products...

The link to entire article at E-Maculation where this article is posted: http://www.emaculation.com/micro.shtml

Miscue

08-21-2002, 02:01 PM

Originally posted by mercury
Enough is enough. Now that this dead horse has been beaten, shot, mutilated, burned, and nuked, maybe it's time to just act like adults and stop all the nonsense.

I'm in complete disagreement. This is a mentally lazy approach - an "argument stopper." There are numerous questions left unanswered, it is in our interests to find the answers.

mercury

08-21-2002, 02:14 PM

Call it mentally lazy if you will, but I can hardly believe that there isn't anything else more usefull to discuss. Making very valid points ceased many posts ago. Now, all I see are people regurgitating what has already been said. Some may call it accumulating evidence or something similar but I know any intelligent person needs no more evidence to believe that this guy has a shady history. Ok, I get it.

shartley

08-21-2002, 02:28 PM

I would like to point out that this thread is NOT the only thread being made or discussed here on AO. ;) So to ask if there are any other important topics that would better be discussed is actually redundant to what is actually being done… This thread is in ADDITION to all other topics here on AO, not the ONLY one. ;)

I think he is out to totally ruin his reputation, and from what I have seen so far, I am more than happy to help him out. And I have actually been pretty nice to him thus far…

So, further discussion is not a bad thing in this regard.

mercury

08-21-2002, 02:46 PM

"This thread is in ADDITION to all other topics here on AO, not the ONLY one."

That is correct. I know I can go elsewhere if I don't see the relevance in reading this thread, but that is not the point I am trying to make.

Being a relatively new AO member, I have learned much from this group of people over the past few months. This group is entirely different from any other forum or internet group that I have participated in, in that it has higher standards, for the most part. From, previously an observers point of view, I watched the content of this thread decline. It seems as some have dropped below my percieved standards and expectations of this group. One cannot help but notice the personal insults being slung around carelessly as often happens in many other forums.

Further discussion is not a bad thing. You are also quite correct there. I was not trying to mute the discussion, but was rather, at the very least, hoping to guide it to be more constructive.

Cristobal

08-21-2002, 03:04 PM

You know what this all reminds me of? The Bond movie "Man with the Golden Gun" where Bond is trying to chase the assassin in the room full of mirrors. Reviewing this thread, there would appear some measure truth in what he says -- but the manner in which it is presented casts doubt on everything. I may have been overly gracious in my reception of his background... or maybe not. Most likely it doesn't really matter anyway, because the question ultimately resolves to if his products work or not -- and from what I've seen they do, but not to the level to which they are hyped.

I tell you what though, this artisan of ambiguity has made for a most interesting discussion :D I wonder what will come next...

EnderWigginPballin

08-21-2002, 04:48 PM

Originally posted by WickedAirSportz
I think many of you do not operate a business that is based on how something looks/feels. The paintball industry is one of those industries. If you don't have the red annoed, super-glare resistant, nuclear powered, "hype" then you don't sell products

which is why we're pretty much all shooting Mags here instead of Angels. Because AGD hypes the Mag constantly and WDP barely advertises.................

and if you don't know a whole lot about your competitors products they'll always have an advantage over you buddy.

There are two types of paintball companies if you think about it.
people like you, Kingman, Worrgames and WDP..... it's all hype and advertising. with a decent product

then there are companies like Tippmann, PPS and AGD.
not too flashy, but great reputations for quality, durability and value.

the first one is strong now, but how many of those companies have been around as long as AGD and Tippmann.... just Worrgames (which is basically making products based on what Glenn at PPS taught Bud Orr)

mercury

08-21-2002, 05:40 PM

Ok, well I'm not sure that everything on pbreview has 9+ but assume that I did buy into that reasoning. Even if it was a huge conspiracy on pbreview to give everything high marks( ;) ), that still leaves the people on here that have said that the Turbo Rev performs decently, if not well. Also, unmotivated people aren't the only one's who get bad products. There are plenty of people who do post negative things about bad products they may receive. Likewise, there are most likely plenty of people who do like products and aren't ambitious enough to hunt down pbreview and post positive points. :)

FutureMagOwner

08-21-2002, 08:19 PM

the one thing i have a problem is that hes attempt to insult potential customers intelligence and provides now proof of his claims apparently believe noone can grasp a concept besides him. unless your attitudes doesnt change WAS i would keep your day job(based on the interview it seems you have another job) please as shartley might say put up or shutup

Butterfingers

08-21-2002, 08:48 PM

Well, Kingman WDP and WGP don't blatantly try to mislead customers into buying thier products.

Simply put thier marketing is good and it dosent involve deception.

Originally posted by EnderWigginPballin

which is why we're pretty much all shooting Mags here instead of Angels. Because AGD hypes the Mag constantly and WDP barely advertises.................

and if you don't know a whole lot about your competitors products they'll always have an advantage over you buddy.

There are two types of paintball companies if you think about it.
people like you, Kingman, Worrgames and WDP..... it's all hype and advertising. with a decent product

then there are companies like Tippmann, PPS and AGD.
not too flashy, but great reputations for quality, durability and value.

the first one is strong now, but how many of those companies have been around as long as AGD and Tippmann.... just Worrgames (which is basically making products based on what Glenn at PPS taught Bud Orr)