Rant : Reffing in Recball, a friendly "How to" guide from a rec-ball player

[Tyger]

This has been bothering me today. See, I went to go play, and I had what could best be described as a "Bad" day. Guns didn't work. Paint broke in my barrels a lot. You know, all the "Bad Karma" stuff that tells you that you shoulda stayed in bed. But I kept on. Why? I was already up and I'm too darn stubborn to go back to bed once I'm at the field. Stubborn or stupid, I'm not certain.

But that's not really the problem here. The problem is that in the last few times I've played, I've seen almost an acceptance of things that REALLY offend me. Today it was on steroids. But let me address one of those things.

Refs. I never thought I'd have to say this, but it's necessary. If you're reffing, please do not do the following :

Do not cuss at customers. We find it offensive
Do not cuss at 10-13 year old customers. That's just plain wrong.
Do not throw your ref shield into the ground while cussing at the customers.
Do not casually cuss amongst yourselves when you're refilling tanks or getting player's paint.
Do not assume that you are a diety. You are not.
Do not assume we are there to amuse you, or to fund your shiny electro-whatever you have in lay-away in the shop.
Do not treat a recreational, walk on game as a tournament. And if you're going to do it anyway, then you better be prepared to react to situations in kind. Like when someone calls "Paintcheck", please be kind enough to check the player for paint : not just stand there looking like a cow eating grass.

And while I'm at it, please do the following :
DO learn how to CORRECTLY use a hand-held chrony. If you use it improperly, you will get false readings. And please dont' act astonished when somoene who knows HOW to use one properly shows you.
DO learn how to CORRECTLY chronograph other paintguns than the one you have in the pro shop on layaway.
DO interact with the playing customers as people, at least a little. I like to see where my money is going. And personally, I find it reassuring when the refs actually ask me "How are you doing?" or "Having a good day?" It shows me they actually want us to have fun.
DO take care of the fields between games, especially when your indoor surface can shift like dirt or sand. Kicking it back to high traffic areas is not a bad idea.

Now why do I put all that in there? In the last few outings I played, I watched what I would consider less-than-competent refs do their 'job'. And what it consisted of was, at best, a ref standing on each side of the field watching passively and yelling "He's out." at random intervals. At worst, the referee staff cussing at players for stepping out of a non-existant "Start box" and breaking rules that were never told to us in orientation or pre-game instructions.

And what gets me is that the players actually sat and took the abuse! There was a distinct feeling of "Oh, we're sorry! Please don't beat us with the rubber hose again!" I was more than a little miffed at being treated like I did something wrong because the ref is having a bad time OR becasue a new player who didn't kow better did somehting they found offensive. Gosh, pardon me. I thought I was, indirectly, supporting you, your team, and your own paintball habit. And you're going to call me a what, exactally? If you can't handle the pressure of squeeging rentals or telling that new guy to put his goggles on for the fifth time, don't ref. Or at least don't take it out on the customers, ok?

Look, if you're reffing a game for players who dropped over $120 to be there and breathe the air, you better make their experience worth at least $120. I'm not saying you should roll over, bow, scrape, and otherwise be servants here, but you can be a little courteous, and not treat people like cattle or convicts. Is that too much to ask? Rec-ball is entertainment, please treat it as such.

And the players, you have some power in this too. If a ref is abusive to you or your group, leave. You don't have to put up with paying someone to give you grief. Would you pay someone to rub your hamburger in thier armpit? NO! Why should you have to take bad or abusive reffing? It's your money, the least you can do it spend it wisely.

There's more to this. But for now, this will do. I'll wait 'till later to write the other things that are really bugging me.

-Tyger

[danheneise]

hmm, sadly that sounds to similar to a normal day of recball at sc village here in SoCAL, there usually are a few "good" refs but most of them have the majority of the characteristics that you listed. infact i was actually supprised at 2 of the refs who complemented my automag when it was mostly stock

The worst day i have had at sc village, was when my sister, my freind and I decided to give advanced a try. Right off the bat they had about 8 players with fairly high end guns say they would be the only ones on their team so that made about 8vs20. We were like "ok...sure" and just went along with it. As we were walking back to our starting position and were pulling our plugs ready for the whistle to blow we heard a substantial amount of gunfire behind us, as we looked back we saw about 3-5 of the opposite teams players standing up on a hill unloading in our general direction. Finally they got them back to their starting possition and we played a very good and fair game.

