Newer Software??? 4.0???

[purplemag]

Ok, got my gun back from AGD 2 days ago with 3.2 ...now there is talk on the forum about a new upgrade to Miscues version (AGD V4.0). Is this software going to be a mindblowing change over 3.2?
If so, any chance for those of us who just got the 3.2 to get some sort of free shipping or something? I even asked the factory before sending in and they said 3.2 would be the newest for a while...but I don't know now.

[Halliday]

I'm interested too. Anyone know something?

[Kevmaster]

i think the whole world wants to know, but we'll prolly have to wait till the so-cal/nor-cal'ers all get back

[BajaBoy]

Originally posted by purplemag
Ok, got my gun back from AGD 2 days ago with 3.2 ...now there is talk on the forum about a new upgrade to Miscues version (AGD V4.0). Is this software going to be a mindblowing change over 3.2?
If so, any chance for those of us who just got the 3.2 to get some sort of free shipping or something? I even asked the factory before sending in and they said 3.2 would be the newest for a while...but I don't know now.


why would there be free shipping? it was your choise to update to 3.2, and it would be Your choise to update to something even newer

[-Tab]

Originally posted by BajaBoy



why would there be free shipping? it was your choise to update to 3.2, and it would be Your choise to update to something even newer

because he had asked the factory before shipping if there was gonna be newer software. i kinda doubt that they will pay for shipping, but wouldn't hurt to ask.

[hAppy]

tough luck thats all

suck it up
my software is 2.51 w/ the brains of 3.2, 20bps w/ buffering

hehehe

[FedEx]

I attended the Norcal/Socal event and they where testing the 4.0 it is still beta from what I was told when I left saturday they said the problem was they could not get the gun to keep up with the software at 26bps but you can tune it down to 20 and it was fine and I have to say that they where really ripping.

[purplemag]

yeah it would not have been that big of a deal, except for the fact I asked them beforehand and they said there was absolutely nothing new in the newar future. And the 20 bucks shipping sucks because it also costs that much to send it in to the factory, so 40 really!!!

[RRfireblade]

Don't sweat it. They both have buffering so no speed increase,just extra bells and whistles.I'm not going to go out of my way to upgrade.I don't need a ROF counter or a "nightrider" mode.;)

[LittlePaintballBoy]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA should have gone to AOCA....

[thecavemankevin]

purplemag:
i am not sure where in VA you are, but i just took the trip up to RobAGD up at pev's in fairfax one saturday...sure it took about four hours out of my day and driving through DC traffic sure wasn't any fun, but i got the 3.2 for free.

you might want to just take a drive up there once 4.0 has been released. or you can give him a call and see about shipping it up there...probably will be cheaper

[joshweinerhead]

lets just say ... 4.0 blows anything and if everything outta the water ... i <3 dayspring's xmag

[Miscue]

Originally posted by purplemag
Is this software going to be a mindblowing change over 3.2?


Yes.

AGD 4.00 is in beta. ETA on the final version is unknown at the moment.

[Bulldog]

I've got 4.0. Just got it at the Norcal vs Socal meet. It's impressive. Someone was doing some taping at the meet, so you should see some video shortly.

ps: Thanks Miscue for the upgrade and for answering all my dumb questions.

[sps16]

Woohoo, i have 4.0 nahnahnahnahnah nah nah!

[Miscue]

Originally posted by Bulldog


ps: Thanks Miscue for the upgrade and for answering all my dumb questions.

No problem! Glad that everyone seems to like it.

[logamus]

what is the knight rider mode? when you pull the pin does it say "hello michael"?

EDIT: we must have this for AO Dallas as i cannot tolerate some californian punks having better stuff. ;)

[gibby]

YUP! Thanks again Miscue! It was great meeting you as well as the other moderators from the site. The other feature I like about the 4.0 is the ability to shut off the solenoid while the board is still powered up. It allows you to practice walking the trigger without wearing down the solenoid and draining out the battery, this also gives you the max bps. It'll give me something to do while watching tv. :)

[Miscue]

Originally posted by logamus
what is the knight rider mode? when you pull the pin does it say "hello michael"?


It's a trigger testing mode. It provides visual representation of gun firing. This is useful for tuning trigger, and seeing what it's doing when you disable the solenoid. (Holding menu button and pushing bottom button toggles solenoid)

Also, it looks cool. :D

http://www.automags.org/~Miscue/KRider.wmv

Oh yeah... Gunga and CreativeMayhem prefer to call it Cylon mode.

[RRfireblade]

Hey Miscue,

Are there any performance benefits to 4.x or just the "extra" goodies.

Jay.

[Miscue]

Yes... it will be very worthwhile to jump to 4.0... regardless of the extra goodies.

We were outshooting tanks with it. A crappy/sub-standard preset doesn't hang at 20+ bps.

[RRfireblade]

Can you tell us what they are? Pleeeezzzzzze?

:D

[LittlePaintballBoy]

RRFire, I am not sure of all the things on 3.2, but I know a littlebit about 4.0. It has debounce and speed programmed up to 26, and the debounce can be locked and unaccesible by putting in or taking out a jumper in the board. It also has that nifty little knight rider mode which is very cool to watch:p And it has another little mod that actually counts the shots as you pull the trigger.:)

[joshweinerhead]

performance increases by 50x
trust me .. ive seen it first hand

[Miscue]

Originally posted by RRfireblade
Can you tell us what they are? Pleeeezzzzzze?

:D

The features? I have them in my Q1.1 thread. That's what AGD 4.00 is for the most part, a completely rewritten Q1.1 that works a lot better. My first crack at it, I had only intuition and not experience as far as how to go about it. AGD 4.00 took care of Q1.1's shortcomings, I went about it much smarter with the knowledge I gained from the first software.

[Dayspring]

Neither does a Y-Board Eggo. :D

I think you are going to have to put a "Halo-B" only sticker on this software.


Originally posted by Miscue
Yes... it will be very worthwhile to jump to 4.0... regardless of the extra goodies.

We were outshooting tanks with it. A crappy/sub-standard preset doesn't hang at 20+ bps.

[Z-man]

I think we should be careful what we say about 4.0 as it's not yet ready. Having witnessed it and had my board flashed the best analogy I can say is that I can shoot a 4.0 Mag faster than a Trix right out of the box. I also may have some footage ot Tom doing somthing like 26bps and holding it at that rate of fire. Perhaps later when its cleared by AGD (PM me is I need to shut up).

[RRfireblade]

that's what I'm saying. I'm aware of your Q software.

My question is if both 3.2 and 4.0 have shot buffering and adjustable bounce settings,why will 4.0 be faster.Just interested in why,that's all.

<B>Whoops, I edited your post instead of quoted... my post moved to bottom</B> -Miscue

[Miscue]

Originally posted by Dayspring
Neither does a Y-Board Eggo. :D




Yes, we were constantly outshooting both an Eggo and a Halo B. We didn't get to try it out on a warp.

[PissedGodzilla]

I saw Dayspring's xmag going berzerk today with the new 4.0

It was quite amazing.... I've never seen a marker fly like that before.

[Blennidae]

First I'd like to thank Miscue for flashing guns at the CA AO day.

Now I don't know if its a "50x" improvement, but if someone got footage of USAF-Flyboys X mag, I think E/X mag owners are going to be pleasantly surprised. Owners of other e-guns are not going to be as happy.:D

Besides the personalized scrolling messages are just plain cool.

P.S. No issues so far for me Miscue, however my battery did die early on Sunday, so I didn't get a chance to really test much, sorry.

[joshweinerhead]

Originally posted by PissedGodzilla
I saw Dayspring's xmag going berzerk today with the new 4.0



yes .. day was using who's paint? WEINERHEADS PAINT!!!!!!!!!!!

[RRfireblade]

Originally posted by Z-man
I also may have some footage ot Tom doing somthing like 26bps and holding it at that rate of fire.

