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Jack & Coke
02-15-2004, 04:59 AM
From:






Behind The AutoMag
Published May 1996

An Article by Mike Wallis


We were sitting at a table under one of the many umbrellas emblazoned with the Airgun Designs logo. Next to us, was the huge trade show of the'94 Masters paintball tournament. Behind us, the Airgun Designs semi rig loomed, with a huge corporate logo on each side of the trailer. Earlier, I had walked the fields and seen the Airgun Designs service crews in their tents, busily fixing guns in the warm Tennessee sun. Opposite me was Tom Kaye, the man behind the AutoMag. I had a thousand questions for him, about his gun, his commitment to his customers and the future of paintball. So read on, to find out more about this man and his company.

Mike: I guess the first thing I want to talk about is the origins of the company, why you became involved in paintball?

Tom: We were manufacturing an air ioniser for a company back in '87, this represented a large portion of our business and when we lost that contract, we approached PMI in order to try and fill that capacity. At the time we were doing plastic forming out of our shop and we said that we could make a full face mask for them. I'd played the game a couple of times and seen the need for a larger mask. At the time, only the little green 'Woodstock' mask was around. Well, they ordered 500 of those pieces. It was a full face like a hockey mask and it became known as the PMI mask.

Mike: Hm.. I think I had one of those.

Tom: Yeh., one of those old black ones. Darth Vader masks guys called them. We made 40,000 of those masks, and that's how we got into paintball. Back then we weren't Air Gun Designs, we were the parent company, Technacore Industries. We used to manufacture air operated feed systems, which were things like turntables to feed parts into a machine, do some operation on them and then kick the parts out. We would go into a situation, find a problem and design a whole system around it. For instance, we designed and built a machine that fed 25,000 gumballs per hour through a printing press, so it would print your name on the gumball. It had never been done before, and we did that. Well a paintball gun is a hand held air operated feed system. So whereas most other people had some sort of a gun background and they tried to make what they knew about guns apply to paintball, which is a compressed air system. We took what we knew about compressed air systems and applied it to a gun. So that's how it all got started.


http://www.paintmagazine.com/wpaint2/tom1.jpg
Tom Kaye receiving a sponsors award
at the 1994 Masters


Mike: And your first gun was actually a blowback design?

Tom: Yeh, in '87 when we were making the mask, we saw the need right away for a semi-automatic. At the time the SMG-60 had just come out. That was a tremendously revolutionary gun. The only problem with that gun was that it had a clip - 15 shots in a clip and we recognised right away that a gravity feed system would be the way to go. So we hacked up a few pump guns and we made a firing semi auto in the end of '87, it was a very crude prototype, but it proved the concept of a gravity feed semi-auto, which was fantastic at that time. From that point we further refined it into what we called 'The Panther', which had the designation P1, for the first one. We ended up selling that design to Direct Connect and Daisy was going to manufacture it. But Daisy ended up screwing up and the whole deal went south. We were under a contract not to produce any other guns based on the sale of that gun. We ended up buying the design back. But by then the design was already obsolete, because field strip screws and quick release barrels had all come into vogue whilst Daisy was trying to produce it. So we designed another gun, another blowback gun and we called that one P2, for Panther 2. That gun was very innovative, but it never made it out of prototype stage. It worked, but it had problems with the blowback not re-cocking the system under all conditions. This was a problem that we had continuously on all of our blowback guns. So, after two designs and two years of working with this, we said, blowback's not really the way to go. But, the second gun that we built did have all the quick strip features and quick barrel release that we were used to. Then, we started working on Panther 3 which became the first AutoMag.

Mike: Did the concept for that gun come from previous experience with the pneumatics industry?

Tom: Previous experience with the Pneumatics industry and building two prototype blowback guns. We knew from the blowback guns that we didn't want a trigger mechanism that was difficult to latch up. We did not want impact on any of the parts in the trigger mechanism because that creates a lot of problems and we wanted a gun that would re-cock at any pressure. The only way to meet those qualifications was to turn the system around and have a spring re-cock the gun. Because a spring will always have the energy necessary to re-cock the system. By doing that you also relieve all the pressure on the trigger mechanism.

