Is it just me or...

[robdamanii]

...are people just jumping on every bandwagon out there?

thread one-penumatic spyder? (http://www.pbreview.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=1754231#post1754231)

thread two-spyder/timmy??? (http://www.pbreview.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=199296)

C'mon. No spyder will ever be an angel or an impulse. Is it just me or are ideas such as that and The One kit a huge waste of time and resources?

[RT pRo AuToMaG]

people have money to waste....wish they would put it to use and give it to me so i can upgrade my trix ;)

[robdamanii]

Yeah. Let's spend 600 bucks on making a spyder into an Intimidator, when you can buy a pretty damn nice REAL electro for that price.

People are sheep when it comes to marketing gimmicks and common sense it seems.

[MayAMonkeyBeYourPinata]

You guys have obviously never seen a true tricked out spyder, and the one kit is not six hundred, its more like 200

[-=Squid=-]

The one kit is 200, and for people on a budget is the best bet. With the one kit you no longer have a spyder, you have a true electro pneumatic marker.

[robdamanii]

I own several tricked spyders.

The One kit reduces the cycling rate of the marker, makes it a maintainence intensive mess, a HPA only marker, and couple that with kingman's crappy manufacturing tolerances....

You can get the same performance out of a spyder with a lightened hammer, high flow internals, and an uncapped board. Trust me, it's NOT difficult.

The One is nothing more than a gimmick.

And FYI, making a spyder into a timmy would cost you around 600+ including milling and ano. Easily.

[-=Squid=-]

Originally posted by robdamanii
I own several tricked spyders.

The One kit reduces the cycling rate of the marker, makes it a maintainence intensive mess, a HPA only marker, and couple that with kingman's crappy manufacturing tolerances....

You can get the same performance out of a spyder with a lightened hammer, high flow internals, and an uncapped board. Trust me, it's NOT difficult.

The One is nothing more than a gimmick.

And FYI, making a spyder into a timmy would cost you around 600+ including milling and ano. Easily. In other words, its a cheap alternative to an electropneumatic marker. It doesnt reduce the ROF, either. Sorry bud, your wrong on this one.

[Rope a Dope]

I ordered two kits for my store.

$200 retail.

Most people already buy a Spyder and probaly have barrels for it, why not simply upgrade it into a whole new gun for a couple hundered more?

[sniper1rfa]

Apparently you arent aware that the intimidator was originally created as an upgrade kit for the spyder paintball marker, and sold as a complete marker to get rid of bob long's extra black widow spyder bodies.



I for one enjoy playing paintball with my raptorcocker.

[deathstalker]

Originally posted by robdamanii
People are sheep when it comes to marketing gimmicks and common sense it seems.
If they were sheep, wouldn't they just be buying Timmies? :rolleyes:



*EDIT* Please fix your sig.

[tyrion2323]

First of all, don't go bashing Spyders and Draguns. I would pit a team with a TES (w/ or w/out the one) against a team with timmies anyday. The Intimidator isn't really much more than a Spyder - in fact, classic timmies are basically the same thing as the Dragun TES. Sure Timmies are the hot thing out today, but except for the Ram and the breakbeam eyes, they're no better than a TES. And a One'd TES has a ram in it.

[can'tthink of1]

I like what they are doing. They're doing something different and for that I respect them. I don't really want to spend that money, but it would be a cool project. In a world where timmy's and angel's are looked upon as the best(not really)these creators have something totally different that few others have. That IMO is worth the cost. Kinda like you rob, u make spyders that perform well, and you support spyders and don't doubt their performance compared to timmies and such. Me, well I wanted to be different and bought a marker thats a few years old, my tribal, and know what, I'm glad I did. My two cents.

*edit* sortof OT but rob, how do you like the Mag and the speed?

[Digits]

Originally posted by sniper1rfa
Apparently you arent aware that the intimidator was originally created as an upgrade kit for the spyder paintball marker, and sold as a complete marker to get rid of bob long's extra black widow spyder bodies.



I for one enjoy playing paintball with my raptorcocker.

He's only speaking the truth..

[-=Squid=-]

Originally posted by tyrion2323
First of all, don't go bashing Spyders and Draguns. I would pit a team with a TES (w/ or w/out the one) against a team with timmies anyday. The Intimidator isn't really much more than a Spyder - in fact, classic timmies are basically the same thing as the Dragun TES. Sure Timmies are the hot thing out today, but except for the Ram and the breakbeam eyes, they're no better than a TES. And a One'd TES has a ram in it. Actually, no. Classic timmies are the same as any newer timmy, minus some bells and whistles.

