nuaghty dogs making the switch

[maglover52]

i got to play and hang out with the nuaghty dogs today and they said that for the 2004 season they will be making a switch from wgp orracles to bob long timmys. a few of them where already shooting timmys to get used to them. what do you guys think of this? i think that theyshould stay with wgp. i would rather shoot cocker than a timmy. to me timmys are the spyder of high end guns.

[adam shannon]

didnt the naughty dogs cocker just come out?

[magking1971]

It does not matter what we think, They will play with whatever they are paid to play with.
If brass eagle came up to them and said "we will pay you $1,000,000 to use our talon" they would be using talons at the next tourney.:p

[fire1811]

Originally posted by magking1971
It does not matter what we think, They will play with whatever they are paid to play with.
If brass eagle came up to them and said "we will pay you $1,000,000 to use our talon" they would be using talons at the next tourney.:p

[sneakyhacker420]

well... IMO, they're making a very wise switch from cockers to timmies

[tony3]

Fo sho, I'd definitely shoot a nice timmy over a nice cocker. I love when people call timmy's high end spyders. Yes they work similar to spyders, yes the first ones that came out used spyder bodies, but sometimes a simplier design works better then a complicated one i.e. cockers

[-=Squid=-]

I would rather shoota timmy, but it just seems unjust. They have been a WGP team for so long, similar to dynasty and WDP. Just seems messed to me...

[SpongeBobSquarePants]

Well the timmy is obviously the better marker and I'm sure they are recieveing a nice chunk of change to use it. So what would you do?

[Xyxyll]

Originally posted by maglover52
to me timmys are the spyder of high end guns.

Um... Spyders are the leaders of low-end guns. So if Timmy's are the Spyders of high-end guns, then wouldn't they be the leaders of high-end guns? ;)

BTW, Timmys are still a lot different from Spyders. Timmy's work completely different from Spyders. Sure, you can convert a Spyder to a Timmy (so what?), but that doesn't mean a Timmy sucks or anything.

[SyntaxError]

I'm glad, because when I have to play the Dogs next season and their timmies break down cuz they're of terrible quality, I'll have an advantage:D

[Dayspring]

Care to back that one up with some facts or is the hype of the Timmy enough? :rolleyes:


Originally posted by SpongeBobSquarePants
Well the timmy is obviously the better marker

[1stdeadeye]

Loyalty is dead. :(

Whatever happened to going to the dance with the one that brought you.

WGP and WDP helped make the Dogs and Dynasty. Now they are being cast aside.

I guess paintball is becoming like more of the mainstream sports after all!:rolleyes:

[tony3]

Originally posted by Dayspring
Care to back that one up with some facts or is the hype of the Timmy enough? :rolleyes:



Well, the fact is both gun will be consistent, efficenct, not chop and just plainly shoot great. It all comes down to speed. A was'd timmy will be faster then an eblade cocker.

[Dayspring]

Once you hit the 20 bps mark, shooting faster than that becomes moot.


Originally posted by tony3

Well, the fact is both gun will be consistent, efficenct, not chop and just plainly shoot great. It all comes down to speed. A was'd timmy will be faster then an eblade cocker.


Both will cycle/shoot paint in the upper teens. The hoppers are the limiting factors. I've seen pro teams using both guns. At that high ROF, the diff in ROF is negligable.

Yes, I know that the cocker has more mass to move and therefore cycles slower. However, They're not using stock parts/settings. If you think that, you're sadly mistaken. Those suckers would do 20+ easy.

The reason people like the guns that can accept WAS is b/c of the debounce. AKA- cheater boards.

[Ginjiroku]

I think they should stick with cockers, timmys are cool though. But it doesn't really matter that much they're using a different gun wow, how does this have any impact on us?

[PaintballSmurf13]

I totally agree with, Ginjiroku..why should we really care what they shoot...and maybe they get bored of shooting the same gun all the time..I personally don't really like timmys..most of them are fugly, though few are really sic.

