Patronism and Racism=2 different things.

[MagMan5446]

Want to know what I saw today? A bloody Arab-American unconcious in front of the store that he works in.

We should punish the people who are responsible, and ONLY those people. Up in Washington, they tried to burn down a mosque. What's up with that? It's like having a "black" church in the middle of Mississippi in the 50's.

I really can't stand racist people.

[shartley]

I agree.

[FaSSt]

It's spelled patriotism.

Perhaps when people can stop thinking of themselves as "______(fill in the blank)-Americans", and are simply "Americans", this kind of thing will stop.

[Arturus]

Ah.. so it's the fault of the people who are being discriminated agianst? That's good, blame the victim.

Just as when women will stop wearing short skirts and revealing clothing, they'll stop being raped... Blame the victim.

I bet you're referring to those who think of themselves as "African Americans", "Asian-Americans", "Mexican Americans" and so on.

But I bet when you weren't thinking of millions who think of themselves as Irish Americans, Italian Americans and of many others of Northern European decent, who still strongly identify themselves with their country of origin; and are proud to have their ancestry.

If you were? Then you have my apologies.

I wonder how many Americans actually see Americans, when people of Asian, Hispanic, and other ethnic decents, than that of anglo-saxons, walk by them on the streets? Even those who proclaim themselves, proudly to be Americans? I bet many, if not the majority, still see the China man, the Mexican, the Cuban... You get the idea.

This post isn't meant to start a flame, or turn into some critical debate, but rather... Hopefully get you to think.

Think of what you wrote... you took the blame out of the people who do discriminate, and pointed the finger at the victim themselves. Sad.

Look around you right now. Turn your television on. People are uniting all around the country. Have they forgotten the color of their skin? I doubt it. Still white. Still black. Have they forgotten their ethnic background? No... people still remember that they're part Irish.. Part Cherokee... part French, of Korean decent. Just that... for a moment, people have set aside most, if not all of their differences; and realized, above all, they're Americans and that the nation as a whole has suffered.

Yesterday, a French woman, mourning together with us in Paris said, "We're all Americans right now."

By the way, I hope for the day we can all just be Americans... I'm sure in many respects, just like the way you do. I pray even more for the day, we'll all stop using the word 'racism'. I don't understand how you can be racist against another human being.

[FaSSt]

When did I "blame the victim?". Had you interpreted what I wrote correctly, you would have understood that I was writing of the distinctions that are perceived to exist among us. And of non-existent distinctions that I believe are unnecesseraly promoted or even created by _______-American labels. And the short-skirt example was just totally (and I am trying to not insult you here) irrelevant and nothing to do with my point.

By the way, I WAS thinking off ALL of the people on your list.

I was not born in this country, but you would never know it from speaking to me, because I actually took the effort to learn the language and the culture. But I don't think of myself as a European-American. That's living in the past, and wrong, I believe.

I am proud of who I am, BUT my background is coincidental, and I obviously have had nothing to do with it. Yes, I am grateful for the life experiences that I have had in other countries, but I have CHOSEN to make the U.S. my home. Moreover, I have actually SWORN to protect it.

Many U.S. born Americans are extremely naive in terms of the rest of the world. This is actually a noble trait. However, at some point people need to realize that being too nice or politically correct CAN and WILL come back and hurt you severely.

Where did you get the idea that I was racist? Or that I thought it was OK to beat up the store clerk? Obviously, it was an idiotic thing to do.

So you say you don't understand how anyone can be racist? That's a problem, because then you don't understand what causes racism. Often factors that have nothing to do with race. I have seen people segment themselves into groups that to the outside observer are indistinguishable, but have some perceived meaning to those within. Objectively, it's idiotic, but it happens. I mean, do you really think that there is enough TRUE difference between Croatians and Serbs, or French and Germans, to actually justify starting a war? I don't, but it happens.

America, for all of its faults, is by far the best country in the world in almost every respect. And unlike most Americans, I actualy have an extensive frame of reference to base this belief on.

It's unfortunate that the only thing many can find to unite Americans is a national tragedy. It should not have to come to that. But artificial distinctions do not help.

