Is the DM4 really that good?

[Evil1]

I have been throwing the idea around to buy a DM4 when they are out for a few weeks now and I'm really confused on whether I should or not. What I mean is that I have a bunch of AGD guns and want something else to throw in the lineup and was just wondering if the DM4 would amaze like the EMag has. I have seen the videos of the DM4 and I have seen the videos of the EMag. In terms of speed there doesn't seem to be much of a difference except it looks like it is easier to walk a DM4.

[bunkermaster10]

IMO DM4,A4, and 04' Viking > anything on the market right now. I think the DM4 will be great. GET IT!!!!

[LeatherPants]

The DM4 is pretty nice. I shot one the other day and it rips. I personally would wait till it comes out in LCD. Right now you have to count colors and flashes to program it. Also like anything the first run always has glitches.

Even the Viking. Steel was having chopping problems with it this past weekend. I know he is going to beta test a new bolt for it.

I'd wait and see. Even the 04 Alias that I used this past weekend was choppping like mad on me.

[-=Squid=-]

Of course I would recommend an 04 viking, I LOVE mine, but to be fair the DM4 is a sweet gun. I saw one at the memphis indoor, and its completely sweet.

[LudavicoSoldier]

I hear that they are illegally fast (if such a thing actually exists anymore). No word on reliability though.

[Evil1]

I wasn't aware that there was no screen display on them. On such a great gun you have to count colors? I'll wait till the LCD comes out. Are these guns really $1500 or is that MSRP? That is the price they had on the dye website.

[-=Squid=-]

Originally posted by AGDFlash
I wasn't aware that there was no screen display on them. On such a great gun you have to count colors? I'll wait till the LCD comes out. Are these guns really $1500 or is that MSRP? That is the price they had on the dye website. Thats MSRP. I think they are something like 1200 from pbgear.com They dont have an LCD screen.

[SaS]

yea, 1500 just seems crazy to me

[RoadDawg]

They rip but it never hit my fancy yet. I'd give it a try after a few months.

[rikkter]

my friend just got one for the person he works for.
pictures online, holy nerf gun. but once you get it in your hands, its actually a very unique, cool looking gun.
with the trigger at its stock settings, him and i could easily rip on it, plus many of the videos online, is just crazy.

but personally, it doesn't touch my interest

[$tevo]

they are like 1350 i think i saw at pbgear.com but i didnt take a good look at the price, was mostly lookin at the marker. and its freakin nice, but im gonna stick with my mag

[*ArKfEaR*]

DM4 is good but just like the '03 shocker, half and half. Some people say it sucks, some people say they had problems while others say its perfectly fine for them.

But personally, I would pick up a speed (with a4 bolt, and volumizers) its pretty unstoppable.

Either that or wait for the MacDev Cyborg to come out which is going to be the best one yet.

[Rope a Dope]

http://www.potatoboy.net/users/funkmunky/DM4Pwned-2.JPG

[Mango]

LMAO Rope a Dope!!


Yeah cause having an LCD screen makes it SOOO much better. Clearly.

[magsRus]

What makes the A4 different from any other angel that has been made. I'm not flaming the A4 its just that I owned an IR3 and an LCD and my friend shoots a SPEED and besides cosmetics I never notice any difference.

[nouseforaname]

http://www.carnagepaintball.com/VIDEO/dm4.wmv

cool video of the DM4 in action, its like a 5:30min video but its really cool

[Evil1]

What are some of the reported problems with the DM4? An LCD screen would be nice being it is over $1000 and there are guns under$300 w/ them. The DM4 is not my final choice yet. LIke I said before just another gun to throw in the lineup. I know the DM4 is not very attactive looking, but I've never based a marker decision on looks. I've seen beautiful guns shoot like total crap. From what I've seen, this gun does rip and did not chop any paint in the process. And one more thing: An 03 shocker is totally out of the question. I shot one a few months ago and hated the trigger on it and to be quite honest SP never really impressed me.

[DiRTyBuNNy]

I had a DM4...for 2 days...made 200 with it...I can't complain..sounds great to me..

[Evil1]

How much did the DM4 cost you DirtyBunny? If you don't mind my asking. Is it fast like in the videos? What makes the gun easy to rip on?

[Rope a Dope]

Hey DiRTyBuNNy, is that yours in the trash? lol

The reason they are so easy to rip on is because when you pull the trigger 10 times in 1 second it shoots 25 times due to trigger bounce.

[Evil1]

If thats the case then this gun is going to cause major issues when the use of it becomes more widespread. I thought maybe the guys in the vids were just trigger gods. It still seemed awful fast to be semi auto. Like I said though, if all this stuff is true about the bounce then there will be alot of stuff going on in a few months.

