"Mythbusting" in paintball. What's your "favorite" one?

[Tyger]

Ok, so I got this video show over on 'da Dawg, ya see. And, I was thinking about doing this anyway, so I'll bring it up to yall for discssion.

I want to open this season with a 4 week "Series" on paintball myths. I'm already planning on showing once and for all that all paintball guns shoot the same distance at 300 FPS. (Or 280, or whatever) Except the flatline, but I have a special plan for that.

So I wanted to open the idea up, user interaction and all that. What "Paintball Myths" would you like to see busted or confirmed? All I ask is that it's something that someone like me can really do. I mean no horrifically expensive, and not 100% scientifically studied. I don't know what a "Dino" really does, ok?

Ok, open match here. What bits of "common knowledge" would you like to see shattered into a billion pieces or proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that it's "Really real"? I'm open to ideas!

-Tyger

[252]

Closed Bolt Vs. Open Bolt!

:D

[SuiciDal Sn Y p ER]

you can use me as the test dummy :)

[than205]

"Longer Barrels are more accurate."

[Mag_SEAL-6]

Can't really think of anything but will be back here if i do. The only "dino" I know is when you get your car tested for torque and hp.

[ScatterPlot]

Possibly something about the correct way to size a breech on freaks/aradus thingy/kaner/whatever. Or something about how consistent the bores are; i.e., do a test with a Kaner .XXX barrel and with a Freak .XXX barrel on the same gun. That might qualify as a little pricey though. Good luck, I'll post some more as they come.

[SuiciDal Sn Y p ER]

Which bore size works best?

Are pumps more accurate than semis?

[Mag_SEAL-6]

btw, to than205: longer barrels are slightly more accurate than shorter ones but the difference is so slight, it's hardly noticeable. Plus, this usually only applies to short ranges, where tighter shot groupings are more apparent.

At longer ranges, the ball has achieved a more steep negative slope and the wind has had more effect on it, rendering the barrel length almost unnecessary.

[GT]

Originally posted by 252
Closed Bolt Vs. Open Bolt!

:D

yea I love that one.

[soccer4minimags]

Like mentioned earlier do some barrel bore size tests. But more like this compare a barrel system to a good quality one or two piece barrel that doesn't come with a dozen bore sizes. Basically you'd be trying to prove how much of an advantage the kit would actually give you over just a "decent" match.

[than205]

Originally posted by Mag_SEAL-6
btw, to than205: longer barrels are slightly more accurate than shorter ones but the difference is so slight, it's hardly noticeable. Plus, this usually only applies to short ranges, where tighter shot groupings are more apparent.

At longer ranges, the ball has achieved a more steep negative slope and the wind has had more effect on it, rendering the barrel length almost unnecessary.

lol, ok.

[Tyger]

Originally posted by SuiciDal Sn Y p ER
Which bore size works best?

Are pumps more accurate than semis?

Done those, kinda. Did a whole show talkign about barrel/paint, and did a show where I showed that any gun can hit a target at 75 or so feet if you've got some skill.

And "open vs. closed" bolt? As in accuracy?

-Tyger

[sslecyk03]

Compare and contrast the effects on accuracy of different control bore sizes like one inchers (hammerhead and the new stiffi) and longer ones like the rest of the barrel kits

[AGD]

Oh I don't know, maybe:

Low pressure is better
one barrel is more accurate
closed bolt vs the world
hammer valve electro pneumatics are new technology
AGD is bankrupt
round paintballs shoot straighter
RT's are banned from tournaments
X gun will shoot 30 BPS
manufacturers really test their guns....

AGD

[datapimp69]

how about the myth that there is suck a thing as a gun that shoots from an open bolt.

most kiddies have heard the "open vs closed bolt" phrase said, and i think most think that some guns shoot from an open bolt.

as we all know the bolt must be closed for it to shoot.

open or close after the first shot they all shoot the same.

[Lohman446]

Originally posted by Mag_SEAL-6
btw, to than205: longer barrels are slightly more accurate than shorter ones but the difference is so slight, it's hardly noticeable. Plus, this usually only applies to short ranges, where tighter shot groupings are more apparent.

At longer ranges, the ball has achieved a more steep negative slope and the wind has had more effect on it, rendering the barrel length almost unnecessary.

