E-mag. Is mech option important to you?

[Meph]

I'm just a little curious what a lot of people here think. I mean sure it's a nice feature to have, except how many times can people say that they've needed it? I don't know know about you but I always bring a couple backups, so I know I wouldn't need it in between games. And only 1 time have I ever had my Hypermag not work for me, and that was only because I needed to re-tweek tank input pressure to valve and the mag reg's inpute.


But if the E-mag could be made cheaper, lighter, use only 1 9volt instead of the big battery, and just as fast as any current or 4.0 mag out there. Would it be worth it to have that mechanical option removed completely?

[Brophog]

I don't own one, but I think its a nice feature that separates itself from other electros on the market. While a good number of people have multiple markers, its nice to know that you don't need to change to another marker when the battery goes down.

Personally, I prefer only shooting one marker. It takes me too long to adjust to another marker to play comfortably. With the mech option on the emag, you don't need to worry about that.

[gibby]

For me, I've had to rely on this feature before. Whether it was my batteries running out, or my solenoid going bad, having that trusty M mode allowed me to keep on playing and worry about things later.

Now, if you're going to take it out, I say take out the magnetic trigger and slap on a microswitch. Especially with the hardware issues with the new software.

[jeffremiller]

It has to stay... That's the defining point of the emag.

Why would anyone every even thik of taking it out... or making a smaller battery? You'd just drill a hole and mount a foregrip in it's place.... it doesn't weigh that much.

The reason I use AGD product is because of the engineering involved in the designs. The hole concept of the emag is facinating. It's a dual function electronically fired mechanical marker. I don't need a backup, I have mech mode!


J_

[Torbo]

usefull, but it could very easily be done without. I mean, of all the electros ive shot/played with/played with people shooting them, i dont believe any have gone down for purely electronic reasons. Other than running out of batterys, which is the users own damn fault anyway. If its that needed in an emag, does that mean that the emag electronics are inferior?

[-=Squid=-]

I dont mind the battery pack, I actually like it... but, why didnt AGD do something similar to the hyperframe? It just makes more sense...

[camilion705]

How much of the price would be cut?

That is a big factor. If not much, then it would be better to keep the mech option.

To me it seems that the average (nonAO) player doesn't care if it can run Mech or Electro. The mech feature is very cool and useful, but is it truly necessary?

[Skoad]

yes remove it, but not to cut cost...

[slushee]

With the ULT trigger now standard with the new valves ... wouldn't a hyperframe type grip be somewhat of a cheaper option for AGD???

Personally .. I'd rather have a better looking hyperframe from AGD then spending so much for an EMag

[Gadget]

Nope, the mech mode doesn't matter to me at all. Never used it on my E.

If I could sacrifice it in return for either a reduction in weight or being able to do away with long external gas lines, I would.

[jeffremiller]

Not to start more of an argument in your poll thread but I just don't see how ANYONE would want to do away with mech and hybrid.

The who thing is "over" engineered... that's the beauty of it. Compare it to other methods and really look at the science involved.

We have the most configurable trigger possible, Long Battery life with the potential to run all accessories of the same power source and Three modes of operation. How does a little microswitch and a solenoid compare to the beauty of this design?

My biggest disappointment with AGD and the Emag was the disc=ission to drop the idea of using a BASIC stamp for extended features.

If this was available with a standard board... I'd already have built multiple personality modules for sale... such as vibrating grip for reload alarm, Thermometer, possibly even an IR or Bluetooth programming interface (not sure on that one)

It also solved the problem for AGD about being sued for violating patents... since all they are providing is the pin sockets, I'd be the one with that problem I guess.

Bring Back the STAMP!!!

J_

[RRfireblade]

Originally posted by Meph

But if the E-mag could be made cheaper, lighter, use only 1 9volt instead of the big battery, and just as fast as any current or 4.0 mag out there. Would it be worth it to have that mechanical option removed completely?

I don't use very often but do to the design of the E/Xmag it's pretty handy on occasion.I've had 'em "jam" or "stick" on the field and one shot in mechanical often gets it rolling again.

