The Badger - The Australian Auto-Mag Clone

[Jack & Coke]

For your reading enjoyment...

From:

http://paintmagazine.com/npaint2/badger.shtml

http://www.paintmagazine.com/wpaint2/badger1.shtml

http://www.paintmagazine.com/wpaint2/badger2.shtml

http://www.paintmagazine.com/wpaint2/badger3.shtml

Please click on the above links for the whole story... Below are a few selected clips and pics of Mike Wallis' articles regarding the developement of the Aussie Mag.


Published May 1996 by Mike Wallis

...As you all are no doubt aware Australia is a fairly small market for paintball equipment. In the past very little has been manufactured locally. The only items being fill stations, barrel plugs, vests and a few small gun parts.

Since the ban on the importation of semi-auto paintball guns there has developed a big demand for this type particularly for competition use. The value of those guns that arrived prior to D-day has risen in some cases to ridiculous levels.

As for the import regulations, well they suck to put it politely. You and I know that a baseball bat is more dangerous than a paintball gun. Anyway, enough of that and on with the story.

After the ban, rumours spread like wildfire about locally designed paintball guns. If they had all eventuated we'd be up to our eyeballs in the things...

-clip-

http://www.paintmagazine.com/wpaint2/perentie.gif

The method of operation is similar to the Auto-Mag. The major difference being that this gun has no gas regulator to adjust velocity. It relies on a restricting screw in the bolt to regulate the gas flow. The primary or maximum velocity being determined by the size of the gas chamber behind the bolt...

-clip-

http://paintmagazine.com/npaint2/bruce_darren_sm.jpg
Darren (left) and Bruce

http://paintmagazine.com/npaint2/badger_cutaway_sm.gif
Schematic of the Badger

http://paintmagazine.com/npaint2/proto_badger1_sm.gif
The Original Badger Prototype

I saw that second prototype in late 1993 and wrote it up for the October edition of Paintballer. It featured only three moving parts, the bolt, trigger and the pin in the on/off valve assembly. Unlike the AutoMag, early Badgers were designed to operate at full bottle pressure and had no regulator. I remember being impressed with the rugged simplicity of that prototype with its absence of external gas lines or openings. It was a complete marker in every way and certainly looked ready for production. A few weeks later during the photo shoot, over 500 rounds were put through it by the referees at ML Skirmish with very few problems.

-clip-

http://paintmagazine.com/npaint2/bruce_badger1_sm.jpg
Bruce with an early Rental Model

http://paintmagazine.com/npaint2/badger_parts1_sm.jpg
Parts in the Making

http://paintmagazine.com/npaint2/red_badgers1_sm.jpg
Some of the 100 Badgers at Skirmish Adventures

http://paintmagazine.com/npaint2/bruce1_sm.jpg
Bruce with my first Custom Badger

http://paintmagazine.com/npaint2/late_rental_sm.jpg
Late Model Die Cast Frame LP Badger with Regulator in Grey

http://paintmagazine.com/npaint2/viper1_sm.jpg
The Double Barrel Viper

[lord1234]

hahaha
i smell a lawsuit.

[member#10,261]

Its like the twilight zone, I'm freakin out man.

[Mindflux]

Originally posted by lord1234
hahaha
i smell a lawsuit.

Pft.

These things have been around since 1993. I'm sure TK has known about them for some time. He may have (or not) made an arrangement with these guys to not allow export to the USA for reasons such as copyright. I doubt TK would SUE someone over this, but I don't know him very well either (he doesn't seem to be that type).

[FalconGuy016]

Its like the ban put the paintball industry back 10 years there and its starting over

[1stdeadeye]

Can you say licensing fees?

Tom can now!:D

Makes you wonder is some Badger forum in Aussie land is going to villify Tom like everyone did to Smart Parts here in the USA.:confused:

[MicroMiniMe]

Badgers?
We don't need no stinkin' BADGERS.

So back to the semi-recent SP thread, would this be a reverse engineered Mag?

[Vendetta]

Read the article. One guy left paintball a long time ago, and the other killed himself:mad:

[melster]

lawsuit? The guy is DEAD. You gonna sue him for a couple of left over maggots? I bet even the maggots have turned to dust already too. :)

Besides, they made all of 300 markers! That's not a lot of coin there.

[Cryer]

In the first part of the article, it tells of how importing markers to Australia was prohibited, so AGD didnt have a market down there anyways. Nobody did, really. Australia was completely isolated in the paintball marketplace

[Jack & Coke]

Yeah, the article was kinda sad in the end (Bruce killed himself).

I found these articles interesting in a historical sort of way since they are connected to automag by design similarities.

[RRfireblade]

That's wasn't the only Mag interpretation and it won't be the last.;)

Wait till you see the new Advent from OTB paintball,you guys are gonna crap your pants.

