Whos next?

[Lohman446]

Well... AGD bowed out of the electro market Friday, AKA on Monday. Somehow I have a feeling this was not just pure coincidence and that there was some discussion between the two companies.

Whos next on the list, and I am assuming that someone has a list somewhere. Is the frenzy to produce e-blades for a reason, is WGP bowing out soon?

Frankly, if WGP, AKA, AGD and Tippman all bow out of the electros and work together, or seperatly to produce uber mechanical guns, are we going to see the electro market crumble, Is it possible? I would have never expected AGD or AKA to not produce electronic guns, but look now. The patent is there, it looks like its goign to be left to kingman to worry about itself. Perhaps this was a smart move by the above. I mean, if SP is goign to enforce its patent and sue everyone, maybe they will fail against Kingmand and the patent will be destroyed in precedence. Is this just a pause in the electro world or are we finding mechanical alternatives?

[laxkid]

yea kingman is a foriegn company they are not just paintball they have alot of other products I mean alot they can get financial support from.

[Steelrat]

Who knows? The people who DO know arent saying anything, which leaves most of us in the dark. Frankly, its enough to make me want to sell all my stuff and go play Warhammer 40K for a few years until everything is settled. Im tired of buying guns, then having the companies stop making them.

[S.S Bandit1]

Whats going to happen to WDP?

[dyeforever]

nothing i think, WDP is made in europe so the patent doesn't affect them.

someone correct me if im wrong

[penguinpunk555]

Good, the next gun's I plan on getting won't be affected Dye trix or Speed.

[chizle97]

Originally posted by Lohman446
Whos next on the list

YOU!!!!!! j/k :p (tryin to keep it light-hearted) man SP sure has sumthin up thier but. like a monkey or pennies. Poor old AKA, dose SP remind anyone else of the romans and alexarnder the great?

[Digits]

I think there bowing down untill the dust settles.. All these companies should just start up a branch up here in Canada :) Shipping would barelly be effected

[sneakyhacker420]

gen-e would be next, but DYE took em over


none of the cockers will be touched, because if i'm correct, the patent only covers solenoids in which air passes through to fire the marker, and in e-cockers, a magnetic solenoid trips the sear to fire the marker, and the air noid has the job of re-cocking it

[laxkid]

correct sneaky and you are going to love the eblade I loved mine.

[Toxic Dave]

sneaky;

Gen-E has not been taken over by Dye, if it has, they've been reallllllly sneaky about it.

Dye bought the rights of manufacture for the Matrix line of products from us, and the patent from the owners of that. They didn't buy Gen-E, we continue to manufacture and distribute paintball products, made by many companies, Dye being one of them...heck we even sell Smart Parts products too!! We have a very good working relationship with SP, as well as most of our other vendors.

We do however call various members of the Dye staff "boss" purley to make them crazy.

dave/ gen-e

[Curly]

Originally posted by Steelrat
Who knows? The people who DO know arent saying anything, which leaves most of us in the dark. Frankly, its enough to make me want to sell all my stuff and go play Warhammer 40K for a few years until everything is settled. Im tired of buying guns, then having the companies stop making them.

Somehow I just cant picture you sitting around and playing warhammer... ;) :D

[Jonesie]

Originally posted by sneakyhacker420
the patent only covers solenoids in which air passes through to fire the marker, and in e-cockers, a magnetic solenoid trips the sear to fire the marker, and the air noid has the job of re-cocking it

Uh, isn't this the way the AGD markers work? Ofr would the On/Off resetting the 'noid count by this definition?

[Halliday]

Originally posted by Steelrat
Who knows? The people who DO know arent saying anything, which leaves most of us in the dark. Frankly, its enough to make me want to sell all my stuff and go play Warhammer 40K for a few years until everything is settled. Im tired of buying guns, then having the companies stop making them.

Why don't you just directly set your money on fire? It's quicker that way :)

[spantol]

Gladly.

This patent won't affect WDP's operations in Europe.

It does, or will, however, affect WDP's operations here. When they do business in this country they are subject to our IP laws. They're a valid target for Smart Parts.


