The truth about LVL7...

[GT]

SO last sunday I went to play here in houston. New feild pretty cool place although it was dam cold and wet. Little side note: the first few seconds of the first game I manged to find the feilds lake right under the 'crack pipe' on the 40', so now I am wet, muddy and cold.

Back on topic: My emag was with BradAGD and I didnt want to play with my angel. Just not a big angel fan anymore. SO I decided to bust out my classic mag project. Mind you the only real upgrades it has is a 2x benchmark frame.

Here is the setup I ran all day: Classic p/f mag w/o a forgrip with a 6 y/o max flow, Carbon 32* barrel, and rico 2k lcd.

I did not chop once the whole day, shot about a case.

I guess the confusing part is for classic owners, why do you need level 10? I have been on this board for about two years now and i have never understand why lvl 10 was such a big deal. When i started playing in '99 it was rare for me to chop using any of my lvl7 mags. The question is where and how were all these mag users choping?

[shartley]

Good question! I have always maintained that I have chopped seldom to never with the L7.

Do I have LX? You bet! (Thanks Tuna) But it still has not made its way into my marker. It is sitting on a shelf in my office. That shows that I was not in any rush to put it in to correct any “problems” I has with chopping…. I also got busy with other things and never got around to putting it in. ooooops

I say that if people HAVE a chopping problem, they should go ahead and put in the LX. But if they don’t, LEAVE IT ALONE! ;) It is ain’t broke, don’t fix it….. that is unless you just WANT to have it. It is up to the user.

[M-a-s-sDriver]

You shoot slow, and you don't shoot brittle paint.
Lvl 10 protects you from iffy paint and trigger mistakes.
I have put untold thousands of rounds through both LVL 7 and LVL 10. Although I was never really a paint breaker, sometimes the bad stuff would haunt me all day.
LVL 10 absolutly solved that problem. I'm still tuning my current gun, but my last mag literally NEVER had a break in in it from the freak back to the gun. That's shooting about 50-60 cases of paint through it. And shooting extremely high bps, and sometimes with Hellfire paint or that GAP crap.
I am SOLD.
Brent.

[Cryer]

I think the problems that LX were meant to remedy were involed mainly with Emags and high ROF. that or short stroking.
I never chopped a ball with the L7 I had, either.

[GT]

Originally posted by M-a-s-sDriver
You shoot slow, and you don't shoot brittle paint.

I would be very surpised on a legal setup if guys running a classic valve can shoot over 12bps.

[athomas]

I didn't have a chop problem on my classic either. The odd time I would chop if I was in a tournament speedball game though. I guess the adrenaline is up and sometimes you shoot when the gun is tilted at some weird angle.

I used to chop all the time once I got my emag. The level 10 solved that. I haven't chopped since.

[TheDoveDecends]

when i get goin.. its like a slushe coming out of my barrel. i chop like mad if i dont control my speed. ive been forced to shoot about 5bps so i dont chop. otherwise.. i do chop quite a bit. Soon to have a lvl 10 though hopefully.

[madmatt151]

It all started with the classic RT. Before that as I remeber, playing over 10 years, the mags were considered great guns. THen the RT came out and they shot super fast, but chopped like crazy. Those I believe are what gve the mag a rep for chopping. Those are what the level 10's were for. EMags also. My $.02

[personman]

The LX takes away a hell of alot of recoil, and blowback if I'm not mistaken. :)
I never really needed it with my classic mag, but I got it anyway, and I was happy with it :)

[abarnhar]

Originally posted by M-a-s-sDriver
Lvl 10 protects you from iffy paint and trigger mistakes.I had a friend with a classic who would brutalize paint everytime he played. He went to the LX and didn't have anymore problems.

In retrospect, I had to do all the techincal work on his gun (including installing the LX) and he had a difficult time timing his trigger pulls correctly. When I got my Classic RT, the first thing that went on was a LX, because of my friend's experience. Maybe I can/could do without it... but it's still nice to have that assurance.

[FooTemps]

I never had problems with lvl7... Then again I am good with a mag trigger. 8bps on single trigger for a 10 round burst no chops. :)

[Crighton]

Still using a level 7 minimag. No need to upgrade it. I've never chopped a ball with it yet. But I also don't shoot brittle paint with it ether.

[M-a-s-sDriver]

In the "Good 'ol Days" all the guns chopped.
My opinion is that it has always been a feed problem. I personally think the HALO, in combination with some sort of physical anti-chop system (not eyes) is the best paintball invention in the world.
Classics can be shot at very high bps, just not stock. Installing a Z-valve makes them blazing quick, with reactivity. Having said that, I do not think that 12 bps is the magic number for chopping, using a rev. I believe it is more like 9 or 10. Not withstanding any feed rate numbers, I am convinced the rev is the cause for most ball chopping. Switching to a better loader solves most of the problem. My LVL 10 will start stuttering ANYTIME I shoot a rev at fairly high bps. That tells me the rounds are not loaded when I pull the trigger. So the new bolt saves me from chops. If I short stroke, I just get two balls drippling out the barrel, rather than goo. And it will generally shoot paint that nothing else will. In fact, the only reason I carry a swab on the field anymore is in case I have to throw one to somebody..
And one other thing: I shoot a slightly oversize bore so as not to pinch a ball. I never notice any real accuracy problems because of it.
Brent.