Well since we all know your not pulling that fast,I guess an illegal bounce setting is one of the features.;)

Besides that and a higher cap, anything else based on realistic performance gains?

I'm begining to smell the Hype machine getting warmed up,please say it aint so.

[Miscue]

Originally posted by RRfireblade
that's what I'm saying. I'm aware of your Q software.

My question is if both 3.2 and 4.0 have shot buffering and adjustable bounce settings,why will 4.0 be faster.Just interested in why,that's all.


Whoopsie. I edited your thread instead of hitting the quote button.

There are several things involved, but I'll try to summarize it. Out of all 3, 4.0 is the most efficiently, and IMO, intelligently written. 3.2 is very large for having limited features. If I remember, it was over 900 or so instructions. 4.00 with all of its features is roughly 10% bigger than 3.2. If I removed all the extra features 4.00 has and made it similar to 3.2, I estimate it would be 20-30% smaller roughly... the code is WAY tighter. Considering this, it does a much better, cleaner job of doing what it takes to fire a marker. Q1.1 was pretty good, but it was dropping shots at high speeds. SkyboySurfer (Las Vegas native) demonstrated the problem to me with Q1.1, and sure enough it was doing that on every marker if shot fast enough... very disappointing. Q1.1 IMO was better than 3.2, but it still sucked because I didn't write is as smart as I could have.

But, this complete revision seems to be on the mark... everything was done right, and how it should have been... and is working much better than the older software.

[jayel579]

so what if you send your gun for the softare upgrade now ? what version will you get? i still have 1.37 i think, i wanted to get the new 3.2, but if the 4.0 is top of the line, i would want that.

[Army]

Just make sure the program designer, and fellow moderator conspiricist, do not maliciously get ahold of your marker and flash 4.0 to it.....

Instead of it reading "low battery", like all other guns will...mine now reads, "army sucks"

HAHAHAHAHahahhahaaaa :D Totally one of a kind custom! Thanks Miscue! Thanks Tato!

[Miscue]

We just did the beta test at AO-Cali. I don't think a 4.x will be available until an official release... ETA unknown. We have some issues to resolve, and more field testing to do.

[Miscue]

Originally posted by Army
Just make sure the program designer, and fellow moderator conspiricist, do not maliciously get ahold of your marker and flash 4.0 to it.....

Instead of it reading "low battery", like all other guns will...mine now reads, "army sucks"

HAHAHAHAHahahhahaaaa :D Totally one of a kind custom! Thanks Miscue! Thanks Tato!

We thought you'd like that... :p Yours is the only one that does that! Personalized!

[Muzikman]

Damn, I should have told work to suck it and went to CA. I might not have had a job, but I want to see 4.0:)

[Gunga]

Originally posted by Miscue
Oh yeah... Gunga and CreativeMayhem prefer to call it Cylon mode.

Damn right! Battlestar Galactica started in 1978. Knight Rider in '82. So Galactica came first!

Besides...Cylons are way cooler than KITT. :p And the E/X-Mag display is red, just like the Cylons. KITT's 'eye' was yellow. :p

[LeatherPants]

The 4.0 is friggin awsome. After Miscue flashe Fly Boi's X I got to rip on it. Wow.

I was also able to walk Miscue's marker to 25 bps the night before.....friggin crazy.

[pbzmag]

Originally posted by Army
Just make sure the program designer, and fellow moderator conspiricist, do not maliciously get ahold of your marker and flash 4.0 to it.....

Instead of it reading "low battery", like all other guns will...mine now reads, "army sucks"

HAHAHAHAHahahhahaaaa :D Totally one of a kind custom! Thanks Miscue! Thanks Tato!

MUST SEE PICS!!!

PS - Watch out Iraq, Army is on his way!!!!

[Miscue]

Originally posted by LeatherPants
The 4.0 is friggin awsome. After Miscue flashe Fly Boi's X I got to rip on it. Wow.

I was also able to walk Miscue's marker to 25 bps the night before.....friggin crazy.

We noticed that at those speeds, the solenoid stutters and can't hang. So currently recommend a setting of 20.

We're working on it...

[DiRTyBuNNy]

yeah...and can anyone get me a patch cable by 4.0's release so I can start flashing boards in the southwest region?

[spacedtedybear]

I was also able to walk Miscue's marker to 25 bps the night before.....friggin crazy.

I called and matched :p Of course my wrist was a little sore afterwards.

[Chojin Man]

What is bounce and debounce? Thats pretty sweet about the new software getting 25 BPS.:eek: I REALLY want an e-mag now!

[Lord_Whoopass]

hey Miscue if you need anymore beta testers of the 4.0 I would be willing to test for ya... ;) But anyways it sounds cool... I cant wait till its released... And you should have it say "RECHARGE ME" instead of "battery low"... Makes it seem more A.I.ish to me... :D

[FreakBaller12]

this sounds so crazy i am so excited to get it!
so will you be able to customize your software by special order or no?

[pito189]

I want that on my X-Mag now, and it's at AGD. I need to make some calls. :(

[coolcatpete]

My e-mag is geting sent in to AGD in a few days to get flashed, so will I just get 3.2 or 4.0
Pete

[BlackVCG]

Don't send a gun now if you want 4.00.

You're going to have to wait for awhile before the official release is made.

[coolcatpete]

Originally posted by BlackVCG
Don't send a gun now if you want 4.00.

You're going to have to wait for awhile before the official release is made.
The problem is I have to send it to AGD because my e-mag got stolen, and I just got it back, so I have to send it to AGD to ases(how do you spell that) the damage, and I might as well get it flashed while it is there. So I geuss I am just screwed.
Pete

[logamus]

well 3.2 is not really "getting screwed". prior to this weekend it was the best thing out there, and since 4.x has not been officially released it still is the best. you wont be disappointed with 3.2.

[hitech]

Originally posted by Miscue
Yes, we were constantly outshooting both an Eggo and a Halo B. We didn't get to try it out on a warp.

You should have said something! I can't shoot very fast, but someone could have tried mine. :D

[Miscue]

Well, we were concentrating on other things... the loader feeding rate was interesting but not our focus... Thanks anyway!

[RoadDawg]

Originally posted by Miscue
Yes... it will be very worthwhile to jump to 4.0... regardless of the extra goodies.

We were outshooting tanks with it. A crappy/sub-standard preset doesn't hang at 20+ bps.

But my flatline did a good job when my marker went full auto. :D Darn trigger rod was to far out. Wish that could of been on tape.

[Miscue]

Originally posted by RoadDawg


But my flatline did a good job when my marker went full auto. :D Darn trigger rod was to far out. Wish that could of been on tape.

Yeah, that was kinda cool. It was like a ghost pulling your trigger with it rocking back and forth with retro-bounce. :p

[hitech]

Originally posted by RoadDawg
But my flatline did a good job when my marker went full auto. :D Darn trigger rod was to far out. Wish that could of been on tape.

We have someone on tape. They start walking the trigger and when they let go it just kept going. Don't know if it was you as I didn't film it. Sound familiar?

[RoadDawg]

Mine was going full auto by holding down the trigger and it didn't skip a beat. Wasn't even trying to walk it. Just shoot it once and it went nuts. So I took it to Q and Tato and discovered that my trigger rod was adjusted a bit to far out. My emag is a all black warped ule emag and I was wearing a shiny red & black jersey with a guy running with a hatchet. So if that matches the description then it was me. If not, it wasn't me.

[Bulldog]

That happened to me, I waved to the camera while the gun was doing it's thing. I've corrected that little issue since. :D

[S.S bandit AL]

So, are they ever going to add that feature that someone mentioned earlier about rotating the warp whenever ace doesn't see a ball? I think that would be awesome. I was hoping that was going to be on 3.2, but I don't think it is.

