a way to help AKA and kick SP in the nuts at the same time...

[Gabriel]

Ok, so here it is... there is a thread on PBN in the AKA forum where you can send in your freak and $35 to have the SP logos milled off and an X milled over the crosshair emblem. $10 from each order goes to the SP defense fund.

Check it out...
http://pbnation.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=378953&perpage=21&pagenumber=1

And, just for good measure, here is the thread on how to simply donate to the fund:
http://pbnation.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=377089



Now, you all know that AKA is planning on fighting this thing. We have to help. If they lose, then SP has precident. That means ****ty things for the rest of the market. And for all of you people that dont exactly know whats going on, the short of it is SP patented the shocker design in 98. Then, last year, they applied for an expansion of the patent to where it says 'all paintball markers using electricity, a switch, or a selinoid to activate the firing mechanism.' That is pretty crappy, and that is why alot of people are anti-SP now. Let's help buck this thing before it comes the AGD.

[Gabriel]

mods, I know the lawsuit has been explained before, that was for people who dont want to do a search. This barrel thing is new, so I'm just passing the word on.

Gabe

[Miscue]

The barrel thing has been posted before... closed.

[AGD]

I'm reopening...

AGD

[afrankart]

Rock on Tom!

[shartley]

People are fee to do what they want to the equipment they purchase, but I have to say that this is about the most childish thing I have ever seen. And for another manufacturer to support it just makes me shake my head.

However, SP already got paid for those parts. The only one folks are hurting is…. well… no one. This reminds me of when the Feminist Movement went around burning their bras. And that changed a lot too, didn’t it?

And how about when folks broke all those Dixie Chicks CD’s? Once an item is SOLD it already helped the people selling it. And the number of times it is resold (such as paintball gear/parts) it does NOT help the actual manufacturer since they don’t see a dime of that. Want to really “hurt” SP? Do not buy their products (new). It is that simple.

Destruction or defacement of their product is only a childish way to make YOURSELF feel good, but it really doesn’t hurt SP one bit. But like I said, folks are free to do what they want, and think anything is “cool” that they want to. I just thought that AO and AGD were above this kind of thing. See, it proves I can be wrong. ;)

[cledford]

Originally posted by shartley
Destruction or defacement of their product is only a childish way to make YOURSELF feel good, but it really doesn’t hurt SP one bit. But like I said, folks are free to do what they want, and think anything is “cool” that they want to. I just thought that AO and AGD were above this kind of thing. See, it proves I can be wrong. ;)

Sam,

I disagree on you opinion and (not so) oblique criticism of Tom. First, the issue is about "defacing" a product. In a hype and image driven industry like paintball, ANYONE (and the more the better) who sends the message that they aren't happy with SP is both hurting *future* sales (to what extent is debatable) and sending a public message that what SP is doing is unacceptable. This opens a whole world of additional players (who otherwise might not know what is going on) to being informed about the issue when they ask why we got our barrels hacked up. In my case I bought the Freak about 3 years ago, long before this issue surfaced - so it's a little to late for me to boycott the company - but I can still send a message to help contribute to the over-all effort. Let me ask you this, is putting a POW/MIA or NRA bumper sticker on your car "defacing" it needlessly? I'd say it's sending a message that the more people who know about an issue the better. While the moral issues in the 2 matters are worlds apart, the point is the same - you do what you can to bring public opinion to a cause to help bring about change. Cosmetic changes are a small price to pay for "billboard" demonstration of your opinion in such a matter. Second, let's not forget that a result of the whole process is that money to fight SP in court (where the real battle is being waged) is going to AKA - so the whole thing isn't even just a pointless gesture - it's contributing something tangible to the fight.

On the Tom issue, he may be a manufacturer, but he is also a player and a "fore-father" of what paintball is today. I think that it is perfectly reasonable for him to have an opinion on this and express it as he sees fit, especially at *his* site - which in this case the display is pretty low key. If he'd posted inflammatory comments at the *OFFICIAL* AGD website that would be one thing, but this forum is as much his playground as ours. To reopen a thread that he thinks is beneficial to a very damaging matter within our community is a far cry from a "childish thing." Since when is he (in his "off" time) held to some ethical obligation higher then you or I? Furthermore, you're a paintball manufacturer (granted on a much smaller scale) (who even markets his wares in substantial part through Tom's site) so using your logic isn't just as bad (if not worse) to show your disapproval of his actions through posting as it for him to show his about SP?

