Stolen Guns & Insurance Ethics

[UThomas]

Ok, so I posted on here a few weeks ago that my apartment got broken into and I had among other things 3 guns stolen (works eblade and 2 1997 splashed evolution autocockers). So insurance wound through and I had to quote replacement cost (no depreciation). That is something like $1k for the e-blade, $1350 x 2 for the two evolutions, $345 for the max flo, $100 for the freak kit.

Now the trick is, insurance OK'd everything on the quotes, but the govt mandates that for "sporting good" settlements, 50% of the replacement costs get withheld until the items are actually replaced and the receipt is sent in.

Now my thought is, I don't need 3 $1k+ guns (I didn't before, and was trying to sell 1). So my question is, would this scenario be ethical, and if not, why?

-Buy guns from smart parts, get insurance money reimbursed 100%, and then sell them (or return them for a full refund).

This is legal, but my friends are conflicted on whether it is ethical. My thought is I'll be loosing $2k in value on the settlement if I don't buy the guns, but I don't really want 3 uber guns. My friend says that it would be disenginuous with the insurance if I did that. But they are paying me 100% cash for all my software (> $2k) and not withholding cash unitl I replace it so I don't see what the deal is.

Thoughts?

[Thordic]

Buy the guns, then sell them if you want. Its pointless to pay insurance money if you aren't going to use the insurance when you need it.

If you don't do it, it is YOUR money you are giving up, not theirs.

[RRfireblade]

Simple. Replace all the guns that were stolen.

That's where you were before the break in and what the insurance is there to do.

[robdamanii]

Originally posted by Thordic
Buy the guns, then sell them if you want. Its pointless to pay insurance money if you aren't going to use the insurance when you need it.

If you don't do it, it is YOUR money you are giving up, not theirs.

This is my thought exactly. Wether or not you were trying to sell one of the markers, you still owned them, and they still had a cash value to them. You would be totally within reasonable ethical standards to purchase 3 comparable markers, and then sell one if you wanted. Why? Because it puts you right back in the situation you were origionally in; having 3 markers, trying to sell one.

If you don't purchase those 3 markers, and don't get the full 100% coverage, then it would be like giving away one of your Evo cockers.

Or you could think of it this way...if you got all your markers back from the theives, you'd still want to sell one. Same situation, just a different way of looking at it.

[UThomas]

What about specifically replacing them, getting 100% payment, and then returning them?

[robdamanii]

I'd say go for it. You were trying to sell one of them origionally. I assume you'd get the full value out of it, so it would be much the same as selling your beloved missing cocker.

At least in my eyes, that's how I take it.

[ShooterJM]

Originally posted by UThomas
What about specifically replacing them, getting 100% payment, and then returning them?


I see ZERO problem with that. That's what I'd do.

[Halliday]

Buy them, and do what you want with them. That is exactly where you were before the break in. They were your and you could do what you please with them.

You have paid for the insurance, and they will put you back to where you were financially before the break in.

I doubt you'll be able to return them brand new for a full refund. You'll probally have to send in the original recipt to the insurance and I be the store/shop won't accept a photocopied reciept for returns..... :rolleyes:

[TheTramp]

I agree with everyone else.

How could it be unethical for the insurance company to replace the items that were stolen from you? If I had a helicopter (which I can neither use or fly) and it was stolen do you think I wouldn't have the insurance company relace it just becase I'm not a pilot? Of course not.

I've got three tournament level markers right now and really only ever need/use my E-Mag. I absolutly would have them all repaced if stolen. Think of it as simply three pials of cash. Why else would you pay for homeowners insurance?

[hitech]

I wouldn't worry about returning them. I believe the reason they want to see receipts is to prove the replacement cost. Like you said, they aren't requiring you to replace the software first. It’s quite common for people to get money from an insurance settlement and NOT replace the items. How many people do you know that were in a car accident and didn’t use the money (or didn’t use all of it) to fix the car? It’s common practice. And I’m sure the insurance companies are aware of it.

Return them without guilt. :D

[FallNAngel]

I agree with what everyone said. You're not trying to make more money off the deal, just get back where you were... which is what insurance is for.

[cledford]

You need to keep in mind that the insurance company isn't insuring the "value" of the items, but the items themselves. Say you bought "X" marker at MSRP for $1000 and they could get it for you for $700 - they would typically obtain the marker for you and not provide the extra $300 for "profit." The policies usually only read "replace with like value item." That's why inflated appraisals are such a rip-off - for you. You get an inflated appraisal for something, the insurance company charges you a premium based on that. It goes missing (say a diamond ring) they have to replace it with a diamond with the exact same qualities, but they probably will pay 1/2 of what you would on the open market. *If* they let you cash out, you'll only get what it would cost them, not you to replace the item. This a common misunderstanding by consumers who, upon realizing the scam, get quite upset. On the other hand, it keeps a handle (to a certain extent) on fraud, keeping our premiums down.