[coolcatpete]

Originally posted by S.S bandit AL
So, are they ever going to add that feature that someone mentioned earlier about rotating the warp whenever ace doesn't see a ball? I think that would be awesome. I was hoping that was going to be on 3.2, but I don't think it is.
I did not here about that, but that is a good Idea.
Pete

[Miscue]

Originally posted by coolcatpete

I did not here about that, but that is a good Idea.
Pete

Yeah, I thought so too. 4.00 does that. You can also prime your warp by pushing the bottom button.

[thecavemankevin]

Originally posted by Miscue


Yeah, I thought so too. 4.00 does that. You can also prime your warp by pushing the bottom button.

yeah, but most paintballers only know how to pull a trigger and nothing else....so pushing a little white button takes way too much consentration :)

and you all should make the "low batt" warning say "feed me"

very cool miscue...hey you should send 4.00 to rob, that way us east coasters can beta test for you too....you know, in case it wont perform right in colder weather ;)

[RRfireblade]

So far it seems everyone posting their experiences is dealing with full runaway bounce,and loving it apparently. What's up with that? Are these the same people who's been trashing WAS and are now in love with WAS like attributes?

I'm assuming this won't be a problem on the official release.

[hitech]

Originally posted by RRfireblade
So far it seems everyone posting their experiences is dealing with full runaway bounce...

NO, THAT IS NOT THE CASE. I have not had ANY bounce problems.

[S.S bandit AL]

Yeah, I thought so too. 4.00 does that. You can also prime your warp by pushing the bottom button.

Is the 4.0 the first to auto prime the warp like that?


yeah, but most paintballers only know how to pull a trigger and nothing else....so pushing a little white button takes way too much consentration

BTW, (not to sound hostile or anything) yes I knew the warp can be primed with the little white button on the bottom, I'm not stooped! ;)

[Miscue]

The button I was refering to is the bottom grip button, not the white prime button on the warp.

I'm pretty sure this is the first one with auto-warp priming.

[Dayspring]

Nope. No problems here either.


Originally posted by RRfireblade
So far it seems everyone posting their experiences is dealing with full runaway bounce.

[USAF-Flyboy with a Mag]

two words... IT ROCKS! I can outshoot my halo now. Miscue..thanks again...hoped you enjoyed that sam adams I got you...even if it did take you 2 hours to drink it. :D

[Miscue]

Originally posted by USAF-Flyboy with a Mag
two words... IT ROCKS! I can outshoot my halo now. Miscue..thanks again...hoped you enjoyed that sam adams I got you...even if it did take you 2 hours to drink it. :D

No problem! Glad you like it. Be sure to reflash to the final version once released.

I never had a Sam Adams before, was good. I have to take it slow though. :p

[ZAust]

i too have 4.00, and i must say it rocks HARD.

[RoadDawg]

RRFireblade- My bounce issue was due to the trigger rod being extended too far out. Now that is fixed it flies with no bounce issues.

[jwren00]

I watched Tom testing the 4.0 a little bit. But the gun he was shooting just had a preset tank on it, so it was outshooting the tank and he was getting pissed, so then he went back and put a flatline on it.

It was fast as hell, probably the fastest I've ever seen ANY kind of gun shoot. And he was able to hold the fast speed for the entire hopper. It does have a lot of bounce built into it though, because he obviously wasn't pulling his finger that fast. Kind of reminded me of a viking with a WAS board and mega bounce on. Super cheater style speed if you know what I mean, sooooooo fast.

[Curly]

To all the disbelievers out there. This software is not like a WAS board. It is not a runaway software. People are getting the wrong impression. What miscue has done is create a much cleaner version of 3.2 with some added bonuses. Yes it is fast, but it is legal. We messed around with Skirt's emag and made sure that it was completely legal. With this completely legal trigger we still outshot the halo, it was amazing. I sat there for a few minutes trying to get the gun to double shoot. Please do not flame miscue or claim he is creating hype. This software is amazing.

[Rope a Dope]

So... Tom pulled the trigger 26 times in one second as you all say he did?

Well, damn.

[jwren00]

I'm not flaming, just stating the FACT that the gun shoots faster than you are pulling the trigger...

[MrWallen]

I think there may be a bit of an issue with the BPS counter, from what I saw. When messing around without gas, I could hit around 22 bps. Crazy, thought I. (and yes, I had plenty of time with the board, Miscue stayed in my freakin room!)

Well it seems, again from what I saw, that even though it read 22 bps and even if you pulled it 22 bps, you weren't actually firing 22 bps. But this was on my friend's emag, which was a little messed up, and low on air.

BTW, if anyone ever gets the chance, get someone's emag and get it flashed, then put a really embaressing message on the startup (or lowbat). Bwhahahahahaa!

Just ask ZAust what I'm talking about...!

[Miscue]

Originally posted by MrWallen
I think there may be a bit of an issue with the BPS counter, from what I saw. When messing around without gas, I could hit around 22 bps. Crazy, thought I. (and yes, I had plenty of time with the board, Miscue stayed in my freakin room!)

Well it seems, again from what I saw, that even though it read 22 bps and even if you pulled it 22 bps, you weren't actually firing 22 bps. But this was on my friend's emag, which was a little messed up, and low on air.

BTW, if anyone ever gets the chance, get someone's emag and get it flashed, then put a really embaressing message on the startup (or lowbat). Bwhahahahahaa!

Just ask ZAust what I'm talking about...!

It won't hang at 20bps without a good tank with sufficient air because the solenoid will not be properly reset. The BPS meter will be inaccurate if the marker does not shoot when it is told to by the board. The solenoid plunger stutters at 20+, we're looking into it. Suggest to keep at 20bps for now.

[MrWallen]

Originally posted by Miscue


It won't hang at 20bps without a good tank with sufficient air because the solenoid will not be properly reset. The BPS meter will be inaccurate if the marker does not shoot when it is told to by the board. The solenoid plunger stutters at 20+, we're looking into it. Suggest to keep at 20bps for now.

Yeah, I heard you and Tom talking about that (looking into it, that is). And it does stutter above 20 bps, so it actually shoots faster/more consistently at higher rates if you set RoF to 20.

[Evil1]

I saw in a post up top that the gun could not keep up w/ 26 bps. By that do they mean the actual gun or the tank is not keeping up? Not that I am overly concerned w/ raw speed, but is that only what the RT valve can do is 26 bps? I think I've seen one dry fired before way faster than 26bps. Also is this software really worth waiting for? I recently got the 3.2 recently and I like it. Also I'm thinking on buying a DM4 soon but want to actually shoot and play w/ one before purchasing one. Can this new software on the E/XMag be compared to shooting like the DM4 or is the DM4 just that sick and in a league of its own?


P.S.
I am not replacing my Emag w/ a DM4. I love my mag, always will, but after seeing the DM4 alot now it has begun to grow on me. Also it will be cool to have 3 awesome guns to choose from when I play.

[USAF-Flyboy with a Mag]

From what Tom told me at the meet, it's not that the valve can't sustain that rate, but the actual plunger on the emag is the issue due to its weight. It can't cycle that fast. One this is for certain, my gun is shooting plenty fast enough that it isn't a concern with me. I burned through a halo B in a matter of seconds. Also, some of the preset tanks just can't keep up with the gun when you are going full bore at it. Luckily my preset was the only one that we came across at the meet that could.

[Crime Dog]

I've been reading this thread for awhile now, wondering to myself, "Should I tell Tunaman to see if he can get the 4.0 for me?"

And I've decided to stick with the 3.2. Sounds like I won't have that many problems, and I should be able to shoot fast ENOUGH with it.

If you can't hit someone with 14 bps...you're stink at the game, and need to relearn.

I mean, come on guys, is hitting 26 bps really THAT important? Is it really going to help one's game that much?

