RT ULE VS. 2003 Vertical Cocker wOrrGames

[Falcon1]

OK, I dont No what to get. The mag or the cocker. I heard things about the cocker.. (timeing) and I heard about the mag and lvl 10 and ULT. It just seem if i buy one of these guns im going to have to Miss around with somthing. Oh ya is the lvl 10 and ULT worth getting and is it hard to get that stuff to work?

Can you guys tell me whats up with these guns and which one should I get? :confused:

Thanks:D

[bokraham]

I just got rid of my 03 vert cocker and got a minimag. If I were you I would go with the mag. My cocker always leaked and had problems. BUt if you know how to do everything with a cocker then I would say go for one. otherwise get a mag. You see people that have mags for 5+ years, you rarely see someone with a cocker for that long.

[sslecyk03]

go with the rt ule, cockers are known to be a hassle to take care of. Lvl 10 is a piece of cake to put in and set up. It takes about 10 minutes max. After that i doubt u will even have to mess with it ever again.

[Falcon1]

Ya i can see that but every one is saying that the lvl 10 takes time to get right as well as the ULT. Is that hard to fix???

[Ginjiroku]

I faced the same problem, ask to shoot someones cocker at a field and if you see a mag ask to shoot it too. Get the one that you think is better to shoot. Cockers are great but you have to know alot about them to properly maintain them so if you want to get a cocker do your research.

[hobbesTZ]

There's quite a price differance there. 2k3 'cocker = $300 new, while the RT ULE = $420, and that's with a carbon fiber single trigger. And of course you can't use CO2 on the mag.

[Ov3rmind]

*RAAAAAAAAAAAWWWRRR* I'm the Personal Preference Monster! *RRRAAAAAAAWWWR*

[gibby]

Well, any marker can have the tendancy to leak air somewhere. With the level 10, this can definitely be true. But from what I gather, you're going to tinker with it anyway regardless of what you get. I've never installed a ULT but I have a level 10. Although intimidating at first with all those parts, it's relatively easy once you install it for the first time. If you leak down the valve, go with a lower carrier. Just do research on the symptoms and the fix for them and you should be fine. IMO, it's much easier to fix a level 10 leak rather than timing a cocker.

However, like someone said, go out and shoot both and see which one feels best in your hands. Either or, they are both great. But like someone else mentioned, the ULE RT will only work with HPA. If you're on a budget, go for the cocker(isn't that an irony?!)...but if not, it's up to you to decide which one you prefer best.

[ghed]

Ya i can see that but every one is saying that the lvl 10 takes time to get right as well as the ULT. Is that hard to fix???

If you're thinking about getting the RT-ULE deal then your ULT/LX comes ready out of the box. Mine did and I havent had to mess w/ it one bit.

As for cocker vs RT. The main reason I went RT over 2k3 cocker is b/c I hate tinkering and I prefered the weight/size of the RT over a bulky cocker. And price the RT pretty much completely upgraded where as my brother has put ~$200 into his 2k3 so the prices of both comes out about even. And after using both my brother and I agreed that accuracy, RoF, noise-lvl was pretty much the same.
So imo the choice is pretty much if you prefer a smaller gun that requires little to no tinkering go for the RT. If you like to tinker and upgrade then go w/ the cocker.

[Falcon1]

I feel the same way I dont want to spend $420 on a gun that I have to fix.

[chuey]

I've owned two mags with level 10 bolts on them now... The second one I installed and tuned in literally 6 minutes. Once you understanding the few parts to it and keep it lubed your good to go, plus you will never really ever have a paint chopping day no matter how hard you get onthe trigger. On a cocker if your not as mindful you will chop paint, or spend a lot of moolah on upgrades to get it super low pressure. If as a primary I would get a bushie or a mag for the price ranges of these markers respectively. And bushies have crappy *** resale so you can get a sweet bushie or BKO for easily under $350. An RT pro will go for about 350 easily. I have in one form or another all three of these. And my auto cocking marker isn't working right now...its cool as shi* but it aint working right now... needs tinkering... whereas my RT automag...never ever goes down...period... and my bushie...hardly ever goes down...a quick lube takes care of that though...its pretty easy to maintain all in all...

[cphilip]

All the down sides..Learning.. tuning... aside.... the RT pro will shoot and recharge faster. And I believe they are easier to learn. Sure it needs HP air. But heck most Cocker people will tell you they realy do need it too. If they are honest about it. Even they shoot BETTER with High Pressure air. Don't let anyone fool you on that fact. HP air is better in ANY marker. Heck even a spyder for that matter! And we here to help you if you need set up help. We can fix em! And do it over the net. Not many can do that...Shoot em both and then decide. You make up your own mind.

However I can tell you that within 6 months your gonna sink 400 more bucks into that stock cocker upgrading stuff. And I would recomend you just bite the bullet now and buy the most RT pro you can for like 500 and never look back.

[soccer4minimags]

cocker

[chuey]

Hew HPR Reg, Palmer Rock LPR, sonic valve, New cocking rod, free flow bolt, front block pneumatics, $50 bucks for timing if you're an idiot like me...yup 400 bucks is about right..cockers are a pain in a** to chrono too i gotta take out the cocking rod adjust, put cocking rod back in properly, shoot over the chrono, damn 265fps...take out the cocking rod...do it all over again...

the back block goes in and out however on mine...coolest looking thing in the world watching it do that, lol...

[tyrion2323]

Falcon1,

Well - it's a difficult decision, for sure! I would take a mag over a cocker if they were priced equally. There are a lot of reasons to do this (1) personal style (2) shooting something "different" (3) reliability and ease of use (4) higher attainable ROF.

