Wiring HA sensor to a Morlock board?

[[GIB]Spiff]

Can anyone who has done it let me know how they have wired the HA sensor in their Emag to a Morlock board? I would greatly appreciate it!! Thanks.

[[GIB]Spiff]

A little help guys!! I'm certain (well sort of) that some of you are using the Emags HA switch with the Morlock. If you have the Morlock and your not using the HA switch, where did you mount the micro switch? It seems a little tight in the frame for the switch. Getting the HA switch to work seems like a very clean solution.

Anyway, the HA switch that comes with the Emag has three wires. Yellow, red and black. After just a little tinkering it would seem that red and black correspond with power and ground (as usual), and yellow is the pulse signal. I came by this deduction by running voltage across the red and black wires and probing for voltage at the yellow wire. Am I correct here? If so will the yellow wire produce enough voltage/or voltage change to "trip" the Morlocks circuitry in order to activate the solenoid?

I'm half tempted to put the Emag back together again with the stock PCB and check voltages to and from the HA switch in this manner. Once again, any help is appreciated. :)

Should I try to get ahold of KMM over this?

[PUDBUDZ]

im going from memory here but....

the morlock has a 5v output...believe it was a white? maybe a grey...double check! the HE switch has a yellow,red and black...

black is ground.
red is the +5v
and yellow is the switched.

hope this helps

[[GIB]Spiff]

Thanks for the reply. My plan was to put the black wire from the HA switch to a common ground. Run the grey wire from the Morlock to the red wire on the HA switch and run the yellow wire to the black wire on the Morlock (the Morlocks trigger circuit is Grey/Black). This should send voltage to the Morlock everytime the trigger is pulled?? So you have confirmed my plan. :) Guess I'll give it a try!!

[BlackVCG]

If you can wait until Sunday, I can give you pics of my Morlock wiring harness.

You can get it backwards and the board will boot and then lock up and not fire.

And wire colors don't really mean anything with the Morlock because you can use whatever colors you want for wiring the different components.

[Tunaman]

Using the connector diagram from KM2, I have had success with the following combinations:
#4 Green to HES Red
#7+8 Red and Blue to Solenoid any way- Polarity neutral
#9 Black to Battery -
#10 Red to Battery +
#11 Black to HES Yellow
#12 Grey to HES Black
# 11 and 12 may need to be reversed.
Hope this helps

[[GIB]Spiff]

Thanks for the replies Tunaman, BlackVCG *and* PUDBUDZ!! BlackVCG, I'd like to see a picture of your Morlock install even with Tunamans great wiring instructions. I made a stand for the Morlock from scrap plastic, and used the OEM PCB's mounts to secure it. Then mounted the Morlock to the plastic stand. The three wires on the Emag hall sensor threw me, the hall sensors I've seen only had two, and I did not pay attention to how many wires there were until I got the Morlock.

[[GIB]Spiff]

Just as an addendum, 11 & 12 did need to be swapped!! Other than that it works great. Full auto with a Halo B is soooo cool. :) Now to learn how to actually program it!! Thanks again.

[PUDBUDZ]

Heres a pic of mine...i made an aliminum bracket for mine...the board is only held by 1 screw :mad: so i made a bracker that has tabs on it to keep it from rotating at the 1 screw.

[BigEvil]

Using the connector diagram from KM2, I have had success with the following combinations:
#4 Green to HES Red
#7+8 Red and Blue to Solenoid any way- Polarity neutral
#9 Black to Battery -
#10 Red to Battery +
#11 Black to HES Yellow
#12 Grey to HES Black
# 11 and 12 may need to be reversed.
Hope this helps

Tunaman, can you translate that #4green to HES RED for me? This is the wiring set up for the Predator Morlock. I think its a little different than the mini. (Not sure)

1 White (eye +5 volts at 150ma max) short lead
2 Green (eye sig)
3 Black (emitter -) short lead
4 Orange (emitter +)
5 Red (solenoid 2)
6 Yellow (solenoid 2)
7 Red (solenoid 1)
8 Blue (solenoid 1)
9 Black (batt -)
10 Red (batt +)
11 Black (trig -)
12 Grey (trig +)


These are the specs for the Pred morlock wiring connector. On this one, #4 is Orange eye emiiter. Im in the proccess of planning this out and would also like to know where that red HES wire goes.

