Paintball Trends: Bad Businesses

[Mateo]

After being into paintball for about...I don't know since I was 8? and now that I am out, I have notice many things that paintball in general is moving towards in terms of business. Back then things were different, a regular mag cost $400, it was Autococker vs Automag, all people wore camo, it was just a simpler time. Most people got along just fine, shared alot of good memories, it was about the good of the sport, getting it known, but then at about the turn of the millenium, things started going South and fast. I guess it was the tournament scene that is turning paintball into a fiasco that it has turned into today compared to the past. Business competition has started to really heat up and where companys make more money trying to out do the other, the people, integrity, and (I know this sounds corny) honor of paintball is getting lost in the commercialism of today.

Ive noticed more and more companies are disregarding quality control in return for profits. AKA, Evil, SP, etc all release products that in their first run just aren't up to par. They then do these recalls which seems to cost more if they just made it right the first time. Could be a certain date that they must release it like World Cup or IAO? Could be that they just want to make more money to expand their business or take over a certain percentage of the market? Could be they just don't care anymore? It shouldn't be a matter of could be, but shouldn't be. They shouldn't care about timeframes, shouldn't care about percentages, and should care about one thing: us.

My dad always said that the customer is right and thats what we are. Hell thats just good business practice. Customers don't want to pay $20-$100 shipping charges to send their busted up part/gun back to the factory only to get a note saying "everything is fixed" when its not or even harsher "go else where" like some friends of mine get and people on this board have gotten. People should recieve a good product. Period. I bet a ton of people are getting tired of this crap. They don't want to be haggled or given the shaft, they want to play and want to have some nice equipment to play paintball with.

I would make a paragraph about SP, but that subject has been beaten more times then a redheaded stepchild with a goofy smile. But I will say that everybody should look at SP and good because for the way things are going now thats paintballs painful and undeniable future. In these times, there is one company that stays constant like the North star, it never wavers, our beloved AGD. Sure AGD has made some mistakes but always corrected it not just let it go on, they always make innovations that change the face of paintball and always do the one thing that I hope will keep AGD afloat so that when I do come back they will still be here for me and countless others on hiatus: putting their customers first.

ALWAYS AGD is there for us. Sorta like a mother's love, they actually care about the customer and that loyalty will be forever in this 16 year old. I dont know how much a 16 year old's thanks means but keep on AGD, keep on.

[slushee]

Originally posted by Mateo
Ive noticed more and more companies are disregarding quality control in return for profits. AKA, Evil, SP, etc

Don't forget Centerflag :rolleyes:

[IWANTMOREMAGS]

You know what! You need to stop making fun of redheaded stepchildren with a goofy smiles!!

[Tunaman]

Originally posted by Mateo
ALWAYS AGD is there for us. Sorta like a mother's love, they actually care about the customer and that loyalty will be forever in this 16 year old. I dont know how much a 16 year old's thanks means but keep on AGD, keep on. Well I can tell you from experience that your 16 yr old brain is very well developed. You seem to know things that we have known all along. I was building mags before you were even born, and I can tell you that what YOU are seeing and feeling now is the same great stuff that I have known for years. Your thanks means a TON to AGD...and if I may speak for them I will say thanks to you too. The man behind this great company will not let you down. I can assure you that. I have seen it with my own eyes and ears. ;) :D :o

[tyrion2323]

I think that you're being a little bit harsh on these companies. I will speak about Evil, since I own an Omen. Yes, the original Omen was a bit tweaky - sometimes the recock was hard to adjust, sometimes it chopped...etc. But this is the case with almost any new product (i.e. mags chopped A LOT, the ULT didn't hit off very well, the LX comes with a CRAPPY manual, etc).

Evil paintball does FREE service to their omens. None of that "4-star" crap. They upgrade anything which is defective FOR FREE, and they are super cool over the phone. Anyways, what I'm saying is that companies will always have trouble with their first run of products. It's how they deal with helping the customers that really counts.

Jacob

[FooTemps]

Originally posted by tyrion2323
I think that you're being a little bit harsh on these companies. I will speak about Evil, since I own an Omen. Yes, the original Omen was a bit tweaky - sometimes the recock was hard to adjust, sometimes it chopped...etc. But this is the case with almost any new product (i.e. mags chopped A LOT, the ULT didn't hit off very well, the LX comes with a CRAPPY manual, etc).

