I hate my xvalve

[PBCapo]

lol, im starting to feel like dirty bunny:p Can someone help me out here?

got an xvalve for xmas. I hooked it up at first, without oiling anything or doing anything. I gassed it up, and i didnt get any pressure from the on/off and hence the trigger didnt get any pressure. I unscrewed the tank and posted to see waht to do. Some one said put the velocity up. I gassed it up, put up the velocity, and nothing happened. I took the gun apart, and the body was stuck to the valve because the valve had retained the pressure somehow. I pushed the on/off pin a bit and the gun valve cycled, which caused me to drop it, and the on/off assy came out, and i lost the small oring that belongs on top of the on/off assy, and grease was everywhere. I gassed the gun up without the small oring and oiled the on/off assy. The trigger got some pressure, but it wouldnt shoot. I took out the valve and left it alone until today. I planned on buying an oring kit to replace that oring, but instead, today i bought a ult kit. I took out the one oring that was in the on/off assy hole, and put in the ult. Same thing happened, the trigger didnt get any pressure. I don't wanna mess anything up now, so what should i do to make it work?


I pm'ed cphil asking for help. He told me to oil the ult and add 2 spacers. I did, when i screwed it back in it didnt tighten up too much, is it supposed to spin freely? I put it back in and the same thing happened, no pressure going to the trigger. This sucks:(

[GT]

look in my sig... I made that procedure for new X valve owners. BTW you really really need to turn the velocity up, like a couple of turns. Dont be scared you shouldnt hurt the valve.

jb

[pbguy888]

Did you put in the sear that came with the x valve?

[Major Ho]

I just dont think your setting it up right is all. On the other hand if you really hate it Ill buy it off ya :)

[PBCapo]

yea i used the sear that came with the x. gtrsi, how does that clip help me? lol, i'll try turning up the velocity more, but i dont think that will do anything if the trigger doesnt get any pressure to begin with

[PBCapo]

okay, i gassed it up, turned the velocity up a crapload, and after a while it suddenly started leaking down the barrel, a lot of gas came through

[The Deacon]

Hey, I got my x a few days ago, had same problem w/ no trig pressure. I attribiuted it to the lack of pressure in my tank (about 600 psi) but my rt had pressure on the trigger at that much psi. I'll go try boosting the velocity up a ton, see if that does anything for me.

[paint magnet]

Does the leaking stop when you pull the trigger and hold it on?

If so then the problem is the powertube oring (NOTE- this is assuming the same problems with the X valve have the same solution as for the Classic valve). I would send it in to AGD, they should fix it up for free if it wasn't working when you bought it new.

[The Deacon]

Nope, turning velocity up to full doesn't even cause a leak. Curious.

[PBCapo]

let me see hold on a sec..no it doesnt, the trigger still doesnt get any pressure, so pulling it doesnt do much of anything

[paint magnet]

TheDeacon - sorry, I probably should have specified, but I was asking PBCapo :)

[poolshark5226]

Its a problem with the sear and trigger pin assembly, something about how you need to set it up. This happened in my X-valve'd mag after taking out and putting in the valve several times. Both times messing with the pin placing (I guess) fixed the problem.

[The Deacon]

grr, get this: the regulator won't unscrew from the valve. Period. What the heck is going on?

[The Deacon]

the lines don't match up on the reg and valve. It WILL NOT budge. The on/off assembly (ULT) was hard to get out too. What is going on here?

[nastymag]

check your lvl10

if the spring is too stiff... you should tune it up.

[The Deacon]

my theory that no gas was getting to the valve just got shot in the butt.

I gassed it up w/ the valve out of the gun, it leaked "down the barrel" so that was good, and I let off of the on/off and it shot out, so that's good. The pin is not popping out like it should however.

I'm going to stick the stock on/off back in and see what happens.

[PBCapo]

holy crap deacon ur scaring me, same exact. I cant unscrew the reg from the valve, and the ult was hard to get out after i put it in, it took me like 10 minutes with a little nail file thing. however, the lines on the bottom do line up for me. Did your valve work before you bought the ult? what is the serial number on your valve?

[coolcatpete]

Turn the velocity up until it leeks out of the back of the x-valve, then turn it back down until it stops. This worked for me when I got mine. I had all the same problem except for the dropping. If this doesnt work PM me I will think of something.
Pete

[PBCapo]

i cant put the stock on/off back in because i lost that damn oring

[The Deacon]

never worked, not even w/ the stock on/off. serial is: vv03684. WHY WON'T IT WORK?!?!??!?