Thanks

[athomas]

The new predator morlock lists the #4 as orange which is a +5v regulated supply for the eyes.

The HES requires a 5v supply to operate since it is an electronic rather than mechanical switch.

[BigEvil]

The new predator morlock lists the #4 as orange which is a +5v regulated supply for the eyes.

The HES requires a 5v supply to operate since it is an electronic rather than mechanical switch.


AHhh.. do basically split the wire to the hes and eye?

[Tunaman]

I really dont know how to hook it up. I believe you would get a voltage drop if you split the wire and both components were activated at the same time but I am not sure if the voltage drop would be enough to matter. I only used the green wire because it is one one of the wires in the harness that isnt being used. It would be the same (position wise) as the orange wire you speak of. I am sure we could tap any 12v lug on the board and regulate it down to 5v to pick up the extra wire on the HES. Maybe a call to Curt might clear this up.

[athomas]

I can't get mine to work. The Morlock works fine when I activate it using a standard switch but the HES is not funtional. I tried in back on the original board and it doesn't work there either. I think I fried it, although the connections seem correct and all voltages were proper as well. Does anyone know what the electronic part number is on the HES. I can't read mine. I'd prefer not having to order a new one from AGD due to the high shipping to Canada.

Thanks.

[Tunaman]

I can't get mine to work. The Morlock works fine when I activate it using a standard switch but the HES is not funtional. I tried in back on the original board and it doesn't work there either. I think I fried it, although the connections seem correct and all voltages were proper as well. Does anyone know what the electronic part number is on the HES. I can't read mine. I'd prefer not having to order a new one from AGD due to the high shipping to Canada.

Thanks.508 E 1023 ;)

[the electrician]

[gib]spiff- nice job man.

no advice on the wiring, but I will say to be careful and not let the back of the morlock rub against anything conductive. I know it can be a tight squeeze in a grip some times. A peice of colored electrical tape (preferably anything but black) makes for a simple, cheap and effective insulator.

also, if you are so inclined as to want to make the wiring a bit more "modular", hirose makes some inline connectors. the DF3 series in two conductor. basically the same as the morlock wiring harness(DF11) only single row. that way you can unplug the solenoid, or switch or what ever you want, from everything else. make for easier installation, tear down, and trouble shooting.

just something to think about.

so what's the top speed on that thing in full auto?

[UpliftedApe]

I know this seems odd but I too am trying to install a pred morlock into my emag and I am having the same trigger problems and I KNOW my hall works, I have tried the orange and the white #4 and #1 respectively, however I do get lights but no firing, I am not sure whats up with the hall sensors. Any advice on this would be appreciated. As a side note one of the wires in the loom was the wrong color in the wrong position I had a black in 9 and 10.

[athomas]

I looked up some different HES parts. I can't find the specifics on our unit but all I have found so far indicate a pinout as such:

pin1 - VDD
pin2 - gnd
pin3 -out

This goes against the colors on the AGD part. So if the above holds true, then:

red = pin 1 = vdd
yel = pin 2 = gnd
blk = pin 3 = out

I don't know if this is correct, but it could explain why I toasted mine. I wired mine thinking red = pos, blk = gnd, and yel = output.

[UpliftedApe]

I have found Tunaman saying in another thread that the hall senor wire colors have changed over time as is evidenced by this data: http://store.airgun.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=catalog.prodInfo&productID=144&categoryID=24
you will notice the wires from "top" to "bottom" are red,yellow,black. Mine however is red,black,yellow. my emag valve # is EM00532 This model is fairly old as far as emags go, as well as, not having the on off area drilled deep enough to allow a ULT trigger much to my chargrin, (i.e. I bought an x-valve with a ULT installed and liked it better than my emag valve but it limits my working markers to 1 to put the emag on/off and pin into the X-valve, and right now $70 is a bit much right now) however back to the point at hand I wonder about the red's matching up and th yellow and black being interchangable, any comments on this would be welcomed I am sure, by my fellow suffers, with our pred boards sitting in our laps.