Later in the day though it became extremely unfair as with one round we got the whistle to start the game, and as we ran out of our starting area the opposing team was already in our faces once again unloading on us but it was still only 3 guys, i'm guessing they probably snuck away from their team and hid on our side until the game started. I got lucky and was able to dodge incoming shots and slide into a very small ditch while my friend got quite unlucky and got hit out right off the break. Now i understand that in speed ball, if you get hit off the break it's pretty understandable as you start off looking directly at the other teams starting gate, but when your in a very dense forest, that's kind of hard to do without being in each other's face. After the break and quite a few of us getting hit right away the game commenced fairly well.

What ticks me off is that in both instances the refs did absolutly nothing except to tell them to get back to the starting possition. And in the game that they started basically on our side, the ref that was with our team did nothing even though he was in a perfect place to have seen them before the game started.

As you mentioned above, Tyger, all they do seem to care about is making money for their own "lay away equipment" and boy is that so true.

The two other parks i have been to have been exceptionally great with reffing, especially Hollywood Sports, which i doubt i will be going to again mainly because of driving distances. but the reffing was absolutly outstanding, THEY ACTUALLY CALLED PEOPLE OUT!!! rather than just randomly saying "Dead Man" as the refs at sc village do. The only bad thing about the refs at Hollywood Sports is that they seem to be fairly lonely guys, as they couldn't stop hitting on my sister :eek: :rolleyes:

Another park I have been to is Tombstone located fairly close to sc village. This park had just as excellent reffing as Hollywood sports park did and I will most likely be going there this next time

One thing i will mention that is good about the sc village refs is that they don't take any BS about safety and are very strict about it, ex: first time without a mask on is a warning, second time is getting kicked out of the park, they always watch to make sure all the players come out with their barrel plugs/socks on their guns. This safety i must say wasen't experienced as much at Hollywood and Tombstone, in fact at Hollywood it seemed to me that they were more strict about checking everyone's hopper to make sure they're using field paint than they were that people had their barrel plugs in.

Well i guess that's all my ranting for now mainly because i'm tired and my arms hurt from typing so much

Dan Heneise

[shartley]

Good post. And I will say “DITTO”!

There are good fields out there, and bad. And I would never recommend a “bad” field to anyone, in fact would recommend against them (hint hint field owners ;) ).

[Severe]

Nice post. I'm now waiting for the "How to be a GOOD customer" post. This should apply to walk-on's, regulars, and first-timers. (Unfortunately, the people who need to read it the most probably never will.)

- If you're playing a rec-ball field, DO NOT play as if it's a tourney.
- Even if the Ref is 13, listen to him/her.
- OBEY the local field rules.
- Be respectful of other cusotmers.
- I don't care if you have 100 trillion-billion years of paintball experience, if you're playing against a first-timer take their new-ness in to consideration. Ideally we wantt them to become second, third, etc -timers.
- Be an ambassador to the sport. If they have questions, no matter how ridiculous they sound, answer them politely and to the best of ability.
- Support your local fields.

I'm sure there are more.

Just some basic rules I try to follow.

Steve

[krafty]

Originally posted by Severe
- If you're playing a rec-ball field, DO NOT play as if it's a tourney.
I really wish some of the players at our field could follow this one. I'm not as concerned about the refs as I am about a few select players who seemingly can't play a fun game of paintball. They're switch is on either OFF or TOURNAMENT. What's worse is they'll try to stack a team with all their teammates so they can 'practice', but they do it against rentals, newbies, and people who are there to have fun... not become cannon fodder.

Some of us actually go to the field to enjoy ourselves and have a good time, not practice bunkering moves on a 12 year old carrying a hand-me-down spyder.

[Spaceman613]

Dont "stack" the teams. make them reasonably fair. Saturday i was playing at Tri_City in the chicago burbs and they seemed to forget that 3 or 4 tourney guys on the same team doesnt make it fun for the renters that had to face them.

And dont use your tourney gun against newbies. Try to let them have fun. use a pump, or maybe a rental semi. AND DONT TAKE PODS! Hopperball against renters isnt that difficult for a seasoned player.

