Reasons NOT to invade anything...

[fenris69]

Hi, been reading over some stuff here, quite a few great posts...a few that we could have done without...but has anyone stopped to ask why? why invade anything? why blow up anything?(if this insults anyone or you already came to these conclusions thanks, no flames or patriotic rhetoric please)

you want to deal with terrorism? take a lesson from Israel. the same crap the western world has been getting on them for...defending themselves against terrorism...is what the U.S is now considering. cept theres one prob, and you should take note. you can't, simply CANNOT fight a conventional war against this.not unless your willing to involve not only the guilty parties(which may include entire families, women, children etc...) but a fair amount of innocents. You can't even take bin laden, why would you? so you can put him on trial and make a martyr out of him? think america has had trouble so far?? its just beginning if they try that. forgive me for saying so but theres only one way I can think of, and although you don't read about it much(makes bad headlines) Israel has had great success in the past. you headhunt. brutally, quickly, and MOST of all quietly. terrorist+press regardless of the result = win for them. you go in, you take him, AND his main backers, AND as many of his most able men.its a huge job, and would need to be done carefully. if at present you killed just him, he has a slew of highly trained terrorists who may not have his restraint(yes i said restraint, he could have done waaay more by now...) and suddenly have access to all his saudi millions + a reason for revenge...well you get the idea. and lets not forget pakistan and India waiting on the wings for the slightest excuse to act. India would like a reason to grab parts of pakistan, and theyd both like a piece of the afghanis...bah. you cant fight this one with western morals or mentality ...its a different world, a different type of people and a different way of life. don't expect to understand it, i sure as hell dont most of the time, nor do I want to. I was born in Israel and out of the 4 countries I've lived I'm glad to live in Canada...but thats my 2 cents. some responses regarding possible solutions or perhaps some other reasons why it should be handled differently would be appreciated. thanks.

[zvanut]

u r just sayin that cuz u r from Canada, LOL j/j. u have some really good points in there about Israel, etc. i think there is no end to terrorism, though it can and amybe someday will be, in most cases prevented.

[davisdawg123]

I think we have to stop them... remember when bin laden bombed the us embassy in Africa? we didnt do anything about it and he did it again... him and his group and other groups will keep on doing it if we dont punish them or do something. im not a big war person, but we should lock these groups up... its too hard to stop a plane with people who are willing to die on it

[fenris69]

of course we did nothing...what can you do? the "guilty" parties are already dead. they shoulda fried manson as well but "he didnt KILL anybody"... you go after their friends, their families, places they work, you burn their house to the ground. you make SURE they know what the consequences are. theres only one thing theyll care about after theyre gone and thats who theyll leave behind or you kill them all first. i know, its disgusting, but thats what i started this thread on. I want some better solutions.

[Tunaman]

Being as he used a Jet to kill innocent people on National TV, We should catch him alive, and SLOWLY feed him into a 767 Turbine feet first, along with whoever else supports his Ideas. On National TV, of course!

[Cha0tic]

LOL! tunaman.....kinda messy....

[fenris69]

enthusiastic...but not better.

[Jeb_Hoge]

First off, no one outside of the military and National Security Team knows *what* the plan is. I'd speculate it's going to revolve heavily around special operations and airborne assault with tactical air support and strike missions; they're not going to repeat Desert Storm.

Second, on the international stage, NOT responding would be a significant error. Sure, we'd like to think that the world would look up to us for going the peaceful route, but that would be an incorrect assumption. The US would come off as weak and spineless to the countries that do not consider us as friends (and probably to some that do), and that would really taint future relations and embolden those nations that feel the right to expand by force (like Iraq did back in 1991).

Third, at home, not responding or limiting response will be considered a betrayal by a great many citizens. I think Al Gore may have shot himeself in the foot by going on camera and advocating a "proportional response"; I'd certainly expect that comment to be replayed if he tries running for president again. The nation doesn't want proportial responses. We want an unquestionable response.

[thei3ug]

First, they have killed up to 40,000 people.
Estimates they are giving public are conservative, they're telling emergency personel and hospital staff around that number.

that's over a thousand tons of rotting organic matter that was buried in NYC. Couple that with the asbestos, and we can have some serious health risks possibly endangering more.

This one particular organization we are holding responsible has approximately 9,000 more sleeper agents waiting for targets in the future already in the united states. This is an FBI statistic, not a civvy speculation.

They have caused more damage monetarily than you can even conceive. They are already putting us out of work and driving our companies bankrupt. And they PROFITED off of it by selling our own market short before they sabotaged it.

This is the single largest act of terrorism EVER encountered. Israel may get crap from the world, but even the russians are saying "go get 'em." We are not the only nation attacking. NATO has invoked article 5. There is no opposition except from our enemies.

If you can find a reason NOT to COUNTERattack in any way, shape or form after those facts are presented, my god, tell me, because I'm missing it!

[Arturus]

Let's not start spreading rumors and expanded numbers at that...

It's nowhere near 40,000.. At least at the moment. I highly doubt the media would think twice about reporting if that were true; it wouldn't go without notice, if the officials were telling hospital and emergency staff the dead numbered close to 40,000.

The 'reported' missing according to the latest media updates, numbers in the low 5,000; which in itself is a tragedy.

At most, they estimate around 10,000-20,000 people were in the building at the time of the attack, and many did make it out on time.

That was an estimate though, so you never... chances are though, it's still nowhere near 40,000. Let's hope not.

[fenris69]

now we're getting somewhere. but a couple comments...

Jeb_Hoge: noone has a clue yet, we all know that, but if you read my rant at the top I'm very clearly advocating murder/revenge on a large scale. just a little more surgical. thats my alternative to a conventional strike.but quite right on the comments, a response is needed.

Arturus,
thei3ug: where is the clear gain from attacking anyone? and has anyone thought of the loss? people want blood, but I dont understand what there is to gain by attacking anything...course its all just popular rumor at this time, but with people worrying bout it...might spawn a few good ideas.

[Flamebo]

Screw Israel, it's not even supposed to exist. After WWII the nations felt bad for Jews so they took away Palestine's land and gave it to them. That was NOT the way to handle the situation, so Palestinian's have plenty of reason to fight back. However, in light of their extreme hatred towards the U.S. I despise Palestinians too, I just think they got shafted on that deal. We shouldn't have been helping Israel in the first place as it wasn't our place to step in, but the crap they pulled was totally out of line, we never attacked anyone... The countries now on my bad list: Palestine (Gaza Strip), Israel, Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia, and of course Afghanistan. I'm not sure if Pakistan really has good intentions our they're just scared for their lives, but either way they choose to help us so they're cool in my book.

[additions noted, but I figured the language filter would take care of it]

[Arturus]

fenris69 - Huh? How was I grouped together in your response with thei3ug?

My only response in this thread was to the accuracy of reports and numbers. I don't recall any part of my post, regarding attacks.

[cphilip]

What does this have to do with Paintball? And haven't we provided a place for the terrorist talk already? Please people lets not get too many of these kinds of things going. We are talking world politics now (even though its a tantilizing topic). We advised in the rules not to start these kind of threads as Flames will surely follow. This one sure apears to be heading that way to me. It for sure is not Paintball related in any way and it's not in the main terrorist thread so it's closed.

The cphilip may be on Jury duty but he is popping in so mind your manners. ;)