[rikkter]

i can easily hit 15+ on my emag with 3.2, in E mode. i RARELY run it in Manual. so i dont see why it'd be so hard to rip on it anyways

[Meph]

Well it depends, honestly I'd just get the LCD DYE Matrix over DM4. Why?

Internally they are really the same. Oh sure, the DM4 has the "fusion" bolt, but c'mon. Look at the bolt, how the airflow works. They are identical. Only real difference is that the DM4 pieces screw together while Matrix are floating around. Other than that airflow and performance of the design are the same.

All they did with the DM4 is relocate the LPR to the back and added that on/off knob. Big whoopty doo. Get a regular Matrix. DM4 is just an overly-elaborate, uber-expensive, glorified Matrix.


The board however, sure the DM4 is better. For people who like to set a debounce to 1 and go full-auto. But most people can just remove the trigger spring in the Matrix and shoot plenty fast!

And if people want them I do have pictures of DM4 internals to prove just how similar they are to regular Matrix internals.

Oh, and New shocker internals to boot. All know what a ripoff that is.

[xXHavokXx]

The DM4 is amazing. My Boss's rips like a machine gun. Quiet as all hell too. Yes its worth it

[JesseB]

I am with Meph Dye LCD all the way. I had the choice and my choice was the LCD.

[RT pRo AuToMaG]

Originally posted by Meph


All they did with the DM4 is relocate the LPR to the back and added that on/off knob. Big whoopty doo. Get a regular Matrix. DM4 is just an overly-elaborate, uber-expensive, glorified Matrix.



I agree with that completely. If you want a matrix, get either a Freeflow w/optical switch and eyes, Ironman (if you can find one), or another high end trix. If you want the same board, get an NYX matrix. DM4 has the 2nd generation NYX board in it, that's all, and honestly, you don't need a new board. I have an LCD matrix and i'm sending it to get UL milling from Demon guns. That brings the weight of the gun down to 2lbs (18 oz lighter then stock gun, 4oz lighter then ironman matrix). If the DM4 is lighter, I doubt it is to a noticeable difference. Another thing is that you cannot change out the feedneck of the DM4 on account of the shape of the body. It's pretty much an NYX matrix, minus the body, minus the removeable breech, minus the ability to upgrade the gun (Dye is not allowing anyone to make parts for the DM4), plus it's ugly, has had problems (could be because it is in the first run), and extremely expensive. For $1500, you can build an LCD Matrix milled out with ACE and the all the best parts, and you will still probably have a little money left over.

[Zumina]

The price reflects the sweet milling. If you're after performance, a regular trix is just as good.

[Meph]

Yeah.

So sweet a milling that they left some extra inside of the one I got to take apart and fix! Even more of it to love!! Gotta love QC work that gives you metal shavings inside the marker, now that's truely special.

[Zumina]

Meph, I'd love to see those pics!

[NoJoyPunk]

I think the DM4 looks very nice cosmetically, but a few things put me off about it:
1.Its made by Dye.
2.Do to the new body it doesn’t look like you can change the breech to take different barrel threads, correct me if I am wrong.
3.I have heard the reg compared to a valve on a bicycle tire.

Now I have never shot one, I would like to, but I wouldnt spend 1500 or however much just to be disappointed on a gun that I dont think has that much promise. I personally think Dye is just jumping on the Matrix bandwagon and it ultimately going to ruin what was a solid gun. Just my opinion though.

[Rope a Dope]

Dye's LPR's are horrible... everyone I know that has a Dye Matrix is selling theirs. The thing that sucks with the DM4 is it is built into the gun and cannot be changed.

Ouch.

[Meph]

Okay, I'll upload some images.


This is the DM4 I got to play with and work on. I gotta admit after being around it for a while the look grows on ya. I do think it looks quite nice.

[Meph]

Here is the "Fusion" bolt all together. It all pulls right out in one big fun yank. Sort of like taking all the guts out of a mag, everything just comes out nicely.

[Meph]

And here it is again, unscrewed. Notice just how similar it is to the regular Matrix? Hmmmmm..... yeah.

[Evil1]

I personally like the black dusted and the cobalt to clear. But I'm still unsure if the DM4 is the right choice. I'm a little leary now about it because it was mentioned thet the Dye lprs suck and cannot be changed out of the DM4 and that is kind of crappy being a guns performance especially the noid driven ones reliy on an lpr alot. I don't want to drop a buttload of money on a gun and have it perform like crap. A gun needs to be as reliable as my Emag and all the other AGD guns I own, but I may be asking for too much.

[Meph]

And while I'm at it... why the heck not. Here's the New Shocker's internals.

Note the similarities!!!

[Meph]

And layed out.

[bunkermaster10]

I got to hold a DM4 at my shop today and it seemed to be really nice. It seemed kinda long like a timmy. The trigger feels awesome. Its the lightest marker I have held. And I've shot/held ever marker out there basically.