I understand, 4.0 is "cleaner code". I don't have a problem with that. If that's the sole reason people were psyched about it, then hey, more power to ya.

But it seems people have this addiction to higher bps. Higher bps isn't the answer to your game. At least, I hope it's not. That doesn't make us better players. It just makes paint companies richer. ;)

This ISN'T a flame. Just the conclusion I've come to. Somethin' to chew on I guess.

Miscue, I mean NO offense to you for coming up with the software. If someone can come up with more efficient, better designed code, then MORE power to them! I'm sure your intent isn't solely a higher ROF. For that, I commend ya. You're just trying to improve on efficiency. Nothin' wrong with that in the least.

[PsychoBaller]

Heh, many peoples are still running older software.. its not about how fast you can shoot anymore, I think its rather about who has the newest, cleanest, bug free software...

I had my SFL flashed at NJAO3 day, 2.4 still, but runs just fine.

-baller

[darwin]

i cant wait to get my hands on this.. Is there any reference avail to the public for writing software for the chip in the e/x mag? What do you write it in? and can i get an xmag with a bash prompt ? :D

[homis]

A little off topic, but to the developer of this software (Miscue I believe), what language do you write this in?

/C++ & MFC developer myself

[CFD323]

Somebody said that most of the preset tanks there wouldn't keep up with the 4.0. So if you have an adjustable tank, do you dial up the incoming pressure to the gun higher so that the gun doesn't starve at high rates of fire ? Doesn't this make the gun less air efficient ?

Does this hold true for all high speed electro guns using preset tanks because I had checked a while back about using a preset tank with a NYX Matrix and was told it work fine.

[Mindflux]

Originally posted by homis
A little off topic, but to the developer of this software (Miscue I believe), what language do you write this in?

/C++ developer myself

It was written in assembly.

ASM baby!

[Dayspring]

In the tournament scene, it's all about who can shoot the fastest, and who can reach those high ROF #'s the easiest.

What Miscue has done has provided AGD a means to do that.


Originally posted by Crime Dog
I've been reading this thread for awhile now, wondering to myself, "Should I tell Tunaman to see if he can get the 4.0 for me?"

And I've decided to stick with the 3.2. Sounds like I won't have that many problems, and I should be able to shoot fast ENOUGH with it.

If you can't hit someone with 14 bps...you're stink at the game, and need to relearn.

I mean, come on guys, is hitting 26 bps really THAT important? Is it really going to help one's game that much?

I understand, 4.0 is "cleaner code". I don't have a problem with that. If that's the sole reason people were psyched about it, then hey, more power to ya.

But it seems people have this addiction to higher bps. Higher bps isn't the answer to your game. At least, I hope it's not. That doesn't make us better players. It just makes paint companies richer. ;)

This ISN'T a flame. Just the conclusion I've come to. Somethin' to chew on I guess.

Miscue, I mean NO offense to you for coming up with the software. If someone can come up with more efficient, better designed code, then MORE power to them! I'm sure your intent isn't solely a higher ROF. For that, I commend ya. You're just trying to improve on efficiency. Nothin' wrong with that in the least.

[Miscue]

Originally posted by homis
A little off topic, but to the developer of this software (Miscue I believe), what language do you write this in?

/C++ developer myself

Yup, like what was mentioned... all in assembly.

[Evil1]

When will this be available if it isn't already?

[felony]

yikes assembly.. :eek:

ive done c++ and am doing C right now, so PROPS to you!

anywho, if tom hit 26 bps, legally.. holy shiza. didnt think that was possible with the 1 pupll 1 shot deal, but hey what do i know.. obviously littl

dan

[RoadDawg]

This flash of right now is in a huge beta test mode. Basically we are the test subjects. Final version is still to be released. Til then good luck getting it.

[Miscue]

Originally posted by felony
yikes assembly.. :eek:

ive done c++ and am doing C right now, so PROPS to you!

anywho, if tom hit 26 bps, legally.. holy shiza. didnt think that was possible with the 1 pupll 1 shot deal, but hey what do i know.. obviously littl

dan

He wasn't hitting 26, more like 20. No marker was exceeding that to my knowledge... we'll be looking into that, as all of this is new to us.

[felony]

sounds good.. keep the info coming.. im loving it..


dan

[OfficerGoat]

We need to get one of these over a chrono that will do shots per second. I am sure one of the local gun shops has one.

[sps16]

the software is really fast, i can hit 20-24 on the bps counter.
Hey miscue, when my battery starts to get low, it starts missing shots on each pull and be able to sweet spot in on knight rider mode

[Miscue]

Originally posted by sps16
the software is really fast, i can hit 20-24 on the bps counter.
Hey miscue, when my battery starts to get low, it starts missing shots on each pull and be able to sweet spot in on knight rider mode

Ok, what this is... is:

When the battery is almost dead, the solenoid steals power from the HES and makes it turn off even if you have the trigger pulled. The solenoid is powered off, HES gets power again... and it behaves like its in runaway. A brown-out condition, basically.

This is normal... and all the software did this but you didn't know it. Your battery is too low to even get close to firing when this condition occurs. Charge your battery!

[sps16]

awww ok :D

[hitech]

No offence, but are you sure the ROF meter is accurate? I turned off the solenoid to insure I wasn’t getting any “bounce” and I was able to hit 20bps a few times and could “easily” and consistently hit 18bps raking the trigger. This is really only the second time I’ve tried raking the trigger. My trigger isn’t all that short or light. It’s hard to imagine that I am that fast. :D

BTW, I was also able to hit 7bps just pulling the trigger “normally” with my index finger. :D

[-=Squid=-]

miscue - why dont you develope WAS type boards for other markers? You could make a killing...

[Miscue]

Here's the deal on the accuracy:

If it says X bps, the board tried to fire at X bps. The thing is, the board does not know if your marker actually fired. If the mechanics are keeping up with the board, then it is accurate.

We've noticed that somewhere over 20bps, the plunger stutters and does not get a full stroke... misfiring. We're looking into this.

It should have no issue at 20bps though, to my knowledge... However, your gun needs to be well tuned. We had a marker that had the plunger length adjusted wrong, and it couldn't hang at all. Also, need a good tank. We had an 850psi preset that wasn't outputting 850 (pre-sets often do not output what they are rated to). And, the input pressure is used to kick the solenoid plunger back into place. Increasing input pressure will kick it back harder.

But once again, these issues are brand new to us (hence the beta test)... and we're working on better understanding what is going on with it.

So... hope that answers the question. Electronically it is is 100% accurate. The issue is whether the mechanics are doing what the electronics want it to.

<B>Edit: 99.x % accurate, because w/o an RTC and quartz crystal situation... the internal timers are not perfect, but close enough.</B>

[Miscue]

Originally posted by -=Squid=-
miscue - why dont you develope WAS type boards for other markers? You could make a killing...

Lack of interest. There are other projects I'd rather be working on. And I don't quite see how I could make a "killing."

[-=Squid=-]

Originally posted by Miscue


Lack of interest. There are other projects I'd rather be working on. And I don't quite see how I could make a "killing." Ok im sorry, I am completely wrong and will never direct a question to you again.

[RRfireblade]

Originally posted by Miscue
. Electronically it is is 100% accurate. The issue is whether the mechanics are doing what the electronics want it to.

I'm still a little skeptical that all of a sudden,everyones pulling 20+ bps when I've never seen anybody pull that fast ever,on any gun w/ a legal bounce setting.I kinda though 20+bps was hard to do.;)

[RoadDawg]

I've hit 20 once on mine and average 15 or so otherwise. Now that is holding it at a weird angle not "in game" style. I have a extremely light and pretty close trigger. I kinda feel it's like the timmy bps meter. Not always reliable but a good confidence booster.

[Z-man]

I was able to reach 24 bps once raking the trigger but most times I am set at 16-18 and 20 now and then (I must learn this walking thing better).

