Very Important Regarding A Post Being Deleted

[zvanut]

ok,
when magman007 started a poll a day ago it was for a little fun, now it is completly deleted. no one gave an explanation as to where it went or anything. i am just wondering who deleted it and why???

[MajorDamage]

Same thing happened to me the other day...

ENDO!

[Army]

Admins or Mods need not to give reasons for edits or deletions in Friendly Corner. Perhaps somebody posted something nasty or inappropriate, giving the Mod or Admin cause to delete.

...and before you ask, no, we don't have an archive to retrieve the thread from.:cool:

[BlackVCG]

I have not deleted any threads in quite some time. Therefore I did not delete the poll or MajorDamage's thread (whatever it was).

[InfinatyBPS]

what was the poll about?

[shartley]

AMEN!

[zvanut]

ok thanx guys, just tryin to figure out who did it.

[magman007]

So ryan time to give up the title, i was winning by popular vote, i will take the title this weekend ok???

[zvanut]

i dont think so.....

[-Jôker-]

yea one of my posts dissapeared to

[cphilip]

Wasn't me. In fact I posted on it.

[-Jôker-]

talkin bout mine on the big game cp?

[cphilip]

No joker. But even so the answers the same. Not me. I don't think I even saw that one.

[Dubstar112]

giving a reason will help us under stand what is border line acceptable and what is not.... Not that i have a problem with this or anything

[cphilip]

We almost always give a reason out of courtesy. Don't have to...just do. However mistakes are made. And they are un-retreveable. And with a new system and all...likely...for a day or so. But it's also possible there is a few hidden glitches right now. And further the post author can delete them as well. We wouldn't know.

In the case of severe multiple cursing and or offensive pictures..its gone Poof! No reason to even take the time to explain. Can't take the time to explain. If it can be edited out we do that. And then warn. Only once I had to take the whole post out. Long back and only the once. But it was not salvagable. But thats rare.

Re-post them and/or get with your lives I say. Nothing we can do about it now.

[RobAGD]

I deleted it.

I have deleted several lame poll post. The polls are being used for rather lame things and thats why several have just vanished.

That simple

I also don't feel like justifing my actions everytime I edit or delete a post.

-Robert

[shartley]

RobAGD:
No offense Rob, because I fully agree about not having to explain WHY you delete things…

BUT if you DO say you did it, and explain WHY you did it… the least you could do is have a VALID reason FOR doing it. And the reason you posted for doing it could not be farther from any valid reason to delete a Thread, Post, or Poll.


I have deleted several lame poll post. The polls are being used for rather lame things and thats why several have just vanished.

This is just not acceptable. It more than borders on undue censorship, and is NOT in keeping with AO’s Posting Policies. Are you going to now decide what Post is lame, or what Threads don’t meet your criteria for posting? This was not the intent of Moderators or Admins, it was to keep Offensive things off the boards, and not things that you feel are “lame”.

And if the Post or Poll is in the correct Forum, it should make NO difference to you what it is about as long as it falls within your posting guidelines… and that Poll DID. I too thought it was silly, but would have NEVER presumed to DELETE it, let alone announce to all AO WHY I did it.

I could point out dozens of “lame” posts on ALL the Forums, does that mean if I was a Moderator I could (or should) take it upon myself to simply Delete them? You disappointed me Rob. And I am sure you did so to many of your fellow AO Members. And from someone who has come across a bit pompous at times, I can say with all honesty that I never came CLOSE to how you came off in your post.

I think you may need to rethink your actions. But then again, who am I right?

[ben_JD]

It is impossible for a non-governmental entity (e.g., Rob) to censor anyone. This is a private board paid for by money out of the coffers of a private Illinois corporation. They or their agents (moderators on this board) can erase anything for any reason with as little or as much an explanation as they wish.

Having said that, I must say that I agree with Mr. Hartley wholeheartedly. I use this friendly forum to post and read comments. I am sure that if this discriminate use of veto power were carried further, I would cease to visit here.

Again, let me reiterate for those of you who have already forgotten what I wrote in the first paragraph: Automags Online forum has EVERY right to change and/or delete any post they choose. We don’t pay a nickle for this forum nor do we have any real good argument at any implied contractual basis for its use (complete lack of consideration, in legal jargon).

But I think that for the spirit of this online forum to be carried forward, arbitrary deletions by one who is disinterested in what one is reading would need to stop.

[Author's note: Please read the following two posts for clarification of this poorly written explanation of the author's intended message.]

[shartley]

ben_JD:
Thank you for your comments. I would like to point out however that you misunderstood part of what I wrote.

And that actually, any time you modify posts or delete them, it IS censorship. It is however LEGAL censorship, and something that actually is needed to maintain order and protect the image of the Board Owners. So with all due respect, in fact there IS such a thing as private censorship.

Also take a look at how many times we, ourselves, go back and change what we posted…. Many times THAT is also censorship, just self-imposed. ;)

Now, if I may…

What I said was the following:

This is just not acceptable. It more than borders on undue censorship, and is NOT in keeping with AO’s Posting Policies.

I was not saying that I don’t agree with censorship. I was also not saying that I thought AO should NOT be censored, or that they did not have that right…. Because it SHOULD, and they DO. The key word was UNDUE, and that it was NOT in keeping with AO’s Posting Policies.