[PBCapo]

someone help me and deacon, this sucks

[The Deacon]

veloc up and down doesn't do anything. can you unscrew your reg from the valve, pbcapo?

[cphilip]

Thats not in the least all I told you to do. And you seem to have failed to mention some stuff here that you did before you contacted me. Go back and reveiw. I told you a entire proceedure of things to do. And you never came back to me with anything after that.

[coolcatpete]

May be a stupid question but How much air does your tank have in it
Pete

[The Deacon]

mine has roughly 700 psi, not enough to fire the gun, but should be plenty for some trigger pressure at least.

[coolcatpete]

Turn your velocity all the way upand if it does not work just keep turning it until you get a little preasure and fill you tank. It all happened to me. You probaly also want to call the tech line.
Pete.

[PBCapo]

i did turn the velocity up and got the leak as mentioned before. I just gassed the valve only up, and the bolt shot across the room, i think that was supposed to happen, and the ult came out of the valve a bit, but didn't shoot out, is that all normal?

[The Deacon]

exact same thing that happened to me capo, just make sure not to have the bolt in next time, :D

[coolcatpete]

Originally posted by PBCapo
okay, i gassed it up, turned the velocity up a crapload, and after a while it suddenly started leaking down the barrel, a lot of gas came through

You said it leaked down the barrel, it could be your LX leaking but when you turn you velocity up to much it should leak out of the back of the reg.
PEte

[The Deacon]

Mine doesn't leak, period. Nowhere, no how.

[PBCapo]

deacon does your ult spin freely? i put 2 shims in it like cphil told me to, and after it spun freely, no matter how much i tried to tighten it

[The Deacon]

yeah, I can screw it in somewhat and then it hs like a freefloating gap.

[PBCapo]

someone wanna tell us if its supposed to do that?

[PBCapo]

okay cphil says thats normal

[The Deacon]

ask him why my reg won't untwist... ;)

[PBCapo]

i asked him why mine wont untwist, he said it should be able to, if i do it hard enough, i think im gonna end up sending it to him

[The Deacon]

yeah, I'll prolly end up sending mine off too... :(

[cphilip]

You are going to need more than 700 to set this thing up. Your gonna need about 2 grand to do all this and break it in. Its not that hard. First time it can be rather confusing. Its really important that you learn though.

One thing we have all noticed is the regulator pin assemblies on these things are very dry and the sometimes stick early on. What I told capo to do was to twist the two halves apart and directly oil the rubber assembly in there first thing. Thats a particularly dry place that oil does not get to easily. And it often can use a lube before you start using these valves. I suggest you do that first thing. And get plenty of air. be carefull you dissasemble and reassemble everything exacty right. Just go slow and refer to the diagram at AGD site and you will soon learn more about your marker. There is a brass ring like thing and an oring that you need to remove before you pull the reg assembly out. And you want to go carefull lining it back up into the back half's hole as you rescrew it back together.

[The Deacon]

Thanks for the help phil, but I really think my main problem is that the regulator half of the valve is stuck to the front half. The lines do not match up and will not unscrew. I have no idea how to get them apart, all brute force and attempts at lubrication have failed me.

[GT]

Originally posted by PBCapo
ye gtrsi, how does that clip help me?

The link holmes..... how to build a mag. It has a step by step guide...

EDIT: I am on aim, turb0minnow ,if you need some help.

[cphilip]

Those two halves have a oring keeping them air tight. And that has to be broken lose to get them apart. Now I not saying yours is not screwed but I suspect not. Its often rather tight the first time on a new valve. But that is the area I wanted you to get into to lube. So if you cannot then I got no answer for you. If you believe its screwed up then return it. If you know someone that does have a lot of experience with then then let them have a look see first. But you do need to get that apart but NOT damage the valve doing it.

And they often do not line up. That means very little. That oring varies a little in thickness. I suspect you got a thick one and so its tight before they line up. Really doesn't matter. It matters that it does not leak is all.

[The Deacon]

I do think it's out of alignment w/ the z-lock pin so I think the on/off isn't aligned w/ the triggerframe which would explain almost everything.

[The Deacon]

Woo got it! Took some major brute force, didn't damage the valve and it's apart! LUBE TIME! :D

[cphilip]

Not really. The Field Strip screw makes everything align.

Now if you had no rail bushing then it can't

But if your problem is like Capo's then its a dry reg assembly or a level 10 slop.

What kind of markers are these X Valves going into?

[The Deacon]

Roguerailed, IT bodied, intelliframed. I was using an RT Pro valve before and it was flawless.

[cphilip]

In my opinon its a dry sticking reg assembly most likely. You have to get into the back to fix that.