But either way,it's only one tiny piece that makes it mechancal,it's not going to have any effect on cost,weight,batt power etc.

Unless your talking about redesigning the entire valve system.;)

[Meph]

Originally posted by jeffremiller
Why would anyone every even thik of taking it out...

One reason being the X-mag. You figure you could promote the E-mag as a cheaper all E-mag. While the X-mag will be the one boasting the mech/hyb/e trigger, giving another selling point to it besides being just a glorified e-mag.



Originally posted by RRfireblade
But either way,it's only one tiny piece that makes it mechancal,it's not going to have any effect on cost,weight,batt power etc.


Not exactly. It's much much more than just that switch that adds to the cost. The battery is a big cost to the E-mag. The magnetic-noid is about... $40 or so I think for AGD.

But instead I built my complete ULE mag for X amount of dollars (won't tell my cost). That was ULE body, X-valve with LVL10, rail/parts, Intelli-frame. But I built this for much much less than my cost on a pre-built E-mag.

Look at the Hyperframe now. Know the design to that? It basically just removes the trigger pin, puts that little e-noid behind the sear and moves it that way. Microswitch sends juice to the noid and it trips the sear, and the new boards have adjustable dwell times and delay times... and they are capped at 20bps. So these things aren't about to be too slow for the X-valve.

Yet similar design all those Dragun TES and Spyder Fenix and all those. When they make those frames in the volume that they do they actually can sell an ENTIRE marker WITH that electronic frame (minus bottom line of course) for under $100 bucks! And these frames are not cheap, I work on them often and the only thing I see go down is the Spyder's mechanical parts. The noid and boards I have only seen 1 noid actually fail, and no boards have been fried. Just that the rest of the spyder bolted onto the frame is still junk.

So what if you take the mechanical ULE mag I built earlier, take away the I-frame and instead mount on a Hyperframe style of e-frame. It'll fire fast enough, run off of just 1 9V battery, and can cut cost quite a bit. I could see a dealer cost for this thing being around $650 and still be as profitable to AGD as the current E-mag.

[jeffremiller]

One reason being the X-mag. You figure you could promote the E-mag as a cheaper all E-mag. While the X-mag will be the one boasting the mech/hyb/e trigger, giving another selling point to it besides being just a glorified e-mag.

I suppose you could look at it that way... the only selling point to the X mag is the look... and possibily the breeches.

I personally wouldn't pay the extra for the looks...

What I'd like to see are X-slugs...then, as far as looks, everyone has endless options.

J_

[tg ur 1t]

what one paintball marker out there can be used as your primary and backup at the same time? the Emag.
I am only going to add to the pro Mech trigger argument here. Try switching from E to M and still pulling the pin. On a Rec-ball day when some punk is wiping, or playing on after eliminated... I switch over, hit the bounce, and game on. If someone else is tapping the reactive trigger nectar... I give it back. It is easy to do on the Emag. I also stay in E mode all the time in fair play... but I think the M stands for a line from the movie SWINGERS... you are soooo MONEY!
:cool: :)
Todd:cool:

[RRfireblade]

Originally posted by Meph

Not exactly. It's much much more than just that switch that adds to the cost. The battery is a big cost to the E-mag. The magnetic-noid is about... $40 or so I think for AGD.


He's talking about removing the "mechanical" portion. That's only the trigger rod.

Making the Emag cheaper is a different story but even still the only major difference in cost is the Battery.If you use a ULT,smaller 'niod and smaller battery you might save $100 or so off retail cost and give up some long term reliability,if $100 is that important to you.;)

[purplemag]

I will say that the mech mode is sometimes necessary with the valve being designed like it is, to allow for trouble shooting, and checking your velocity. It is the only way you can check where a leak is, either up front or in back, by blocking the flow of air with the on/off. Also, read the proper chronograph procedure, for that you have to have mech mode. Thoughts...?

[Meph]

Sure.


I can manually operate the sear with a Hyperframe. And that has no mech mode.