[FallNAngel]

Players:
- Keep the new players in mind... we want them to come back, not run away crying.
- Don't shoot the refs unless absolutely necessary

Refs:
- Don't just stand there relying on people to call themselves out. I'm not saying you should stand in the streams of paint, but if you're not getting hit, you're probably not doing your job.
- If someone calls for a paintcheck, make it your first priority

Last time I was at pbshooters, in IL, the refs couldn't have been worse. They'd stand on either side of the 50... that's it. No paint checks, nothing. It being an airball field, obviously balls can bounce off the bunkers. I was trying to snapshoot another player out of my mirror, and as I came out, I accidentally hit the bunker, causing the shot to bounce off and hit the ref. Then the ref complains that I'm shooting him :rolleyes: No break, no paint... the ball just hit him.

Same day, one of my friends (who was a head ref for several years) called for a ref to paintcheck another player. The ref, who was definately close enough to hear him, stood there and did nothing. So he shot him and told him to go check the player. Nothing, shoots him again and tells him to check. I believe it was 3 times he had to shoot the ref before the ref actually moved. If a ref is scared of being hit, they shouldn't be reffing.

[Jeffy-CanCon]

Wow, Rob. You had a bad day! :(

I think I'm lucky (or have really good karma). My home field (PaintStorm, in Ottawa) has really good refs, and so does the place I visit most often in the USA (EMR). That all starts at the top, though. You need good management to have good refs. The Refs at PaintStorm are trained and supervised by a NAPRA and WPRC certified guy with 15 years of experience.

Severe - good thoughts.

[pito189]

Originally posted by Tyger

DO interact with the playing customers as people, at least a little. I like to see where my money is going.


You have played for awhile so I will cut you some slack, but seriously have you ever reffed?

You have to know that refs get paid peanuts if that.

So just take it in stride, do what you can at the field or talk to the owner. Whining on a message board about how bad the refs where because you had a bad day isn't going to accomplish anything.

:)

[RoadDawg]

My favorite is when the ref has a shield and stands in the main lane. Not only do I hit him and his shield but he protects everyone running behind him.

Pito- If they don't get paid much that is there own fault. They took the job so they should make the customers happy. Just my 2 cents.

[tony3]

PBshooters refs are completely terrible, they do nothing at all, just point and rarely say a word, and god forbid if you hit them they go nuts.

Country Clubs refs are decent, I was asking for a paint check on this one kid forever and they just looked from about 10 ft. away and said he was clean, even though he had a hit on one of his pods

Badlandz refs seem like they are always high and usually never do anything, but there are a few good refs

Challenge Park, imo the new fleet of refs are the best of any field around here. They are very friendly and nice. They also will do something, if you call for a paint check they will go check the person, if challenge had some speedball fields I'd go there much more.

[pito189]

Originally posted by RoadDawg
Pito- If they don't get paid much that is there own fault. They took the job so they should make the customers happy. Just my 2 cents.

Everytime I have reffed it's to help keep the day of play going, or even to get it started.

How many times have you reffed because you thought to yourself I need to make all these customers happy?

Also it's not their own fault they don't get paid a lot. The field owner choses how much the refs get paid, they don't have any control over it.

[hitech]

Originally posted by Tyger
It shows me they actually want us to have fun…thought I was, indirectly, supporting you, your team, and your own paintball habit…Look, if you're reffing a game for players who dropped over $120 to be there and breathe the air, you better make their experience worth at least $120.

Unfortunately, I notice when I find a ref that understands this. They seem to be so few and far between… :(

[RoadDawg]

Originally posted by pito189


Everytime I have reffed it's to help keep the day of play going, or even to get it started.

How many times have you reffed because you thought to yourself I need to make all these customers happy?

Also it's not their own fault they don't get paid a lot. The field owner choses how much the refs get paid, they don't have any control over it.
I don't ref. I play. As a customer I want the ref's to make me, the customer, happy by keeping things fair. It is the refs choice to work there or not. So YES they do have control over it. If the payment is their gripe then move onto something else.

[Lee]

i ref and don't get paid. i get wholesale prices on whatever i buy within reason.

i ref because i love to as much as i love to play and also because you learn from reffing. you get to watch players of all ages and skill levels and see what they do and what does/doesn't work.

i like helping new players out as well. i have a fair amount of experience in a lot of aspects of the game and i enjoy teaching it to others.

thats what it's about to me.