[cphilip]

Originally posted by The Deacon
Woo got it! Took some major brute force, didn't damage the valve and it's apart! LUBE TIME! :D

YAY! Ok now pull that reg assembly and lube the heck outa it and work it in a few times. Then we start over here!

[cphilip]

Do you have any Dow 33 grease? Robagd and Tunaman told me a trick here that does help if you do. If not just use marker oil. Its not critical. But they mix a little dow 33 with marker oil and smear that on the outside. Makes it stick ont here better and only have to do it once is all. If not oil will work fine.

[The Deacon]

Ok, the reg has been thoroughly lubed.

[The Deacon]

Sorry, I only have marker oil.

[cphilip]

Thats cool. Now let me ask you this... are you also installing a ULT? Like capo?

[The Deacon]

Yes I am, sir.

[cphilip]

First question: Did you remove ALL the orings from the on off hole before you tried it? The little and bigger ones stuck up in the top of the on off hole. They need to come out too.

Second question: Do you still have the regular on off assembly and its orings to put back in first? We could get it shooting with that first and then move on to the ULT because we are eliminating and tuning one step at a time that way. It probably needs a little oil in there too.

Third question: did you double check the carrier fit on the level 10 and oil it a tiny bit?

[The Deacon]

I did remove all o-rings for ult. I will check carrier and original on/off real quick. Give me a minute or two.

[cphilip]

You are going to shoot now....I can feel it.... :D

Air? you got air? Need it!!!!

Don't forget to return those two top orings and oil the pin and slide it back and forth a little if your going to put the normal on off back in for a bit.

[The Deacon]

I'm down below needed pressure now. The trigger on my Retro would still get gassed at 600 like it is now, but this one won't. I guess I'l lgo get a fill asap tomorrow morning then dink with it tomorrow. Thanks a ton for all the help though, Phil!

[cphilip]

Its most likely not going to on this one. Mainly because its tight and the level 10 is not set yet and all. Its gonna need a blast and then some volume adjustment. Drop me a pm tomorrow if its not working when you get air. We get it going. I think its gonna fire up now. get it going with that normal on off and set good and then that ULT will be a sinch of a drop in from there.

[cphilip]

This is what needs the lube. Just to be sure we on the right track

http://store.airgun.com/agdprod/images/parts/Regpin_2.jpg

[The Deacon]

Right. I'll let you know tomorrow, thanks again for all your help!

[PBCapo]

cphil the deacon's inspired me, im gonna wait a bit on sending my gun out:p

[cphilip]

Sure! Its the best thing is to do these things yourself. You learn so much more that way. And it will work. I know it will!

[PBCapo]

hahahaha! i had a burst of confidence and i pulled really hard and it unscrewed! lube time! and i have air!!!

[PBCapo]

i took off the copper piece with the oring in it. Now i see the pin that the copper piece was on and another oring. They both go into a hole. Do i pull this pin as hard as i can until this comes out? I cant get the pin to move much, but i'll try if its what im supposed to do

[PBCapo]

i got out the reg assembly out and i looked at the 3 orings at the end away from the pin. The one in the middle had a break on it, no too bad but didnt look right, is that oring the culprit, or should i just oil this whole assembly, which btw is very very dry

[PBCapo]

aww hell i oiled it all up and put it back and gassed it up and it still doesnt work. Is that broken oring the problem?

[Jerhew]

no the middle piece is just a spacer, it's supposed to have a split in it

lube it up and slip it back in
if you're leaking out of the barrel chances are you're lx carrier is too loose
go to the next smallest one and try again

once that's fixed, just try cranking the velocity up until it leaks out the back...
then back it off a bit(until it stops leaking) and see if it fires
i've noticed that until everything is broken in, especially the lx and ult, the gun is going to act a bit erratic...
might not want to fire everytime...
it gets better the more you use it
just remember to use lots of GOOD paintball lube everywhere(the lx, the ult, and even put some in the asa)...
kc troublefree lube is a popular choice..

[PBCapo]

you dont understand though. There is no leak, and there is no pressure to the trigger, and nobody knows what to do. I put lube all over the reg assy, and the ult, and when i gas it up, absolutely nothing happens.

[cphilip]

Now start turning the velocity up. It will eventually charge up keep turning it up till it does. I do not think the reg assembly is damaged. Your biggest problem here is you tried to do too much at once. Now you have level 10 to set up AND a ULT. Since you lost some of your main On Off you cannot eliminate that part by putting the regular on off in and get it shooting first before install of the ULT. thats still doable but its your velocity and level 10 now that needs to be set up.

[The Deacon]

Yay! It worked! Phil, you da man! Thanks for all the patience and dedication!