[athomas]

Mine is red-black-yellow on the pin connector but on the HES it is red-yellow black.

In the picture of the hes harness, it is red-black-yellow on the pin connector and it looks like the HES is red-black-yellow. This would explain the difference from what I thought originally.

My emag has a sn of 394 so it is one of the earlier ones.

[BigEvil]

I just left a question about this on the TAG fourm. Usually Bob and the guys are pretty good offering advice. Hopefully someone will answer in a day or so.

Here is the link

Wiring a HES to a Predator Morlock (http://www.tagsportz.com/forums/showthread.php?p=18682#post18682)

[UpliftedApe]

Why don't we compare how we are wiring our respective setups?

I use the following:
#1 white to red HES
#12 grey to yellow HES
#11 red(should be black) to black HES
#10 Black(should be red) to emag positive power red
#8 Blue to solenoid
#7 red to solenoid
#9 Black to emag bare metal fram

this combination only manages to light up the light on the pred, but not fire it, I have also rotated the HES wires in various combinations to try and make it work with less than wonderful results, mostly sparks I will admit.

[BigEvil]

Hmmmm.....

What if you need the #1 white (eye) for the ACE?
Would I have to tap the 18v off the battery or 12v off the board and reg it down to 5v?
(now the milliion $$ question: How do you do that)

Have patience with me, im learning :hail:



Why don't we compare how we are wiring our respective setups?

I use the following:
#1 white to red HES
#12 grey to yellow HES
#11 red(should be black) to black HES
#10 Black(should be red) to emag positive power red
#8 Blue to solenoid
#7 red to solenoid
#9 Black to emag bare metal fram

this combination only manages to light up the light on the pred, but not fire it, I have also rotated the HES wires in various combinations to try and make it work with less than wonderful results, mostly sparks I will admit.

Im wondering if it has anything to do with the fact that the eyes are default "ON" since you are running power out of the eye pin. Maybe turning them "OFF" would help???

Im doing this install on an Angel LED and its not nearly as difficult to figure out. Maybe I will just pay Coolhand to do it.

[Banshee23]

Hmmm, I have my emag working off the HES just fine. You guys got WAAAAY too hung up on the colors that Tuna listed. You can use whatever color wires wherever you want. The HES red wire goes to #4, the HES yellow to #11 & HES black to #12. I can't remember if I had to switch the order of #11 & #12 as Tuna said for it to work as it's not in front of me right now, I'll check when I get home later.

[BigEvil]

Hmmm, I have my emag working off the HES just fine. You guys got WAAAAY too hung up on the colors that Tuna listed. You can use whatever color wires wherever you want. The HES red wire goes to #4, the HES yellow to #11 & HES black to #12. I can't remember if I had to switch the order of #11 & #12 as Tuna said for it to work as it's not in front of me right now, I'll check when I get home later.

Problem becomes how to install it if you use the ACE or Eyes.

[Banshee23]

Get the HES working first then figure it out :) I'm actually dropping in an Xmag ACE board tonight on mine, only two wires to worry about though.

[athomas]

Its not the wire colors of the morlock I am concerned with, its the color of the HES wires that got me. It appears that some of the emags used a different color scheme, hence some of the installations don't function properly.

[Banshee23]

Its not the wire colors of the morlock I am concerned with, its the color of the HES wires that got me. It appears that some of the emags used a different color scheme, hence some of the installations don't function properly.

I'll have to remember to check on mine what the order of the wires is on the HES too then. I'll have an answer later tonight for you.

