Muscle Car Guys : 2004 GTO

[CoFFeY[NiTrO]]

http://www.pontiac.com/gto/360.jsp?brand=gto&pagename=models_prices&Location=HNav


(Has this been posted yet?)

[AssassN]

At the Barret Jackson (sp?) auction they had the new one for sale. Nice car, many much horses.

[Twon]

it's basicly a Dodge Avenger with the front of a Grand Am and the back of a Nissan Sentra.

Unoriginal.

Twon

[Person]

Note the bigger engine and significantly less suck.

BTW: they dont make muscle cars anymore.

[PyRo]

Thats not a muscle car.
The days of the muscle cars are over :(

[Gotenks]

The GTO is has a great formula, and I think it will be an important car for GM.

I am pretty much a Honda Loyalist, and I would really consider buying the new GTO, it is a good car.

[OfficerGoat]

Originally posted by PyRo
Thats not a muscle car.


I know ... its faster :D

Personaly I'm disapointed that the motors are identical to the old Fbody setup... the 30 hp gain is simply stating the rating closer to its true value. But still expect to see these cars turining 330ish RWHP after they run in at about 2000 miles.

Nice car... but I think I am gonna save my pennys and pick up a vette instead when I get around to picking up my next car.

[sps16]

what the hell is that?!? its like they made up a new car and called it a GTO

[Mango]

$
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That is EXACTLY what they did. The GTO was a reflection of the econo-boxes of thier day. You have to look in retrospect to what the purpose of a "muscle car" was. It was a suped up version of a much more affordable daily driver. To blast this new GTO for "not being a GTO" is brash to say the least. It is not a "GTO" in the sense that its not 30-40 years old. But it IS a GTO in the sense that it is a reflection of pontiacs current cars, the Grand Am, Grand Prix, etc. So be realistic here. It carries the nameplate and it carries an LS1 motor pumping 300 horsepower, a trick tuned suspension, RWD and great brakes/suspension. All for around $30 grand.

[Person]

Uhh SPS16 they didnt really make a new car, but they certainly are calling it a GTO and if you feel its significantly different in body style then their current automobiles then congratulations.

A musclecar is a standard 2 door coupe that people decided to try and put the biggest engine they could jam under the hood in the car.

An original GTO was the Pontiac Le Mans in basically an updated trim, bigger engine, updated uhmm...stickers! lol

A current GTO doesnt have an exact 100 conterpart like the older goats did, it looks basically like a 2 door bonneville with a bit bigger of an engine.

so what? The only muscle cars id have to say are the dodge viper and the corvette, thats all thats left.

[logamus]

ahhhh, its not all that great buddy. just stick with the 05 stang and life will be lovely.

[Lohman446]

Originally posted by logamus
ahhhh, its not all that great buddy. just stick with the 05 stang and life will be lovely.

Right up to the point you remember your driving a Ford at least

Don't flame me to hard, I have a Taurus around her somewhere - I think its under that snow drift

[Rooster]

Its sticks to the muscle car formula, however the days of muscle cars are long gone. Far too many foriegn, and some domestic car makers are getting so much more power out of smaller, lighter cars. The great thing out muscle cars was that fact that a basically stock car could go out and compete with the quickest drag cars of the day. Thats not the case anymore.

I'm not really impressed, its a fast car in a older body style, but so are alot of cars. For the money, I'd rather buy a restored car.

[AssassN]

Originally posted by OfficerGoat


I know ... its faster :D

Personaly I'm disapointed that the motors are identical to the old Fbody setup... the 30 hp gain is simply stating the rating closer to its true value. But still expect to see these cars turining 330ish RWHP after they run in at about 2000 miles.

Nice car... but I think I am gonna save my pennys and pick up a vette instead when I get around to picking up my next car.

Ugh, are you having a midlife crisis? To me vettes are for rich people that know nothing about cars or people having a midlife crisis. Unless you get like a stingray, those are nice.