Now, I was tuning my LX and ULT, and on the ULT I'm getting wicked mad bounce, but if I ditch one shim, it doesn't shoot. Do I just need to break it in, or what?

Also, I get about 2 games in, then I start getting bolt stick. I throw a shim in, and it wokrs fine for another 2 games, then I get bolt stick. Is this normal while I'm breaking it in? Thanks!

[Jerhew]

Originally posted by PBCapo
you dont understand though. There is no leak, and there is no pressure to the trigger, and nobody knows what to do. I put lube all over the reg assy, and the ult, and when i gas it up, absolutely nothing happens.

i thought you said it leaked down the barrel...anyway
you mean to tell me you cranked the velocity in all the way and it didn't leak?
unless you're out of air, it's will leak out of the back of the gun if you turn it up far enough

[coolcatpete]

Originally posted by Jerhew


i thought you said it leaked down the barrel...anyway
you mean to tell me you cranked the velocity in all the way and it didn't leak?
unless you're out of air, it's will leak out of the back of the gun if you turn it up far enough
No I thought that was the deacon who had it leak out the barrel.
Pete

[Jerhew]

Originally posted by coolcatpete

No I thought that was the deacon who had it leak out the barrel.
Pete

i stand corrected.
in any case, turn the velocity up...and dont be afraid to crank it up

[coolcatpete]

Originally posted by Jerhew


i stand corrected.
in any case, turn the velocity up...and dont be afraid to crank it up Yeah thats what I told him too now The decons works, thanks to cphilip now lets look at pb capos
Pete

[BD_Paintball]

crank it up and when i leaks out the back, dont get shot in the eye with oil. I almost did when i did it. it should work when you crank that mother up.

[cphilip]

Originally posted by The Deacon
Yay! It worked! Phil, you da man! Thanks for all the patience and dedication!

Now, I was tuning my LX and ULT, and on the ULT I'm getting wicked mad bounce, but if I ditch one shim, it doesn't shoot. Do I just need to break it in, or what?

Also, I get about 2 games in, then I start getting bolt stick. I throw a shim in, and it wokrs fine for another 2 games, then I get bolt stick. Is this normal while I'm breaking it in? Thanks!

Great!

Break it in some first and then see. Whats your input? One shim should not take it from bounce to no shoot. Thats odd. The normal swing between those two points is like four shims. Start with four and see what happens. Should be two in there. Make sure none of them got bent too. That could do it. Oil that pin in there and move it up and down some too.

Your other problem sounds like a level 10 carrier size issue not a shim issue. Might be breaking in. Try one tighter. And then try one loser if that fails to give you dependable shooting. Also make sure your barrel is aligning and your detents are right. Also VERY IMPORTANT what spring are you using? The longest one sometimes will not shoot very consistently and sometimes will only work with heavy oil. The middle one is way more dependable. And the Short stock one is very dependable but hardest on paint. You want to use the Middle one. Its either going to be the cut on or it might be Red if its the later model of the Middle spring.

[The Deacon]

My input is at 850 (preset Crossfire). I'll dink with the ULT some more here soon.

I'll try the carrier trick too. I'm using the smallest spring, but I'll see if I can step up to the medium. That might kill the bolt stick for me.

Personally, I think it was when I did the "sign of the cross" over the vavle that it worked. I think I'll take it to church and get it blessed for the maximum in ULT and LX tuning! :D

Thanks again!

[Jerhew]

ah so um
did pbcapo fix his or what?!....

[athomas]

Deacon, the best way to kill bolt stick is too increase the carrier size. The stiffer spring just increases the operating velocity range.

I suspect that part of PBCapo's problem is also carrier related. Increase a carrier size to free up the bolt and turn up the velocity.

[The Deacon]

Ok, finally was able to get a refill to finalize things.

No more bolt stick, went up a carrier, no leak, and no bolt stick. PROBLEM SOLVED! Thanks!

Now, with the ULT, do you want as many shims in without bounce or as few shims and no shooting? Which yields the lightest pull? I'm using 1 shim and the trigger feels only marginally lighter than it used to be.

[cphilip]

Capo reported to me that after lubing everything he is now fixed and running.

More shims = lighter trigger.

Less shims = More reactivity but heavier pull.

Its like shortening your on off pin each time you add a shim. But at some point it may go Full Auto and not catch on the sear reliably. So too many is a problem at some point. I been running four or five ULT shims in my RTP and thats about medium. Last time I messed with it I left it at 4 ULT shims. Not too light and not too heavy and very dependable lock up.

Remember that 2 ULT shims = 1 Level 10 shim.