Very interesting Patent Question...

[cledford]

Is it possible for someone to patent an idea for an upgrade for someone else's patented product if there is no prior art for the new upgrade?

Say for example that the old Sheridan valve was patented. If someone came up with something cool, that used the valve in a totally different way, and the person who had patented the valve (or anyone else) had no prior art for the new device, could the 3rd party inventor patent the upgrade? Let me give a second example to be clear. Say SP had patented the ported barrel. If someone came up with a device that through "dropping it in" converted the barrel into a lawn sprinkler - and SP had no prior art (or anyone else) that such a product existed, could I patent the "Smart Part barrel to sprinkler" converter? Said converter wouldn't work without the (hypothetically) already patented SP barrel, but then again the barrel could never do anything other then shoot paintballs without the conversion. Keep in mind I'm talking about a single drop in part that totally changes and expands the functionality of an existing product - I'm not talking about using the already patented product as an element of a new patented device. A final example might be Doc's barrel thread converter. Say Smart Parts (they patent everything, right :) ) had patented threaded paintball barrels, could Doc (in this hypothetical situation) patent a converter that attaches a threaded barrel to a pinch barrel marker like the old Tippmanns? These examples are all made up to get my point across - I'm thinking of something entirely different.

Thanks for any input!

-Calvin

[adam shannon]

i might be wrong....but isnt part of any patent any unique dimensions such as threads in the case of a barrel. unless its an off the shelf type standard measurement such as with allen keys. but wouldnt a patent cover unique intrinsic measurements and interface dimensions used in the design???

[AGD]

Yes its possible. Although, just because you have a patent that does not give you the right to produce the product since it could still infringe on the prior patent.

You patent the wheel, John Doe patents the chrome mag wheel. John can't produce it without infringing on you and you can't make a mag rim.

AGD

[Jonesie]

So based on your explination, Tom, if Calvin patents this Barrel > Sprinkler converter, he's legally covered if he buys the barrels needed to complete/market/sell his product from Smart Parts?

Like your example, if John Doe buys the wheels from Calvin, and the chromes them, that'd be legal?

Thanks, just looking for some clarification.

Dave

[AGD]

Well that would be up to the original patent holder. Technically if you are infringing on anothers patent you do not have the right to produce or sell the product. In my "non-legal" opinion you might have the right to own it since you bought the orginal product but you would not have the right to modify it into something to sell as new (might be able to sell it used). Its a tricky situation.

AGD

[Jonesie]

But you could pay a "License" fee to the patent hold, I assume?

[Muzikman]

You can patent upgrades to a product that already exists. In your SP sprinkler idead, as long as you made your adaptor and sold just that adapter you would be fine. Someone would have to buy your adapter and then run out and buy the barrel.

[shartley]

Originally posted by AGD
Well that would be up to the original patent holder. Technically if you are infringing on anothers patent you do not have the right to produce or sell the product. In my "non-legal" opinion you might have the right to own it since you bought the orginal product but you would not have the right to modify it into something to sell as new (might be able to sell it used). Its a tricky situation.

AGD
I don’t think this is correct. But then again I am not a patent lawyer.

I think the real issue is one of whether the original owner has been compensated for his/her work… and that would only NOT happen in this situation if you didn’t buy it first from him/her and then modified it, but went out and made it from scratch… bypassing the original owner all together. That is unless you paid royalties for each product sold that contained the patented item.

I don’t think the new VS used argument would hold up though. Because if that was the case, everyone would just sell everything as “used”, and get around any right infringement issues.

Also, how would this affect people who make customized products? The paintball world is filled with them…. are they selling products illegally if they purchase someone else’s patented item and modify it and re-sell it as their marker… although clearly a modification of an existing product not manufactured by themselves? I think there is a huge difference between paying for and modifying an existing product (or patented idea) and then re-selling it, and simply copying it while bypassing the original owner and selling it. It is a matter of fair compensation.

[cledford]

Originally posted by Muzikman
You can patent upgrades to a product that already exists. In your SP sprinkler idead, as long as you made your adaptor and sold just that adapter you would be fine. Someone would have to buy your adapter and then run out and buy the barrel.

This is along the line of what I was thinking - a completely independent product. It of course wouldn't provide the functionality without the patented product, but in and of it's self would consist of any parts from the original. The barrel adapter was the clearest example I gave.

-Calvin

[shartley]

Originally posted by cledford


This is along the line of what I was thinking - a completely independent product. It of course wouldn't provide the functionality without the patented product, but in and of it's self would consist of any parts from the original. The barrel adapter was the clearest example I gave.

-Calvin
I would think this would be just fine.

[cledford]

OK, so does anyone know if an actual part is required - or can you patent a drawing?

-Calvin

[shartley]

Originally posted by cledford
OK, so does anyone know if an actual part is required - or can you patent a drawing?

-Calvin
Since “ideas” can be patented, I am sure just a drawing will do. The patent office does not keep an actual working model of everything they approve a patent for…. Can you imagine the space needed for that? ;)

I am sure all this information is on the USPTO site.

[shartley]

Quick links!

The USPTO site
http://www.uspto.gov/

Good FAQ page at the USPTO
http://www.uspto.gov/main/faq/

Good how to page at the USPTO
http://www.uspto.gov/main/howdoi.htm