[PyRo]

I don't like vettes to much. They arn't that fast compared to alot of other cars, put 2k into a nice Ls1 fbody and you can beat the vettes all day. There are also so many of them around. Get a nice old mopar, or if you must GM.

[Mango]

Originally posted by PyRo
I don't like vettes to much. They arn't that fast compared to alot of other cars, put 2k into a nice Ls1 fbody and you can beat the vettes all day. There are also so many of them around. Get a nice old mopar, or if you must GM.


Oh man....must....resist....arrgggg.....


Ok listen, how can you compare a MODDED LS1 to a STOCK Corvette!??! BE REALISTIC for crying out loud. Ok lets compare an F-body to a Corvette. One car is a good straight line racer, the other is a WORLD CLASS performance touring car that is ALSO a great straight line racer. Put 2K into the same year, ANY YEAR corvette and thier performance numbers will be almost equal if not in the corvettes favor every time.

[AssassN]

Originally posted by SprayingMango



Oh man....must....resist....arrgggg.....


Ok listen, how can you compare a MODDED LS1 to a STOCK Corvette!??! BE REALISTIC for crying out loud. Ok lets compare an F-body to a Corvette. One car is a good straight line racer, the other is a WORLD CLASS performance touring car that is ALSO a great straight line racer. Put 2K into the same year, ANY YEAR corvette and thier performance numbers will be almost equal if not in the corvettes favor every time.

But you still haven't solved the problem of it being a Vette.

[pputkowski]

errr....guys, it's still a Pontiac

[OfficerGoat]

Originally posted by AssassN


Ugh, are you having a midlife crisis? To me vettes are for rich people that know nothing about cars or people having a midlife crisis. Unless you get like a stingray, those are nice.

Hmmm... yes I am having a crisis... right now I am working on purchasing a house so the fastest car I own right now only turns low 13s down the strip and its for sale. So that will leave me with one 13 second convertable... and a beater for the time being. :)

The whole "Its still a Vette" comment proves to me that your an idiot. Personaly I could care less if they called it a freakin pinto. I'm looking for a car that I can drive to work, to california to visit family etc and yet turn around the next weekend and put it on the track... no not the dragstrip but the track.. you know where the corners are. You name me one new car that will meet the above criteria and then take a Vette out on the track for the price....

[Mango]

Originally posted by AssassN


But you still haven't solved the problem of it being a Vette.

What problem is that specifically? That its a performance car that can outperform ANYTHING in its price range? That it competes with Ferraris and Porches almost twice its price? That it is a true American sports car and has a long and proud heritage of being a performance automobile? :confused: Why not back up your weak arguments with some facts? If you dont like them then just say you don't but please don't try and attack it with weak empty statements.

[PyRo]

Originally posted by SprayingMango
Put 2K into the same year, ANY YEAR corvette and thier performance numbers will be almost equal if not in the corvettes favor every time.

Not true, alot of older vettes couldn't keep up with a stock camaro SS probably even with 2k in mods.
Some years I think they were rated at 185hp, my 91RS the POS that it is has a chance against that

[PyRo]

Originally posted by OfficerGoat

The whole "Its still a Vette" comment proves to me that your an idiot. Personaly I could care less if they called it a freakin pinto. I'm looking for a car that I can drive to work, to california to visit family etc and yet turn around the next weekend and put it on the track... no not the dragstrip but the track.. you know where the corners are. You name me one new car that will meet the above criteria and then take a Vette out on the track for the price....

A base corvette goes for $44,500 making 350HP, the Z06 starts at $52,385 making 405HP.
Now that I have $45,000 to play around with what would I do? I would buy a car anywhere from $4k up to 10k and put the rest of the money into putting the rest of the money into modifying the car. Your telling me for 35-40 thousand in modifications you cannot build a car thats faster and out handles a vette while still being streetable?