Evil paintball does FREE service to their omens. None of that "4-star" crap. They upgrade anything which is defective FOR FREE, and they are super cool over the phone. Anyways, what I'm saying is that companies will always have trouble with their first run of products. It's how they deal with helping the customers that really counts.

Jacob

There is a difference between deffective and FULL SERVICE TUNE UP. AGD's stars is like going in for a full tune up on your car at 30,000 miles or whatever. Also, the AGD tweakiness examples aren't actual defects. The mag chopped because of bolt function and stayed that way and everyone accepted it. The ult didn't hit off because there wasn't mass hype to get people to buy it. The LX having a crappy manual doesn't mean the item is bad, just the packaging.

BUT this isn't about JUST customer service, it's about overall quality. AGD has just that, they have good customer service, they try to build lasting customer relations, they try to make the first run as good as the last run, and they actually THINK of the customer first.

[Lee]

evil/pmi....what a subject. i no longer buy anything from them that involves moving parts as they invariably either fail in the short term or are defective out of the box.

i've seen pmi regs that have not had air holes drilled all the way through, on/off valves for co2 tanks that leak which gets replaced by a new one that leaks which gets replaced by another one that leaks etc etc, i bought an 88/4500 tank of which the pin in the valve bent after one use...had it fixed only to get it back and find NO output pressure and had to return it for that.

i've seen whole fleets of new piranha rentals that had sears of metal so soft they had to be replaced after one days use, new out of the box omens with sear and solenoid issues, bigball paint that looks like footballs and has more pockmarks than a kid with a terminal case of acne.

there is a difference between customer service and customer support.
you support a customer by making a product or products that do not require you to have good customer service. after that, since we do not live in a perfect world, good customer service should be an expectation and a given.

[dansim]

Originally posted by tyrion2323
I think that you're being a little bit harsh on these companies. I will speak about Evil, since I own an Omen. Yes, the original Omen was a bit tweaky - sometimes the recock was hard to adjust, sometimes it chopped...etc. But this is the case with almost any new product (i.e. mags chopped A LOT, the ULT didn't hit off very well, the LX comes with a CRAPPY manual, etc).

Evil paintball does FREE service to their omens. None of that "4-star" crap. They upgrade anything which is defective FOR FREE, and they are super cool over the phone. Anyways, what I'm saying is that companies will always have trouble with their first run of products. It's how they deal with helping the customers that really counts.

Jacob

mags did not chop alot, ult's were successful for who they were marketed for, and if you know about the lx, you should know where to find the online info to tune it perfectly, releasing a faulty marker and not drawing an instalation picture well enough for you is too completly different and unreleated things:rolleyes:

[Mindflux]

Originally posted by Lee
bigball paint that looks like footballs and has more pockmarks than a kid with a terminal case of acne.



The bigball I've bought and shot, and seen others shoot at my field has been fine. The first time I went to this field near me (FPO) I shot PMI Premium, since that's what a few others had that day. It was horrible, a lot.. and I mean a LOT of breaks.. for everyone.

Next time I got a box, it was bigball, I had one barrel break all day, and my brother had none! That's after I got done putting the rest of the premium through his marker and breaking multiple balls on top of eachother. :|

I guess everyone has a bad batch every now and then... I personally think their paint is fine.

[tyrion2323]

FooTemps, I think that you're missing the point here:

AGD has a 4-star system for tune-ups/repairs/etc. Evil gives unlimited FREE tune-ups. They give unlimited FREE service repairs. All you do is get an RA# and send it in. Brian at Evil Tech has given me his personal # when I sent my Omen in - that's how good their tech is. I broke my own marker and they fixed it for free! Don't diss tech that you don't know about.

And let's not toot AGD's horn too much here. I love my mag, but c'mon, a 1991 manual and a card saying "go to automags.org for help" isn't really much of a technical suppliment. Sure, you can log on here for technical help, but not everyone has internet support.


mags did not chop alot, ult's were successful for who they were marketed for, and if you know about the lx, you should know where to find the online info to tune it perfectly, releasing a faulty marker and not drawing an instalation picture well enough for you is too completly different and unreleated things

Mags DO chop alot - which is why they released the LX. They are called blenders for a reason.
The ULT is marketed to EVERYONE, considering that it's on the ULE Custom order form. I've seen just as many "I hate ULT!" threads as I have seen "I love ULT."
And making the customer go online (not everyone has the internet) to fix their product is crap. What happens if your bolt begins to stick at the field?


