Why don't more people use warps?

[FlameboyC11]

I posted a similar question over at pbnation, and I got alot of the same response ("it looks gay, it unbalances the gun, it makes your gun a brick, it doesn't work, etc."). Just to give myself, and maybe some other people some perspective, I thought I'd ask here too. Why don't more people use Warps?

[Vash02]

I've often wondered that same thing myself and here are the few things that i came up with.

Some people like to shoot using both hands and it really can be hard or even impossible for guys with bigger hands to get their hands between the warp and the trigger frame.

Also, some people just dont like the "cubish" feeling of a marker that is hooked up with a warp.

[SuiciDal Sn Y p ER]

you havn't been to a AO meet or AO day have you? I see warps everywhere, even on impulses and other markers!

But imo i think warps make your gun weight a lot. That's the reason i sold it but now i regret it, im purchasing another warp :)

Another thing is probably the balance, but ever since i've been using the warp i didnt notice any big complications.

[TheDoveDecends]

i dont like them.. because i do like to shoot with both hands, and i am a big guy.. with huge hands. Plus they do add weight, and unbalance.

[RRfireblade]

it looks (EDITTED)bulky and un-attractive, it unbalances the gun, it makes your gun a brick,


Some people like to shoot using both hands and it really can be hard or even impossible for guys with bigger hands to get their hands between the warp and the trigger frame.


some people just dont like the "cubish" feeling of a marker that is hooked up with a warp.

That's a start. :)

Simply,it's a personal preferance.I tried one a while ago and just don't like it.The feel,the weight,the balance,the look,the added complexity,the apperance of clutter,the limitations it adds to the guns,the extra batteries etc.

Just not for me.

If you like it,go for it and don't worry what other people think.;)

[Doc Nickel]

You mean Warp setups like this?

http://www.docsmachine.com/galleries/timwarp2.jpg

Doc.

[CodeMA]

I have grown partial to my warp... Ive learned to not shoot both hands and just tilt it... works great... feels natural too, just takes some getting use too at first...

any other marker without it, I still switch hands, with warp ya dont need it...

I dont notice the extra weight to bad, nor does it off balance it IMO

EDIT: just saw body Doc posted.... OMFG....sweetness... Empire milling? Looks ausome

[barberjohn]

i think that they are too restricting, and make your marker weigh more and feel wierd, but thats just IMHO. everyone has their own opinion, but not being able to shoot with both hands will probably be the most likely one you will get.

[felony]

i am a righty person, but i have learned to walk and shoot almost better lefty. I don't know why but i have seen that with alot of other people too.

I have yet to try a warp, but really want to.

One question though..

Since you can't switch hands you need to tilt to shoot on your off hand, correct? what does this mean for total shots fired? So lets say my warp is set up on the right side and i lean on the right. My revy will stop feeding at a certain angle, what happens when that paint is gone? I have to sit being the bunker and re-prime it?

That seems kinda odd.. but this is how i invision it.

Oh and is really that hard to adjust to different paints and what not?

can you mix paints?

LMK

dan

[Halliday]

I don't like having yet another apparatus to possibly malfuntion on my marker.

[theraidenproject]

I used a warp exclusively for two years. I loved it, and hated hoppers. Didn't mind the weight, didn't think it balanced weird, liked not switching hands, loved the profile. However, I got an Xmag on Thursday. No warp breech. So I played Saturday in a tourney for the first time without a warp in two years. I actually didn't miss it at all. I didn't get one hopper hit, either. I also found a way to shoot lefty without actually switching hands that worked great.
But back when I got it, the 12v was the speed king, and I could outshoot it even on my classic valved mag. Halo takes care of this problem, havn't noticed a difference (speed-wise) between a Halo on top or a 12v warp on the side. Also, the Xmag is such a dramatic weight difference from my old Emag, that dropping the warp at the same time made me not miss the extra pound. New warp breeches are apparently pretty far away, so I'll see how I play with the hopper until then, and then see if I want the warp back.

[QUINCYMASSGUY]

Doc, wouldn't that require a reflective eye instead of a break beam eye for the board? So people would have to use different boards? I don't think too many would be fond of getting that done to their empire timmy's due to cost but DAMN is that cool!

Top benefits of warp and why they're sort of obsolete or not worth it:

1.) Force feed functionality: I think hooking a Halo up directly instead of plugging it into the warp keeps a higher rate of ball feed.

2.) Profile: I understand the idea of it eliminating the high profile but at the same time it adds weight and makes one side of the gun's profile thicker. I'd be more likely to get a hopper shot coming around the side with a warp than over the top with a Halo. I prefer the thin profile and, with a low rise and no drop forward, the hopper doesn't rise much higher than your head.

So it's cool, but not worth the $125 or so I could invest in something else. Just my 2 cents.

[jimmyjobob]

id say preference....and position.

had one, liked it. just seemed that the weight became more of an issue than the balance. couldnt maneuever as easily. i also bought them before the level 10 so it seemed that i had less breaks with the warp than just a standard rev . now, theres no need. overall a lighter setup.

if you were a back player (with a bunch of paint) maybe better. might not be such a problem.