Desert Fox for those who haven't seen it before......
http://www.icdpaintball.com/Support/Desertfox/images/fox-schematic.gif


http://www.icdpaintball.com/products/desertfox/Images/fox14-a.gif


British design I don't think ever went anywhere....
http://www.gizmology.net/images/pbm_00.gif

[rkjunior303]

someone should make a AGD parts version of that VIPER... lol

[Jack & Coke]

RRfireblade,

what do you know about the Advent from OTB?

Have you seen it?

In currious...

:)

Any links?

thanks

[RRfireblade]

Originally posted by Jack & Coke
RRfireblade,

what do you know about the Advent from OTB?

Have you seen it?

In currious...

:)

Any links?

thanks

There not letting out much info. I've seen glimpses and it's a Automag.;) The only difference is they're actuating the on/off pnuematically instead of with a "pin" and it's in a stacked tube looking body.Looks like an Imp overall.

Jay.

[Jack & Coke]

Very interesting...

Lvl10 compatible?

No short-stroking (Chuff chuff)?

All mechanical?

Electro versions?

Sounds tasty!:D

http://www.uaa.alaska.edu/jpc/wolfbytes2/joy/toy.jpg

[RRfireblade]

Originally posted by Jack & Coke
Very interesting...

Lvl10 compatible?

No short-stroking (Chuff chuff)?

All mechanical?

Electro versions?

Sounds tasty!:D

http://www.uaa.alaska.edu/jpc/wolfbytes2/joy/toy.jpg

Supposedly all delrin internals,they've been experimenting with "soft" bolt technology,so maybe that.

Electro only I believe.

http://www.offthebreak.com/images/advent.jpg

If you believe the Hype,the fully milled version is supposed to way around 1 lb.Cylce at 30+bps and run at very low pressures w/ very high efficency.

Sound to good to be true but if it didn't they wouldn't call it "Hype".;)

[Thordic]

the advent is hands down the lightest gun I've ever picked up.

Its so light it feels like a toy.

Whether thats a good or a bad thing remains to be seen. Will they be more prone to breakage? Perhaps.

OTB knows what they are doing though, I may have to pick up an Advent when they come out.

[WARPED1]

Very cool, I like it. AGD won't sue because they've been on the soapbox saying how evil it is for one paintball company to patent something so others can't develop things.

[RRfireblade]

Originally posted by Thordic
the advent is hands down the lightest gun I've ever picked up.

Its so light it feels like a toy.

Whether thats a good or a bad thing remains to be seen. Will they be more prone to breakage? Perhaps.

OTB knows what they are doing though, I may have to pick up an Advent when they come out.

Yup,seems pretty cool,guess we'll see if they ever release it.

Here's a better pic.....
http://www.whydoyouwork.com/Work/Print/OTB/Advent_Trifold_back.jpg

[vf-xx]

Here's some more Badgers! (http://badgerbadgerbadger.com/)

[fallout11]

The ICD Desert Fox was actually a very good gun, as you might imagine.

Unfortunately, like so many other gun from the past, it didn't sell well. ICD still sells parts for them, though, I think.

[gibby]

Originally posted by vf-xx
Here's some more Badgers! (http://badgerbadgerbadger.com/)
LOL! About time! :p

[einhander619]

What about this one?
|
|
|
\ /
V

[~WarpedRT#2~]

looks like an impulse/ir3.

[melster]

"1.5 lbs without barrel and regulator"

Wow. So we're talking grip frame and body here. My ULE RTP weighs 1.5 lbs without the barrel, but WITH the regulator.

Of course, that's without the foregrip and sight rail, but who keeps those on anyway? ;)

[Thordic]

Its 1.3 lbs, and I doubt your mag weighs 20.8 ounces.

[FutureMagOwner]

and my emag weighed in at 2 pounds with a barrel battery pack and drop foreward on it...

[WARPED1]

Originally posted by melster
"1.5 lbs without barrel and regulator"
03 Shockers are 1 pound 14 ounces without tank or hopper.:D

[Thordic]

Which is heavier than an Advent coming in at 1 lb 5 ounces.

When you pick up an Advent, you barely know its in your hands. Its ridiculously light. 10 ounces may not seem like much, but it makes a big difference.

[WARPED1]

Any clue on release dates for the Advent?

[nerobro]

Wow... People haven't mentioned the "patriot" by name yet. That was the brittish automag CLONE. Just beucase a gun shares the same operating principal doesn't necessarily mean it's a clone.

Angels, timmys, impulses, vikings, tribals, and bk2k's are all ram driven hammer type guns. They are all different. they take different approaches to stiction control. They take different approaches to regulator placement. They are dimentionally different.