[WickeDKlowN]

Originally posted by SprayingMango


What problem is that specifically? That its a performance car that can outperform ANYTHING in its price range? That it competes with Ferraris and Porches almost twice its price? That it is a true American sports car and has a long and proud heritage of being a performance automobile? :confused: Why not back up your weak arguments with some facts? If you dont like them then just say you don't but please don't try and attack it with weak empty statements.
But they're just so... so... FUGLY!

[Mango]

Ok Pyro, lets compare FACTS shall we:

The weakest year for the Corvette was invariably the 1984 Crossfire injection. Every Corvette nut (like myself) knows this to be true. Ok lets look at some NUMBERS:

1984 Camaro Specs and engine options:

1984 Power Teams



RPO
Config
Bhp @ rpm
Torque @ rpm
Induction
C/R
CID/liters
Applications

LQ9
Ohv 4
92 @ 4000
134 @ 2800
TBI
9.0:1
151/2.5
SC*

LC1
Ohv V6
107 @ 4800
145 @ 2100
2-bbl.
8.5:1
173/2.8
B*,SC

LG4
Ohv V8
150 @ 4000
240 @ 2400
4-bbl.
8.6:1
305/5.0
Z*

L69/HO
Ohv V8
190 @ 4800
240 @ 3200
4-bbl.
9.5:1
305/5.0
Z



______________________________________

Now lets look at the Corvetts options for the same year:
FACTORY BASE PRICE- $23,360
PRODUCTION TOTAL- 51,547
CURB WEIGHT lbs- 3088
ENGINE DATA
Displacement- 350 cubic inch V-8
Compression Ratio- 9 to 1
Horsepower- 205
Torque lbs-ft- 290
Fuel Injection- Crossfire
TRANSMISSION- 4+3 speed manual standard. 4 speed automatic
available at no cost.
CHASSIS FEATURES
Wheelbase- 96.2 inches
Overall length- 176.5 inches
Height- 46.7 inches
Width- 71.0 inches
Front Tread- 59.6 inches
Rear Tread- 60.4 inches
Wheel size- 15X8
Tires- 215-65-15 standard and 255-50-16 Gatorbacks optional


:eek: :D

[Mango]

Originally posted by PyRo


A base corvette goes for $44,500 making 350HP, the Z06 starts at $52,385 making 405HP.
Now that I have $45,000 to play around with what would I do? I would buy a car anywhere from $4k up to 10k and put the rest of the money into putting the rest of the money into modifying the car. Your telling me for 35-40 thousand in modifications you cannot build a car thats faster and out handles a vette while still being streetable?


omfg, you are comparing a modded CUSTOM car to a STOCK car. I am not doing so. I am comparing STOCK for STOCK. How can you even ARGUE that fact in a sane manner. Obviously anyone can build a custom car for that much. Sheesh man...

[PyRo]

Originally posted by OfficerGoat
The whole "Its still a Vette" comment proves to me that your an idiot. Personaly I could care less if they called it a freakin pinto. I'm looking for a car that I can drive to work, to california to visit family etc and yet turn around the next weekend and put it on the track... no not the dragstrip but the track.. you know where the corners are. You name me one new car that will meet the above criteria and then take a Vette out on the track for the price....

Someone please show me where in here he says a "factory car". Nothing in there says I cannot show come up with a modified car that meets his criteria better than the vette.

[PyRo]

Alright i'm wrong my car doesn't have a chance against the 84 vette (yet) unless the thing is in very bad shape.

Now, why are we comparing the 84 corvette and camaro? Not sure why that came up, there are other cars made to compete with the vette other than the camaro I just used an Ls1 as an example. Actually my last sentence is incorrect. The camaro wasn't made to compete with the corvette. Of course if you compare a camaro and a corvette of any year the vette is more powerfull. Why the hell would they make a camaro have the same or more power and loose sales on the corvette?

[Mango]

Originally posted by PyRo


Someone please show me where in here he says a "factory car". Nothing in there says I cannot show come up with a modified car that meets his criteria better than the vette.