Mscue this thread is turning into the beta testing feedback page. If that is fine then I will start posting what I find as well but is there a different thread to post on? should we PM you? thanks

[JEDI]

Originally posted by Miscue


He wasn't hitting 26, more like 20. No marker was exceeding that to my knowledge... we'll be looking into that, as all of this is new to us.

I saw 26 this past sunday on 4.0. At least thats what the little counter said. :)

[RoadDawg]

Originally posted by JEDI


I saw 26 this past sunday on 4.0. At least thats what the little counter said. :)
Flyboy hit 27 before we left SLO on sunday. Then his battery died shortly after.

[Miscue]

Well, when your battery is almost dead... where it won't even shoot... the chip runs slower and it acts funky. There is no RTC, and the timing is based off of clock cycles... and you end up with longer seconds... more time to get in more shots. Doesn't do that when battery power isn't really low.

[Miscue]

Originally posted by Z-man
I was able to reach 24 bps once raking the trigger but most times I am set at 16-18 and 20 now and then (I must learn this walking thing better).

Mscue this thread is turning into the beta testing feedback page. If that is fine then I will start posting what I find as well but is there a different thread to post on? should we PM you? thanks

Everything that everyone has mentioned, we're aware of... although information is appreciated... particularly odd behavior. I 'think' I have what info I need from this initial version. I'm polishing it up right now, and will be focusing on these revisions as far as field testing goes.

[Duke of Lawnchair]

We had a marker that had the plunger length adjusted wrong, and it couldn't hang at all.

Miscue,

I believe that was my marker, it was the second marker you reprogrammed during the meet.

How do I go about remedying the plunger length?

Jim

[Miscue]

Originally posted by Duke of Lawnchair


Miscue,

I believe that was my marker, it was the second marker you reprogrammed during the meet.

How do I go about remedying the plunger length?

Jim

If that's the same gun, Tom got the calipers out and fixed it.

[Duke of Lawnchair]

Hmmmm, not my gun then...

[Miscue]

Ok well... make sure your plunger rod is at: 3.005"

[gibby]

Like Miscue stated, whenever I have the ROF setting above 20, I do see some unrealistic bps numbers. After setting it down to 20 bps, it seems to be a lot more accurate. I'm not that fast and can average around 15-17 bps. But that's only dry firing.

At the event, Tom and Miscue took a look at my set up and noticed that my trigger pull was way too long on my Emag. Of course, this is due because I haven't really had the time to tweak my trigger adjustments. So getting a good reading wouldn't have been possible unless it was tuned well. I've played around with my trigger this morning until I've gotten the pull to be shorter and not go in runaway mode. Once I find the time to go out and do some live tests, I'll be sure to post more.

But overall, just dry firing, I am able to sustain a good cycle rate without the hicups. Definitely much better than before. Only hicups that occurs is when my fingers gets too tired.

[SPY 1]

WOW this firmware is great from what I hear can´t wait till the final is released ;)

[Duke of Lawnchair]

Originally posted by Miscue
Ok well... make sure your plunger rod is at: 3.005"

Roger that.

[gibby]

Hrm...thinking about it. Someone with 4.0 should make a sound clip and post up the LED reading. Post it up so someone can analyze it. I would try to do it but I'm currently at work. :(

[RoadDawg]

I'd try but I'm getting ready to leave for work. :D

[deadeye9]

3.005 inches, as measured from where to where? I guess one end would be the bottom of the plunger. Would the other end be the round top of the pivot arm?

A picture with arrows would be helpful.

[Miscue]

Originally posted by deadeye9
3.005 inches, as measured from where to where? I guess one end would be the bottom of the plunger. Would the other end be the round top of the pivot arm?



Correct.

[deadeye9]

Like so?

[Miscue]

Yeah.

[purplemag]

I am so happy, this is my first ever thread where over 2000 people have read it!
I guess it shows there is a lot of interest in the new software!

[sps16]

Originally posted by purplemag
I am so happy, this is my first ever thread where over 2000 people have read it!
congratulations :rolleyes:

[Mickster]

Hi,

Im from the UK and was wondering how much it costs to get the new software as i currently only have 1.37.

Cheers

Mike

[gibby]

LOL!! Okay, who's been hitting the refresh button multiple times?:D

[Miscue]

Report of non-bug:

The EEPROM is only saved to when something has been changed, and the marker is sitting idle for 3 seconds. So if you turn off your gun too quickly, the last changes since the last idle period won't be recorded.

The reason I did it this way is because: The EEPROM saving process can create a delay... it disables the internal timer and interrupts because EEPROM writing cannot be interrupted - and from what I can tell the amount of time it takes is not finite... it can vary. I want the EEPROM to save as few times as possible, and only when it sits there doing nothing. You can see how this can screw up your ROF timing and Debounce timing because EEPROM writing in a sense... stops time temporarily.

I did not look at it 'really' closely, but I 'think' 3.2 updates the EEPROM very often, and I know for sure that doing this creates an unnatural delay and messes up the timing... and slows your marker down when firing... and it will drop shots regardless of shot buffering... because it gets stuck waiting for the EEPROM to finish rather than looking at the trigger.

[Duke of Lawnchair]

Flyboy and I played @ SC Village this monday. Someone that we played with brought their buddy to video tape us.

I'll see if I can get the video.

BTW, Flyboy was ripping on his x-mag. Enough to get one player on the opposite side of the field to become angry at him. I'm going to assume that 4.0 was a "little" too fast for his liking...

Jim

[Duke of Lawnchair]

Hehe...was it because of the Xmag or because of the way he looks?

To all of us who have actually seen Martin, I'd have to say the latter. BUT, Martin was wearing a mask soooo, in this case I would have to say the former!

Jim

[Duke of Lawnchair]

Originally posted by Miscue
Ok well... make sure your plunger rod is at: 3.005"

Miscue,

I just mic'd it.

Verdict:
3.015"

Jim

[RoadDawg]

Just thought I'd through this out. Not sure if this is software or other related but I'm getting serious multiple shots. I've set the debounce on multiple settings 1-5 and 10. Only time I didn't get much multi shots was when the ROF was around 10-15. Is this due to my trigger pull length? Just wondering. Also I love the bottom button primer for the warp. Something I probably wouldn't have found out til later.

[Miscue]

Sounds like retro-bounce... or something mechanical. I remember your marker as having really bad retro-bounce.

[RoadDawg]

Originally posted by Miscue
Sounds like retro-bounce... or something mechanical. I remember your marker as having really bad retro-bounce.
Ya that was mine. Tato adjusted my trigger rod way back to wear I can't use mechanical at all anymore. So the trigger rod isn't the cause. He did give me a different on/off pin so maybe that is what is causing it.

[Miscue]

Hurm, maybe you're having the solenoid wire backwards FA issue. Did you have 3.2 before?

[RoadDawg]

Nope I had 1.37. I'll mess around with it some more and then report.

[Miscue]

Ok, you probably need to reverse your wires. It runs away a bit with trigger held, correct? If so, swap wires.

[lamby]

Miscue,

on my trip to AGD this week I am going to pickup some sacrifical burst jumpers to create my data cable (darn those prototype cripers are expensive for the 1.25mm connectors). Would you be willing to email me the code so I could compile it and flash some local mags? I would promise to not release the code and would sign whatever you need for copyright purposes.

It sounds like you did an excellent job on the code. What did you use, c, c+, C++, C#, basic, or assy?

I will talk to AGD to see if we can beta test it for them on our markers ;) either may it would be nice for someone in Milwaukee to have flashing cababilitys :D

Thanks,

[Gadget]

Originally posted by Mickster
Hi,

Im from the UK and was wondering how much it costs to get the new software as i currently only have 1.37.

