mags in the tourney scene... not the one that we usually talk about

[sneakyhacker420]

last night i was thinking to myself, why do peole complain about mags not being used in the tournament scene now-a-days

they were top-of-the-line back in the early 90's but now they've fallen to the staus of 'blender' despite the relase of the LX kit

this made me wonder... i don't see AKA guns like vikings and excaliburs being used in the large-scale tournament scene... so why do people always pick on mags?

sure AKA guns are fast and efficent, but they don't get used in many major events, and i don't see people complaining about how they rarely see an AKA gun at their field... much less in a tourney


trust me... i don't have anything against any mags... ask of tonight, i will own 4 complete automags - my newest addition to my family will be a Green X-Mag w00t! (i'm trading my dragon timmy for it)



anyways, back on topic:

why do people always pick on mags despite all of AGD's improvements upon them? :confused:

[Cryer]

ignorance

[sneakyhacker420]

... :eek:

[Prairie]

Originally posted by sneakyhacker420


why do people always pick on mags despite all of AGD's improvements upon them? :confused:

They don't like the base gun that they are improving upon.

[sneakyhacker420]

whats wrong with them? you got the x-mag or ULE e-mag straight outta the box... well, tell me, what can you improve?

[headcase]

two things....

If you read AKA forums, specificly at PBNation, you will see people wondering why AKA markers are not in the tourny scene. A thread usually pops up bi-weekly. The main reason is the same as AGD's, AKA is a small operation, and they won't/can't put out the money to sponser a pro team.

The ULE E-mag and the X-mag are the improvements. The base platform being improved upon in the late 90's level 7 mag. It was around then that Mag's got the reputation as a blender, and that is the reputation that has stuck.

[Cryer]

An emag is a MAG, so is an XMAG.
When someone thinks of a mag, they think if all the pics they see with the stainless bodies, the stainless valves, the cut-apart carbon frames, home-made 2x triggers, etc.
AGD was a little late streamlining their marker line-up (imo, it still has a way to go), and thats what people look at.
Why buy a gun that, by all outward appearances, could double as a damn boat anchor? We, here at AO, are the vast majority af those who know the true quality and magnitude of the leaps forward AGD has come up with, not only for their own ,line, but the entire industry. The mags you see hear are both functionally and aesthetically amazing, although people outside AO dont go looking for that. They expect it to find them. And in many cases, it has, via Bob Long, Bud Orr, and others who have invested in high-visibility marketing.

What AGD has sorely needed ever since last decade, is a cosmetic overhaul. It seems like they've started in that direction, and I understand that they are a small company, but alot is left to be desired. The bodies and rails should be incorporated into one piece. That would cut down on tolerance issues between the 2 parts, I think, as well as look a hell of alot better. They also need to invest in better cosmetic finishing. they machined look of the ULE bodies and the I/Y-frames, and everything else is horrible, imo. They need to be polished smooth to a mirror finish. (and the triggers need to be annoed to match the rest of the gun, geez...:p)

Even still, I remain 100% loyal to AGD. I know the true quality of what can be made out of a mag.
I'm in the process of buying an all ULE Emag and I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that I will be more than pleased with its performance.

[Prairie]

Originally posted by sneakyhacker420
whats wrong with them? you got the x-mag or ULE e-mag straight outta the box... well, tell me, what can you improve?

Speed...
Feel...
Smoothness...

All personal reasons why I don't own one :-P

[Cryer]

Originally posted by Prairie


Speed...
Feel...
Smoothness...

All personal reasons why I don't own one :-P

d00d, go read the norcal-socal pic thread...They're testing a new software 4.0 that they say was outrunning the regulators on some of the preset tanks they used :eek:
3.2 is fast as-is, but this will blow everything away

The trigger is adjustable for your preference, too. out of the box, its smoother than anything else i've messed with thanks to the magnet.



What do you mean "feel"? the shape of the grip?

[sneakyhacker420]

cryer said it...

i'd like to see any other valve on a marker recharge faster than the tank that's supplying it :eek:

[Evil1]

I think the only thing that could be improved a little is the efficiency of the mag.

[tony3]

The battery pack has to go, thats what is keeping me leaning away from emags. I have tried it in a game and didnt like it at all. I felt like I couldn't get a good grip on the gun, plus I think it makes it look really boxxy. I don't think we are going to see mags widely used as imps per say on the tourney scene for a good while.

[cphilip]

You guys were not around when Mags were known as the non choppers and Cockers were known to chop really bad. That was the scene back in the day. Yep. It's true. Ask some of the really old guys from back in the old tourney days.

[sneakyhacker420]

i've visited thoes days a few times... watched 5 or so old tourney videos with the all americans using their mags, shocktech with mags... all that good stuff... good times... good times...*voice drifts off*

[Grasshopper]

Guns get used in large tournaments because people are paid to use 'em, not necessarily because 'Gun A' is better 'Gun B'.

[Beemer]

Originally posted by sneakyhacker420
i've visited thoes days a few times... watched 5 or so old tourney videos with the all americans using their mags, shocktech with mags... all that good stuff... good times... good times...*voice drifts off*

Ha Ha Ha

We BEAT THE AAs and they were caught on vid cheating

[OfficerGoat]

I think the emags need some refinements personaly. But just little stuff.