Nice deletion there. I should have quoted your origional post but I'll leave it at that. I was working off of your statements not his post.


Originally posted by PyRo


lets compare a 2000 Z28 to that 1984 Corvette


Yeah lets compare a 1918 Ford to a 2001 Corvette while we're at it. Man...I am done with this thread. I might as well go bang my head against a brick wall.


Originally posted by PyRo


Your telling me for 35-40 thousand in modifications you cannot build a car thats faster and out handles a vette while still being streetable?

No, you said that.


Originally posted by PyRo


Not true, alot of older vettes couldn't keep up with a stock camaro SS probably even with 2k in mods.

I've already proved my point, I'm comparing year for year. Nuff said.

[Mango]

Originally posted by PyRo
Now, why are we comparing the 84 corvette and camaro? Not sure why that came up,



Originally posted by PyRo
Not true, alot of older vettes couldn't keep up with a stock camaro SS probably even with 2k in mods.


:D

[PyRo]

Originally posted by SprayingMango
omfg, you are comparing a modded CUSTOM car to a STOCK car. I am not doing so. I am comparing STOCK for STOCK. How can you even ARGUE that fact in a sane manner. Obviously anyone can build a custom car for that much. Sheesh man...

Actually, I guess we agree. From the factory the corvette is the best preforming car in its price range (actually I cannot think of any other cars in the price range build for performance). But for the same cost you can build a better preforming custom car. I just have a whole list of cars I would spend that kind of money on before a corvette.

[AssassN]

I am diehard anti-vette and your diehard vette. We will never solve anything. Enjoy your car I'll enjoy mine.

[Mango]

Originally posted by AssassN
I am diehard anti-vette and your diehard vette. We will never solve anything. Enjoy your car I'll enjoy mine.



See you in my rearview mirror!! :cool: ;)

[AssassN]

Originally posted by SprayingMango




See you in my rearview mirror!! :cool: ;)

Right now my car is a 95 Sentra so I'll be far enough behind that you wont see me. :( ;)

[PyRo]

Ok a 1918 ford vs an 01 vette is a little differant that an 84 vs a 00.

I thought the corvette could outpreform ANYTHING in its price range? I would say you could pick up an 84 vette and a late 80's early 90's camaro, mustang, or a whole bunch of other cars that could beat that vette. Same price range...

As I said of course the corvette is faster than the camaro chevy would have to be really stupid to make the camaro faster.

Again, you never said you were comparing Stock - Stock in your first arguments.

Please tell me what I deleted, anything I deleted was written again just worded better.


Any nothing to do with the discussion, but. In my opinion is much cooler to have a one of a kind modified car than a corvette which they make how many of?

[AssassN]

Originally posted by AssassN
I am diehard anti-vette and your diehard vette. We will never solve anything. Enjoy your car I'll enjoy mine.

I take that back. I like older Vettes and the custom Vettes they had at Barret Jackson (sp?).

There are so many normal Vettes where I live that it's just annoying.

[Mango]

Originally posted by PyRo
Ok a 1918 ford vs an 01 vette is a little differant that an 84 vs a 00.

I thought the corvette could outpreform ANYTHING in its price range? I would say you could pick up an 84 vette and a late 80's early 90's camaro, mustang, or a whole bunch of other cars that could beat that vette. Same price range...

As I said of course the corvette is faster than the camaro chevy would have to be really stupid to make the camaro faster.

Again, you never said you were comparing Stock - Stock in your first arguments.

Please tell me what I deleted, anything I deleted was written again just worded better.


Any nothing to do with the discussion, but. In my opinion is much cooler to have a one of a kind modified car than a corvette which they make how many of?


I can dig one of a kinds. I like them too! As far as your deletion I was referring to this:



Originally posted by PyRo
lets compare a 2000 Z28 to that 1984 Corvette

So I was just being sarcastic in saying a 1918 to a 2001 or whatever.
:p

And I was referring to stock vs. stock same year.