[athomas]

It doesn't matter for me right now. My HES is toast. :( I have to find a replacement part or order a new HES from AGD. I'm holding out for a part replacement because I hate having to pay large amounts of money for a $1.00 part

I will be interested in seeing what the wiring order of the hes pins indicate though. Let us know.

[UpliftedApe]

I haven't had any success using just the microswitch alone to fire the mag, let alone the HES I am getting truly sick of this to where I get to where I wanna start throwing things. This should have been the 20 minutes ordeal yesterday. I have tried wiring thing several different way I broke down and bought aligator clips from radio shack to try different combinations. I implore anyone who has managed to wire in successfully one of the "new" predator morloacks ,which is a mini morlock into their mag to shed some light on the problems we are having, or at least I am having, I plan on contacting coolhand or one of the other installers or asking my local pnall shop if they have the ability.

[Banshee23]

K I checked & I have the HES yellow going to #11, the HES black to #12, & the HES red to #4. On the HES itself the black is on top, yellow in middle, & then red on bottom.

[BigEvil]

Anyone??????

[athomas]

That's the same as mine.

[BigEvil]

K I checked & I have the HES yellow going to #11, the HES black to #12, & the HES red to #4. On the HES itself the black is on top, yellow in middle, & then red on bottom.

After checking my ACE on the Xmag... I found that it only needs 2 wires, since the power from the battery runs through the ACE board and out to the main board.

I'm not sure how this would work with break beams, but for the AGD ACE that schematic should do it.

Let me know if anyone else tries it.

[athomas]

I got some HES sensors.

Of note:

I tried 4 different HES sensors until I found one that worked. A couple of Optek sensors had the correct actuating distance but created mad full auto. I found that two different Panasonic hall effect sensors worked. One was a little more sensitive than the other so it allowed the HES to activate farther out, which would be nice if your trigger point is close and your magnet sticks out the back of your trigger too far.

The Panasonic sensor I chose allowed my trigger to function without any magnet adjustment at all. It was a drop in replacement. Who hoo!! I couldn't get a reference sheet on it but I bought it from Digikey. The Digikey# is DN6852-A-ND. The more sensitive one that also worked was #DN6848-ND.

The connections are as follows:

Sensor-facing front; sensor pin1=vcc connected to morlock pin 1(eye+5v) , sensor pin2=gnd connected to morlock pin11(trigger-), sensor pin3=output connected to morlock pin 12(trigger+).

Using this configuration, the HES works fine with the morlock board. I haven't tried eyes, so I don't know how doubling up the feed from morlock pin 1 will affect the HES and the eyes. The proper connection should probably be pin 1 since it is noted as being a +5v supply so it should work fine with eyes.

Hope this info helps.

Edit: part numbers had an incorrect number in there

[athomas]

Update:

I had to use the more sensitive HES. The less sensitive one had too large a hysteresis (I had to release the trigger too far after firing). The more sensitive HES (Digikey # DN6948-ND) is working like a charm right now.

If I hadn't fried my original HES (I don't know how I did it), I am sure it would have worked right off the bat.

[Banshee23]

Just curious why you are using the 5v that's meant for the eye when #4 (emitter +) is also a 5v output? Also solves your question of what to do if you install eyes as you're not tapped into either of those lines.

[BigEvil]

Just curious why you are using the 5v that's meant for the eye when #4 (emitter +) is also a 5v output? Also solves your question of what to do if you install eyes as you're not tapped into either of those lines.


Because you need another 5v to power the HES. The Predator Morlock only has 5v output for the eyes. The problem being that if you use eyes than you need to get that 5v from somewhere. The only other thing I can think of, is to run the 18v to the board, than, at the pin, run another line with a 5v reg on it. That way, you get the 18v you need to run the noid, and the 5v you need for the HES.

Than again, I dont know anything, ESPECIALLY if that will work. Im just talking out of my rear-end.

[Banshee23]

Because you need another 5v to power the HES. The Predator Morlock only has 5v output for the eyes. The problem being that if you use eyes than you need to get that 5v from somewhere. The only other thing I can think of, is to run the 18v to the board, than, at the pin, run another line with a 5v reg on it. That way, you get the 18v you need to run the noid, and the 5v you need for the HES.