[NoJoyPunk]

Well I watched the DM4 video and was very impressed. I have to admit it made me want one. Though if I was gonna get one I would go the LCD"DM3" route.

[50 cal]

They are pretty nice. Go to shoot a friends DM4 the other day.

Nice, but not $1500 worth of nice.

When will we see the newest SuperMagnumGelcap Squirter top the $2k mark?

[Taco]

wow suck insults shall be no more!!! lol ive had 1 for a cuple weeks now, of course my arms broken but i can still pull the trigger nd run air nd paint thru it without playin, but as far as im concerned.. it's by far the best marker on the market

[845]

Where can i get pics of this lightening milling for the LCD Trix I am looking into a trix and I wanna explore all my options.

[Meph]

Figured I'd make some animation to help people along on how those internals work. This is an LCD Matrix animated version, but the same thing follows be it DM4, 03 Shocker, or even PGI Mayhem or Nova (to a point).

http://www.boomspeed.com/meph2001/matrixbolt.gif


Just wish I could've made everything to scale, but not happening without computer scanning the internals! And not in Microsoft Paint with UnFreez!

[Beemer]

Gee can ya put the A I R valve next to that. Why doe that champaign glass look familiar

[Meph]

I could, but I don't want to start sketching a mag valve yet. Probably never, actually. Too much tiny crud to work with for it to look/work properly with "flipbook" animation.

Just look at the rear seal and rotate 90*, think of it as the on/off assembly by AGD. It'll look close enough to the AIR valve that way. And save me a lot of time.

[Beemer]

I know thats why I said it looked familiar



missing back half


http://www.automags.org/pic/img/lvl10/lvl10_1.gif

http://www.boomspeed.com/meph2001/matrixbolt.gif

[DiRTyBuNNy]

Meph...love the animation..that always helps explain the principles behind the matrix operation to people...and yours is really clear to understand..

[SaS]

just pointing out the main differences in operations..... just if someone has trouble reading the animation.

Matrix has air pressure for bolt return, so it looks like. The mag has the main spring.

The matrix has the "seperation valve" as part of the moving bolt. The Mag has it actuated by the trigger sear.

Seperation valve... calling it an on/off may of got confusing. But just some devise that seperates the tanks airflow with the airchamber that is used to shoot the ball

Looks to be, fundamentally, the same thing. Good ol "Piston style" with a air chamber:D
but of course, all paintball markers are practically the same :D.... or at least a few main catagories


edit..... wow, just came to mind.
IF you started with the matrix design and was approached with the problem of how to make it mechanical. The end result would be the mag. Just think about it for a second.:)

well..... a mag or a funky mix between a cocker and a mag. Mag valve with cocker pneumatics to move the bolt.

[Beemer]

need the A I R on the back

I saw the mag animation around here some where in a sig.

I thought I saw it here some where or on AGD site, now I cant find it

Whos got it? Help Please.

[SaS]

here it is

[Meph]

Seperation valve... calling it an on/off may of got confusing.


The reason why I call it an "on/off" is because I try to describe things in uniform. Meaning instead of 5 different proprietary terms I try to use one generalized term. Example being the mag on/off and the matrix Bolt Stem (that's the official term). They both serve the same function of sealing air supply to the air chamber until the bolt has sealed.

Or like the Bolt Sail of the matrix, I refer to that as well as an "autococker ram" function.


When you use terms/ideas of products that people already know about and understand. You make it that much easier for them to understand the different item you're explaining.

[SaS]

true... I was creating a new term to discirbe two similarly performing items. Sort of a brouder/generalized term or catagory. Made sense at the time:D

[magman109]

Ok just gona set some things strait here, or atleast give my input to what i know.

1) the dye LPR on the dm4 rocks. They redesigned the old LPR that was on the DYE LCD's and this one works way better. It is not removable, but it works great so there is no reason to remove it.

2) the comment about DM4's bouncing like mad is false. In the video they have it go full auto, i dont know how they did it, i have never seen that in any other dm4 and there is no bounce in the video. Everyone is complaining how they dont have bounce even with debounce on level one. These are guys comming from timmies with was, and they are sad they dont have bounce. These guns rip withough bounce just so you know. I think the guy in the video is just fast as hell.

3) the regs on the DM4 are one of the top 3 regs out there right now. Up there with the sidewinder and 04 glad.

The DM4s have come a long way from the first several out. they are great and are worth every penny.

Pat

PS you can get them for less than 1500, most stores are selling for 1300 or 1350, and i can get one for 1100. Just look around. In my opinion the best marker out now. Imma getting one in a few weeks, and a 2k4 alias for back up.

[xXHavokXx]

I love mine. I got very tight numbers over the chrono and lay ropes of paint.