Show me this... it is my understanding that the principles of fluid dynamics and vortex shedding, while I have only the vaguest idea of what they are, assure that any paintball coming out of any barrel (reasonable) at a consistent speed will be consistently inaccurate.

[Brophog]

AGD is bankrupt

Please do this one! Too funny.

[Garrum]

Wearing camo will bring ruin to paintball.

Woodsball players are violent hicks.

Players who like the mil-sim aspect are even more violent than the woodsballers, and are a danger to society at large.

Referring to a paintball gun as a gun will cause the world to end.

Pro team players getting into fist fights, being pricks to everybody, and cheating on the field is a better image for paintball than a group of friends having a good time in the woods.

A low pressure gun will get 43,000 shots off of one 47/3000 HPA tank. And never chop. And shoot farther. And get more breaks on your target. And make you a better player. And get you a girlfriend. That doesn't mind kinky sex. Involving a paintball gun. And a battle swab.

Blow-back semi auto paintball guns recoil so much that you can't keep two shot in a row within a 400 foot circle. They also routinely snap off fingers at the elbow when the cocking handle hits them during firing.

[Miscue]

AGD made nailguns.

[can'tthink of1]

Dare I say...

Blowback vs Electro

[minimagjim]

compressed air/nitro vs co2

i always hear this one..."oh, if you use compressed air it will make your shots more powerful(?) or it will make your velocity go very high"

some other arguements too, just cant remember them all they are all very strange!!

you should definetly debunk the mystery of why the guy with nitro is always shooting "hot" lol

[Ov3rmind]

Mags chop
Matrixes get bad efficiency
Timmys are really just Spyders
The Impulse is a good gun

[Meph]

Hey Tyger I'll talk to you more about this in Canada when we have time off from PPIG-ing! But here's my list that I planned on doing myself as well this summer with some spare time (if I find it) and equipment...

Open face bolt VS. Venturi Bolt : One more accurate? More consistent? Shoot further?

Open Bolt VS. Closed Bolt : One shoot further? More accurate? etc. This will also cover the pump V semi, just word it in there man! Kill 2 birds with 1 stone. Oh... and SP "seal forward technology" toss that into this mix as well!

Mechanical/E-gripped hybrid VS. Electro-Pneumatic (like Dragun TES VS. an Intimidator) : Again, listing performance differences.

Rifled VS. Special Ported (HAMMERHEAD!) VS. 'Regular' barrels : Any one better than the other?

WAS board bps readout VS. computerized testing : See just how fast the marker actually fires BPS as compared to the readout on the LCD screen.

Smart Parts VS Quality Control : Self explanitory!

CO2 VS HPA : Shots per fill, consistency, et cetera...

[GT]

Originally posted by Ov3rmind
Matrixes get bad efficiency
Timmys are really just Spyders

but those are true ;)

[edweird]

LOL nice topic...

Seal Forward Technology is stupid SP hype... Oh wait that isnt a Myth.

/checks that one off the list :P

[845]

My favorite is X gun shoots harder. Its such a stupid myth and it just amazes me how many newbs believe it.


And wouldnt a longer barrel get more range because you have a 10" barrel and a 16" barrel if the paintball exits the 16" barrel at 300fps and it exits the 10" barrel at 300fps wouldnt it have 6 more inches of range?

[Gabriel]

no, balls stop accellerating in all barrels after 8 inches.

gabe

[tony3]

Get someone with an angel speed and all 3 volumizers, and do shot groupings at 3 different pressures and see if the accuracy changes.

[mjs1217]

Originally posted by than205
"Longer Barrels are more accurate."

YES! Definitly do that one! Also, "Autocockers and Angels hurt so much more than spyders"!! Those two are probably the most common, and the most wrong.

[manike]

Different guns (except the flatline) have different trajectories.

[WenULiVeUdiE]

Cockers are more accurate than gun X. It isnt really closed vs. open but this comes up so often and the noobs must know the truth.

Also do a hopper test to see if the manufacturers are telling the truth. The warpig one is somewhat old and out dated. Just a thought.


Andrew

[Mango]

Originally posted by Tyger
I don't know what a "Dino" really does, ok?


