Smart Parts patent and the eMag

[hitech]

The following is an excerpt from the Smart Parts patent.


When the electrical switch is closed to initiate the launching sequence the projectile is first loaded into the launching mechanism by electrical timing circuit actuation of the first electrically operated pneumatic flow distribution device. The projectile is then fired when the electrical timing circuit actuates the second electrically operated pneumatic flow distribution device to release gas from the compressed gas storage chamber into the launching mechanism.

It is just me, or does that NOT cover an emag? I don’t see how you can interpret that to include it. Anyone?

[RRfireblade]

Without a big crazy discussion,it really doesn't matter.

The Patents thats SP hold are under questionable grounds on all accounts,regardless of what they actually say.Until that gets a complete investigation during a full trial,little else can be done.

[hitech]

Things are kinda slow around here. Besides, that's what I was hoping for, a big discussion on what that paragraph means. :D

[Crighton]

To me it sounds like the e-mag and x-mag are missing the "first electrically operated pneumatic flow distribution device"

One would think on the E and X only the "second electrically operated pneumatic flow distribution device to release gas from the compressed gas storage chamber into the launching mechanism" is present.


Possibly one of the reasons we haven't seen any SP vs AGD papers yet. If they could sue on the grounds of only the second device wouldnt that also cover sear trippers (kingsman, PMI)? Perhaps they are afraid of those companies deep pockets.

[wyn1370]

it sounds like it is talking about a selenoid that controls air flow vs. an electric sear tripper.

[logamus]

it sounds to me like if an air powered gun uses electronics to acuate the firing portion its covered under the patent. but perhaps like sp im being to non-specific.

[mark_426]

When the electrical switch is closed to initiate the launching sequence the projectile is first loaded into the launching mechanism by electrical timing circuit actuation of the first electrically operated pneumatic flow distribution device. The projectile is then fired when the electrical timing circuit actuates the second electrically operated pneumatic flow distribution device to release gas from the compressed gas storage chamber into the launching mechanism.

Well, do the magnets and sensors count as a switch? I'm not that familliar with the e/xmags

It doesnt even use a lpr, such as an angel, (sp, but its ok) impulse, the vikings/matrices. So, because the only place air goes is to the valve (comes straight from either foregrip or tank or asa), therefore, there is nothing other than the e/x valve able to be operated pnuematically?

It still uses the sear, so why wouldn't it be just an est? I don't really think the air is controlled by the electronic portion at all, eliminating the last two points?

It doesnt use a pnuematic ram, such as a tippmann ebolt or my angel, more like my egripped a-5, so that would make it like an espyder, epirhana, etc?

Sorry if I'm wrong (I prefer misinformed:D), just trying to help hitechs dream of starting "a big discussion on what that paragraph means."

[tony3]

I remember hearing about the PIMP kit from evil, pretty much an impulse that doesn't include the ram, so it won't fall under the sp patent, the user has to supply the ram. Why can't agd just not actually make a line of emags, and sell the frame seperate?

[hitech]

That would still violate the patent. You could sell the RT with the extra "leg" on the sear and possibly the emag grip frame without anthing in it. You might be able to get away with that. However, you cann't simply sell something in parts to avoid a patent.

[Top Secret]

Originally posted by hitech
That would still violate the patent. You could sell the RT with the extra "leg" on the sear and possibly the emag grip frame without anthing in it. You might be able to get away with that. However, you cann't simply sell something in parts to avoid a patent.

Evil is doing basically that to get around the patent. They are selling basically a complete gun, except it cannot fire as it is sold.

[NoFearPaintballer]

When the electrical switch is closed to initiate....
No couldnt you have the electrical switch open then fire? that would be legal.... Wouldnt it?

[fire1811]

ahh but the important question is
does agd have a petent pending on the trigger being activated by magnets?
if so then the shocker will be in violation
right?

[Joni]

What? The shocker has a microswitch, right? It has a magnetic return, thats it.

[fire1811]

yeah true
maybe they will patent magnets :)

[p8ntballin007]

I just don't understand why wgp and agd don't just patent semiautomatic paintball guns and then just go right after smart parts. That would make sense to me and it would also shut down smartparts in a hurry.

[fire1811]

you only have a limited time to apply for a patent and it is well past that

[hitech]

Originally posted by fire1811
you only have a limited time to apply for a patent and it is well past that

That and the fact that there was verifiable prior art.

[p8ntballin007]

well wasn't there prior art when smart parts patented electos, wasn't there the bushmaster or what ever it was then

[hitech]

Originally posted by NoFearPaintballer
When the electrical switch is closed to initiate....
Couldn't you have the electrical switch open then fire? That would be legal.... Wouldn't it?

That is a VERY interesting idea. I wonder if distinctions like that are enough. I believe Odyssey tried that with the Halo (the used a reflective beam instead of a beam break, IIRC). BE sued them anyway. It's still a great idea.

[GT]

Little rumor mill here but,
I read/chatted with someone that brought up the idea that WDP is dumping all of thier angels in fear of a suit from SP. Thus why we have seen the A4 drop in price from 1400 a few months ago to about 1k currently. I was under the impression that the A4 fired using an optical switch? IF its true that they fear SP and that there desgin is techincally different then do you honestly think they have a case if they are dumping stock?

[magmonkey]

i belive wdp already told smart parts to go pound sand a few years ago
wdp is in the uk and a us patent has no bearing as far as i know

[NoFearPaintballer]

Heres how we all solve this......
have AGD make a "second hand" company design a gun that operates with a battery and patent the battery in a gun and sue the crap outta SP. ( show them good for nothings what it is like)

[athomas]

Hmmm... The part where it refers to "The projectile is then fired when the electrical timing circuit actuates the second electrically operated pneumatic flow distribution device to release gas from the compressed gas storage chamber into the launching mechanism. " is interesting, especially since the emag a) doesn't have a second electrically operated system and b) it doesn't use an electrical means to release gas.

To clarify, the sear trippers may have something a little different in operation that may help in their case against the patent. Nothing electrical specifically controls the release of gas. The only electrical interaction is for the purpose of starting the mechanical cycle of the gun.

I also like the idea of using an open switch to start the cycle. It might be different enough.

[Enigma4you]

My question has always been this, The E-Mag X-Mag and Kingmans line of electroes except the EM1 and countless other syder clones all fire with an eletric seliniod hitting a sear or inthe case of mags the on/off.I thought the the smart parts patent only covered the pneumatic/electric seliniod where it controls the flow of the air, not the actual firing of the marker. Is this not the two steps that they refer to in the patent? In this case then any electro sear tripper including the mags would not be protected inthe patent. Or am I wrong? Please explain this to me