I look at it from a different perspective in the opinion that timmys are like the spyders of the high end world. Lo0ok at spyders..so many colors and milling..all just to make them look pretty to sell..they are basically all the same gun..with minor differences...now look at the timmy..so many milling and color choices..all generally the same thing..and they're so bulky..anyways..thats my opinion...

personally..id buy a pimped out ebladed cocker before a timmy..just because it can keep up with timmys and im comfortable with cockers (since i shoot one now and am happy with it)
just my $0.02
-Ryan F.

[FreakBaller12]

money is the root of all evil


just keep that in mind as all these teams switch sponsers

[Python14]

Originally posted by toyotaboy12
money is the root of all evil


Then make me more evil and give me yours.

I say whatever. Nothing is really sacred anymore. Loyalty is just something that you hear about from your grandparents. I do my best to be as loyal as I can, but when it comes down to being held back, I'll do whats in my best interest because in the end, I am all I have.

[Prairie]

I highly doubt this is true...

I wouldnt believe it until I heard it from rocky

[logamus]

while loyality is nice, it seldom pays the bills. i personally could care less what the big pro teams shoot, but its obvious that someone cares otherwise this wouldnt be an issue. instead of being mad at the dogs, go get mad at the credit card kid that has mommy buy the new nd timmy.

[tony3]

Originally posted by Dayspring
Once you hit the 20 bps mark, shooting faster than that becomes moot.




Both will cycle/shoot paint in the upper teens. The hoppers are the limiting factors. I've seen pro teams using both guns. At that high ROF, the diff in ROF is negligable.

Yes, I know that the cocker has more mass to move and therefore cycles slower. However, They're not using stock parts/settings. If you think that, you're sadly mistaken. Those suckers would do 20+ easy.

The reason people like the guns that can accept WAS is b/c of the debounce. AKA- cheater boards.

I have yet to see a video of a cocker shooting 20 bps without shootdown and it breaking paint. I have seen timmy's shoot 20 bps with paint though.

[FreakBaller12]

I say whatever. Nothing is really sacred anymore. Loyalty is just something that you hear about from your grandparents. I do my best to be as loyal as I can, but when it comes down to being held back, I'll do whats in my best interest because in the end, I am all I have.


valid point, that's what the world is becoming i guess,
i still like dynasty none the less and i still like the dogs none the less.

[The Action Figure]

money is not the root of all evil, The love of money is the root of all evil

[SyntaxError]

Originally posted by Dayspring

The reason people like the guns that can accept WAS is b/c of the debounce. AKA- cheater boards.

Actually, Bob Long just did a test and proved that the WAS board tells you you're shooting way faster than you actually are...

Jim Drew is such a BS artist, he'll be sure to get some bonus balls from me.

Eblade cockers>timmys

[wobbles82]

What pro team is it that ya play for that youll be playing the Dogs? Or is it just practice? Anyways, IMO...I used to think the Timmy was poor quality, from HEARING things. I used one when my ULE RT-PRO was getting repaired, used it for awhile, bought a 2k2 and do not plan on looking back as for now. The guns are high quality, if something is not considered high quality then im sure you are mistaken, I mean SURE there are some flaws stock that people manage to find, but if you wanna call it a Spyder with ACE, then heck, Ill call it my ripping Spyder with ACE. ;) As for "cheater boards" ive been hearing a lot about this, and its pretty ridiculous. Has it been done? Yes. Will it be put to a stop? I doubt it, but point is, everyone shoots fast now, and those that have these boards for some reason need that extra ball or 2, and ya know what, a ref sees your board aint locked, hes liable to play the bunker with you and see just HOW you manage to shoot that fast. And if you want to get into the debounce debate, E-Cockers have debounce settings, along with a little something called a backblock. Both are excellent markers, my team uses them practically interchangably and both have no real problems when properly tended to. As for the money issue, like said, greed is the root of all evil, money is not. If they are going to be able to pay the bills and play paintball, im sure they are happy about that. And im sure WGP loves them for all of the Orracles they have sold, as WDP does Dynasty, its just what happens in the industry. Whew. :D

[Prairie]

Originally posted by tony3


I have yet to see a video of a cocker shooting 20 bps without shootdown and it breaking paint. I have seen timmy's shoot 20 bps with paint though.