My recommendation would be the following setup:
Slugg Body and Rail (milled by Nicad into Dallara)
xValve
Intelliframe or Y-Frame
Foregrip
Empire 4-piece barrel set

The ULT is a strange decision. It will lower the trigger pull immensely, which is nice, but takes a longer period of time to master when it comes to mechanical functioning. The L10 isn't hard to figure out at all - it's pretty simple. When you combine the ULT and the L10, that multiplies the problems because if one goes down, you need to check ALL of the factors in both. However, the ULT is going to be crucial in the next stage of 3rd Party mag-owners, what with Logic and Hostage's vert E-Frames coming out.

That's my story, and I'm sticking to it. That is, unless someone offers me lots of money. Then, I'll stick to whatever story they tell me to. Kinda like Dynasty! (Ooh...snap!)

Jacob

[Evil1]

I've owned cockers, the last one being a 2k2 and it shot awesome after I spent alot of money on it. The cocker shot good but was not that fast. I traded it to get my RT Pro last year and was amazed at how fast it was and how well it shot right out of the box.

[Carbon]

ULTs should not be in the hands of 1st time mag owners. If they are, be sure you are mechanically inclined, and research the product first.

If ya wanna tinker, get the cocker. If ya want no tinker, get the Mag.

Forget the ULT, as if having an I frame isnt steak enough.

Dont wory about the LX, it takes less than 10 min to install,plus they should come outta the factory relatively pre-tuned.

In anycase, try to shoot both before ya buy one, better yet try to play with one in game, or a whole day.

[breg]

My personal prejudices tell me to tell you to get the RT/Pro. Though as everyone has said, both have good points and bad point.

My RT/Pro went sout on me once, I got really mad and used some choice swear words at it for about 7 minutes and then it worked. It's the truth.

Cockers are nice because you can trick them out like alomst no other.

Honestly, I shoot a RT/Pro with a LX bolt kit and intelliframe and that is about it. I use the older RT/Pro valve and the older stainlees steel power feed body. The main complaint is that the wings on the rail (the central piece of hardware that everything bolts onto) has wings on the end of it that hamper placement of my hose fittings.

In the end, I have a Mag, but also want a Cocker. I just want a, for lack of a better term, "project" gun that I can tinker and sink unreal amounts of money into when I am without a girl friend... I like to tinker with things.

But as most other folks have told you: Try both out and see which you like better. Talk to folks who have one of them and ask them how they like them. Find out how they work, what goes wrong, how they fixed them, and how easy or hard it was to do so. Then buy which ever one you like better.

[Falcon1]

WELL thanks guys I can see now, what I need to do. I think im going to get RT because i have a 68Automag and I just wont get the ULT. I will get that later. When I know how to fix it...

[Falcon1]

Oh YA :D If i buy the ULT with the RT in it will it work or will i have to fix it later?

[AzrealDarkmoonZ]

Having owned both, I have found that it is generally the feel fo the trigger that differentiates the two markers. Honestly, a cocker is a relatively simple machine once broken down to it's simple funtions.I can generally explain it quicker than an RT simply because I can show the people exactly whats going on, the RT requires a diagram.

To me nothing compares the silken smoothness of a well done slider trigger, of course sliders were my bread and butter a few years back and I swore by them. Then I got caught up in the hinges used them for a while and am now rebulding my slider. Somewhere between there I took a 6 mos hiatus on a MicroRT and after that used a classic for a while. To me the Micro was bueaty in motion, it was simple to operate, the LVL10 worked fine, occasionally when aired up it would sputter a few times then seat and the fun would begin. Oiled it once a month and it worked fine, never once giving me any serious problems. But neither did my cocker once I had it timed and loctited.

If you do decide on the cocker feel free to drop by www.air-powered.com and say hello <stopping insert of shameless plug>

Az

[AzrealDarkmoonZ]

I suppose I could give a better comparison between the two models.

The cocker will give better efficiency and has the ability to run off CO2. That being said hopefully you have a friend knowledgable in cockers because there is a slight learning curve if you fiddle with it. Triggers is all about preference, the WGP trigger can be tuned down a lot from stock, and the RT trigger as its own unique feel that is for the most part not adjustable, unless you have an adj air tank or play with the on/off or sear. In the category of price I will declare the cocker cheaper on the basis that the RT really needs some upgrades to bring out the best of it's potential.

Accuracy is all about what you believe...

Az

[Falcon1]

I still dont know anything about the ULT. Is it hard to fix. Oh ya does the factory send you everything working or will I need to fix the ULT later or NOt??

[cphilip]

the ULT is pretty much a slap in. Its a simple install. Its like taking out your On Off and putting another in there. The tuning is more often to get the trigger feel you want or the reactivity you want. But its a simple thing..

[AcemanPB]

Originally posted by Ov3rmind
*RAAAAAAAAAAAWWWRRR* I'm the Personal Preference Monster! *RRRAAAAAAAWWWR*

lol!


Well if it were my decision I'd go with the mag.

Out of the box it's faster (in my hands), won't chop, probably lighter, smaller, and is more reliable. The only thing I'd say the Cocker has over the mag is gas milage.

[Ov3rmind]

Originally posted by AzrealDarkmoonZ
To me nothing compares the silken smoothness of a well done slider trigger
I'll have to agree. Even after getting a Viking, I still sometimes lust for a Mini Freeflow with a slider.

[Fixion]

Originally posted by AzrealDarkmoonZ
To me nothing compares the silken smoothness of a well done slider trigger...

I know the feeling :).