-Calvin

[cphilip]

Buy em... sell em. Once you bought them they are yours anyway. And you could have sold them at any time had they not been stolen. Why should your loss now limit your choices and property rights? There is not a thing unethical about this. Don't give it another thought.

Are you sure its "The Government" that says this? I never heard such a thing...

[skife]

my advice... take 'em for all your worth

You pay for insurance right?
You'll probably never have to use it again.. so you should just aswell get your money's worth now


just my opinoin

[Cryer]

Ethically speaking, your money, do with it what you will. Just make sure you get it back. If buying the 3 markers is the only way, then buy them. If they let you return the markers after the receipts have been handed in, do it, and spend your money on what you want (or need...?)

Given the opportunity to take reimbursment over resale, thats what I'd do. And I'm one the more ethical people here. (Or atleast I'd like to think I am :confused: ) I dont see anything wrong with that, personally.

EDIT- If nothing else, buy them, dont touch them (dont even take the shrink wrap off the boxes or whatever), and sell them for as much as you can.

But I'd return them and get a full refund

[tyrion2323]

This is the reason that you pay for insurance in the first place! I'd pick out three ccrrraaazzy markers and keep 'em, myself, but do with them what you want.

[GT]

Buy them but dont return them. This might be a gray area and look semi-fraudlent. However if you purchase them and then sell them like 2-3 months later that might look alittle better.

Remember to explain your break in on next years tax return or the IRS will tax you on that income unless you claim it.

BTW: some insurance companies will allow you to have a "personal libility floater" the company I am with requires the item to cost in access of 1k. if the item is lost or stolen I get 100% of the orginal or apparsied value, zero deductable. oh its also dirt cheap.

[Lohman446]

Originally posted by UThomas


Now the trick is, insurance OK'd everything on the quotes, but the govt mandates that for "sporting good" settlements, 50% of the replacement costs get withheld until the items are actually replaced and the receipt is sent in.



I see a BS meter here from your agent. A) ask for that in writing, demand it in writing. If you can prove what yuo had, prove its value, they have no say in how you use the insurance settlement (unless it is specifically written in to your insurance document thingy). Demand in writing, a good agent should be able to get this rolled over for you

[Fixion]

Why would it be unethical? Thats how much the guns are worth, thats how much the insurace company should pay you. Or you could send me one of the guns :), I'll pay shipping.

[barretc]

if you did purchase the new guns and sent the reciepts to the insurance,you would have to remember that there are dates posted or printed on the resiepts stating the day and time purchased. The insurance WILL reconize this and see that you bought the guns after the time your apartment was broken into and relize that the guns you purchased were not the guns stolen. So the best thing to do in the situation (which I hope you have) is the original reciepts of the stolen guns. And i think you said that you do not have the receipts. So, from my point of view, I dont think it will work.

[rdb123]

Guys, he's saying he will buy the markers from an online store or something, collect insurance money to recover the replacement cost, then immediately return the markers to the store. So in essense, he'd be getting maybe 1.5x his markers' value.

[UThomas]

Thanks for the feedback guys. I should be getting in my initial settlement today or tomorrow, so I'll read over the fine print and figure out whats going on. I still have to see what the spirit behind the 50% withholding on the sporting goods is. A couple points in the mean time:

So in essense, he'd be getting maybe 1.5x his markers' value.

Not really, I'm just trying to get 100% replacement value, which is what I pay premiums and deductibles for.

Or you could send me one of the guns , I'll pay shipping.

Sure. Shipping will be $2000 though :)

So the best thing to do in the situation (which I hope you have) is the original reciepts of the stolen guns

No, the deal is they won't give you 100% compensation for your stolen goods until you actually go out and re-purchase them. I'm not sure what the logic of it is (cut down fraud?), but they withhold 20% on CD's, 50% on sporting goods, etc. I've already demonstrated ownership of the stolen goods, now its an issue of getting insurance to reinburse me the other 50% of their value.

[UThomas]

Ok, so I just got my initial payment and paperwork and called insurance. I had $6k in losses which they sent me a check for, and $3.5k in what they termed "recoverable depreciation." Apparently the state policy sets the depreciation percentages that they withhold until you submit receipts for the actual item. For what I see listed:

Music CD's and application software (ex: Win2k) - 50%
PC Games - 20%
Sporting Goods (ex: paintball!) - 50% (!!!)

I asked her "hey, can I just buy a CD to get the full amount and then return it?"

And she said "uhh... you could, but that could be insurance fraud."

So I'm like "why" and she said its because they are paying for replacements. I still don't quite get the logic... but...

I guess I'm going to buy all the guns new and then sell them on the forums and not just return them (which I want badly to do :))...

What colors should I get the evolutions? What do you guys think sells the best? I'm thinking 1 pueter and 1 silver. Or maybe a black/yellow fade.

Any thoughts are appreciated.

[Cryer]

make a poll...

See what everyones fav colors for these particular guns are...

Then order to match the largest demographic