They do not function with a spring, and are very different than a spyder. Other than the body, there really isnt anything the same.

[robdamanii]

Originally posted by -=Squid=-
In other words, its a cheap alternative to an electropneumatic marker. It doesnt reduce the ROF, either. Sorry bud, your wrong on this one.

It reduces max cycling rate, which is around 50 CPS in a lightened internal blowback.

The One reduces that to around the mid 30s.

And FYI, the eye on the TES is crap once you hit 10 BPS.

[GA Devil]

do you remember when the timmy first came out for 500-600? it couldnt sell. they take it back raise the price and now it sells like crazy and there isnt much different. Its the deal of "its costs alot so it must be good" Hell if they brought chevettes back and charged 40k for 1 they would sell just cause they were expensive. Its all about keepign up with the jones's. Its still just a built spider with a high price tag.

[robdamanii]

I agree its a bit of "keeping up with the jones'" but the thing I don't get is why they're spending so much money on milling and anno and One kits to turn a spyder into a timmy. To me, a tricked bloback is one creature, but making a blowback into an electro inherantly robs the blowback of what makes it unique, so to speak.

If you figure the guy whos got an e-99 wants a One kit, he's throwing away his frame and all of his internals. To me, I'd rather have a factory built electro from ICD than spend 200 on a One kit, and another 60 on a spyder to put it in. It's not far from BKO territory at all.

I'd rather have a true electro (as in, concieved as an electro, not a blowback) than fiddle around with poor manufacturing tolerances, kits, etc etc with a converted blowback.

I give them points for ingenuity, but on a purely fiscal hand, it's not exactly the greatest idea out there.

[shartley]

To each their own….

But to the “why upgrade a lesser product when you can buy the real deal”….. ever look at the Auto “tuner” market, or auto customizing? ;)

And as for the CPS/BPS debate…. If a marker can cycle at 1,000,000,000 CPM but the loader will only allow 20 BPS or so…. hmmmm is a marker that can ONLY cycle 20 CPM really worse than one that can cycle 50 or more? And if people are actually only shooting 10-15 BPS (no matter WHAT their marker tells them they are), how does THIS affect the arguments?

Seems to me that it is really the trigger and how fast the system can work without short stroking.. as well as the USER… that determines actual ROF’s now days (as well as feeding systems), not the markers’ “maximum mathematical speed” of its cycle rate. Paper ROFs don’t help you on the field.

Personally, I think we (paintball) have advanced to the point where pretty much all markers (leaving aside stock class or pumps) have some insane capabilities…. So it really comes down to user preference and how fast THEY can shoot given any particular marker. And some will be able to shoot one marker faster than another for various reasons that have NOTHING to do with how fast the marker itself can cycle. It looks like most markers perform better than the slowest link in the equation anyways.

… but again.. to each their own.

[robdamanii]

I agree completely with "to each their own", but I still find it mind boggling that people will spend so much money on converting a spyder to an electro when you can buy a better one for the price.

I suppose some people's desire to tinker and change outweighs performance considerations in some cases.

[shartley]

Originally posted by robdamanii
I agree completely with "to each their own", but I still find it mind boggling that people will spend so much money on converting a spyder to an electro when you can buy a better one for the price.

I suppose some people's desire to tinker and change outweighs performance considerations in some cases.
Yeah, that is probably it…. along with having something different. I will not do it, but.. you know. ;)

[sniper1rfa]

listen, say im a newbie, i buy my spyder, use it for three years, and then feel outgunned.

Whats should i do?

A: Buy a timmy (a spyder with the "one" kit, and dont talk about tolerances, timmies suck) for like 600 bucks or...

B: Buy a "one" kit for my spyder, get everything the timmy has, for 200 bucks.

The fact is that when considering a one kit, you arent considering buying a spyder and upgrading, as you already bought the spyder and want to upgrade to a rambolt electro (which, of course, are all pretty much the same).


And you talk about mindless sheep?

[shartley]

Originally posted by sniper1rfa
listen, say im a newbie, i buy my spyder, use it for three years, and then feel outgunned.

Whats should i do?

A: Buy a timmy (a spyder with the "one" kit, and dont talk about tolerances, timmies suck) for like 600 bucks or...

B: Buy a "one" kit for my spyder, get everything the timmy has, for 200 bucks.

The fact is that when considering a one kit, you arent considering buying a spyder and upgrading, as you already bought the spyder and want to upgrade to a rambolt electro (which, of course, are all pretty much the same).

Another good point.

[robdamanii]

Originally posted by sniper1rfa
listen, say im a newbie, i buy my spyder, use it for three years, and then feel outgunned.

Whats should i do?