Cheers

Mike

Mike,

Give John + Jackie a ring at AGD-E and ask - John didn't charge for my upgrade from 1.37 to 3.0. If you're not within driving distance the shipping might make it expensive though.

I'd wait till v4 is officially released though, at the moment they'd flash it to 3.2.

[fcpchop]

ok i dont like reading the rest of the thread, i got to like the mid of 2nd page, so the big question on my mind is if i send in my gun will they put in 4.0?

[headcase]

Originally posted by fcpchop
ok i dont like reading the rest of the thread, i got to like the mid of 2nd page, so the big question on my mind is if i send in my gun will they put in 4.0?

Currently, NO, later, Probably.

4.0 is still in the testing stages, it has not yet been approved for wide release. It looks like it will eventualy be approved, but who really knows?

[BlackVCG]

Originally posted by Duke of Lawnchair


Miscue,

I just mic'd it.

Verdict:
3.015"

Jim

3.010" is the spec length from the top of the arm that the clevis for the plunger attaches to down to the tip of the plunger.

If it's too long, it will wear the sear prematurely and if it's too short it will hit the bottom of the on/off assembly and damage it.

[cphilip]

...but thats only two and a half pubic hairs too long right?


:D

[Gadget]

Depends how thick your pubic hair is ;)

[Miscue]

Originally posted by lamby
Miscue,

on my trip to AGD this week I am going to pickup some sacrifical burst jumpers to create my data cable (darn those prototype cripers are expensive for the 1.25mm connectors). Would you be willing to email me the code so I could compile it and flash some local mags? I would promise to not release the code and would sign whatever you need for copyright purposes.

It sounds like you did an excellent job on the code. What did you use, c, c+, C++, C#, basic, or assy?

I will talk to AGD to see if we can beta test it for them on our markers ;) either may it would be nice for someone in Milwaukee to have flashing cababilitys :D

Thanks,

Nobody will ever have the source code except me and Tom. Also, this is Tom's code and not mine... it is not mine to give. Once again, it was written in assembly.

The hex file to flash boards with, is a different story... and I don't know what the word is on that.

[Curly]

Well, we all know that the hick himself, BlackVCG is going to try and hack the gibson to steal the source code. :)

[Mickster]

Sounds good, have to post itme thinks, maybe im bein slow but when is it being released here?

Cheers

Mike

[hitech]

I am still skeptical of the ROF numbers I’m getting. Miscue, how do you determine the MAX ROF number again?

I’ve never considered myself fast. Normally I just pull the trigger with on finger. With 4.0 I have tried out of few techniques. Here is what I got:

1. Just pulling the trigger with one finger = 7 bps
2. Fanning = 10bps
3. Hitech’s odd walking technique = 10bps
4. Raking the center hump = 13 bps
5. Manike’s raking technique = 20bps once, normally 18-19bps

This is without air (my wife hates it when I shoot in the house ;) ). I turned the solenoid off to insure I wasn’t getting any solenoid/HES “bounce”.

With manike’s raking technique it wasn’t hard to consistently reach those numbers. If I can really fire paint with those numbers I’ll impress myself. ;)

BTW, it did not seem to matter if the ROF cap was set at 20 or 26. Personally that speaks volumes for the software. I think miscue did a great job, and I write software for a living. :D

[Curly]

Hitech: Those numbers seem perfectly good to me. I know that I can get at least 14 walking a timmy with no air and no bounce, so you walking 10 sounds fine to me.

[RoadDawg]

Ya hitech. I walk my emag which is set really light at around 14-17 max. I'm still unable to rake the trigger any higher then 10. Single finger pull is around 7 or 8. So your readings are pretty close to mine.

[hitech]

Originally posted by Curly
Hitech: Those numbers seem perfectly good to me. I know that I can get at least 14 walking a timmy with no air and no bounce, so you walking 10 sounds fine to me.

Yeah, all the numbers seem okay, except the last one, manike's raking technique. I find it hard to believe that I can reach those speeds. That's actually why I tried the other techniques. I wanted a reality check.

Roaddawg, thanks for the additional confirmation. Maybe I will be able to rake that fast. :eek: :D

[Miscue]

Originally posted by hitech
I am still skeptical of the ROF numbers I’m getting. Miscue, how do you determine the MAX ROF number again?

I’ve never considered myself fast. Normally I just pull the trigger with on finger. With 4.0 I have tried out of few techniques. Here is what I got:

1. Just pulling the trigger with one finger = 7 bps
2. Fanning = 10bps
3. Hitech’s odd walking technique = 10bps
4. Raking the center hump = 13 bps
5. Manike’s raking technique = 20bps once, normally 18-19bps

This is without air (my wife hates it when I shoot in the house ;) ). I turned the solenoid off to insure I wasn’t getting any solenoid/HES “bounce”.

With manike’s raking technique it wasn’t hard to consistently reach those numbers. If I can really fire paint with those numbers I’ll impress myself. ;)

BTW, it did not seem to matter if the ROF cap was set at 20 or 26. Personally that speaks volumes for the software. I think miscue did a great job, and I write software for a living. :D

Thanks for the compliment!

Yes, what it does is: Every time it fires, it increments a counter. Every second it resets that counter. The highest it achieves is saved as the MAX bps. The firing subroutine is linked with the bps increment... it cannot be incremented unless it attempted to fire. That's the keyword, "attempted."

That's the current project right now, getting attempted shots to mechanically fire.

[Gecko]

miscue
i'm trying to add a break beam eye system to my emag. Curious if your code would support that?
I'm hoping if i put a logic inverter inline between the break beam and the emag board it will work. As i understand it the reflective eye sends a high signal when a ball is detected and a a break beam system has a low signal when the ball is detected. Am i totally offbase?
thanks

[Miscue]

Logic high = ball in breech ready to fire. Logic low = no ball in breech.

I can probably invert the logic for you when you get to that point, so you won't need an extra part.

[logamus]

Originally posted by hitech

5. Manike’s raking technique = 20bps once, normally 18-19bps

i shall have him teach me this at the dallas meet. that sounds awesome as i am no god on the trigger.

[RoadDawg]

Well I haven't switched my wires but I adjusted my trigger farther out and put in stronger magnets and it still multi fires. I'll have to try switching the wires soon and report if it fixed it or not.

[hitech]

Originally posted by logamus
That sounds awesome as i am no god on the trigger.

Me either. ;) I've never been any good at any of the techniques. Look at my numbers. The only one I was any good at was manike's raking technique. Guess it was a benefit of sharing a room with him at AO SE Day II. :D

[gibby]

Originally posted by RoadDawg
Well I haven't switched my wires but I adjusted my trigger farther out and put in stronger magnets and it still multi fires. I'll have to try switching the wires soon and report if it fixed it or not.
I forgot who told me, but I heard just twisting the two wires would help solve this problem? So just take out the solenoid, give it a twist and install it back into the trigger frame. See if that works. I haven't had any problems with it yet...we'll see.

I've also tweaked my trigger some so it's much shorter and it's so much easier to walk. My average was around the 15-17 bps. Great stuff!

[lamby]

Miscue,

Thanks for the information. I wish there was a way to get the source file so people could modify it is they would like, but the hex file would be fine too. If there anyway that the breakdown of the hex would be released so we could modify our boot screen via a program like winhex then flash it back with gcc? I dont want to program the chip as I know nothing about assy, and very little about any other programming language (I was a basic guru back in the c-64 days though <grin>) But it would be nice to enter your name ect to the led screen on bootup.

[Miscue]

Originally posted by lamby
Miscue,

Thanks for the information. I wish there was a way to get the source file so people could modify it is they would like, but the hex file would be fine too. If there anyway that the breakdown of the hex would be released so we could modify our boot screen via a program like winhex then flash it back with gcc?