[shartley]

FaSSt:
Very good points. I would however point out that many of your comments come across as “I was not born here, and those who were not just care more for this country than those who were.”

Ouch. I have heard this time and again from people. And I fully understand that that is not really what they mean, but it IS how it comes across. I hope you can see that. It would be like telling a Father that he does not love his child as much as its Mother does… simply because she gave it birth.

As for your other points, I fully agree. And I would also like to point out that part of the reason SOME Americans don’t have a full and realistic view of the rest of the world is simply because the US is SO DARN BIG. In Europe you can travel through several COUNTRIES in one day of casual driving.. but here in the states, you may not even LEAVE the state you started in.

I had a close friend who was a First Sgt. in the German Navy (or actually its equivalent), and he said that when he was growing up he hated Americans. I asked him why. He told me that he didn’t like the way Americans thought they owned the World. I then asked him why he changed his mind. He told me it was because he visited the United States and saw something that shocked him…. He said “They DO own the World!” This was of course in a figurative manner. The US is so big and contains much of the rest of the world within its borders.

How the world sees the US and how the US sees the World, can easily be argued with the same point. Go and actually SEE for yourself. In most cases, BOTH are a bit off base. And I would advise anyone on both sides to actually experience the other, before passing either judgment, or condescension on the other.

Thanks.

[Peanut The Paintballer]

We have a few muslims/arabs...people of middle eastern decent in my school. Man they are discriminated against EVERYDAY now. People look at them, push them out of the way, ask them to go socialize elsewhere. etc... It really aggrovates me to see this. I hope something is done soon in my school before someone gets hurt.

[FaSSt]

shartley,

I see what you mean. That's not what I meant. Just that I think that with the exception of some Americans in the US Armed Forces, it's very hard for the average American to understand just HOW much better life is here than anywhere else.

I just pains me when I hear Americans denigrate their own country.

I fully agree that discrimination, to put it plainly, sucks in any form.

[Restola]

sadly for the lowest people on the intellectual scale in america only time will stop their prejudice. when was the last time you saw someone ask a japanese-american to leave? the shock will wear off. america will get its revenge and the guilty will be brought to justice. i imagine several months after that we should see a return to normality.

[Arturus]

FaSSt - As I said, if you meant all people, then you have my apologies.

I also, never said you were racist.

I also, never wrote that I didn't understand the cause and direction of racism. I said that in truth, it's not possible to be 'racist'. Prejudice, yes. Discriminate and judge others based ethnicity, religion, nationality, and so forth, yes.

And I never thought you were okay with beating up store clerks. :)

I'm sure you can point to my post and direct my attention to it, but chances are, you then misinterpreted my post.

Read my entire post again please. Especially the part about how people cannot be racist. People cannot label any group of people as if they were another race.

Please... please read it again, because I know you did misunderstand my meaning in my reference to the word 'racism', by what your reaction was.

We're all human beings. One race. To be 'racist' against another human being? Think on it. Reason I prayed for a day, when that word would no longer be in use. For many reasons.

And do forgive me once more, if I'm not inclined to go in-depth with my posts. If you do a search on me, you'll notice I'm extremely lazy.

And just incase, I have no malice towards you.. not one bit. Oh and I'm not trying to insult you with my posts. I realize, I can be sounding rather pompous at the moment... but well.. I'm just too tired to do.. anything at all right now?

:(

And yes, I did understand all your points and agree with Shartley they were good ones. I also did misintreprete your post, so once again my apologies.

Edit - Had to add this.. I'm probably delirious at the moment. So here ya go!

Group HUG

Yes another edit: I'm exremely tired, and not sure what's wrong at the moment.. can barely keep my eyes open, but you do have my sincere apologies. The more I read your second post, well.. it's a good reaction. Thanks for clarifying your first post for me. :p

[FaSSt]

That's cool, I know what you meant.

Let's hope that everyting turns out well.

[gmag]

Hurting people of Arab descent is not going to solve anything. I don't know why racists think the way they do.......