A: Buy a timmy (a spyder with the "one" kit, and dont talk about tolerances, timmies suck) for like 600 bucks or...

B: Buy a "one" kit for my spyder, get everything the timmy has, for 200 bucks.

The fact is that when considering a one kit, you arent considering buying a spyder and upgrading, as you already bought the spyder and want to upgrade to a rambolt electro (which, of course, are all pretty much the same).


And you talk about mindless sheep?

It still would not perform up the the quality of a higher end marker. Take an angel with a break beam trigger, fully ajustable board, sens-i...versus a One spyder with a switched trigger, a less than fully adjustable board, no AC system...

I'd rather drop the money on a decent electro then deal with issues related to putting a kit on an existing one. Not to mention, when your One marker breaks down, do you think you'll be fixing it right on the staging area table? Probably not, depending on the issue, but it's sure as hell more difficult to fix than a standard open bolt blowback marker. Additionally, if you purchase a new marker, you still have a solid backup in case your main one goes down. By replacing all the stuff in your spyder with a One kit, you're putting all your eggs in one basket, unless of course you carry your trigger frame, striker, valve and pin, spring kit, VA, LPC, and all the tools required to do a full internal swap with you to the field (not really unreasonable, just a pain in the ***).

[shartley]

Originally posted by robdamanii
It still would not perform up the the quality of a higher end marker. Take an angel with a break beam trigger, fully ajustable board, sens-i...versus a One spyder with a switched trigger, a less than fully adjustable board, no ACE...
It would not allow you to shoot paintballs at high ROFs? How you do measure performance quality? And are you saying that unless you have all the things you just listed, the marker is not up to the quality or performance of those WITH it? How does an e-mag stack up against that standard? How about the RT Pro?

I am sorry, I have never felt that while shooting my RT Pro I was at any less performance level or quality than any other marker on the field. Heck, I often times have been told I was shooting FASTER than most other markers on the field.. to include Angels. Then again, I am a “rec” player, so I am sure that matters. ;)


Originally posted by robdamanii
I'd rather drop the money on a decent electro then deal with issues related to putting a kit on an existing one. Not to mention, when your One marker breaks down, do you think you'll be fixing it right on the staging area table? Probably not, depending on the issue, but it's sure as hell more difficult to fix than a standard open bolt blowback marker.
When your Angel with break beam trigger goes out, are you also going to fix it there on the table in the staging area? How about if your fully adjustable board fries, are you going to fix that on the staging area table as well?

There are countless times when someone may not choose (or be able to) fix their marker on the staging area table. That is why people have backups.

Please understand, I am not saying you don’t have valid reasons for YOU not to buy this type of upgrade kit…. But the reasons you are using to argue against them in general just don’t hold up very well.

[shartley]

You edited your post above… so here is my reply to this added part…

Originally posted by robdamanii
Additionally, if you purchase a new marker, you still have a solid backup in case your main one goes down. By replacing all the stuff in your spyder with a One kit, you're putting all your eggs in one basket, unless of course you carry your trigger frame, striker, valve and pin, spring kit, VA, LPC, and all the tools required to do a full internal swap with you to the field (not really unreasonable, just a pain in the ***).
Well, what if the person likes their marker but wants to upgrade it and does not WANT another marker? And buying a new marker (to include new tank and all the accessories that go with it) me be out of the price range for some people… while simply upgrading existing equipment may very well be in their budget.

Yes, having a backup is a good thing. But so is having the marker you WANT. ;)

[robdamanii]

Originally posted by shartley
You edited your post above… so here is my reply to this added part…

Well, what if the person likes their marker but wants to upgrade it and does not WANT another marker? And buying a new marker (to include new tank and all the accessories that go with it) me be out of the price range for some people… while simply upgrading existing equipment may very well be in their budget.

Yes, having a backup is a good thing. But so is having the marker you WANT. ;)

Well, assuming your air tank will make the swap, and your hopper, it wouldn't be so bad.

I do agree it's not a bad option if you're putting it in the situation you're describing (although there are parts that you can purchase that will increase the performance to an equal level for a slightly lower cost), but when you're building a spyder completely from scratch just to be a "spydertimmy" then I find it kind of ridiculous.

[-=Squid=-]

Originally posted by robdamanii


Well, assuming your air tank will make the swap, and your hopper, it wouldn't be so bad.

I do agree it's not a bad option if you're putting it in the situation you're describing (although there are parts that you can purchase that will increase the performance to an equal level for a slightly lower cost), but when you're building a spyder completely from scratch just to be a "spydertimmy" then I find it kind of ridiculous. Have you even tried this kit?