My favorite year is of course ours:

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/jtrussell7/vette.JPG

In 67 they almost were equal in power, depending on options/models. I think we all can agree on one thing, fast cars rule! :D

[AssassN]

Originally posted by SprayingMango
In 67 they almost were equal in power, depending on options/models. I think we all can agree on one thing, fast cars rule! :D

Agreed.

[Mateo]

Back on topic before the hijack, the new GTO(or Bonnevile coupe is more fitting) is, undoubtedly, still a Pontiac. They all have that nostril looking grill in the front which is just ugly. Now Im not doubting the LS1, but there are far more capable cars out there in that price range.

Pontiac in general their previous Grand Am's and Prix's tailights, lamps, body ribbing, AHHH I just can't stand Pontiac! Why people buy them I don't know. They have to be the worst designed cars cosmetically. The only Pontiac I would ever EVER consider buying would be one of the late 60s, early 70s TransAm or was given to me for free. Then I would proceed selling the free car and getting something else.

Im sorry GM has always never been that innovational. The only thing lately that they have originally developed is the SSR or whatever that wannabe Camino is. The new 'Vette, looks like a cross of a NSX front with a 360 Modena back, nothing inspiring. The new Aveo, looks like a softer looking 4-door Honda SiR, again nothing new. Malibu? Just plain ugly. GM is good at making one thing, trucks and SUV's.

[Flamebo]

This car is the biggest disappointment to muscle car fans in history. It's hideous, and doesn't deserve the name. I'd rather drive the new Solstice, but even that is a disappointment since for production they've gone to a dual overhead cam 4-banger rather than the LS2 they had in the early concept. The Solstice with an LS2 would be a real modern musclecar, in my opinion.

[OfficerGoat]

Fist and formost.... Assasin... My appologies for Calling you an idiot ... that was a bit over the top.

Here is where I stand. I don't consider myself a diehard vette fan. I owned a 87 .. that car was flat out SLOW!!!!.

I'm a sports car fan. If I had the cash I would have a garage full of things that most folks have proboly never heared of. Like a 917 mk30 :D

At this point in my life I have owned alot of cars A 280z 2 Vettes, 2 Trans Ams, 2formualas a Fiat(by in far the fastest car I have ever owned..heh), and several others that I don't care to mention. I would love to go get a 911 or a NSX .... although for that money the 911 would defiantly be the chice.. but its just not in my price range at the moment.

Its all about bang for the buck in my book... and the C6 represents alot of bang for those bucks.. but also alot of compromises too. Sure I could build something faster for less... would I want to drive around town in it... nope.

[AssassN]

Originally posted by OfficerGoat
Fist and formost.... Assasin... My appologies for Calling you an idiot ... that was a bit over the top.

Here is where I stand. I don't consider myself a diehard vette fan. I owned a 87 .. that car was flat out SLOW!!!!.

I'm a sports car fan. If I had the cash I would have a garage full of things that most folks have proboly never heared of. Like a 917 mk30 :D

At this point in my life I have owned alot of cars A 280z 2 Vettes, 2 Trans Ams, 2formualas a Fiat(by in far the fastest car I have ever owned..heh), and several others that I don't care to mention. I would love to go get a 911 or a NSX .... although for that money the 911 would defiantly be the chice.. but its just not in my price range at the moment.

Its all about bang for the buck in my book... and the C6 represents alot of bang for those bucks.. but also alot of compromises too. Sure I could build something faster for less... would I want to drive around town in it... nope.

Thanks for the appology. People say alot of stuff online they don't really mean or something that comes out the wrong way. Insults over the internet don't really affect me. As for bang for the buck, I agree Vettes are a great bang for the buck car. I just reallllllllllly don't like them.

Anyway, gunna exploit AO as my personal image hosting space.

And of course I forget the picture.