Maintenance of velocity was another problem that we had with the blowback gun. So, we set the functioning pressure below what the normal variation would be and those parameters dictated how the gun would look; blow forward, pressure regulator, air chamber etc...


Read the rest of the interview here! :)http://www.automags.org/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif (http://www.paintmagazine.com/wpaint2/mag.shtml)




Enjoy...:D

breg
02-15-2004, 05:17 AM
That was really cool, thank you for posting it.

Brophog
02-15-2004, 05:23 AM
Seeing that article again brings back memories.

Miscue
02-15-2004, 08:01 AM
Great link!

FreakBaller12
02-15-2004, 10:01 AM
wow that was a really cool article, nice job Tom. Nice find too.I enjoyed reading it:) b/c i wasn't playign when all this happened.

Mango
02-15-2004, 10:15 AM
That was a good article! The interviewer asked some good questions.

NJPaint
02-15-2004, 10:59 AM
A very good read, glad I spent the time :)

Creative Mayhem
02-15-2004, 12:18 PM
Great find. I knew about a lot of that stuff, being that i was playing about the same time AGD started to make its upswing, but there was a lot of thing I didn't know in that article. Well, now I know. :) See? It is true... you do learn something new everyday :D

Jack & Coke
02-15-2004, 02:13 PM
thanks guys...:)

I really like Tom's 'scientific' and 'engineering' approach to testing out paintball theories.

Too bad much of todays products are based on marketing hype and not FULL TESTED engineering results.

Tom was the real deal back then, and still is today!:)

Meph
02-15-2004, 03:37 PM
That's a nice read, interesting how he thought about his design based on what he wanted to do different to a blowback. Rather than starting from scratch with a whole new idea/concept.

AGD
02-15-2004, 04:06 PM
I had completely forgotten that interview, it was even fun for me!

Thanks!

AGD

FlameboyC11
02-15-2004, 04:21 PM
Kinda interesting to see a perspective from back then. I like the part where Tom talks about the limit in balls per second *8 or 9*

hardr0ck68
02-15-2004, 05:15 PM
wow, i liked that....great article, and yeah its amazing how correct tom was on so many topics. the two things that stick out to me were the mentioned ROF, but yeah who could have sceen debounce settings and shot buffering and cheater toys? The other thing is air efficiency, which i think has improved a bit, with some people claiming 1500 shots off a 68 4500.


But yeah im sad the only thing we have is the "open class semi" because as it is players constantly chase technology (this is why a 2 year old angel is worth 400, because its not the "newest" technology) and yeah that will probably be the reason i quit (when im ready to).

Brophog
02-15-2004, 05:20 PM
Correct, hardr0ck68.

Its the reason a lot of people quit. They get fed up with the continuing arms race.

Sir_Brass
02-15-2004, 06:10 PM
Originally posted by Brophog
Correct, hardr0ck68.

Its the reason a lot of people quit. They get fed up with the continuing arms race.

heh, I'm out of the arms race and I'm STAYING out of the arms race. I've got my blazer and I'm happy with it.

I think that the players that stick around the longest are those who find their niche gun, love it's feel so much that almost anything different would make it a different gun to them. So they stick with exactly what they have and are good with it. It's what they constantly play with and they stay out of trying to get a 'better' gun, b/c to them, the gun they have IS the best gun.

Those are the players that stick around the longest: They have what they want exactly LIKE they want, and wouldn't change anything for the world, unless it was a true improvement on the features they liked in the first place.

Example: hardcore mag owners and PPS owners. We've got what we want, like we want it, and dang it, that isn't going to change :D.