[Tyger]

Originally posted by pito189

You have played for awhile so I will cut you some slack, but seriously have you ever reffed?

You have to know that refs get paid peanuts if that.


Have I reffed?

Been a head ref for a while. Reffed at a field for years. Reffed at SEVERAL fields for years. So yes, I have.

I also come from a background of entertainment. Before paintball I worked at a laser tag place. And while there, I learned that a part of my job was customer relations. I am a part of the expirence. If I'm bad employee, people will think of the facility as being a bad place.

I take that with me when I ref. I take a moment, THAT'S ALL IT TAKES, to say to the players "Having a good time?" or "How's it goin' today?". It takes less than a minute of your life to talk to a player on a "person to person" level. When reffing it takes no effort to see who's having a bad day. It takes minimal effort to offer support, or sympathy, "You'll get 'em next time." I can look at people's rental guns and squeegie them in 10 seconds. If you're feeling generous, a whole minute of your day can be "Ok, here's why they got you that game. And here's how you can avoid that."

I learned this. I learned that the customers are people. I learned that it takes no effort, or at least a small effort, to relate to the customers as people. This is not McDonalds. This is not a counter job at the movie theater. You're not bumping chairs on the ski-hill all day. As a referee on a rec field, you are an integral part of the expirence of the players. YOU are the interface between the field and the player. YOU affect how the expirence can go.

As a rec-game ref you're going to see the same people all day, and these people will have a good or bad expirence based in large part on how you treat them. I guess I forget that nobody is teaching these guys the basics of customer relations. Either that or they just don't care , as long as by the end of the season they have their shiny new e-gun they "worked so hard for."

So yes, I have reffed. Yes, I practice what I preach. I don't believe that it takes much effort on the referee's behalf to actually interact with the players, and not be percieved as either "rent-a-cops" or "drill sargents" or "trees in goofy vests".

Customer relations is a part of the job. Just like keeping people's goggles on and paintchecks. IMHO, if they can't handle that, they shouldn't ref.

-Tyger

[hitech]

Originally posted by Tyger
I take that with me when I ref. I take a moment, THAT'S ALL IT TAKES, to say to the players "Having a good time?" or "How's it goin' today?". It takes less than a minute of your life to talk to a player on a "person to person" level. When reffing it takes no effort to see who's having a bad day. It takes minimal effort to offer support, or sympathy, "You'll get 'em next time." I can look at people's rental guns and squeegie them in 10 seconds. If you're feeling generous, a whole minute of your day can be "Ok, here's why they got you that game. And here's how you can avoid that."


Come on guys, I do this as a PLAYER. I try to help the “newbies”. Even to the point of calling them over and pointing out a good shot. I is in my best interest to make sure they have a good time. After all, I need people to shoot at. ;) Gotta keep them coming back.

And yes, I’ve reffed many times before. I’ve reffed without being paid. If your going to do it, do it right.

[Tyger]

Originally posted by hitech

Come on guys, I do this as a PLAYER.

As should everyone, regardless if you're "on the clock" or not. But my point is that all the people that ref lately have either forgotten this, or never cared about it in the first place. It's about "doing time" at the field to get the hardware, or because a team's sponsorship is tied into reffing the "rec guys".

Sad state of affairs, it is. Very sad.

-Tyger

[xmetal2001]

Originally posted by Tyger
or telling that new guy to put his goggles on for the fifth time, don't ref.
-Tyger

No. He'll get a warning the first time, if it looked accidental and harmless, second time, he's gone. Its for his own good. Thats the policy, and if I uphold it then there won't be a problem, people will learn.

[FallNAngel]

Originally posted by tony3
Badlandz refs seem like they are always high and usually never do anything, but there are a few good refs

Well, I can't comment on Country Club or CPX, but personally I think the refs at Badlandz are fine. At least the ones that have been there a while. Every once in a while someone quits or gets fired and gets replaced by someone new who really has no idea what's going on. In the woodsball fields, I would agree it's hard for refs to do their jobs (as far as seeing hits), but when I yell for a paintcheck, I should expect a ref to come running. That being said, I've never had a problem with the refs at Badlandz.