[TransMan]

Im too poor to buy one. :(

[MMM]

I found one on sale new for $69 so I bought it. Hooked it up to the viking last weekend and I loved it. Here are the caveats (they are long, sorry):

1. I'm a little woman, my arms are weak. After a day with the balance of a hopper on top I couldn't hold the set up any more. I'd have to prop my right arm under the tank and puch up or it wasn't going anywhere. Sad but true and yes I tried a variety of different drop set ups. The warp completely ridded me of this problem, the weight distribution, way completely different and my arms never got tired. That's saying a lot since my husband was whining about the weight when he took it to get an air fill. Whiney front players, he probably would complain about carrying all my paint if he had too.

2. I'm a back player, I couldn't imagine crawling with that thing sticking out, it'd be a real pain. I'm sure there are front/mid players that have made their way around it but I wouldn't do it. Front player are snap shooters and don't hang out a lot. Back players are supposed shoot streams and having a smaller profile helps get those extra few shots off.

3. I have the patience to get a complicated set up working. There were technical difficuties the first day, I won't even bore you any more than I already have with the details. That said, if you're a young kid with little patience just don't even bother trying.

[JuggaloDave]

i dont use one cause the cost as a main factor, i have never used one, and i dont have 130 bux for something i may not like having. it seems like it would be a lil ackward due to the way i like to shoot, which is with my left hand supporting most of the weight, and my right hand is triggering, but i use my middle and ring finger to walk or shoot normally, so i dont think i could ever go to using one hand. the concept is awsome, and i love the way they look even, i just couldnt use one.

[FlameboyC11]

Wow, very different responses! Thanks guys!

btw, here's the pbnation thread in case anybody cares. http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=418501

[Miscue]

That thread is painful to read. This "can't shoot left-handed" thing is retarded... YOU DON'T NEED TO! The extra side profile, also retarded. The "unbalanced" thing I'm getting tired of seeing... along with the added "weight."

I think the Warp is tactically one of the best things for your marker. One of the first things I noticed about playing against people with warps, is that I had a hard time seeing them. There was no flag coming out to warn you... To me, that is WAY more important than the reduced target area.

Part of the problem, I think are the setups where the warp is WAY to the left, unlike my EMag and those setup well: <img src="../~Miscue/cp2mag.jpg">

This is NOT in the way for me at all. I can run with it just fine, perfectly comfortable with it. I don't understand why people have a problem with it... it's in their heads is what it is.

I was talking to SkyBoy about this, and once our team gets going I think we will have a Warp Feed trial period requirement - you have to at least give it a couple months before deciding against it... and we'll give you crap about it forever. :) It's too much of a tactical advantage to pass off, because one is not "comfortable" with it.

[Dayspring]

I agree. I'm considering going back to shooting warp. At least for the Emag (considering it's got a warp ULE on it, I think it's permanent now). I think the Xmag may stay vert for a while.

But Q's right. The tactical advantage and total mind-screw that you give another team when you walk on and they can no longer see you is great.

[nuclear zombie]

my three reasons for not using a warp :

1. Weight :It's easy to get use to the balance but the overall weight wears on me through out the day.
2. Batteries : I know AGD makes a quality product however it's another thing that could go wrong and I seem to be a prime example of murphy's law.
3. Connection : Unless I go and buy a ULE warp body , or an X-mag , Then I don't have a gun to take full advantage of the warp system . Personally I don't care much for having the elbow tube thing on top of my gun , to me it somewhat defeats the point of using a warp feed .

My conclusion : In order for this system to become my primary feed system it would have to be a single warp-hopper unit with one battery pack . By doing this it would be come an overall lighter system, more reliable This in turn would make reason #3 a moot point because I would be happy to buy a Warp ULE body , if the warp system evolved.

[Miscue]

Originally posted by Dayspring
I agree. I'm considering going back to shooting warp. At least for the Emag (considering it's got a warp ULE on it, I think it's permanent now). I think the Xmag may stay vert for a while.

But Q's right. The tactical advantage and total mind-screw that you give another team when you walk on and they can no longer see you is great.

You know the Warp works, when the other team is incredibly annoyed that you have them. I have a feeling, that the more teams use warps... the more people will hate playing against them. And then maybe they will understand the value... and realize whatever minor short-comings it has is dwarfed by its advantages.

[pb4jc]

I kindof agree w/ Q although you do notice it when you first pick the marker up to walk on the field once you are out there and playing i don't remember ever thinking man this thing is a tank. But I am a hypocrite in the sense that i sold my Warped ULE Retro mag and Bought an E-Mag and am now in the process of making it ULE. I think in the future my next setup i will own will be an X-Mag w/ both breeches. That way you can use both depending on where(position) and who you are playing. just my $0.02

[Miscue]

The first thing you notice when you pick up a warped marker is: Whoa, this is different. And instantly it's disliked by some people. I think the negative opinions come from those who have never used it, or did not give it a chance. I also think that a lot of times the warp isn't set up on the marker very well, making it unnecessarily awkward. Like, the pictures of a warp a half foot away from the marker... what are you thinking? Of course that will suck.

A lot of times I've seen: I bought it, used it once, didn't like it, sold it. That to me... is just dumb. :p

I think of it like... there are disadvantages to using a stick shift. But once you get used to it, you'll find it's way better for racing. And, I think that people give up on the warp before they figure out how to balance the clutch, if you know what I mean.