Or.. if you'd like a mechanical gun analogy. The Typhoon, soverign, cocker, and blazer are all just as simmilar to each other as the badger is to an automag. :-)

Or if you want a fairly complete list of blowforward guns, we have the sidekick semi, the equalizer, the badger, the desert fox, the patriot, and the mag.

On a final note, pattents tend not to hold much weight internationally. AGD took care of the patriot problem by beating them at their own game. AGD sold their gun cheaper.

[Prairie]

As someone who has seen the inside of the advent...as well as heard tom kaye talk to josh gore at the IAO.

All things between OTB and AGD are good...for the privacy of both parties, I won't say much more on the discussion.


And yes, the advent will rock.

[MayAMonkeyBeYourPinata]

Correct me if I am wrong, but even if AGD wanted to sue the maker of this marker could they.

I mean if AGD even has a patent ( not sure if they do) another company could still use that design as long as they were not in the US or imported products to the US.

[DementedRabbit]

Originally posted by MayAMonkeyBeYourPinata
Correct me if I am wrong, but even if AGD wanted to sue the maker of this marker could they.


Kinda moot considering the designer of this marker has kinda left the mortal plane.

[magman109]

Earlier in this thread someone said the advent weighs 1.5 lbs. . .and then someone said its lighter cause it weighs 1lb, 5 oz. . . which is it? Its not the same weight. If its 1.5 lbs thats 1lb 8 oz, 3 oz heavier than the other quoted weight which makes it only 7 oz lighter and thats without reg and barrel still. . just wanted to point that out.

Pat

[RRfireblade]

Originally posted by magman109
Earlier in this thread someone said the advent weighs 1.5 lbs. . .and then someone said its lighter cause it weighs 1lb, 5 oz. . . which is it? Its not the same weight. If its 1.5 lbs thats 1lb 8 oz, 3 oz heavier than the other quoted weight which makes it only 7 oz lighter and thats without reg and barrel still. . just wanted to point that out.

Pat

All the weights are listed in the advertisment that I previously posted.

There are 3 versions.

Advent=2lb

Advent S=1.5lbs

Advent GTS=1.3lbs

[JEDI]

Originally posted by melster
"1.5 lbs without barrel and regulator"

Wow. So we're talking grip frame and body here. My ULE RTP weighs 1.5 lbs without the barrel, but WITH the regulator.

Of course, that's without the foregrip and sight rail, but who keeps those on anyway? ;)
I weigh 215 lbs without pants or shoes. :D

[melster]

Originally posted by JEDI

I weigh 215 lbs without pants or shoes. :D

Thanks a lot for volunteering that info. Now, if only I could rip that image out of my head...

[WARPED1]

Originally posted by JEDI

I weigh 215 lbs without pants or shoes. :D And he's only 4'3".................

[Oddball]

What I found really strange was that the guy (Bruce) dressed up as a borg, just like TK.

[Fred]

the only similarity between a Sov and an auto-cocking system is that it has an LPR and X-way attached to the trigger... otherwise its pretty unique... nobody uses (or had used) a ram-bolt before.

I gotta pick one up...

---Fred

[QUINCYMASSGUY]

I guess my question with the AGD patent is what they see as being an infringement. Are they looking to do a SP-esque move and patent the general principle of a bolt being fired by a pre-pressurized chamber and resetted by a spring after it's vented at the forward part of its movement (which to me would be like another company patenting open bolt blowbacks or the generic spool valve concept)?

Or are they being more specific and patenting the whole idea of the AIR valve so that if someone made a blow forward design gun that was different from an automag in a significant way or utilized the general blow forward concept of a cylinder being released and fired forward by a prepressured chamber held by a sear and resetted by a spring would not be infringing upon a patent?

I guess the question on the laws of this would be interesting, and exactly what AGDs initial patent was for. If blow forward ever became as mainstream as E-markers, could AGD pull a SP act and expand their patent, putting anyone who utilized the technology in any way into the crapper? Choosing not to defend it and not being able to defend it is whole different games

[Gadget]

Originally posted by nerobro
[B]Wow... People haven't mentioned the "patriot" by name yet. That was the brittish automag CLONE. Just beucase a gun shares the same operating principal doesn't necessarily mean it's a clone.

The Automag clone was the COLONIAL, not the Patriot. It was a direct 'mag rip-off made by EPS in the UK, minus the tight tolerances and minus (oddly) the Z-lock pin. They made a 68 mag clone, minimag clone and some huge two handed beast as well. It didn't sell well simply because it was a piece of junk compared to a real Automag. :)

The Patriot (full name SAM Patriot) was manufactured by another UK company, Daystate (still a respected maker of air rifles) and was virtually identical to an Icon Z-1 (blowback semi). I owned one before I bought my 'mag in 1993.

I dug out this advert from the May 1994 issue of paintball adventures, have got one of the two hander somewhere:

http://www.chimpy.com/pics/pball/colonial.jpg