So in essence, we are in total agreement on all points… minus the fact that there is no such thing as Private Censorship.. which clearly there is. But on all other points, you said what I feared would end up happening…. The loss of participation. I hope others mirror our thoughts and beliefs. This has gotten out of hand lately.

Thank you for your support.

[ben_JD]

I think we are in agreement.

Further, I tend to agree with your reiteration of private censorship. My unartfully written monologue focused merely on what was legal and within Automags Online rights; it wasn't meant to be a direct rebuke or correction of what you were trying to say. What should have been said is that there is no such thing as unconstitutional private censorship.

Undue censorship which is completely within the moderators' right is the focus of the complaint.

[RobAGD]

I deletes the post becuse the polls were serving no real point, along with several other poll post.

Poll post were getting out of hand for non sence.

shartley - I don't honestly give .02 about what you think of me.

To anyone else, If a post is deleted deal with it.

While this forum is free and generally very open, I will still clean out the garbage as I see fit. That is part of why I am a mod. Some things might be deleted for posting guide lines and other might be delete for any number of reasons not stated in the general posting guild lines.

and once again I will state I could honestly care less what you may think of me. I don't look to the people in this forum for validation of what I do.

-Robert

[Cha0tic]

i think rob made me wet my pants....

your kinda scary, you know that?

[ben_JD]

Quote from the official rules of this forum:

"These rules may change at any point and changes will be posted on the forum."
If we truly are operating under a newly sanctioned rule that one must only post on subjects in a fashion which is satisfactory to the mood of the moderators, then so be it. But that new rule should be elucidated in an easily decipherable form available to all members of this forum.

This is not anarchy where patrons are deluging the site with banal and trite polls. If the occasional (or slightly more-frequent-than-occasional) poll is posted which has no relevance to topics found interesting by the forum members at-large, then that poll will quickly fade to the “bottom” of the posting mechanism and be forgotten. That is how this forum is designed. If people decide for themselves that the off-topic poll placed in the off-topic forum is entertaining, thought provoking, humorous or in any way interesting, then they will comment and vote and keep the thread at the “top of the page” per their collective desire.

Furthermore, it is not my impression that anyone is offering or withholding validation to anyone else via their posts’ worth in this forum. Someone raising an issue of concern at the way they are seeing others be treated in what has been constructed as an admittedly off-topic forum is natural and part of the free speech engendered and encouraged by forums just like this one. No one has stated that their right to free speech carries over to this forum, only that they are already operating well within the rules established by this forum and it would be common courtesy to abide by the board’s own assertion that changes in the rules be broadcast.

[Army]

The so-called "poll" was being used and abused by the two members about whom the poll was all about. The Mods have the afforded option to decide which topic and/or poll is simply wasting bandwidth. Rob did what he has been asked to do, maintain the board.

:cool:

[ben_JD]

Abuse is certainly a worthy cause for deleting any post. What is baffling is not that the poll(s) and/or post(s) were deleted, but that the reasons affirmatively given were because they were lame, pointless and nonsensical.

Not one person has commented against the board's sole discretion to delete posts for any of these or other reasons; it is just confusing that the criterion used in this instance was so capricious.

[shartley]

I would seriously suggest people get in touch with Tom on this issue. What was done was NOT in accordance with the “spirit” of AO. I understand the Moderators wanting to “show” a united front on this issue (Army), but Rob, you are WAY out of line, and were not only NOT doing what you were asked to do, but arbitrarily deleting what you thought was “lame”. Read your own post. And that is NOT what Admin and Moderators are for... then read MY post again.

You are directly representing AGD and AO, and your comments as such are disgraceful. You are truly a very gifted and intelligent person. You bring much information and knowledge to AGD and AO, but your PR skills will be your downfall. This is truly NOT your strong point. It seems that your temperament and lack of any self-control makes you unsuited for addressing or contact with the public in any official capacity.

As was stated, it was not so much even WHAT you did, but WHY you did it, and your brazen and careless manner in telling the AO Public about it. There were VALID points brought up and you fail to address even ONE of them, but only want to fall back on your “powers” and the fact that you could care less what any of us think about the issue. OR should I say, what I think? But if you were to run a poll (no pun intended), you may find that more feel the way I do than you would like to admit.

I am the wrong person to get into this type of debate with Rob. While you may be the King of the workbench, you are NOW jumping in MY territory. And I think Tom would not like to see how you represented AGD on this issue. This is truly an AGD owned Site, but one designed FOR its Customers. You had BETTER keep that in mind. And I suggest you clean up your act before you embarrass yourself any further and bring potential harm to AGD’s Reputation, and YOURS.

Again, I advise people getting in touch with AGD and Tom on this issue. I was willing to let things pass after initially posting my opinions on this matter, but Rob’s response indicates that more indeed needs to be done. His total lack of professionalism, tact, and PR sills as well as his apparent lack of understanding of his “position” and the powers and the responsibility they bring, is something that should be addressed ASAP.

[AGD]

I am on the scene now, I am locking this thread in order that I can get this thing straightened out. I will be forwarding clear and consistent rules of conduct to the mods. We do not operate in a haphazard manner here and feedback is the only thing that will make this board better.

AGD