[C_22]

I don´t have an X-Mag warpfeed breech module. If I had one I'm sure to give the warpfeed a try. Last I heard those modules could not be purchased seperately after you had purchased ur X-Mag untill the year 3214 or something like that :(

[hitech]

Originally posted by Miscue
It's too much of a tactical advantage to pass off, because one is not "comfortable" with it.

That would sum it up for me. I won't play without it. :D

[hitech]

Originally posted by nuclear zombie
In order for this system to become my primary feed system it would have to be a single warp-hopper unit with one battery pack.

Well, if you are using an eMag you can run the eMag, warp and hopper on the eMags battery. And with a drilled hopper it's like a single unit. ;)

[UltimatePaintballer]

I like the warps, but only on mags. i don't have a mag so there is one reason i don't use it. another reason is the extra batteries to buy. i dont feel lik wasting 10+ dollars on 9v's every 1-2 times i go playing. otherwise if i had a mag, i would consider buying one.

[Patron God of Pirates]

I like the Warp but I have a few of problems with it.

1) With my E-Mag, I no longer have the ability to switch from E-Mode to Manual. The vibration sensor is just to unreliable with the almost non-existant recoil of the LX.

2) It Jams. Not often, but always at the worst possible time.

3) Something else to think about while I'm trying to play.

If I play with it for to long it makes me want to use my RTP instead.

[845]

I dont like the feel of having the gun leaning to one side all the time plus it adds a ton of weight. Also its just soemthing else to go wrong with the gun.

[jayloo]

I have shot a warp for the last 1.5 years. I loved it. I am currently training myself to shoot a regular vert setup. In a month or so Im gonna go back to warp perminately.

Asking why more folks dont shoot with warps is the same as asking why more folks dont drive german made cars.

ITS ALL PERSONAL PREFERENCE!!!!

[Miscue]

Originally posted by jayloo

ITS ALL PERSONAL PREFERENCE!!!!

Agreed... some prefer to be at a tactical disadvantage. :)

[hAppy]

Originally posted by FlameboyC11
I posted a similar question over at pbnation, and I got alot of the same response ("it looks gay, it unbalances the gun, it makes your gun a brick, it doesn't work, etc."). Just to give myself, and maybe some other people some perspective, I thought I'd ask here too. Why don't more people use Warps? its an inconvenience

i get annoyed cus my hand cant get around it and get a good feel of a foregrip

its kinda bulky

it limits to which side you can shoot out

[Miscue]

Originally posted by xXhAppyAznXx
its an inconvenience

it limits to which side you can shoot out

I'd argue the opposite. You can use more parts of the bunker w/o your hopper sticking out.

Righty shooting out the left:


Also, consider that this picture is taken from his right side. Players down field will see only the top of his head and barrel, the hopper will be completely concealed.

<img src="http://www.automags.org/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=892160">

[RoadDawg]

Personally I don't want people to use warps. It gives me a small edge. I can shoot out both sides on my nicely balanced Warp ULE'd Emag. I get all sorts of complaints/comments about it on the field and it makes me smile. I just hate it when it's warp vs warp. :(

[Miscue]

Originally posted by RoadDawg
Personally I don't want people to use warps. It gives me a small edge. I can shoot out both sides on my nicely balanced Warp ULE'd Emag. I get all sorts of complaints/comments about it on the field and it makes me smile. I just hate it when it's warp vs warp. :(

Hehe, I agree. I almost don't want people to use it, as long as I can.

I like to shoot from the very bottom of the bunker sometimes. Nobody shoots from there... how could you? I think it's a lot easier to play a snake with a warp, because you have to play from awkward positions and you can do so and stay tight.

On regular bunkers I'll mix it up, top - bottom - middle. If someone is paying close attention to me, I'd rather that they have to take a bit more time having to adjust their aim. You know those machines where you beat the gophers that pop out with the hammer... it's a lot harder when they are coming from different directions than if the same gopher came out the same hole everytime.

Another thing is, playing both sides of your bunker rapidly. You gonna switch hands 50 times? Or just tilt back and forth, taking very little time to do this? Especially with a dorito...

[RoadDawg]

Originally posted by Miscue


Hehe, I agree. I almost don't want people to use it, as long as I can.

I like to shoot from the very bottom of the bunker sometimes. Nobody shoots from there... how could you? I think it's a lot easier to play a snake with a warp, because you have to play from awkward positions and you can do so and stay tight.

On regular bunkers I'll mix it up, top - bottom - middle. If someone is paying close attention to me, I'd rather that they have to take a bit more time having to adjust their aim. You know those machines where you beat the gophers that pop out with the hammer... it's a lot harder when they are coming from different directions than if the same gopher came out the same hole everytime.

Another thing is, playing both sides of your bunker rapidly. You gonna switch hands 50 times? Or just tilt back and forth, taking very little time to do this? Especially with a dorito...
Agreed. I'd rather roll the marker and shoot out both sides quickly then switch hands and waste those precious mili seconds. I mix it up as often as I can but I feel it's easier to snap shoot with the warp then without. They only see my barrel instead of the hopper/barrel combo. I was kind of worried at the AO CA meet that there would be more warps but very few were there. Which made me happy and even fewer were on Emags. (Hitech is the only one I think of besides mine).