[Big_Chops]

i agree even if refs do get paid squat they should still do their job.:D when i ref i try to make is fun and fair for eveyone. i may be harsh when u do somthing wrong but thats the way it goes.and getting hit is part of the job.i mean i don't like being hit but if it happens it happens.

[punkncat]

I agree.Refs should be professional and helpful as possible.Keeping in mind that it doesn't interfere with the flow of the progress of games.
It really becomes a problem when you have people swamping you with marker problems,newbie questions,telling you a great story about how they shot someone out last game.....you get the point.All that can keep a ref from doing what is really needed.Reffing games in progress.

Now for the Ref Rant!

If you bought a new marker before you came out to the field.Read the users manual before you come.Not every ref knows everything about every marker out there.Be prepared to have to possibly buy something(springs) to make your new "Clone" work right on CO2.Especially if it summer and the last time you played,it shot 280FPS and it was 35* outside.....

Bring your own squeegee.This is fairly self explanitory.The ref doesn't have time to clean every single break on every single marker on the field all day.

Bring your own rag.My towel will not accommidate cleaning off every hit on every player all day long.

If you bought the cheapest field paint , and are renting a marker with a shaker hopper, please don't ask why its breaking balls all day.

When you see the bright yellow shirted guy...you know the one who came and paintchecked you and gave the safety talk.....running across the field try not to shoot him to the limit of your reflex and hopper speed.Refs know they are going to be shot sometimes, but simply identifiying your target before you fire goes a long way!

I am sure there are many more.....

[Big_Chops]

nice post punkncat i agree 100% i hate having to try and fix guns, and then clean the whole team's barrels and all that other crap.

[than205]

Tyger,

I agree. And I do ask how peoples days are going. Your right, it made my day better when I was just a player and it puts an image up now that I'm a ref.

I ref because I have a sickness. I can't get enough of this silly sport. I ref because I would bankrupt myself if I played. (my kids like to eat)

However, I feel I'm a rarity in that I want people to like the sport as much as I do, versus having the latest gizmo/bling.

I mention this because I started reffing the end of last summer. The staff at the field I work at were psyched because I knew what at least an ok ref could be and training was limited. I've been playing for a while and I know what I like to see and hear. So I treat people like I like to be treated.

However, when you have younger/less experienced people who's only interest is blowing up thier own ego. Or better yet, they've never had a really crappy job. It's hard to explain much less motivate them to raise the bar. I try to deliver by example mostly. I play the same way.

Things that bum me out about some players though: (newbies are forgiven as a rule)
1. People that throw equipment.
2. When I hear "veterans" (old farts like me) swearing up a storm in front of kids. Sure it's rough and tumbly sport but still it speaks volumes when some kids mom has to put up with that.
3. players (this is recball we're talking about) that spend the whole day yelling "Check-um!" "Nope your still hitting the brush pile and none of its broken on him. I'm five feet away from him after all."
4. People that crank up thier reg/velocity after the chrono.
5. People who trash on kids cause they bought a Tippy. (or whatever. This elitist crap sucks big time)
6. People that adjust thier Tippy RT trigger so it bounces and don't understand when I ask them to turn it down/off.

That's enough for now.

Still, thanks for the post. Good stuff as per usual. I'll be sharing this one.

[tribalman]

tyger- what field were u at? cause i have notice some of these things happening, but it was mostly at night, about 2 games before closing, so it's acceptable to be a bit lazy, but not the swearing thing, that's not cool. also, i've notice that the pbshooters refs doing the same thing, staying at the 50. UNTIL it becomes the team practice, then they are moving about, checking paint, etc. but i've noticed everwhere i go they mostly go on the honor rule but will still check paint. my 2.5cents

[Tyger]

Originally posted by tribalman
tyger- what field were u at?

I've gotten this a lot. So I'll do this publcly.

I am choosing NOT to divulge the name of the field.

The reason is simple. When myself and my friends decided to leave, I had 2 bags of unopened paint. I asked if they would buy it back, because I would never be back again. That got the field owner's attention. We talked a while, I told him what my problems were with his field (basically the first post in the thread.) He said nobody else would refund my money, but he did.

IN THE END, he made it right. I can respect that. Out of that respect, I'm not naming his field. This isn't to say that you folks won't figure it out eventually. I've found that the brain usage meter on this site is pretty high, which also tells me a lot about people who own 'mags. If you really put your mind to it, you can figure it out yourselves.