AGDlover
02-15-2004, 07:36 PM
that was awsome TOM IS GOD BOW DOWN BEFORE HIM

Jack & Coke
02-15-2004, 08:06 PM
http://www.paintmagazine.com/cutecast/emoticons/bow.gif

Sir_Brass
02-16-2004, 01:17 AM
http://www.paintmagazine.com/cutecast/emoticons/bow.gifhttp://www.paintmagazine.com/cutecast/emoticons/bow.gifhttp://www.paintmagazine.com/cutecast/emoticons/bow.gifhttp://www.paintmagazine.com/cutecast/emoticons/bow.gifhttp://www.paintmagazine.com/cutecast/emoticons/bow.gifhttp://www.paintmagazine.com/cutecast/emoticons/bow.gifhttp://www.paintmagazine.com/cutecast/emoticons/bow.gifhttp://www.paintmagazine.com/cutecast/emoticons/bow.gif

AGD
02-16-2004, 02:16 AM
I missed the whole electro thing because I didn't think electronics would survive the environment. Remember back then we were still playing in the woods and crawling. Everyone thought "speedball" sucked.

The efficiency I was talking about was aimed at CO2 not HPA. You have to remember the times.

AGD

Jack & Coke
02-16-2004, 02:30 AM
Tom,

1. Do you think the "spirit and soul of paintball" is overall better "today", or "yesterday".

2. Do you think the emphasis of our sport is now "paintgun" as opposed to "paintball"?

Brophog
02-16-2004, 02:48 AM
I'm curious for Tom's opinion too, but I would like to comment as well.

As for spirit, I think its different now. To get a good idea of the spirit of old school paintball, look at the X-Games. Those guys are out there competing with one another, but yet have an appreciation for the other guys efforts and skills. How often do you hear one snowboarder throw compliments around about a buddy that threw down a great trick. It competitive, but really friendly at the same time. To me that describes old school paintball. You were out there having a great time, and while you wanted to win badly, you were still there more for the friendship and unique experience more than anything. We certainly didn't have as much poor sportsmanship as I see on today's local rec scenes.

As for the second question concerning paintgun or paintball. That's a really interesting question in this aspect. For as much as I seem to rant about today's current fascination with technology, paintball has always been about equipment and personalization. We would constantly tinker with this or that, trying to squeeze out what we considered more performance from our marker. We'd go semi to trump a friends pump, or we'd buy a mag to trump our friends cocker, and vice versa. That part of the game remains the same. I think perhaps the difference is that this has just been taken to another level. There are so many things you can do to your marker now that for some, you can literally make the hobby one of customization, without the need to go play the game. So I think that part of it is about the same, just more intense now.

AGD
02-16-2004, 05:00 AM
PaintGUN vs paintBALL is a good question and one that I have to think about. There are a couple of differences I see clearly.

In the old days there was a bigger skill set that players had to achieve because the woods fields were always different and unpredictable. Back then crawling, communication, rushes, timing, planning and walking fields were all areas to improve on and become expert at. No one could do all the jobs and you never had the same field twice. How fast you ran or shot was not a top reason to be on a team. As a comparison, if you took woods ball players from that time and put them in airball fields they could hang tough. If you took hot shot airball players and stuck them in the woods they would be clueless and get destroyed instantly. Airball is a subset of woodsball with additional emphasis on speed and firepower, thats why everyone is so young.

That being said I like airball better than woods ball. Its more immediate and intense. The older I get the more I just want the quick fix :)

Concerning the arms race I think the techno competition is great and interesting if it’s a real competition. The disgusting part is that its no longer really about technology its about “NEW”. If you rubber stamp the “new and improved technology” banner on whatever the hell you come out with today’s players just slurp it up. If this was a real technology race you would see a variety of products in use as new evolutions were being experimented with. In the days of the real paintball arms race you could see pumps with stick loaders next to semis with agitated hoppers on the same field.

In reality most all tourney guns today are electro-pneumatic hammer valves that all hang on the same branch of the family tree. Going from an agitated hopper to a force fed hopper is about as technological as going from a mechanical fuel pump to an electric one. You can argue that the firepower has now reached 20 bps which is certainly an incredible rate but its not done by anything very legitimate. Additional evidence of a lack of technology is that every new gun is first and foremost critiqued on its looks not on its gagitude.

My best guess right now is that the future direction of paintball is unpredictable. In a few years we could just as easily be back to pumps or shooting 30 bps.... you all are going to decide.

AGD

shades
02-16-2004, 09:46 AM
So Why dont I see a panther in the AGD museum?
I would love to see an AGD blowback.