I do agree that dorrito bunkers are best suited for the warps. That slant can show your hopper quickly and it stinks. I've tried going to no warp setups but I get tagged on the hopper 4 of the 5 times. So I went back to warped setups and have eliminated that hopper hits. Now it's barrel hits and that's my own fault for keeping it there so long.

[tony3]

I used to own a warp, I had it for a 2 weeks. I broke the battery wires in it 3 times:( It also just added another thing that could go wrong with my gun. It also added a lot of weight to my gun that wasn't needed. I prefer a straight up hopper, I rarely get hopper hits anyway.

[RoadDawg]

Originally posted by tony3
I used to own a warp, I had it for a 2 weeks. I broke the battery wires in it 3 times:( It also just added another thing that could go wrong with my gun. It also added a lot of weight to my gun that wasn't needed. I prefer a straight up hopper, I rarely get hopper hits anyway.
I've heard several people cry about the battery wires and yet I've had one problem (bought it used and it came with a broken wire). Other then that I've had no problems with any of it. Other then loosing the springs when I clean it but now that it's intellilinked I don't need those. The weight isn't that big of an issue with me. Ya it's an extra 15 oz but on the right setup it balances out the marker. It is personal preferences but Tony I don't think 2 weeks is enough time to get accustomed to the warp. I had it for at least 3 weeks before I finally learned how to use it correctly and to my advantage. I will say though. If people don't want them that's fine. I'll have that little extra help on my side.

[RRfireblade]

Originally posted by Miscue


Agreed... some prefer to be at a tactical disadvantage. :)

I don't agree.It's only "possible" advantage is hopper profile.Your picture is a perfect example,no hopper yes, but what's right behind it? Your head.;)Ultimately there's really no diffence there,just all the other added negatives.(weight,bulk,potential failure etc.)

Like I said before,if you like it,great.But your just as bad for saying "if you don't like it your wrong", as much as those who argue against it based on "thier" preference.

[Creative Mayhem]

I love my warp. Nuff said. I won't go saying everything everyone else has said about the balance, wieght, etc. I will simply say, LIFT SOME WIEGHTS GIRLYMAN!:D That will take care of those problems. The only issue I have ever had with my warp was prolonged usage, like playing a scenario with it. At Shatnerball, or when playing a day long game, the warp setup will get heavier than normal. I prolly could have switched my xmag over to vert, but I didn't... I toughed it out you little GIRLMEN! ;) In scenario/bussh play, the warp's profile advantage aren't really needed, due to the fact that most of the bush play will be a long ball type of play, not to mention all the brush and foliage in the way to help conceal you.

Warps were made for AIRBALL, while you could go either way for scenario, provided you are man enough to carry the weight all day. LIFT SOME WIEGHTS YOU LTTTLE GIRLYMEN!!!! :D

[Tyger]

it's like playing stock class with a semi. No hopper on top, so I cna use the TOP of a bunker easily and not get hit. There's also the weird angles I put myself into to soot, that I couldn'd do with a regualr hopper. Then there's the ROF issues too. But the one reason to have a warp?

It's just FREAKING COOL!

I've got mine set up with a Richochet hopper, tucks it nicely out of the way. I've got big hands too, and it works for me. Thought about bolting a Halo on there, but why bother? I'm not outshooting this rig yet...

-Tyger

[Tyger]

Originally posted by Creative Mayhem
I love my warp. Nuff said. I won't go saying everything everyone else has said about the balance, wieght, etc. I will simply say, LIFT SOME WIEGHTS GIRLYMAN!:D
...
Warps were made for AIRBALL, while you could go either way for scenario, provided you are man enough to carry the weight all day. LIFT SOME WIEGHTS YOU LTTTLE GIRLYMEN!!!! :D

The warp is heavy? Geez... You mean all this time I've been playing with BRASS paintguns is paying off? Sheesh! I've used my Warped E-mag in woods games a lot, it didn't SEEM heavy.... It seemed downright comfortable at Shatnerball... Comfy 'nuff to crawl around and shoot Canadians...

**runs and hides**

-Tyger

[Miscue]

If you see pictures of people trying to hide their hopper behind their bunker, look how awkward they look. Look where their elbows are, and their shoulders, and what sticks out in order to hide the hopper... and the odd ways they hold their markers - that can't be comfortable. They have to do a contortionist act... it seems. This problem is non-existant with a warp. It's easy to keep your elbows and shoulders in, and keep everything behind the bunker... it's not just your hopper that stays concealed.

It's just a matter of quickly pivoting your marker with a warp, you don't have to change how you hold your marker.

[RoadDawg]

Originally posted by Tyger

I've got mine set up with a Richochet hopper, tucks it nicely out of the way. I've got big hands too, and it works for me. Thought about bolting a Halo on there, but why bother? I'm not outshooting this rig yet...

-Tyger

That's how I run my setup. The Rico fits closer w/o modding then any other hopper. I've tried putting my TSA and Halo A on the warp setup but it just doesn't come out right. I do use the TSA when I need the extra paint (backman version) and I use the Rico 2k when I'm up front (beeps every 150 shots telling me to reload). I couldn't be happier with that setup.