Regarding the bra burning - while I thought it was pretty tasteless I remember it getting A LOT of press. Something has contributed to a huge change in the role of women in society with in the last 2-3ish decades - I'd submit that as one of the rallying events it's individual role may or may not have been significant, but the bra burning sure helped to give momentum to something much larger.

-Calvin

[fire1811]

Originally posted by shartley
This reminds me of when the Feminist Movement went around burning their bras.

is there ANY way we could have that movement again :p

[Gabriel]

Originally posted by AGD
I'm reopening...

AGD

I love Tom


Originally posted by shartley
People are fee to do what they want to the equipment they purchase, but I have to say that this is about the most childish thing I have ever seen. And for another manufacturer to support it just makes me shake my head.


Childish, it is not. It is sending a message to the other people on the fields who may have little to know knowledge about the lawsuit. When they ask 'Hey man, whats up with that barrel? Isn't it a freak... Why did you mill the stuff off?', then you have a chance to tell them about it. Childish? No.

:) *EDITED AFTER SHARTLEY'S LAST POST* :)

Let'S just not forget the whole reason for the posting of this thread was the $10 they are sending per barrel to the AKA defense fund. Also, in my original thread I included a link to the post with information on how to simply donate money. The defacing of the SP barrel is just kind of a banner, which I happen to think is more effective as just simply putting an 'anti-SP' sticker on your gun or hopper. Everyone's got different oppinion, thats what makes america great. it just happens that mine is right... hehe, that was a joke... let's not all get bent out of shape...:D

[shartley]

Hold on there big guy… you are mixing issues and twisting what I actually wrote. I will NOT get into another “shartley” issue simply because I posted my opinion though, so let ALL know that this is the ONLY post I will respond to as it pertains to MY post. Folks are free to post THEIR opinions on the matter, but it gets VERY old when I can’t post mine without people turning a thread into one ABOUT my opion and ot about the original topic.

Originally posted by cledford
Sam,

I disagree on you opinion and (not so) oblique criticism of Tom. First, the issue is about "defacing" a product. In a hype and image driven industry like paintball, ANYONE (and the more the better) who sends the message that they aren't happy with SP is both hurting *future* sales (to what extent is debatable) and sending a public message that what SP is doing is unacceptable. This opens a whole world of additional players (who otherwise might not know what is going on) to being informed about the issue when they ask why we got our barrels hacked up. In my case I bought the Freak about 3 years ago, long before this issue surfaced - so it's a little to late for me to boycott the company - but I can still send a message to help contribute to the over-all effort. Let me ask you this, is putting a POW/MIA or NRA bumper sticker on your car "defacing" it needlessly?
To compare putting a POW and MIA sticker on your car and milling off identifying manufacturer symbols or logos is FAR from being the same thing. To be even remotely the same you would have to take your car, and then mutilate any of the manufacturer’s branding on it, and in a visible way (not simply removing it)… and then still drive around with that vehicle, or park it in your front yard… as a gesture of your distaste for that COMPANY, not about another issue such as the Vietnam War. And I am all for folks putting any kind of stickers they want on their equipment, my comments were about defacement, not adornment.

Originally posted by cledford
I'd say it's sending a message that the more people who know about an issue the better. While the moral issues in the 2 matters are worlds apart, the point is the same - you do what you can to bring public opinion to a cause to help bring about change. Cosmetic changes are a small price to pay for "billboard" demonstration of your opinion in such a matter. Second, let's not forget that a result of the whole process is that money to fight SP in court (where the real battle is being waged) is going to AKA - so the whole thing isn't even just a pointless gesture - it's contributing something tangible to the fight.
Tangible? Again, by mutilating a product it is not something “tangible”. It is a tantrum being tossed by an individual and nothing more. If you can show me how (other than sending a small signal about a person’s distaste for SP) it actually HELPS stop SP from doing ANYTHING, I will admit I am wrong.