Originally posted by RRfireblade
If you use a ULT,smaller 'niod and smaller battery you might save $100 or so

Possibly, but I would actually bet based on some of my costs and how much those e-frames can be made for when produced in a higher volume.... I'd bet AGD could shave quite a bit more than just $100 off the price.

[coolcatpete]

I am really bad at charging my battery and so I use mine all the time.
Pete

[RRfireblade]

Originally posted by Meph
I would actually bet based on some of my costs and how much those e-frames can be made for when produced in a higher volume.... I'd bet AGD could shave quite a bit more than just $100 off the price.

I know you didn't just use AGD in the example.:D

[Meph]

Nah, tom doesn't need to shave. Keep the soup strainer. I'm talking about AGD's cost themselves + what they would then in turn distribute down for a lower dealer cost.

[Duke of Lawnchair]

Originally posted by coolcatpete
I am really bad at charging my battery and so I use mine all the time.
Pete

I thought that I was the only one!

Personally, I'd love to keep the mechanical option. Guys like myself forget to charge their batteries the night before.

Jim

[Halliday]

I had my battery die one game. The power must have dipped enough that it would not work in E mode but ran fine in Hybrid. I played that way the rest of the day and recharged the battery later.

Now it was just a RecBall game but the feature helped me that one time. I can see if I played more tournies it might be even more handy.

[Meph]

That's bringing up a good point. Subconsiously do people with E-mags not hound themselves to recharge their battery, or to make sure they have fresh batteries, BECAUSE they know in the back of their mind "Well if it fails, I got the mechanical mode." The owners might not necessarily think it, but it's there. Possibly.

I know that with my Halo and Hyperframe, I don't care if I replaced them batts the previous day of play. Next day of play I ALWAYS have spare batteries. I even check the voltage left with my multimeter at times. Because I know I don't have mechanical mode, or just because I indeed am used to electronics all together so I know to be precautious? Beats me.

But with e-mag owners, since that mech option is there, maybe these people do have a tendency to overlook the battery issue.

[RRfireblade]

Well,I will say that I've NOT charged it 'cause I figured it's just rec ball and mech might be fun for a day.

[50 cal]

I don't see where removing the M mode would save any $$$. It still fires in the same manner as E mode.
We play around here sometimes without any E guns. All I do is remove the battery and flip it to M and I still have my same set up. That's why I like my E mag so much.

[Meph]

Originally posted by 50 cal
I don't see where removing the M mode would save any $$$.

Look up to about the middle, I have a post explaining how.

[50 cal]

You custom built your gun for X amount. Most companies build their product and that's it. No 100 other options that ruin a company. Sure AGD could do that, but then you would have 100 different options of guns for just a small amount players. It would be business suicide for a company to do that.
There are Rogue Factor and all the others that would probably do what you are suggesting. But they are small independent guys that can do the custom stuff.
You think the wait on Xmags is bad, try doing all the option stuff for production guns.
I work for a company that builds .50 cal rifles. If we tried the stuff as production that customers call in for, we would't get their rifles to them in a years time. You have to plan production schedules. Tie up machine time for small lots of parts. It would be a logistical nightmare.

I'm sure AGD could do what you ask. But would it be beneficial? Probably not.

[UltimatePaintballer]

they mech option i think is a must for an emag or x. it comes in handy when you need it. my friend burnt out his battery and never got one for a long time so he always had to use the mech mode. if there wasn't one, he wouldn't have been able to use it!

[sneakyhacker420]

with ULT and a hyperframe, AGD would love to design a smaller frame, instead of the large e-mag one, but right now the SP patent issue is stopping them from making any progress reguarding electronics besides the software :(

[tony3]

I still don't understand why agd can't do anything about not building a frame. All these new electros are coming out and people are still producing them. Or if agd is so worried, why not design the frame and get it working and ready for production, then when the case is over, start producing it immediately. If agd made a gun with a pnuematically operated sear, that was electro, but looked different then all current mags, had a 1 piece body/rail, they would sell very good.