So far as speed etc... with the new software and a tuned in trigger setup E/Xmags will easaly keep up with anything else out there. I was able to get 18 out of mine this evening after geting a software update and a little bit of finess in the trigger tuning. I.E. I let Miscue give it a rundown. BTW... you are the only person to EVER tweek one of my guns besides myself. No really... it runs very nice... thanks!! :)

Anyhow back to the statements at hand.... These guns seriously mow now with the software tuneup. I no longer regret trading out my Timmy on this gun ;)

If you really want to see these guns out there we need to mow some folks down. If they see these guns ripping then they will go for them too. Elsewise they will just keep with what they think is the best out there. <shrug>

[hAppy]

Originally posted by sneakyhacker420

why do people always pick on mags despite all of AGD's improvements upon them? :confused: first impression years ago

-heavy
-ugly
-blender

now w/ that reputation, it stuck, and everyone decided to stay away from mags

people who did give agd a chance realized that the upgrades are just WILD!

and as the agd owners are electrified, they just keep staring at tom come up w/ more wild thing such as... lvl 10, ult, warp, crazy trigger frames, and xmags

[Beemer]

first impression years ago

-heavy
-ugly
-blender



Not a blender
Ya you get two out of three. The BIG problem was paint feed couldnt keep up back then. I Played whole tournys with out a break on co2. You just had to know how to drive the race car. The only time I got breaks was from over shooting the feed. The new players didnt learn how to shoot it. Like you said first impressions

[JuggaloDave]

i thnk that list is refering to the first impressions ppl get, and alot of the first impressions ppl get are not from actuall use. it is all internet msg board rumors, passed on by one ignorant turd to the next, and all truth is lost. happens all the time, this is why cockers shoot farther and have a flater trajectory(no, i dont believe this, i know it is wrong, just an example).

[Meph]

Why?

Last I checked AKA didn't produce a blender. Despite LVL10 that's the stereotype behind the mag, and I highly doubt it's going away anytime soon. People will just instantly look at a mag and go "it's a mag" and shrug it off, secure that they know they'll never use or own one and couldn't be happier about it.

But of course it's not all the customer's "ignorance" to be blamed, AGD didn't exactly help the situation. Back in the early 90's like you said, you are right. Mags were king. So AGD focus was more targeted at their military contracts, ignoring both major issue improvements (chopping!) and ignoring the stores that sell them. By the time other semis came out that were just as fast, or faster... AND more efficient without the blender-effect that was blamed on the customer for pulling the trigger improperly. By that time it was too late, the stereotype has been set in place and the shops started pushing the other markers instead. Had innovations like LVL10 came out in the mid 90's I think we might have a different situation on our hands.


*edit*
Oh yeah, wanted to also mention. Viking may be more efficient and electronic with eye and have WAS board or all that jazz. But there is one major difference between Viking and Mag. The Viking sales as of late have trippled!

[Meph]

Originally posted by cphilip
...and Cockers were known to chop really bad.


Awww c'mon, of course people gotta remember the "AutoChopper" it's classic!

[hAppy]

basically any gun would/could chop
but b/c mags were so "bad" back in the day, and cockers were their only competitive opponent
cockers came out looking much "better" than mags
that explains the years of "cockers more accurate/better than mags"
its too late to save the "classic's" rep
but not too late to save AGD's
i see a few warps around lately
i hear good reviews of RT mags
things are looking up since the rt custom

mags have become a trend in my city
theres bout 5 guys who just bought a mag in my area, about 1 month owners now

and theres much more people looking into the rt's in this area

after i demo'd my emag, they were instantly hooked on AGD
especially when i demo'd ULT, lvl 10, warp, and reactive sweetspotting

[cphilip]

Originally posted by Meph
Awww c'mon, of course people gotta remember the "AutoChopper" it's classic!

Seems they want to forget and have forgotten that. All this new generation doesn't know that. An effective job of turning it around for certain. However the Cocker guys did it all with Low Pressure and bolt speed slowing down tricks that also reduced their rate of fire. No one complained about low rate of fire back in them days! They would have fits if you introduced a fix today that reduced your rate of fire! I mean FITS! But then they were just happy thier Cockers were not chopping any more. And at about that time paint had become more and more brittle. And then mags started to chop a bit more than they used too. Slowly but surely things migrated around to where were just a few years ago. Thats when Tom realized the real issue was bolt speed and the "awaiting" ball being cracked by the fast bolt speed. Remember now, that Cocker people thought they had solved thier chopping issue with low pressure. In fact they were partialy mistaken all along. It was actualy the side effect that occured of slower bolt speed that was really doing it. So then Tom finds a way to slow our bolt speed down too. Level 10. And now we back in the hunt. But the advantage of Toms fix is much preferable to the early cockers fix. It slows it down ONLY until it passes by that awaiting ball and then it goes as fast as it ever did. So we have both of these things going for us.

So the question is now not if Mags will come back. Its just when and how much. Now we starting to see "the when" is now. It remains to be seen how much.

Yes there are some draw backs to the Mag. There are indeed some with any marker out there. You make a choice which one is more important to you and which one you can live with. If you chose recharge speed over efficency you are a Mag guy. Right now that is. Bigger higher pressure tanks are making that trade off more livable. So are we in the right place at the right time? It's very possible!

[Beemer]

They would have fits if you introduced a fix today that reduced your rate of fire!

ROF whats that. Can you say [ NoLimitExtremeWareSaftyGear pat.pend]