-Tyger

You mean a "Dyno," as in, a Dynamometer? Those are for testing things with wheels or engines, not paintball guns. http://www.pwrtst.com/

[StickFigurSicide]

A low pressure gun will get 43,000 shots off of one 47/3000 HPA tank. And never chop. And shoot farther. And get more breaks on your target. And make you a better player. And get you a girlfriend. That doesn't mind kinky sex. Involving a paintball gun. And a battle swab.

Damn! i think im going to convert my mag to low pressure!



*sigh*

[Wes Janson]

But AGD did make a nailgun back in the day... It's called the FN303.


Along the lines of what's been said, I saw an article in either Crossfire or PB2X a month or so ago, in which the author tried to prove that barrel length affects accuracy. I believe he used an e-mag, and according to the article he tested it with the same air source, inside, at room temperature, with a chronometer. According to the findings, 12-14 inches was the optimum barrel length. Make of it what you will, but I've always heard people advocating around that size as being the best for a marker.

[gadget68]

Frozen paintballs.. Can you actually freeze a paintball to a hard enough point that it can be considered solid and will they shoot out of a marker? Myth or Fact? You tell me Tyger.

[chizle97]

What about this one. "Constant air will never catch on."

There are magic elves inside each automag.
DEAD WRONG!! everyone knows they are magic gnomes:D

[FlameboyC11]

Accuracy, but in a more complicated setup than just a bench mounted one. Measure the kick per shot, and maybe even in strings of 10 (@ 10bps). People don't have arms like vises (or at least, not most of em), so any vise mounted test in the past doesn't show too much. I'd like to see this one.

[Miscue]

Originally posted by Wes Janson
But AGD did make a nailgun back in the day... It's called the FN303.


Along the lines of what's been said, I saw an article in either Crossfire or PB2X a month or so ago, in which the author tried to prove that barrel length affects accuracy. I believe he used an e-mag, and according to the article he tested it with the same air source, inside, at room temperature, with a chronometer. According to the findings, 12-14 inches was the optimum barrel length. Make of it what you will, but I've always heard people advocating around that size as being the best for a marker.

??? The FN303 is a less than lethal military gun. <IMG SRC="http://www.spa-simrad.com/FN303.jpg">
It is not a nail gun. AGD has never made nailguns.

I find it ridiculous that magazines publish the "findings," of non-scientifically or engineering minded people. This is what people do when they test stuff: They get marker X, barrels Y, a chronograph, a couple cold six-packs, and they mount it somehow... all this provides the illusion that their test has legitimacy. They fart around with it and come up with the results that they want to come up with, or is agreeable to them. And their results vary from person to person. Can we say, mistakes and systematic error? :p

Also, they gather data haphazardly and then come up with some conclusion that you have to wonder how they arrived at. "I used a chronograph and securely mounted the marker to my keg, therefore what I say is conclusive!"

Now, those who do it right end up with the same, able-to-be-duplicated results. Same ball at 300fps regardless of how it gets there = same accuracy and distance.

[Meph]

That's true and false. Some people do "testing" to take pictures and say they tested. But indeed modify the results.

However other people, (like me) do non-biased tests. Where the results are the results, no matter the outcome. I mean to test accuracy of a marker how can you NOT do anything but mount it? You hold it... user error! You HAVE to mount it, only way it's a credible test. It removes human error and gives real results.

If you don't think mounting it stiff is the best way to test accuracy... then what is?

[Sir_Brass]

how about the myth that people with super fast electros don't shoot near as fast in ANY game as they can over the chrony?

I've heard so much bs about shooting 20 bps on the field that it makes me sick. I know that speedballers, no matter how fast their guns, shoot in and around 12 bps (+/- 3 bps maybe) ON THE FIELD during a game, where as AT THE CHRONY, they may manage to then outrun their hoppers shooting 20 bps or so.

should debunk the myth that you can run though a 12 bps rope of paint. after all, plenty of people fail when player x closes down a lane at the fastest he can (probably around 12 bps) and player y, having started his run as soon as player x shuts down the lane, runs straight into the stream. yeah, suuuure, people can run through 12 bps paint streams . .. whatever.

[Halliday]

Originally posted by Garrum
Pro team players getting into fist fights, being pricks to everybody, and cheating on the field is a better image for paintball than a group of friends having a good time in the woods.

That's a good one!

