Tournament rules need fixing

[Patron God of Pirates]

The original purpose of not allowing full auto was to protect players from potential mask removing streams of paint. At the time, full auto was 11-13 bps. Now we have electros in semi mode pushing 20bps!

So what is the point of the no full auto rule?

It seems to me there are two options; Cap the allowed bps, or anything goes.

Personally I'd prefer to see a cap at 11-13 bps. I think amount of paint in the air at todays fields takes away from the game, even slowing it down.

On the other hand, if you're not going to cap the bps, then there is no need for a 1 pull 1 shot rule.

What do you folks think?

[Crazy]

i think your complaining because you either:
1)can't shoot that fast
2)can't afford to shoot paint that fast

[Patron God of Pirates]

Actually I make pretty good money, shoot an E-Mag and do it fast enough to get checked for bounce on a regular basis.

There are those here who can vouch for me, but that is irrelevant.

The point is that at the ROF people are getting in semi mode, the rule is obsolite

[RRfireblade]

Originally posted by Patron God of Pirates

The point is that at the ROF people are getting in semi mode, the rule is obsolite

People aren't shooting that fast.It's the rule for a legal marker/trigger set up that need adjusting.

[Wc Keep]

Originally posted by Crazy
i think your complaining because you either:
1)can't shoot that fast
2)can't afford to shoot paint that fast

this is a very poor comment to make and it should be erased.

pgop makes a very good point. the amount of bounce that guns are getting now-a-days is just like if it were in full auto. and many people out there do not know self control so that means that once a player is hit they still can get hit by 10+ balls,

[SlartyBartFast]

Well, I already started commenting the current rules, such as they are, and few showed interest.

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=124925

I started re-writing them and will make my version avaialble for critique. I had hoped discussion would allow me to gather more player input first though...

[FreakBaller12]

that's a very good point on bounce.
But i think FA is illegal for safety purposes, if you drop the gun it's going to fire your whole hopper as opposed to dropping a semi and it shooting one. ALthought boucne is becoming so bad there is a smaller and smaller difference every year, every month for that matter almost.


these are my own thoughts but:

i think somethign drastic is going to happen, something's gotta give with these WAS boards, deboucne settings and FA, something is gonna happen, and in a way it's going to define what paintball will become, wether NPPL PSP or a company for that matter makes the first huge stand on trigger bounce.

[50 cal]

Some players have trouble enough getting off the trigger fast enough to even consider allowing full auto. Someone is going to get a lens smashed by some trigger happy jerk.

Someone will still say "Can't stand the heat, get out of the game."

[Torbo]

guys.....theres been just about a million threads that discuss nearly the same thing.....

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=123210&highlight=bps

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=122309&highlight=bps

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=122280&highlight=bps

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=122272&highlight=bps

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=121204&highlight=bps

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=117140&highlight=bps

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=115962&highlight=bps


theres probably more.......what is it with AO and complaining about BPS?

[-=Squid=-]

Originally posted by Torbo
theres probably more.......what is it with AO and complaining about BPS? ... I once got temp banned for answering that question.

[Torbo]

which interests me....what is the anwser....i can think up alot of reasons, and of course no offense to AO. I can imagine what you said too........

[-=Squid=-]

Originally posted by Torbo
which interests me....what is the anwser....i can think up alot of reasons, and of course no offense to AO. I can imagine what you said too........ The fact that I dont think mags were meant to be electro, and I just dont think they measure up to other guns like timmies and vikings as far as speed. Obviously, since this is a primarily mag forum, this statement upsets a lot of people. They just dont seem to get I like emags just fine, and would gladly shoot one, and would rather interpret it like im bashing mags.

[Torbo]

agreed, same with e-cockers. I mean, ill be shooting one at skyball, and i like them, but thats not what theyre meant for.

anyway back to the topic.....bps isnt the problem really, people purposely overshooting others is. Although, that doesnt seem to be that horrible outside of x-ball anyway.

[Wc Keep]

Originally posted by -=Squid=-
The fact that I dont think mags were meant to be electro, and I just dont think they measure up to other guns like timmies and vikings as far as speed. Obviously, since this is a primarily mag forum, this statement upsets a lot of people. They just dont seem to get I like emags just fine, and would gladly shoot one, and would rather interpret it like im bashing mags.

i dont know what you are talking about. the emags that have the 4.0 software i think are shooting faster than the timmys with was. you can bash my mags all you want but i know that they shoot fast enough to get the eliminations i need. but this isnt the issue being brought up in this thread.

the issue is: what is the difference between a gun bouncing at 16 bps and a gun shooting f/a at 16 bps?