Originally posted by dyeforever
nothing i think, WDP is made in europe so the patent doesn't affect them.

someone correct me if im wrong

[vf-xx]

Originally posted by Steelrat
Who knows? The people who DO know arent saying anything, which leaves most of us in the dark. Frankly, its enough to make me want to sell all my stuff and go play Warhammer 40K for a few years until everything is settled. Im tired of buying guns, then having the companies stop making them.

May I reccomend Mechwarrior: Dark age aka clicky tech. All the fun of Battletech sans tech cards and overly long battles. Plus the added bonus of various unit types.

[spantol]

My money would be on Powerlyte and MacDev being the next two hit, assuming Powerlyte gets their Isis out the door soon. Both are smaller companies, and both have markers that compete (or will compete) directly with the Shocker.

Afte that, I'd say OGI'll get hit for their O3, if they haven't already worked something out.

Oh, and I'm half-rooting for Evil to be on the near-term list, too, for their PIMP kit. That thing has "contributory infringement" written all over it. Hell, it's in their copy.

[yeahthatsme]

evil would be on the list for the omen, its electronic as well, but evil is backed by PMI, and a ton of money, so they will probably not be on the near-future targets list.

[WARPED1]

Originally posted by Lohman446

Frankly, if WGP, AKA, AGD and Tippman all bow out of the electros and work together, or seperatly to produce uber mechanical guns, are we going to see the electro market crumble, Is it possible? Simple answer, no.
Not as long as theres an NPPL and PSP.

[fallout11]

Actually, I correctly guessed that AKA and AGD would drop their electro lines.
So, needless to say, I was not surpised at the news, only the relative timing.

And I will hang it on out there and predict (right or wrong, time will tell), that yes, Lohman446 is pretty much on the money, and Tippman will also bow out of electros. Their core business does not rely on them.

I'm not sure sure about WGP, but it would not surprise me to see them drop their E line in the not too distant future.
What this means is a return to work on improving mechanicals, at least for these companies. Assuming SP's patent remains unchallenged, or is upheld if it is.

Kingman, on the other hand, will fight....their profit per marker sold is very low ($13 on average), so they cannot really afford to absorb the cost of per-marker royalty payments to SP.

NPPL and PSP teams will have a more limited selection of electronic marker manufacturers to choose from, but you're right, Warped1, they and their teams will stick with whatever electros are available.

[Lohman446]

Anyone find it odd that the remaining non-signed manufacturers (those that have not reached an agreement) are declaring end of production in alphebatical order?

[fallout11]

So, ATS is up next?
Or Brass Eagle?

[127.0.0.1]

Powerlyte maybe next... I hope not.

[fallout11]

Mmmm....could be.
Powerlyte is small.

But with the Isis just coming out, I'll bet they'll settle, if approached by SP.
For the same reasons ICD did....they have a lot of money tied up in a brand new product, and have to be able to sell it to recover financially.
Otherwise, they'll be sitting on all that already-incurred cost (R&D, tooling, pre-production costs, prototyping, and unsellable inventory, if any).

We'll see.

[Beemer]

Originally posted by WARPED1
Simple answer, no.
Not as long as theres an NPPL and PSP.

You think you know more then everybody else so you tell me.

If the e-markers followed ASTM standards, would it really matter if its mech, or e

Prove to me how much you really know

[ogre55]

Originally posted by spantol
Gladly.

This patent won't affect WDP's operations in Europe.

It does, or will, however, affect WDP's operations here. When they do business in this country they are subject to our IP laws. They're a valid target for Smart Parts.



Actually, WDPs operations in Europe would also be effected b/c England (and most of the rest of Europe) has treaties with the US regarding reciprocity of respective patents.

WDP may be the last best hope for a company standing up to SP, rather than signing on. WDP is fairly rich and e-markers are their bread and butter. They can't simply stop production of Angels as that would leave them with nothing. So they will either fight, or join Dye, NPS....

Ogre

[billmi]

Originally posted by Beemer

If the e-markers followed ASTM standards, would it really matter if its mech, or e


I don't think it would make a significant difference.

[Wes Janson]

If.

[bleachit]

Originally posted by chizle97

dose SP remind anyone else of the romans and alexarnder the great?

no, the Romans were bad arse, sp just prefers the company of men.

[shartley]

Well... AGD bowed out of the electro market Friday

Me thinks folks may not have read everything AGD posted, and may be counting them out prematurely. ;)

[RoadDawg]

Brock Lesnar's next. (see how many people know what I'm talking about) WM XX!