[Beemer]

When i started playing in '99 it was rare for me to chop using any of my lvl7 mags. The question is where and how were all these mag users choping?

Where and when? Before faster loaders came out. Back in 90
we could do 12sps no paint out of the box, ask Sandman.
Back then I could shoot all day with no chops if I didnt over shoot the feed or short stroke or have a crap ball hang

I forgot how many times I would rip on the mag on the
range in front of the new guys, half a loader, then say want to try it. Sure they would say, ten shots later shortstroke and a chop. If they werent stroking it they were over shooting it. Same with the fast guys I forgot how many times they would complain, and I would tell them its the feed, slow down a little, then go to the range and empty my loader for them no chops.

Give me HPA and a good loader and Ill take My original Mag not a classic-lvl.5 and rip 12bps all day long

The problem is they never learned how to drive the race car.
Now its all e mode and they still dont have to learn.


edit for oops cant say that word

[Beemer]

Originally posted by gtrsi


I would be very surpised on a legal setup if guys running a classic valve can shoot over 12bps.

A really fast guy.Maybe

[RRfireblade]

Call it what ever you want.I chopped pretty easily before L10,and now,not at all.Simple really.If you don't chop w/ an L7,don't upgrade unless you'd like some peace of mind.I know how fast to shoot to NOT chop w/ an L7 but did I still carry a squeegie? Heck yeah.Do I carry one now? Nope.;)

To each his own.

Jay.

[Dubstar112]

I never had any chopping problems or ball breaks with my lvl 7. Infact I went about 3 full cases of paint with out a single chop or barrel break.

then I sold my mag for some reason... :(


maybe it was the hyperframe and warpfeed combination. :):)

[teufelhunden]

Originally posted by gtrsi


I would be very surpised on a legal setup if guys running a classic valve can shoot over 12bps.


Hyperframe and Booyah allow that.

[RRfireblade]

"Chopping" is not the only reason a L7 may break paint.Either way, L10 cures both reasons.

[dmocratic]

I just dropped three of our 'mags at my "proshop"
for L-10 upgrades, and I'll tell you why:

My wife and I played New Years Day, with our old L-7's:
beautiful weather, fresh "Big Ball", narry a break
and even then it just made my shots curve. It was
our first time using N2 tanks, and our first time
playing PB in years, and we loved it.

However, I wanted my wife to have a lighter marker,
so we got her an X-Valve and a ULE body. So, now
she has an L-10, and I still have an L-7. Played
again two weeks ago: no big difference.

BUT: we played yesterday. It had rained the day
before, and there was light showers for the first
few games we played (woods ball, 14 people).
High humidity, wet trees, and so on. Well, I chopped
those fresh but no longer as dry balls almost every game,
and had sticky paint in my powerfeed; I was forced to
shove each ball down into the chamber with a finger
between each shot, and they hooked of course. But did
my wife have any breaks ? No. Not one.

And that's why I'm upgrading all but one of our
'mags (the backup backup gun :-) to Level 10:
Because I'm not going to stop playing just because
it's wet and muddy, and neither does a Level-10 'mag.

[Kaiser Bob]

The lvl 10 also alllows for things like the ULT, also allowing for things like unbelieveable hyperframe battery life and nicads new frame, mechanical you can walk like an electro. :)

[BajaBoy]

i liked the sound of the Level7, the 10 is alot louder and sharper

[mcveighr]

When I first bought my mag I put at least two cases through before a chop. And it was getting cold out when I got the chop.

[SlartyBartFast]

Originally posted by gtrsi
I would be very surpised on a legal setup if guys running a classic valve can shoot over 12bps.

Unless they're using a force feed hopper or WARP, NOBODY is shooting faster than 13 bps.:p

[SlartyBartFast]

Originally posted by Kaiser Bob
The lvl 10 also alllows for things like the ULT

You don't need lvl 10 to use the ULT.

[Kaiser Bob]

ULT was designed with the operation of lvl 10 in mind and works optimally with lvl 10 installed.

[deathstalker]

I would get 1-2 chops per case with my lvl 7. I only chopped when trying to shoot fast, so it's obviously user error. However, it was definitely worth the upgrade for me, as the 1-2 chops would be frustrating, choosing to occur at just the wrong time.






Hey Slarty, please click the link in my sig for guidelines and then fix yours.

[dyeforever]

the lvl 10 is like car insurance, u never know when ur going get into a car acident (chopage) but it nice to know u have insurance (lvl 10) that will cover u.;)

[sniper1rfa]

i honestly didnt chop much with my L7. But i did, every once in a while, and every once in a while is too much for me. I am a tinkerer to the bone. Even if the problem only crops up once in a blue moon, i will fix it. :)

[Barfly]

Well I can pretty much chop whenever I want with my RTP with the lvl 7. I have the lvl 10 now, but I am to lazy to put it in, because there is still snow everywhere.

[Rumble]

well i got my level 10 because I needed to get a new spacer for my lvl 7. So insead of getting that, i decided to just upgrade the gun with the lvl 10.