Than again, I dont know anything, ESPECIALLY if that will work. Im just talking out of my rear-end.

Yeah break beam eyes muck everything up unfortunately. That's why I'm using the reflective eye :) I would guess that the 5v reg would work BTW, it's a little bit of a pain but I don't see why there would be a problem.

[REDRT]

My board wouldn't work so i reversed the yellow and blk. Yellow is 12, black 11, I put the red at 1 for the HES.

[BigEvil]

My board wouldn't work so i reversed the yellow and blk. Yellow is 12, black 11, I put the red at 1 for the HES.

Now that its working... how do you like it? Is it a major improvement???

[REDRT]

Now that its working... how do you like it? Is it a major improvement???

I like! BIG improvement!! I would have been happy with AGD 4.xx, but since they don't want to give it up. This little baby was my next choice. Maybe the best choice. Their lose. It is awesome what you can do. Literly you can adjust everything.

[Banshee23]

Just got an answer back from Coolhand on wiring the eyes up. With the reflective eye you need to either jumper the two emitter or eye ports that you aren't using (as the Xmag ACE board has two wires) or you have to wire all four ports to the ACE. I PM'd him back to see if this messes with the HES using one of the 5v ports also, but since he didn't mention any problems in the first PM I'm guessing that it's ok for the HES and and eye component to share the same port. I'll let you know definitively when he PM's me back.

Edit: Got confirmation from Coolhand, splitting into the 5v leads doesn't adversly affect the eyes or the HES, they work just fine off the same line. :)

[BigEvil]

Just got an answer back from Coolhand on wiring the eyes up. With the reflective eye you need to either jumper the two emitter or eye ports that you aren't using (as the Xmag ACE board has two wires) or you have to wire all four ports to the ACE. I PM'd him back to see if this messes with the HES using one of the 5v ports also, but since he didn't mention any problems in the first PM I'm guessing that it's ok for the HES and and eye component to share the same port. I'll let you know definitively when he PM's me back.

Edit: Got confirmation from Coolhand, splitting into the 5v leads doesn't adversly affect the eyes or the HES, they work just fine off the same line. :)


I figured that was the obvious solution, but myself and I thing a few others of us werent sure if splitting an eye port would affect either the eye or the HES.

I just got my first Predator Morlock board from Coolhand yesterday that I am going to install in my Angel LED. I have the wiring all planned out and it doesnt look all that difficult, but let me tell you , the diagram that comes with it from TAG leaves a lot to be desired. FIrst thing I couldnt figure out, was WHICH SIDE OF THE WIRE CONNECTOR IS FRONT AND WHICH ONE IS BACK? UGH!!.

If I got this right, when you are looking at the board with the LED facing you, the Grey and black wires should be on the RIGHT

Also, the clear eye is the emitter(black and orange wires), and the dark one is the receiver (white and green wires)

I would think that this would be made a little more fool proof. Oh well, if I blow it up I'll take pics :rofl:

[athomas]

If I got this right, when you are looking at the board with the LED facing you, the Grey and black wires should be on the RIGHT

You are correct.

[MindJob]

Anyone have any updates?

I just finished my Angel LED and the thing ROCKS. I cant wait to start ripping apart one of my mags.

[athomas]

Mine works but it seems to be locked at ~10bps. I haven't had time to work on it but I may put it on the scope next week and play with it some.

[SteveoSupremo]

Sorry to resurect a dead post but where did you find thoes Hall efect sensors? I'm getting nothing searching thoes partnumbers in Digikey.
--SteveO

[athomas]

I changed the numbers. I accidently put a 9 instead of an 8 in both numbers. :rolleyes:

See the part numbers as they are listed now.

The Digikey# is DN6852-A-ND. The more sensitive one that also worked was #DN6848-ND.

I ended up using the more sensitive of the two.