[Smoke]

Originally posted by RoadDawg
Brock Lesnar's next. (see how many people know what I'm talking about) WM XX!

'Taker folks!!!!

[/hijack]

[WARPED1]

Originally posted by bleachit


sp just prefers the company of men. So did the Romans...
there was no gay or straight in the times of the Romans. Ever see paintings of Roman orgies?

[cgrieves]

I have a question and I apologise in advance if it's already been answered elsewhere (I have done a search but can't find the answer)....

What's to stop AGD bringing out a marker with a new valve, ACE, battery, all the electrotrickery that everyone seems to want, an adjustable double trigger, but keep a hollow grip frame with a simple pushrod to actuate the firing mechanism. Then, another company (say Centerflag) bring out a drop-in kit with electronics and solenoid that sits inside the frame and "upgrades" it to an electro? Surely there is no patent on electronics that actuate a solenoid?Meanwhile behind the scenes AGD and Centerflag join hands and sing "Auld Langs Aye" with tears of joy streaming down their faces.

Or why not release an X-Mag with everything included but no solenoid. Then us AGD lovers go down to Radio Shack and buy a £15 solenoid and solder it in....

Forgive me if I'm being naive but it seems to me if the law is so Asinine that this legal threat becomes real, then there must be some way round it....

[logamus]

Originally posted by cgrieves
Or why not release an X-Mag with everything included but no solenoid. Then us AGD lovers go down to Radio Shack and buy a £15 solenoid and solder it in....

Forgive me if I'm being naive but it seems to me if the law is so Asinine that this legal threat becomes real, then there must be some way round it....

the patent doesnt just cover noids, it covers the use of electronics to fire the marker. just leaving the noid out wont keep you out of trouble.


Originally posted by AGD
People let me tell you, this is VERY VERY REAL. If you don't believe it, call Smart Parts directly and ask them if they have the patent rights on all electronic guns.

Why do you think we have been working on the ULE Trigger?

AGD

[cgrieves]

OK so why not go with my first option then, a marker with electronics (ace etc) that is not fired electronically. Surely there is no law that says I can't drop in a centerflag upgrade? After all the centerflag upgrade is just a metal frame with electronics and a solenoid. There's nothing in the description that says it has anything to do with paintball markers. So the AGD marker would be legal because it's mechanically fired, and the Centerflag upgrade would be legal because it's just a bit of metal with a circuit board and solenoid....

[Woogie12]

I think that WDP and Kingman are next, both of which will fight in court. I would love to see either one lay the smackdown on SP. I just don't see how they can attack a company in court when the markers were made before the patent.

[WARPED1]

Kingman will, or they might have already, sign out of court with SP. No telling what WDP will do. If they're smart like ICD, DYE, and NPS they'll sign as well.

[Lohman446]

As far as Kingman being next, I think your wrong. I think there may be some legal strategy here.

AGD, AKA, Dye, NPS, ICD all dodged the fight or at least the end, I assume. Though I still see AGD ending up paying some past fees for royalties. They have left standing Tippman (who will dodge the fight I assume) WGP (dodge coming, I woudl assume), WDP, PMI, and Kingman. WDP is not protected by being overseas, it just makes them a pain to sue. Kingman has the backing to fight this to the end, they cannot settle.

However, if I was SP, Kingman would not even be on my list as long as they kept there prices and quality where they are at (no stabs at SP quality here please). Frankly they don't compete wtih SP, they are a non threat, why risk the legal oops of trying to sue them, with little to gain, and possibly failing and setting precident to allow AKA, AGD and any of the other soon to bow out back in to the game.

Besides, I think SP already screwed up. I think that mechanical and pneumatic assisted mechanical markers are very very close, and that there will be not advantage to the electros anymore.

[127.0.0.1]

Like I said, they'll go after Powerlyte... I have a bad feeling towards that way

Probable target list :
- Powerlyte (Isis)
- MacDev (Cyborg)
- Evil (Omen)
- OGI (O3)
- Armotech (yes, Armotech.. with their WG65-E)

[GT]

little note:

I have said this in other htreads. WDP is been dropping angels like mad, hmmmm why would they be trying to get rid of guns?/???

[Woogie12]

Uhhh....what do you mean by dropping guns like mad?