[tony3]

Originally posted by RoadDawg

I've heard several people cry about the battery wires and yet I've had one problem (bought it used and it came with a broken wire). Other then that I've had no problems with any of it. Other then loosing the springs when I clean it but now that it's intellilinked I don't need those. The weight isn't that big of an issue with me. Ya it's an extra 15 oz but on the right setup it balances out the marker. It is personal preferences but Tony I don't think 2 weeks is enough time to get accustomed to the warp. I had it for at least 3 weeks before I finally learned how to use it correctly and to my advantage. I will say though. If people don't want them that's fine. I'll have that little extra help on my side.

I think my battery wires were re-soldered before I got it, so they were weaker already, but it was a problem with me and I didn't feel like dealing with it every time I wanted to play. I had used a warp before I bought mine, I borrowed a teammates for 2 days of play. I just didn't like the extra pound when I'm running 50. I like putting my hopper on, turning my gun on, and playing, the warp didn't let me do this.

[RRfireblade]

Originally posted by Miscue
If you see pictures of people trying to hide their hopper behind their bunker, look how awkward they look. Look where their elbows are, and their shoulders, and what sticks out in order to hide the hopper... and the odd ways they hold their markers - that can't be comfortable. They have to do a contortionist act... it seems. This problem is non-existant with a warp. It's easy to keep your elbows and shoulders in, and keep everything behind the bunker... it's not just your hopper that stays concealed.

It's just a matter of quickly pivoting your marker with a warp, you don't have to change how you hold your marker.

I really don't see why you'd have to do any of that,but my point was where is your head when you shoot? Warp or not,it's right behind your gun offering the same target as a hopper.Just as in the pic you posted.Seems to me that the warp only gives you a false sense of security if you think your head is not a target because of it.;)

[Creative Mayhem]

Originally posted by Tyger


The warp is heavy? Geez... You mean all this time I've been playing with BRASS paintguns is paying off? Sheesh! I've used my Warped E-mag in woods games a lot, it didn't SEEM heavy.... It seemed downright comfortable at Shatnerball... Comfy 'nuff to crawl around and shoot Canadians...

**runs and hides**

-Tyger

*waiting for Tyger in his hiding spot RATATATATAT(I'm psychic EH:D)*

I have the mini all warped, so I know about heavy. But by the end of the 8hr day, if you haven't put the setup down for any length of time, it can and will get heavier. Now I didn't say that you wouldn't be able to carry it another second, it would just get noticably heavier. ;)

[personman]

I hate it when people say warps are bulky, and they get in the way. I love warps. I had a warp two years ago, but I diddnt know how to play with it. I thought it was cool, but then after still getting hit in the hopper, I decided I diddnt like it. Turns out I just diddnt know how to play with it. There is a certian style you can adapt with a warp. You lean out of a bunker, tilting your gun. The warp force feeds. You have plenty of shots before you have to tip back in and prime again. You can shoot both lefty and righty, simply by tilting your gun 90*. Its that simple, and some people dont even realise it. As for the battery snaps, I dont know why people break them so often. I could see maybe a special ed or <10 y/o person breaking them, but honestly, if you know how to remove a battery, and it isnt that hard, then you shouldnt have a problem. I drew a diagram for those who are a bit slow :)
http://server5.uploadit.org/files/personmanAO-wires.JPG

Now thats not hard to do, is it? Also dont let your 9vs dangle off when you remove the battery door.

Oh, the warp is heavy? Give me a break. It wieghs like what, less than a pound? I'm 14, I wiegh 125, I have girly arms. If I can carry a gun with a warp all day, so can you. Stop whining. Edit Edit: I would also like to add that I was easily bunkering people (I think I got 2) and I was getting to the 50 very easally.

Meh I think I'm done ranting.

Last time I played (my first time with my warp on this gun) I got MANY MANY complements on my playing. I think thats one of the first times I've ever gotten a complement on my playing. Everyone was saying I was the best out there on the field :p Not to brag.
I think the warp has helped me alot.

Edit:
It seems I'm not done ranting. I noticed RRFireblade pointing out, your head is just where your hopper was. Not really. I dont know about you but my head is defentally not right behind my hopper when I play. That would prevent me from seeing who im shooting at. :p

Let me add another one of my awesome illustrations.

http://server5.uploadit.org/files/personmanAO-compact.JPG

I guess that kind of illistrates my point.

[Gunga]

Another Warp advantage that I didn't see mentioned is the clearer/wider view you have. No stinkin blimp in the way of your line of sight. :)

[hitech]

I, too, am glad more people don’t like warps. I’d hate to have to play against them. I also thought it was going to be an issue at the AO days. Somehow I managed to never have to shoot against one. ;) I don’t know how I avoided that. What those who shoot against someone with a warp say are the most convincing arguments. :D

[Brophog]

I don't think your getting "Artist of the Week" nominations with that work, Personman. :) :)

[personman]

http://server5.uploadit.org/files/personmanAO-awft.JPG

[hitech]

Originally posted by Creative Mayhem
In scenario/bussh play, the warp's profile advantage aren't really needed...Warps were made for AIRBALL...