Originally posted by cledford
On the Tom issue, he may be a manufacturer, but he is also a player and a "fore-father" of what paintball is today. I think that it is perfectly reasonable for him to have an opinion on this and express it as he sees fit, especially at *his* site - which in this case the display is pretty low key. If he'd posted inflammatory comments at the *OFFICIAL* AGD website that would be one thing, but this forum is as much his playground as ours. To reopen a thread that he thinks is beneficial to a very damaging matter within our community is a far cry from a "childish thing." Since when is he (in his "off" time) held to some ethical obligation higher then you or I? Furthermore, you're a paintball manufacturer (granted on a much smaller scale) (who even markets his wares in substantial part through Tom's site) so using your logic isn't just as bad (if not worse) to show your disapproval of his actions through posting as it for him to show his about SP?
This is more than a bit off base. Why? Because I did not call Tom “childish”, I called the action of defacement childish. Please go read my post again and you will clearly see that the statement may be in the same paragraph, but are not saying the same thing. I am sorry if you thought that is what I meant, but is was not.

Yes, this is Tom’s site. And yes, it is perfectly reasonable for him to have an opinion… AS IT IS FOR ME TO. I have as much right to make a low key statement as he, or anyone else does. But I don’t consider him posting on AO as being “off time” activities. Why? Because this is a marketing medium for him, and even a slight comment on his part is taken with great weight… and I think you know that.

As for me being a manufacturer too. Yes I am. But your comments about me marketing my wears in substantial part through this site… wrong, sorry. Unlike some who market and sell products on AO, I have my own site. I also have a customer base that consist of about 1% (if that much) of AO Members who found out about my products through AO, or purchased them directly from the Dealer’s Forum.

This is not saying AO is not important, but I want folks to know that AO is not as big of a part of my business as FAR too many want to claim it is, or think it is. In fact, most of my business is NOT done on AO, and I don’t even go looking for it… it comes to me. This is not chest puffing, just putting the record straight.

So with that said, NO, my making a VERY small statement and showing my “disapproval” of re-opening a thread that is actually a duplicate of one that was already posted on AO (and that I don’t even think I commented in.. I.E. I stayed out of the issue.) is not worse than opening up the thread itself. Are you saying that I need to keep my opinions to myself on this or any other matter simply because I have threads in the Dealer’s Forum or have a few AO customers? Was I rude in any way? No.

I think you are making WAY more than needs to be made about my small post. If you disagree with it, fine. That is your right. I don’t even fault you for your right, or your opinons. But when people post LIES about ME on this forum and few to any stand up to set the record straight or stand up to “protect” me in any way… I do take offense that such interest is shown to me simply making a small post having my “opinion” in it. Or trying to show that I am somehow “wrong” for doing so.

If folks don’t agree with my post, fine. I knew some would not. But like I said, I will not debate MY opinion on the matter. I simply posted it because everyone else is free to post THEIRS.


Originally posted by cledford
Regarding the bra burning - while I thought it was pretty tasteless I remember it getting A LOT of press. Something has contributed to a huge change in the role of women in society with in the last 2-3ish decades - I'd submit that as one of the rallying events it's individual role may or may not have been significant, but the bra burning sure helped to give momentum to something much larger.

-Calvin
This is true… but I ask… who did it hurt? What did it actually change? I submit that burning bras did NOT change anything. The actions of those in power did…. And they didn’t burn any bras. I will also point out that the ONLY place this “product defacement” is being seen is on a few internet forums. If you can get this action on NATIONAL NEWS I will rethink what “good” it actually does in the way of helping bring attention to an issue. After all, the burning of bras DID make national news.

I would also like to point out that I am in NO way upset about this, nor your post. I am just trying to clear up a couple issues that were brought up and were a bit misleading, and actually not correct. My use of CAPITALIZATION is not to shout, but to bring attention to certain words (I am sure you know this about my style of writing.. I am just clarifying it for everyone). I am also NOT supporting SP or their actions. In fact, I am also NOT NOT supporting their actions either. LOL

I was simply stating my opinion of product defacement, and how it really helps or does not help the situation. Note that I also mentioned the Dixie Chicks CDs…. And I didn’t agree with what THEY did either, but don’t think breaking their CDs did anything more than make those doing the breaking feel better. And THEY even made national news….

It’s all good. We are all entitled to our opinions. I will not however, argue mine further. I think this post cleared up any confusions folks may have had. Agree, disagree, it is all fine and well. Discuss it further, I will not. ;)

Originally posted by fire1811
is there ANY way we could have that movement again :p
LOL Who knows! :D

[AGD]

This is getting stupid.

Closed

AGD