BUT this isn't about JUST customer service, it's about overall quality. AGD has just that, they have good customer service, they try to build lasting customer relations, they try to make the first run as good as the last run, and they actually THINK of the customer first.

What you're implying here is that AGD is the only company who actually cares about the customer. And, of course, you're blatantly wrong. Consider Hybrid Tech. Consider Evil Tech. Consider lots of other tech groups which work overtime to make sure their customers are happy. The only reason that AGD can be sure that their products are superb is because they haven't really come up with a new product in 10 years. The eMag and xMag are great electros, but they aren't anything new to AGD - they are upgrades to an old platform. Don't get me wrong - the eMAG is my dream marker - I LOVE AGD , but I don't go around blasting everyone else who makes a mistake.

So chill out and worry about your own business, because you're spouting off about things that you're not really an expert on.

[dansim]

no mags did not chop alot, think for a friggen moment with what you call a brain, yeah that thing between your ears, its was a bad reputation, if mags always chooped then there would be no market, agd woulda gone outa business, and you wouldnt be argueing right now, a few people would ocasionally chop, someone would see and would say something and the rumors start, i guarantee everygun that has had the popularity the mag has had chopping problems, thats why eyes and mechanical "eyes" were invented to get rid of chopping, if no gun ever chopped then why make an eye?, tom created the lvl 10 kit to break that rumor, and well it looks like its the first mechanical eye, many have now followed suit, i guarantee that for every person who claimed they were"chopping" there as 20 having the best game of their lives and for every 20 people having a good time with any other marker is having the worst day

if the ult wasnt successful why do some many peole have it? its an oddity and a first for mechanical markers, like the z and y grip

if you had problems following the instructions for the lvl10, well then you an idiot(i just reread them) and should probally have you belt and shoelaces taken away

[tyrion2323]

Right...I'm the idiot. Nice spelling and punctuation.

You've missed the point in both of my posts, and now you're flaming me, which leads me to believe that it's not worth wasting my energy to spell it out for you. I'll try to dumb it down for you:

ABOUT CUSTOMER SERVICE:
My thoughts on customer service are stated above; however, I will restate them:
Companies will always have trouble with their first run of products. It's how they deal with helping the customers that really counts

ABOUT MANUALS:
As much as I love AGD, which I do, I stated earlier that an outdated manual and a small little card just don't cut it anymore.

ABOUT MAGS:
Yes, Dansim, automags were known to chop. If automags didn't chop, then the level-10 would not have come into existence. Your "guarantee" means nothing to me, mostly because you can barely scrape together a post.

ABOUT THE ORIGINAL POST:
The original post mentioned that most companies nowadays produce subpar products, and that AGD is the only real company to produce and maintain quality products. I was disagreeing with this.
AGD makes wonderful products, it's true; however, companies are entitled to make mistakes. No matter the testing facilities, real life applications will always uncover problems which were previously hidden to the engineers and producers. My point was that Evil's superb customer service and now top-notch product made up for the first run of Omens.

There it is. Flame away.

[03vert]

...ooh a lighter!;)

[dansim]

oh no, you have to go after spelling and punctuation, that means youve run outa arguments bye bye, go back to living under that rock:rolleyes:

[breg]

This turned into a flame fest fast.

[shartley]

Anyone know the story of the scorpion that needed a ride across the river?

[p8ntball1016]

Originally posted by shartley
Anyone know the story of the scorpion that needed a ride across the river? No! Tell us grampa!:rolleyes:

[dansim]

he used the bridge:D

[rtslave]

You know, I think all markers until 2-3 years a go chopped alot, I'm not real sure but there wasn't any marker that had any soft touch bolt or any kind of sensing eyes, the problem was trying to shoot to fast, heck I remember just 3-4 years a go 9vt. revvys were sweet; remember when shockers had some type of air assisted feeding, and alot of high end markers now chop alot if you don't feed it fast enough. I just think the whole blender thing was blown way out of perportion and in AGD's case alot had to do with the old school RT's, and don't flame me for spelling or grammer this isn't a term paper.

[silentdeath55]

Yeah, Brian at PMI is the man. I had a problem with my comp. air tank so I called them up. Brian sent me a new o-ring I needed. That didn't work so I called again, and they sent me another o-ring and valve pin. They even offered to talk me through the repair step-by-step.
AGD knows how to run a business. They may not be making as much money as some of the other companies, buy almost all of their customers are happy with their products, I know I sure am. Keep it up TK and the rest of the AGD crew.