He made it right, but I'm still not going to go back to that field. Everyone in my group also told me they have no plans to go back either, for reasons that aren't totally consistent with this thread. In 3 hours we were there the referee staff managed to turn off 5 players from ever coming back. And I know that if I meniton them, they'll lose a lot more becasue "Tyger said it sucked." That was not my intent. My intent is to serve as an eye opener, and I appear to have done that.

It seems to me that not only this field, but fields all over the place are suffering from the same problem. Refs looking at working off a team sponsorship or a new gun, and not really giving a damn about what they're doing. I can fault the field for this, I can fault the refs themselves, or the state of affiars, or whatever. In the end, we've got a lot of refs who don't understand the basic concepts of showing thier guests a good time.

-Tyger

[MarkM]

Whilst I can understand a lot of your post Tyger and do realise that you have the best intentions and yes the newb/punter/customer (call them what you will) are there to pay for your own paintballing needs, if you are totally polite in some situations it will lead to problems...it mainly is personality and how you project this...I will take the safety talks and after all the little jokes that relax the customers I will explain that safety is paramount and that I have nothing against anyone personally but major safety issues such as goggle lifting WILL be enforced and enforced HARD and if this means me yelling/swearing at you then I will do it...as I can't replace your eyes...I will try and avoid the cussing as you put it, perhaps the terminology you have used it means swearing AT someone, and that is wrong but yelling/swearing to get the persons attention will always work. If I was to start calling the customer names to get a reaction then that shouldn't happen but shouting politely to get that customer to replace their goggles isn't going to work as they nearly to a man/woman go selectively deaf as soon as game on is called. I take the time between games to help if required and will pre game coach and I don't have a problem with running all over to check people or clean their markers. Of course getting shot in the back of the thigh at 6 yards by a player who is pointing their marker over a barricade without looking does make me swear but I have yet to take it out on that player ;)

[Crighton]

Originally posted by Tyger


I am choosing NOT to divulge the name of the field

I had 2 bags of unopened paint. I asked if they would buy it back

DO take care of the fields between games, especially when your indoor surface can shift like dirt or sand.

-Tyger

He lives in SE/C WI. Not all that many fields in the area, even fewer with indoor fields. Even less that make you use field paint. (assuming this was the case, or they have excellent paint prices)

Most fields that suffer these types of problems seem to hire refs who on average are <18 years of age, and don't have a head ref who actually cares enough to make sure the younger guys do thier jobs correctly.

[taylor492]

geez thats pretty bad...while i was reading your list i was mentally checking off all of them as things that me and the other refs at my field did. the owner was pretty anal about those things. i agree, i wouldnt want to play somewhere like that.

[Dryden]

As a long time ref at charity events and big games, I would like to add the following:

Refs, always talk to all the other referees, before, during, and after the games, to ensure that all calls are consistent and within field guidelines and rules. As a player, I can tolerate if a ref makes a ruling on a ball break or chrono check that I might disagree with, provided that all refs behave similarly and I at least know what to expect. Players aren't expecting perfection, they're expecting consistency.

Always remember that priority #1 is player safety. If a player is in need of a paintcheck or is being overshot, step into the middle of the fray and break it up. If you're afraid of getting hit by a paintball, refing probably isn't for you.

I'm not saying I "enjoy" getting lit up, but nothing gets the adreneline pumping like jumping between a stream of paint between two players before they seriously hurt each other from overshooting.

Refs, don't "shadow" large groups when playing woodsball. There's a fine line between being close to the action, and standing over top of a concealed player whose laying in wait to ambush. As a player, I can usually target opposing players by watching the behavior of bad refs.

Refs, if you don't know the mechanics of a marker, or how to chrony it, defer to the ultimate judge or a fellow ref. Don't pretend to know how to chrony a marker you haven't seen before. There is nothing wrong with saying "I don't know," and asking for help. Besides, no one likes a pompous know-it-all anyhow.

Refs, if you've granted a player a paintcheck, and they're clean and ready to play, consider the location of the opposing team members and what ensued leading to the paintcheck. If declaring a player 'clean' and blowing the whistle results in said player getting hit 30 times, you're not doing your job. If field rules and conditions permit, it may be appropriate to give a countdown or relocate a player. Do not allow opposing players to move in for a better shot during the paintcheck.