Everyone says/thinks that. However, I got the warp FOR woodsball. That's all I played at the time. I thought it gave me a bigger advantage than ANY other upgrade would. :D I still thought it after I got it. :D

[jeffremiller]

Worst thing in the world is to play against another warped team...

I remember the SuperTour weekend a few years back... All warps at Country Club and it was wild.

I love my warps... now that I'm used to them, if I run vert, I try tipping the gun over to shot and it doesn't feel.

J_

[Miscue]

Originally posted by RRfireblade


I really don't see why you'd have to do any of that,but my point was where is your head when you shoot? Warp or not,it's right behind your gun offering the same target as a hopper.Just as in the pic you posted.Seems to me that the warp only gives you a false sense of security if you think your head is not a target because of it.;)

Absolutely not, this is not a false sense of security. Have you played against people with warps who know how to take advantage of them? Do you realize how much harder it is to see them? Particularly at distances, and when they are in peripheral vision - damned near invisible. A hopper being waved around offers a lot of contrast. A warp significantly cuts down what visual information you provide. Hopper hits are a minor issue to me. And I think it can be proven that a warp lets you use a lot more of your bunker... one of these days I might take some good photos of warp vs. no warp situations... I don't think anyone has really done a good job of this yet.

I think this is one of those things where, there is a learning curve involved in making use of the equipment. Like, if you hand an untrained person a high end bowling ball - they will suck with it and it could even be detrimental... of course they won't like it. You give someone fancy figure skates, and they still fall on their arses... they won't like this either. If I give someone my tournament paddle, they will have a hard time even hitting the table and complain that it is too hard to control...

The weight and whatever issue, these are things that can be overcome. And, when this happens... the disadvantages are gone and you are left with the advantages. I think that people make the mistake of expecting it to make everything instantly better, w/o having to work at it. The lack of instant gratification I believe is a big reason for why people who have tried it don't like the warp.

But of course, I don't think the warp is suited for everyone... and it makes perfect sense to prefer not to use it. Give someone a $300 cue, and they will suck just as bad as with a house cue. This sort of person does not need that kind of equipment, and I agree... that it very well could be detrimental for them to use it.

[Miscue]

Here's an example of where it sucks to have a hopper on top.

<img src="http://www.automags.org/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=891871">

[RRfireblade]

Originally posted by Miscue


Absolutely not, this is not a false sense of security.

Have you played against people with warps who know how to take advantage of them?

The security thing was just joking,hense the ;).

I've played against them,I can't say if they are using them to the fullest potential or not though.

I'm only saying,you have to see to shoot,I think we can agree on that.And most peoples heads are bigger than the average hopper,more contrasting in most cases and an overall better target.Any good player would probably agree that gogs are 90-95% of thier eliminations.

As far as the other,I think it's pretty rare in anything but woods ball that you either don't know or at least have a decent idea where your opponents are,and if you don't,your going to get spanked anyway.

[RRfireblade]

Originally posted by Miscue
Here's an example of where it sucks to have a hopper on top.



In that pic,his head would be higher than his barrel w/ a warp as well.

[SlartyBartFast]

Originally posted by RRfireblade
In that pic,his head would be higher than his barrel w/ a warp as well.

But his marker could be upright and held better.

[Miscue]

Originally posted by RRfireblade


In that pic,his head would be higher than his barrel w/ a warp as well.

But look how he has to hold his marker. With the way he's holding it, a warp would have a similar profile except he could hold it better.

[RoadDawg]

Originally posted by RRfireblade


In that pic,his head would be higher than his barrel w/ a warp as well.

I've been in similar positions with my warp and my head would be where his is but just like Miscue had pointed out I'd be holding it much easier.

[hitech]

Originally posted by Miscue
With the way he's holding it, a warp would have a similar profile except he could hold it better.

And would probably be more accurate. :eek:

Warpfeed, improves your accuracy! :p

[Miscue]

Originally posted by hitech


And would probably be more accurate. :eek:

Warpfeed, improves your accuracy! :p

Can probably shoot faster too. Also, his loader isn't going to work so well tilted like that.

[RRfireblade]

Originally posted by Miscue


But look how he has to hold his marker. With the way he's holding it, a warp would have a similar profile except he could hold it better.

Yeah,probably.

[SkyBoySurfer]

One of the biggest advateges that I see with the warp is this:


when your playing with a warp and have good form...all your oppent sees is your head..Now when you see a head barly comeing out of a bunker your thinking this..."he is recon and not shooting at me"..now when this happens...you may shoot 3-6 balls at hit just to see if you may get lucky hitting him and also to conserve paint on a non primary target...but your not trying that hard to get him out...your just trying to keep him in his bunker.

and when this happens your mind is not in elemination mode..its in suppesion mode....and this is why the warp has this awsome field advantage...becuse that person you you think is just looking at you....is actualy shooting you at 12-16bps and you have no idea untill thoes balls are hitting your bunker...and thats all it takes....

not only will it shock the hell out of you, that someone your looking right at is shooting at you when it doesint seem like he is...BECAUSE your going "HEY WHERE IS HIS GUN! I DONT SEE A HOPPER?!?!?"...but also when you suppress that person into his bunker and then wrap around yours....he can easy snap shoot you with out you haveing a chance on hiting him...simply becuse he has 1/3 of his mask popeing out the side of the bunker....and you have half your body around yours....