We'll have a better way than that to do it. :p

[DiRTyBuNNy]

yeah...how about someone actually making legitimate patch cables so I can start flashing people once 4.0 is released officially (or whatever version of the Q-Code becomes the first released AGD software version)?

[purplemag]

I am curious Miscue...you said 4.0 was Tom's code and not yours? Did you write it and then sell the rights of it to AGD? Who writes/wrote the other E-mag codes(1.37,3.2)? Just wondering!

[Miscue]

Originally posted by purplemag
I am curious Miscue...you said 4.0 was Tom's code and not yours? Did you write it and then sell the rights of it to AGD? Who writes/wrote the other E-mag codes(1.37,3.2)? Just wondering!

I think some guys from England wrote it, not sure exactly. People John Sosta knows, I believe.

I don't want to be liable for software that I am not making any profit off of... considering that this thing helps control 200mph projectiles. So, if it becomes AGD's instead of mine... I don't have to worry about that.

I didn't so much sell it, as I did gave it to AGD. I originally wrote it on my own, without anyone asking me to do so. My chief concern was improving upon the E/XMag and making this available to everyone. But Tom's a fair guy, and I'll be taken care of with gear or something, which is more than I expected.

But my real reward is the accomplishment of completing a project of this nature, a first for me. It gives me confidence for projects I have in mind that are 10-100+ times bigger. When I first had the idea... I thought... man, that's gonna take a long time... and I wasn't sure if I could produce the results I was aiming for because it's a very small chip with only room for 1K of instructions. But I figured I won't know until I try, and now I've answered those questions.

I have considered getting some custom PCBs made, and use a nicer chip... maybe a PIC Micro with a bootloader. I know that I could make boards that are among the best out there, if I chose to. I dunno, we'll see what happens this year.

[Tobe2be]

its all miscues plot to make money... think about it if i get 4.0 i will shoot 26 bps meaning i will shoot more paint. i bet Q got some cash invested in paintball manufacturing. its all his evil scheme

[Miscue]

Originally posted by Tobe2be
its all miscues plot to make many... think about it if i get 4.0 i will shoot 26 bps meaning i will shoot more paint. i bet Q got some cash invested in paintball manufacturing. its all his evil scheme

Nah, I just want vids of people getting lit up good with the new software. :) I'd love that. Hehehe.

[Z-man]

You know, for such a quiet, unassuming guy in person you are quite devious!

[Dayspring]

This weekend at Battlezone or at TeXball. Take your pick. :D


Originally posted by Miscue


Nah, I just want vids of people getting lit up good with the new software. :) I'd love that. Hehehe.

[Miscue]

Originally posted by Z-man
You know, for such a quiet, unassuming guy in person you are quite devious!

That makes me perfect for an evil villain, doesn't it. :) Perception vs. reality... hehehe.

[Miscue]

Originally posted by Dayspring
This weekend at Battlezone or at TeXball. Take your pick. :D



Haha. You know, I have a feeling that AO days are going to be raw firepower displays... it's gonna be nasty!

[Digits]

so is this kinda like WAS where it helps speed you up, or is it legal?

[RoadDawg]

It's legal. It has the debounce settings and lock. Higher bps cap and a few other differences.

[SPLASH1]

At this time I have 3.2 and nobody here can believe I am shooting a mag as fast as I am. I can not wait to get 4.0. My mag is old and before I bought it sat on a shelf for a long time. I just hope it will keep up with the software. I am already going to get an adjustable tank so I will be ready when it come out. Any chance it will be ready for AO TEX?

[RoadDawg]

Well if your gun took 3.2 I'm pretty sure it'd take 4.0 no problem. Mine is an older Emag as well. In fact the valve # is less then 500.

[Z-man]

Miscue you are too popular. Your PM box is full, probly due to everyone begging for 4.0...

[athomas]

I wouldn't mind getting a copy of the hex code. I can make a serial cable easy enough. Then I could flash my board without having to send it across the border. Its a real hassle for taxes at the border for us Canucks.

[Gadget]

I know that I could make boards that are among the best out there, if I chose to. I dunno, we'll see what happens this year.

I vote we kidnap Miscue and lock him in a room with a soldering iron until he makes lovely toys for us all! Mwoohahaha! ;)

[Jack & Coke]

Hi Miscue,

Excellent work brah!:cool:http://www.automags.org/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif

Quick question, once a chip has been programmed (assembly code), can it ever be de-coded and read (source)?

[athomas]

The AVR itself can be locked. If the AVR is locked it cannot be read. You can reprogram it, but it involves completely erasing the prior program.

[FallNAngel]

Originally posted by athomas
You can reprogram it, but it involves completely erasing the prior program.

As opposed to what, adding onto it?

ALso, I suppose this answers my question of what chip is being used (AVR), right?

[Tunaman]

Originally posted by Gadget


I vote we kidnap Miscue and lock him in a room with a soldering iron until he makes lovely toys for us all! Mwoohahaha! ;) I second that! ;)

[Crime Dog]

So Tunaman...do YOU have 4.0 yet? ;)

P.S. You have email from me. :)

[athomas]

Originally posted by FallNAngel


As opposed to what, adding onto it?



As opposed to reading the existing program, modifying it, and then loading it back into the AVR. Sorry if I wasn't more clear on this.

[USAF-Flyboy with a Mag]

Originally posted by Gadget


I vote we kidnap Miscue and lock him in a room with a soldering iron until he makes lovely toys for us all! Mwoohahaha! ;)

Why kidnapp him when he already makes us great toys...all you have to do is buy the guy a sam adams =)

[Curly]

You have probably posted that picture at least 10 times by now. Stop whoring it. ;)

[Carbon]

Miscue, i suggest the return of the "TRIGG OFF" function 3.2 had, for easy trigger activation/adjustment and practice.

[USAF-Flyboy with a Mag]

Actually that pic has been posted twice. That one is from my cam...slightly diff then the other ones =)

[Lord_Whoopass]

Hey Hitech what is Manikes raking technique? I mean what points do you hit? both sides of the center hump and the bottom?

[sps16]

Originally posted by Crime Dog
So Tunaman...do YOU have 4.0 yet? ;)

P.S. You have email from me. :)
from i was told at the meet, 4.0 is not an official release yet, its still in beta

[MrWallen]

Sps16, don't you remember what Miscue told us about what people had 4.0? And how long they've had it?

[sps16]

Originally posted by MrWallen
Sps16, don't you remember what Miscue told us about what people had 4.0? And how long they've had it?
i never said that tunaman didnt have it, i was just inferring that Crime Dog couldn't get it yet. Sorry for not being clear

[ZAust]

Originally posted by USAF-Flyboy with a Mag


Why kidnapp him when he already makes us great toys...all you have to do is buy the guy a sam adams =)

yknow, its amazing that a guy who pounds beers like miscue does;) could even write something like 4.0. :p

[USAF-Flyboy with a Mag]

Originally posted by ZAust


yknow, its amazing that a guy who pounds beers like miscue does;) could even write something like 4.0. :p

AHAHAHAHAH...actually at the rate that he was going 1 per 2 hrs....I think that is exactly why he can write 4.0

[sps16]

:D

[Evil1]

Miscue, if ever you decide to build a board, please make it easier to install than a morlock.

[Carbon]

Miscue, just a heads up you probably know about regarding 4.0

DB set to 1 - 4

ROF up to 18bps

In pure E mode, after quickly walking the trigger the gun goes full auto, until i pull the trigger, or push the trigger forward. The gun is degassed and the safety is on. I can heare the solenoid actuating. Hope this helps

[Evil1]

Is this new software the version that Tom said would blow 3.2 out of the water? Also has anyone that has the beta version of 4.0 tried shooting with a nitro duck x-stream adjustable? If so, how was it? Did it keep up?