You dont look hard enough...

[triggerman]

Ok let me get thid strait timmies are spyders of the electro world......and thats a bad thing how? what was your first gun....ok then what was your second gun. there was a time when spyders where the best selling gun there was. and with good reason. now let me ask you this why do you think timmies sell so good? Just my $.02

[sneakyhacker420]

Originally posted by SyntaxError
Jim Drew is such a BS artist, he'll be sure to get some bonus balls from me.yeah... you'll be aided with your own WAS board to put out thoes extra balls on him eh?


to tell you the truth, i've heard nothing but whining about WAS board lateley... i truly don't see how a WAS board is a cheater board? why aren't we calling the 3.2 e-mag software a cheater board? they both have shot buffering... they both have debounce... and all that good stuff


whats the difference... the marker that its put on

i love my timmy, and i'll take it over a cocker any day

its lighter, faster, simpler, more reliable, plus more :eek:

i dont care how many people call it a spyder, its MY spyder, and it will whoop your ***, so please shut up :o

[BajaBoy]

i couldnt agree with skeaky anymore on this one.

[magsRus]

I went from an Orracle and a Black Magic to a Storm Timmy. I like the Timmy more.


I agree with the person above said. Look at bad company they play with spyders cause their sponsorship from raven and kingman is so strong

[Ryknow]

Timmy > cocker

just my 2 cents.. I'm not to big on cockers.. except for a few specific ones, but I would still rathre shoot a timmy.

[Dayspring]

The way a HES sensor works is completely different than the way a microswitch works.

On a microswitch, the computer is not only picking up the full on/off contact of the switch, but is also picking up on the microscopic contacts. If you saw a waveform of that, you'll see a bell curve. The debounce software that WAS uses is supposed to tune that stuff out and only pick up the highest point. What people are doing is using the debounce in the opposite direction, and using the other parts of the bell curve as legit trigger pulls.

The HES doesn't function this way. The sensor either reads as ON or OFF. No in-between. The shotbuffering that AGD is doing stores 1 shot. The reason we were seeing full auto was the magnetic field of the solenoid was triggering the HES and producing a feedback loop.

There's a very large difference between how the AGD shotbuffering/trigger system works and a microswitch/WAS system works.






Originally posted by sneakyhacker420
yeah... you'll be aided with your own WAS board to put out thoes extra balls on him eh?


to tell you the truth, i've heard nothing but whining about WAS board lateley... i truly don't see how a WAS board is a cheater board? why aren't we calling the 3.2 e-mag software a cheater board? they both have shot buffering... they both have debounce... and all that good stuff


whats the difference... the marker that its put on

i love my timmy, and i'll take it over a cocker any day

its lighter, faster, simpler, more reliable, plus more :eek:

i dont care how many people call it a spyder, its MY spyder, and it will whoop your ***, so please shut up :o

[teamkamakazee]

screw this arguement on wich gun is better if you were in the naughty dogs shoes you would go where the money is and any one who says they wouldnt is a dirty lier. even if a cocker is better than a timmy (im not saying they are) none of you would care about that if you were the naughty dogs the only thing you would care about is wich company is paying you more. it doesnt matter what gun you shoot if your a pro then obviously you have the skill to beat any of us with a spyder or a tippman. done and done

[JT2002]

Originally posted by 1stdeadeye
Loyalty is dead. :(

Whatever happened to going to the dance with the one that brought you.

WGP and WDP helped make the Dogs and Dynasty. Now they are being cast aside.

I guess paintball is becoming like more of the mainstream sports after all!:rolleyes:
That last sentence...
the said thing is, that is what it seems most of us wanted for the sport isnt it? heh theres a good and bad to everything i guess :D

[FreshmanBob]

Originally posted by Dayspring


There's a very large difference between how the AGD shotbuffering/trigger system works and a microswitch/WAS system works.