Another main adavntage is ...you no longer need to swich hands...you can heep your strong hand as well as line of sight...people say you have more profile when you try and shoot the other side of your bunker with a warp...but thats complete crap...you can hold your gun sideways...or even upside down with no problems what so ever, and still keep the same small profile as you would your strong side...and now you dont have any down time...you just keep shooting.

The warp feed to me is a very clear choice to have a suprime SUPERIORITY on the field.

but thats just my opinion I could be wrong.

[tony3]

You make some good points skysurfer, but I disagree with a few of them. If I see someones head I try to hit it with as many balls as needed. I don't fire 1 or 2 balls. Also, if I see someones head out, I'm ready for it to shoot at me. Also, for me atleast you can see the balls coming right at you giving you time to move out of the way. Next, I personally couldn't shoot a warp lefty, I felt like I was coming out of the bunker way to much. This is a great way to shoot lefty without switching hands, just need to move your left hand. http://www.warpig.com/paintball/tournament/mardigras/2004/gallery5/IMG3464.jpg Warps aren't for everyone, but there are some points that need improving imo.

[shades]

Weight: not an issue with me. My revy and warp run off of the Emag battery. If you do not have an E mag you can power both the revy and warp from the revy with that 12v warp upgrade. Which in turn would turn your warp off when you turn your revy off. The lack of two nine volts and 4 AA lighten up things alot. I am an old man of 37 and I can shoot this rig one handed if need be. I am sure you buff young gents benching 220 and curling 50+ can handle 1LB in two hands.:D

Balance: The weight is below the pivot point or points of your hands. Which is alot easier that balancing 2 Lbs of paint on top fo your gun.

Shooting Left: I'm not a pro. I'm not a lefty. I personally do not switch hands because of the warp IS in the way. BUT I dont have to. I just lay it down on its side an whale.

[Beemer]

Why don't more people use warps?

Because its an old school thing. All we ever wanted was the hopper off the top, any how any way.

Look at the box it comes in. It says right on it, mainly for old school players who wanted the hopper off the top.
Some of the new school get it but not many.

Its a Paradigm Shift that is stuck some where in a warp.

Its all perspective or perception.

Be Verstile, Modify, Adapt, Overcome.


http://home.comcast.net/~ineedspeednow/WarpTest.gif

[Chojin Man]

Originally posted by felony
One question though..

Since you can't switch hands you need to tilt to shoot on your off hand, correct? what does this mean for total shots fired? So lets say my warp is set up on the right side and i lean on the right. My revy will stop feeding at a certain angle, what happens when that paint is gone? I have to sit being the bunker and re-prime it?

That seems kinda odd.. but this is how i invision it.

Oh and is really that hard to adjust to different paints and what not?

can you mix paints?

LMK

dan

Ya if you shoot on the side that the warp is on then you pretty much have to tilt it; to keep the warp from sticking out, and re-prime the warp. Only real disadvantage I see with it. Anyone have a fix for this?

You don't have to do any adjustments when you switch paint sizes. Sometimes the disks need to be flipped after time, but that is no biggie.

It's not recommended that you use mixed paint with it. I have never really tried it with mixed so I can't say how well it does or doesn't work.




Originally posted by JuggaloDave

i dont use one cause the cost as a main factor, i have never used one, and i dont have 130 bux for something

Holy cow where are you buying from! I got my warp NIB for $55 on Ebay. That is the main reason I got one was b/c it is half as much as a halo. I kept outshooting my 12vRevvy and needed something cheap to boost my bps.


Problems that I have experienced:

The battery wires stink!!! They were broken straight out of the box!:mad: I fixed them myself and haven't had any breaks yet.

Shooting on the side that the warp is on...having to tilt the gun so that my hopper can't load is a pain. Maybe I'm using a bad technique?

Other than that no real disadvantage for me.

Someone mentioned that a new design-combining the warp with a hopper into one unit- would be better. I would agree with that statement. Probably never going to happen though.

[tony3]

I personally don't see what the big deal is about tilting your hopper inwards to the bunker? Unless you are using a revvy it shouldn't be to much of a problem unless you are tilting it at 80*'s:rolleyes: Also, My hopper does not extend past my head. If I get hit in the hopper which is pretty rare, I would of got hit in the goggles anyways, so it's not a big deal. People in 96 didn't have good forcefeed hoppers, and used high rises. Now with better loader technology we can have no rises and we can tilt our guns at more dramatic angles. Warps were a great thing, but due to recent ideas/technology, they aren't needed imo.

[Wes Janson]

I must agree with RR, sure, you can't see his hopper, but you can still see the player's head plain as day. Now it just means he'll get gogged instead of taking a hit to the hopper. It's definitely of some advantage, but our giant brains and foreheads seem to be the real tactical disadvantage on the field. It's a matter of taste, and on some guns that weight is definitely going to be uncomfortable. I'm left handed, but my gun is a right-feed system. Even if I wanted to use a warp, it would probably do no more than make me an even larger target.