[trains are bad]

if you drop the gun it's going to fire your whole hopper as opposed to dropping a semi and it shooting one.

Please....that is a very ignorant statement. Realize that full auto could have a trigger approaching a pound of trigger weight no problem.



what is the difference between a gun bouncing at 16 bps and a gun shooting f/a at 16 bps?

the full auto one is safer and more controllable.


I do play on F/A, there's basically no difference.

[-=Squid=-]

Originally posted by Wc Keep


i dont know what you are talking about. the emags that have the 4.0 software i think are shooting faster than the timmys with was. you can bash my mags all you want but i know that they shoot fast enough to get the eliminations i need. but this isnt the issue being brought up in this thread.

the issue is: what is the difference between a gun bouncing at 16 bps and a gun shooting f/a at 16 bps? Told you people want to interpret it like im bashing mags, and I made it clear that I wasnt. Then he uses those exact words against me. Granted ive never seen 4.0. Out of curiousity, whats it capped at?

[M-a-s-sDriver]

How about this:
No cap on BPS.
Every trigger has a required pull wieght of 4 lbs. minimum, say 7/8 of an inch from the bottom of the trigger guard.
No minumum requirement for trigger pull length, anywhere on trigger surface.
Make it 2 lbs...or 6, whatever works.
This would prevent any accidental discharge, even in full auto, is easily verifiable in the field, and in semi-auto mode would most likely prevent extreme high rates of fire.
Fields or tournys could regulate the choice between full-auto, semi, pull weight, etc.
Particulars might have to be tweaked, but it would work.
Brent.

[Wc Keep]

Originally posted by -=Squid=-
Told you people want to interpret it like im bashing mags, and I made it clear that I wasnt. Then he uses those exact words against me. Granted ive never seen 4.0. Out of curiousity, whats it capped at?

i didnt say you were bashing mags. i said you can bash it all you want ill stand behind it.:D i do not know what it is capped at but it is damn fast. i think blazingace is about to outshoot his halo b.

[Torbo]

ok, more importantly....why isnt there one single
<Official whine about BPS here thread>

as i pointed out there are a ton, everything HAS been said before in the 7 other threads all in the past month.

[-=Squid=-]

Originally posted by Wc Keep


i didnt say you were bashing mags. i said you can bash it all you want ill stand behind it.:D i do not know what it is capped at but it is damn fast. i think blazingace is about to outshoot his halo b. ok ok, got it. Sorry for the confusion. Im gonna have to go out and try a 4.0 emag :D Didnt miscue write this software?

[wobbles82]

When you play, and when you watch these games that have cases of paint flying in the air you tend to realize..its not that bad of a problem. Full automatic guns can have a no control approach, how can somebody say that a semi is less controllable then a full? That makes no sense, especially considering that full auto markers will probably see faster wear than a semi, especially sear trippers I would assume, and wouldnt that also run the risk of losing control of the sear or whatnot, and totally tripping the gun to fire the whole hopper? Just a thought, but in essence full auto should never be allowed, and until we REALLY see that people are hitting 20+ consistently and we no longer see great players emerge without having to match this, then maybe we can have some fixing. Standard trigger pulls should never be applied because everybody is different, and you thereby make things even more unfair. The only thing we should be concerned about is OFFICIAL CHEATER BOARDS, not WAS or Debounce! If the Debounce is set approriately you will not get bounce, you might be a bit faster, but you will not get bounce. Tourneys such as NPPL required locked boards, I have been there, done that, and they have it under control, lets try to match this. True cheater boards such as some of those that people are packing on Speeds now, with hidden cheats and whatnot, find them and eliminate them. Something much worse than these crazy bounce boards is the ramping dwell, which is the thing that most cheater boards tend to incorporate. Address the things that can hurt people now, and then well address the other things that can hurt us when they are in clear view.

[1stdeadeye]

Originally posted by -=Squid=-
ok ok, got it. Sorry for the confusion. Im gonna have to go out and try a 4.0 emag :D Didnt miscue write this software?

Yes he did. It was recalled though for full auto issues. 4.01 will be ready soon!

As for fast shooting, what other marker out there can match the R/T for BPS without shootdown? Not CPS, but actual BPS? AGD has shown theirs at 36bps. Do a search!