This is true, but WAS boards are only cheater boards if the debounce is dialed low enough. If that constitutes a cheater board than an RT must be a cheater gun, because if the pressure is dialed in right or the on/off pin is shaved slightly it too goes full auto.

[Dayspring]

But that requires some sort of tool on the field to do (input pressure). Judges usually notice you doing stuff like that.

De-Bounce is a menu driven, tool-less function. (AFAIK)

[Fixion]

Originally posted by Ryknow
Timmy > cocker

just my 2 cents.. I'm not to big on cockers.. except for a few specific ones, but I would still rathre shoot a timmy.

Timmy > Cocker
True.

Timmy < Ebladed Cocker
IMHO also true.

[JT2002]

Originally posted by Fixion



Timmy < Ebladed Cocker
IMHO also true.
well now, yeah its true if your talking about bouncy cheating triggerness :D

[AcemanPB]

I don't get people saying one gun is faster than the other. It is proven that both an E-blade'd cocker and a WAS'd timmy will shoot over 20bps (or faster than you could ever pull). So how is one faster then the other? Switch bounce perhaps? I've shot plenty of WAS'd Timmys and all of them have had mad switch bounce, I know alot of people like to think they can pull the trigger that fast but it's all BS.

I know you can combat switch bounce by bumping up the debounce but how many people do you know actually do this?

[DiRTyBuNNy]

so..has anyone gotten proof that the ND's are leaving Worr...because I noticed PBGear dropped the price of the ND Orracle almost 300 bucks..

[JT2002]

well i think thats a sign to try and sell em b4 noone wants a gun of a team that doesnt use tehm any more. but. have any of you seen the new empire and 2k4 timmys? no bounce at all. or if your special. an extremely small # of bounce. you see with the new boards, they tell the real truth on how fast ru shooting unlike WAS. so truthful that noone was getting over 16 at first, and thought the board was capped lmao. dont beleive me? go to the timmy forums on pbnation. im gettin my empire today so :D :P

[Meph]

Originally posted by Xyxyll

BTW, Timmys are still a lot different from Spyders. Timmy's work completely different from Spyders.


Yeah, COMPLETELY different! :rolleyes:

[fire1811]

who cares what gun supposidly is better if you like the damn thing then shoot in.

gun debates are so pointless no one ever wins, there's is always better

[FreshmanBob]

Originally posted by Dayspring
But that requires some sort of tool on the field to do (input pressure). Judges usually notice you doing stuff like that.

De-Bounce is a menu driven, tool-less function. (AFAIK)

True, but I think its a lot easier and faster to just take an allen wrench out of your pocket and turn your input pressure up than it is to sit there and reprogram the board. I've never been searched, nor seen anyone get searched.

[Fixion]

Originally posted by JT2002

well now, yeah its true if your talking about bouncy cheating triggerness :D

You can't really bounce an eblade trigger. It doesn't use a HES to my knowledge, it uses an optical switch.

[Dayspring]

Bounce doesn't always have to be in the switch.

It can be b/c of moving mass. Set up to do so, an Eblade will bounce b/c of the reciprocating mass of the back block, hammer, bolt and what not.


Originally posted by Fixion


You can't really bounce an eblade trigger. It doesn't use a HES to my knowledge, it uses an optical switch.

[grw4w34]

There are cheater boards made for the timmy. A friend has one and proved it to me. His brother plays for a well knwn team. That set aside timmys rock, and so do cockers. Its all personal pref.

[JT2002]

Originally posted by Dayspring
Bounce doesn't always have to be in the switch.

It can be b/c of moving mass. Set up to do so, an Eblade will bounce b/c of the reciprocating mass of the back block, hammer, bolt and what not.


Bingo!! ;) :D :D

[Fixion]

Originally posted by Dayspring
Bounce doesn't always have to be in the switch.

It can be b/c of moving mass. Set up to do so, an Eblade will bounce b/c of the reciprocating mass of the back block, hammer, bolt and what not.



I don't know about your cocker, but mine has no kick at all, the gun stays still while I'm firing it.

[Dayspring]

Didn't read my post entirely did we?

I said


Set up to do so...