[personman]

Also You gotta admit that when coming over the top of a bunker, your profile is going to be dramatically larger than it would be with a warp. Theres no way around that :D
Well, warps are kind of an oppinion style thing. I personally think that warp feeds are NOT outdated. They beat the hell out of a Q loader, thats for sure, and thats brand spanking new technology. But really the only reasons I would take a warp over a q loader is because I know its quality, its cheaper, and has a greater carrying capacity for when I want to play hopperball.

[jayloo]

I like being the only warp on the field most of the time.

It always makes me smile when I hear folks say crap about my warp. This usually happens after I gog them.

Again it is all personal preference....get over it.

[Lethargic]

Well, I'm going to take up the opposition stance here. I used a warp for over 6 months, and I sold it as soon as AGD offered us classic RT owners an upgrade program. Don't get me wrong; I love the warp feed, and the idea behind it is sound, but they just don't fit me or my playing style.

The main problem I had was just keeping the thing intact. I went through 3 sets of shells in 6 months, all broken where they attach to the warp bracket. I resoldered every wire on the thing, because they all jostled off at one point or another. I even managed to crack one of the wheels one day! The warp was just not build to be slammed around on the ground. NO HOPPER/LOADER IS!!!! But the warp is the only one that places itself right down there on the side of the gun where I can smack it on things.

If you have the extra money, and feel like hurting your gun a bit, try doing a superman slide with your warpfed gun. Now do it again. And again. No matter how good you are, you WILL at some point hit/bounce/drag that warp along the ground. And the warp is plastic. And plastic doesn't like being smacked on the ground. So you end up with broken shells, which nobody wants, and a gun that will no longer work. And playing tournaments that really isn't acceptable. I have 7 minutes to do whatever it takes to clean the field and hang the flag, and a broken loader doesn't help me, does it?

Last of all, there is the reliability factor. Having 3 sets of batteries to check just isn't healthy. And two of the three (Warp and marker) would put me out of the game. It isn't idiotproof, and at this point, I will take something that might and I will say might give me a smaller profile when shooting. You can get mighty good at hiding your hopper if you know what you are doing. I seriously doubt that my warp made me much (if any) smaller of a target than my current setup.

Don't get me wrong, I realy do like the warp, at least in principle. If there ever was a warp/hopper, I'd be very tempted to check it out. And in the end, all it boils don to is personal preference. And I prefer my wimpy, backwards, easy-target to your new-fangled contraptions, m-kay?!:D

[edweird]

wow ive put my 2 warps though hell and back and havent managed to break anything other than a battery wire on them.

anyhow as a pro warp user...

weight: Um I load Missles ... by hand ... over my head ... all day long... for a living. The weight added by useing a warp ISNT an issue, and if it is go to the gym :P

awkwardness: I suggest playing with it for some time before ya pass that judgment on it.

[FlameboyC11]

Does anybody use their warp w/ a non-electro frame gun? I know a majority of mag users don't have e-frames, but do *they* use warps? I'm thinking of getting one for my orracle, but I don't have a race or e-blade yet.

[nuclear zombie]

Originally posted by Lethargic

The main problem I had was just keeping the thing intact. I went through 3 sets of shells in 6 months, all broken where they attach to the warp bracket.

That's where mine kept breaking , after the second shell broke I took it off and never weent back.

[trains are bad]

Your picture is a perfect example,no hopper yes, but what's right behind it? Your head.

Yes, a head with eyes in it that can see to shoot. If I can have the same profile and get a wider field of vision, It's good. You imply that with a hopper, it the hopper wouldn't matter because it would be in front of his face; if it's in front of his face, he can't see as well. It's important to not get marked, but you also have to mark the other guy(s).

I don't have a warp btw.

[deadeye9]

I like the warp because it allows me to sight down the top of the barrel (when used with a warp ULE or warp breech). This puts my first shot closer (if not on) the target. With vertical feeds, you have to sight down the side of the barrel or move your sight line back and forth around the feed neck. With vertical feeds you do more "walking" the paint to the target.

[Strider]

Originally posted by Creative Mayhem
In scenario/bussh play, the warp's profile advantage aren't really needed, due to the fact that most of the bush play will be a long ball type of play, not to mention all the brush and foliage in the way to help conceal you.Hehe, actually Shatnerball last year I convinced Mike to get a Warp eventually. It was when I was crawling through the long grass on Shatners team side of the big field, bottom of my chin to the ground and still firing acuratly since my warped emag was pointed upright. :)

[RoadDawg]

Originally posted by FlameboyC11
Does anybody use their warp w/ a non-electro frame gun? I know a majority of mag users don't have e-frames, but do *they* use warps? I'm thinking of getting one for my orracle, but I don't have a race or e-blade yet.
I ran one on my Minimag RT for a year or so til I went Emag.

Having 3 sets of batteries to check just isn't healthy. And two of the three (Warp and marker) would put me out of the game.

That's why I plan on running mine through my emag battery. That way only my hopper and my emag batteries will have to be fresh.

[Crazy]

uh, because they're gay.

[Bolter]

ok ok two things.

#1 in a bunker the warp is by far the best thing out there (please try for a couple of months before you give up)

#2 moving and shooting on field centre feed is best

BUT, it is something I did not think I would get used to but when you do.....ohhh man! :p