[-=Squid=-]

How come when I shoot a full hopper, if I try and shoot the last ball it chops, no matter what gun or type of vision system? :confused: :(

[FlameboyC11]

In fact, why not take it to the next level? Knowing AGD, they might be interested in financing a ballistics test from a *real* facility. Companies could donate one of their markers to use, and then a universal set of regs, barrels, tanks, paint, hoppers, and whatever else you could think of would be installed on the guns. From there, the guns would be shipped to a facility that measures real guns and their characteristics and the tests would be done. No more whining, no more illegitmate *most accurate* (except for the one that was), *fastest shooting*, etc.

[Brophog]

Because your force fed or agitating hopper wasn't made to shoot to the last drop. They were made to keep balls free flowing. To that end, the last few balls will get impeded by the very object used to keep them moving.

Try it with a cheap plastic hopper, or stick feed. You'll have no trouble shooting every last ball.

[-=Squid=-]

Originally posted by Brophog
Because your force fed or agitating hopper wasn't made to shoot to the last drop. They were made to keep balls free flowing. To that end, the last few balls will get impeded by the very object used to keep them moving.

Try it with a cheap plastic hopper, or stick feed. You'll have no trouble shooting every last ball. Thats what everybody tells me, but I can take the hopper off, put 4 balls in the feed and one will chop :mad:

[Sir_Brass]

Originally posted by -=Squid=-
How come when I shoot a full hopper, if I try and shoot the last ball it chops, no matter what gun or type of vision system? :confused: :(

the spirit of electro doesn't like you, simple as that. The gnomes in your batteries have been recalled and reemployed elsewhere. Just go back to mech and trigger jobs and be content in the simple life :p. Maybe then the gnomes will be returned to your 9v's and your electros :p.

[Lohman446]

Originally posted by FlameboyC11
In fact, why not take it to the next level? Knowing AGD, they might be interested in financing a ballistics test from a *real* facility. Companies could donate one of their markers to use, and then a universal set of regs, barrels, tanks, paint, hoppers, and whatever else you could think of would be installed on the guns. From there, the guns would be shipped to a facility that measures real guns and their characteristics and the tests would be done. No more whining, no more illegitmate *most accurate* (except for the one that was), *fastest shooting*, etc.

If you were a marker maker that had hyped a product, and built a strong market share based on hype, would you ever dare put your marker next to a Spyder in a controlled enviroment. Face it, even though I shoot a mag, I know full well that my game would not suffer irrevocable damage if I picked up a Piranha off the wall.

Edit: Ahh, I just realized what I said... let me clarify. AGD has tested their products, I have faith that everything in my mag meets a certain tolerance level that TK has deemed acceptable, that is why I shoot a mag. However, if you were SP, AKA, etc. and depended on each year saying "wow, we put this new screw in our marker, its better than the last" in order to sell guns and keep new gun sales flowing - would you dare let anyone prove that the 03 Shocker, teh Matrix, the 03 viking, adn all other guns made now and in the forseeable future, will be influenced by the same principles of fluid dynamics and we have really begun to reach the upper limits of accuracy and usabe speed (debatable) - there is only so much mroe you can push for - uber efficiency so I can use a 12G nitro cartridge would be cool

[Automag88]

See which gun has the longer range, a flatlined Model 98 or a Z-Bodied Mag

[Garrum]

Very good point Lohman. Too many truths would be revealed in that kind of standardized test. Hype and 'killa' annodizing wouldn't save them.

[felony]

Originally posted by AGD
Oh I don't know, maybe:

AGD is bankrupt

AGD

Please bust this myth.

i want AGD forever :]

[Brophog]

Thats what everybody tells me, but I can take the hopper off, put 4 balls in the feed and one will chop

I guess, the only other explanation is Sir Brass' gnome theory.;)

[shades]

That cheating is acceptable in paintball.

[Mrmacdude]

Your gun runs at 800 psi, and mine runs at 400 psi. So I get 2 times as many shots per fill than you do. No? Then, 1 and a .... no? more than you? no!? HOW CAN THIS BE? ***Explodes***

[islandboi]

just because someone wears cammo they're a noob or are trying to be army i dont wear cammo but it pisses me off when people say that.

how about paint? best shells best fills best all around conscistency (wow thats a 5 dollar word)

[Wes Janson]

I can't believe no one got my nail gun joke. *sighs*