[USAF-Flyboy with a Mag]

Originally posted by Carbon
Miscue, just a heads up you probably know about regarding 4.0

DB set to 1 - 4

ROF up to 18bps

In pure E mode, after quickly walking the trigger the gun goes full auto, until i pull the trigger, or push the trigger forward. The gun is degassed and the safety is on. I can heare the solenoid actuating. Hope this helps

Carbon,
Mine did this also at the meet. I remedied it by upping the debounce. I latter found out the reason that it started going full auto on the lower debounce settings is because my battery was getting low. The new software drains your battery much faster then the previous versions. The high rates of fire now attained require more amperage to sustain it. On the way home I through it on the battery charger and the full auto on the lower debounces went away.

[USAF-Flyboy with a Mag]

Originally posted by AGDFlash
Is this new software the version that Tom said would blow 3.2 out of the water? Also has anyone that has the beta version of 4.0 tried shooting with a nitro duck x-stream adjustable? If so, how was it? Did it keep up?

My preset PE is supposedly set for 850. It was keeping up with the software, but I believe Tom said mine was the only preset that could keep up with it. He also said that if I really want to see what it could to...to get a good adjustable and set the pressure at 1000.

[Miscue]

Originally posted by Carbon
Miscue, just a heads up you probably know about regarding 4.0

DB set to 1 - 4

ROF up to 18bps

In pure E mode, after quickly walking the trigger the gun goes full auto, until i pull the trigger, or push the trigger forward. The gun is degassed and the safety is on. I can heare the solenoid actuating. Hope this helps

That's the exact same problem I have with Webby's XMag. I noticed that if I don't let go of the trigger all the way, it doesn't do it... well at least, I think.

At first I thought I had a bug, but I can duplicate this on 3.2 as well... so it's not the software. But I'm not sure why it does that. Reversing the wires = same problem except FA when the trigger is held - opposite. I tried a new HES, and it didn't matter.

I was going to look at this tomorrow, actually... because it's an annoying problem. What I was going to do is adjust the trigger length and the magnet to see if I can make the noise issue go away... I think they might be adjusted right at that perfect spot where there's a problem.

If you resolve this before I do, let me know. Otherwise I'll look at it tomorrow.

[Miscue]

Originally posted by USAF-Flyboy with a Mag


Carbon,
Mine did this also at the meet. I remedied it by upping the debounce. I latter found out the reason that it started going full auto on the lower debounce settings is because my battery was getting low. The new software drains your battery much faster then the previous versions. The high rates of fire now attained require more amperage to sustain it. On the way home I through it on the battery charger and the full auto on the lower debounces went away.

Urm... it should use the same amount of power because the solenoid dwell time is the same.

Like I mentioned before: The problem with the low battery and FA is: The HES requires power to send a logic high to the board. When power is too low, the solenoid steals power from the HES and logic highs get dropped to lows even though the trigger is held. Solenoid turns off, HES gets power... logic high again. And, the cycle repeats. This happens when the battery is almost dead, and is beyond not being able to fire the marker.

[lamby]

Miscue,

I was at AGD today, and they told me that your software has adjustable MROF and an adjustable debounce. Is this true? If this is true wouldn't the two settings directly affect the other? All markers that I have seen (alot of them) have either debounce settings (timmys) or MROF settings (angels)

either setting is a delay before another trigger pull can be reconized that is adjusted in miliseconds. If you have a debounce to 1ms then it will be ready to fire again in 1ms after the trigger pull. eliminate the mechanics, and we get a 1000sps limit (granted your dwell times and cycle speeed affect this too, but for the case of discusion lets for get those and use pure electronics. So electicly it will fire the solinoid 1000 times a second) but if you set your debounce to 10ms it can only shoot 100sps (again electronics only)100ms debouce is 10sps and so on. The 1.37 and 3.2 software, and the IR3 adjusted debounce via the MROF adjustment that then induced a delay based on that time.

ie 20bps = a delay/debouce of 50ms before another firing squence could be completed(including all the sequences that happen to fire the gun. (atleast another activation of the solenoid)) the problem I see is with things like the WAS board where it caches the shots at 1000 times/sec and then will allow then to fire when the sequence in complete known as shot buffering. lets say in 30ms or 33.333sps (the fastest non gassed timmy speed I have seen).

This is longer than I expected it to be, and prob more confusing than it should be, but what I am asking is your MROF adjusted via the soleloid dwell timing and the debounce only a delay on trigger read BEFORE the shot buffer counts shots and not tied into the actual firing of the marker? If so, SWEET, that is exactly what I had in mind for some software that I wrote in basic a while ago that I could not get to run right. (the atmel did not have the power i needed. I would have had to use a pic and the I/O lines were not compatible with the AT90S. So it was out.

[Miscue]

Originally posted by lamby
Miscue,
This is longer than I expected it to be, and prob more confusing than it should be, but what I am asking is your MROF adjusted via the soleloid dwell timing and the debounce only a delay on trigger read BEFORE the shot buffer counts shots and not tied into the actual firing of the marker? If so, SWEET, that is exactly what I had in mind for some software that I wrote in basic a while ago that I could not get to run right. (the atmel did not have the power i needed. I would have had to use a pic and the I/O lines were not compatible with the AT90S. So it was out.

Urm... it's not that complicated. You can have debounce and a MROF at the same time... working independently of each other. I have no idea what you're talking about with controlling the MROF via the solenoid dwell timing, as well as a few other things.

There's the debounce that's related with shot buffering, MROF time so buffered shots don't exceed this ROF, and a separate solenoid dwell time. The MROF has nothing to do with when a shot can be buffered. It has to do with how fast a buffered shot can be sent out.

[USAF-Flyboy with a Mag]

GO TO SLEEP MAN!! :D

[lamby]

oh, I see.

that is what I wanted to do, but never though of a delay independant of the solenoid.

BRAVO!!! soulds like something that I would love to have on my marker

[smilestyler]

Is anyone able to compare the performance between the 4.0 version vs. the morlock board?

[Duke of Lawnchair]

Originally posted by pbguy888
Ive just traded my viking for Gibbys Emag with 4.0. Does that mean I am a beta tester now?

Gibby, is this truey?!?! :eek:

[RoadDawg]

Originally posted by AGDFlash
Is this new software the version that Tom said would blow 3.2 out of the water? Also has anyone that has the beta version of 4.0 tried shooting with a nitro duck x-stream adjustable? If so, how was it? Did it keep up?

My 4500 flatline kept up at 20 bps full auto with no skipping or loss of pressure. It wasn't a software related problem but a mechanical problem. Still pretty cool.

[Steelrat]

AHAHAHAH The AKA shooters corrupted Gibby!

[Blennidae]

Originally posted by Steelrat
AHAHAHAH The AKA shooters corrupted Gibby!

...said the man who just picked up an Emag.;)

[Duke of Lawnchair]

Originally posted by Blennidae


...said the man who just picked up an Emag.;)

OUCH!

An eye for an eye.

[OfficerGoat]

Hey Q.... interesting phenomina happning on my gun right now. No matter how fast I pull the trigger my MAX is 5. lol
I can rip the snot out of it and still..... 5 Weird stuff. I reset it... and now all I can get is 4. WTF? lol Ether something is wonky or My fingers need help... BAD ;) Its no big deal... the gun still fires every pull... it just displays a really low max for some reason.

BTW ..thanks bigtime for Tweaking the trigger out for me.

[Steelrat]

Well, I kept my Viking, and bought the Emag as a second gun. Gibby gave the whole dang emag the heave-ho. And I bought mine because I was so impressed by meeting Tom Kaye. Gibby meets him, then runs out and dumps the E ;) However, I am sure Gibby has other mags...

[hitech]

Originally posted by Lord_Whoopass
Hey Hitech what is Manikes raking technique? I mean what points do you hit? both sides of the center hump and the bottom?

Yes, the center and the bottom. Raking sort of on the side, not directly in front of the trigger. It's kind of hard to explain.