Paintballers organizing against Smart Parts

[Notorious Pot]

If the authors of all the anti Smart Parts posts across all the message boards I've been reading got organized and spoke with a collective voice they could have a HUGE impact.

Join now and pass it on:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/thefifthmarker

[LaW]

They will make no impact, have fun trying though :) welcome to AO

[jayloo]

First, welcome to AO.

Second, sounds good, Ill check it out.

[Patron God of Pirates]

I'm in.

Outside of a boycot, what legally can be done?

How about a class action lawsuite against SP on the basis of false advertizing (accuracy). It's easy to prove. Think of the thousands in lost tourny prizes after gaining no accuarcy benifit from the shocker/AA/Freak... Plus all the field fees, pain and suffering, etc. ;)

Sounds absurd, then again so does a patent on all electronic paintball markers.

If they do enforce this patent accross the board, wont they be in violation of anti-trust laws?

[Butterfingers]

big government dosent give 2 craps about small business... they have bigger fish to fry.

[Butterfingers]

Originally posted by LaW
They will make no impact, have fun trying though :) welcome to AO

Just like when you vote it will have no impact right?

You get enough people to think the way you do you will see an effect. Happened with NAM in the late 60's

What smart parts did violated a core human value...

If I can quote Glenn Palmer

"Greed= Bad JUJU"

[LaW]

Originally posted by Butterfingers


Just like when you vote it will have no impact right?

You get enough people to think the way you do you will see an effect. Happened with NAM in the late 60's

What smart parts did violated a core human value...

If I can quote Glenn Palmer

"Greed= Bad JUJU"

;)

[LudavicoSoldier]

Well, if things keep going as they are, everyone is going to be affected. Not just the ICD, AKA, or AGD heads. SP is pissing ALOT of people off by effectively stopping the Excal/Viking from being made. If they keep going and continue attacking companies who have a large, loyal fanbase, I can't see it being all that good for business. I mean, sure, they will still sell markers to the SP faithful, but I don't think that many educated pballers like the idea of not having a choice of several high quality electros. Noobs aside and all.

[bunkermaster10]

I hope SP turns out like Scarface and they will want to own the world. And guess what happened to him, he DIED!



DIE SP DIE!!!!


;)

[Crimson_Turkey]

If somebody would cite the Navy's patent (US003695246) as previous art we could have them bagged. This patent clearly states that the pellet marking device used is activated electronically. The patent also covers an rediculously large feed system and ACE. Dated 1971. Athough the patent has expired it is still previous art and could still be used as a weapon against Smart Parts in court.

What we need is a lawyer.

[LudavicoSoldier]

What we need is a shotgun posse, a few hearses, THEN a lawyer.

[LudavicoSoldier]

Additionally, where (what state) was the ICD case tried? PA? I can't help but think that SP has an insider somewhere.

[Miscue]

Originally posted by Crimson_Turkey
If somebody would cite the Navy's patent () as previous art we could have them bagged. This patent clearly states that the pellet marking device used is activated electronically. The patent also covers an rediculously large feed system and ACE. Dated 1971. Athough the patent has expired it is still previous art and could still be used as a weapon against Smart Parts in court.

What we need is a lawyer.

Court is very costly - it would be more expensive to win in court than to not fight and settle.

[chairman_mao]

Originally posted by Miscue


Court is very costly - it would be more expensive to win in court than to not fight and settle.

This may be true but if there were a conglomerate of companies splitting legal costs in order to squash this "problem" and get back to furthing paintball it may be worth it in the end. Just my opinion.

[Crimson_Turkey]

For a singel company, yes Miscue, you are right.

We need a premptive strike! If just a few companies who want o keep making markers got together which would be cheaper: chipping in to take them down, or each one paying seperate royalties and lump sums. The former.

And honestly I don't care, I will do as much as I can to take SP down, even if it is money out of my pocket.

I bet ICD and AKA would chip in to take them down. ANd there are more out there who might just be fearing them enough to do it. What about WDP, they have the money and power to fight SP, will they help?

[billmi]

Originally posted by Patron God of Pirates

If they do enforce this patent accross the board, wont they be in violation of anti-trust laws?

I really, really, really, doubt it.

Anti-trust laws were developed to break monopolies of companies who had total control of public resources - specifically railroads that had tied up the rights-of way. Yes, they owned the rails, but in essence it was public land (right of ways granted in the public interest) over which they had sole control. The same goes for the phone and power monopolies - because they used what belonged to the public to provide their services.

Designing technology and patenting it doesn't involve the government granting a right of way to something public. The anti-trust laws were stretched and applied to something entirely different than what they were designed for in the Microsoft case - where the government had concerns because it had willingly become very dependent upon a single product vendor. You're not going to see something like that in paintball.

Many, if not most monopolies are legal. AGD, for example has the monopoly on producing Automags. That's completely legal, and in my opinion, as it should be.

See you on the field,
-Bill Mills

[SirTim]

Good stuff. I am in.

[OysterBoy]

Well realize this (on the anti-smart part side of argument);

Its not just AKA and ICD that are losing money, but think of the companies that ONLY produce accesories? removing 90% of the market (eventual) effectively ruins these guys. Its way past marker making companies, this affect all paintball(ers).

[chizle97]

Originally posted by Patron God of Pirates
Outside of a boycot, what legally can be done?

The old "glue everything in the house to the celling" trick?:p

[edweird]

protest them at events :P

then event organizers will not invite them as it causes a ruckus

then Automags.org takes over the space the Smartparts compund is normally occupying and has a cookout

[laxkid]

didnt boblong sign a contract and dye to pay those fees for every gun they sell they might want some action at sp if wdp joined in maybe bob and dye would too

and edwierd has a great idea about at tournaments

[billmi]

National (Intimidator) and DYE have worked out license arrangements with SP, so it would probably be counter-productive for them to join in a lawsuit. The fact that they entered in an agreement could be used against them to show that they think the patent has merit.

I suppose you could protest them at tournaments - but the largest tournaments where they have their trailers are the PSP, and they are part owners of the PSP, so I don't think they'll kick themselves out.

[teufelhunden]

Originally posted by Butterfingers

If I can quote Glenn Palmer

"Greed= Bad JUJU"

Without greed, this country would be nowhere. Greed is good.

[GTakacs]

Originally posted by teufelhunden


Without greed, this country would be nowhere. Greed is good.

I thought greed is one of the seven deadly sins....:confused:

[Butterfingers]

Theres a diffrence between greed and ambition.

Only when you discover the diffrence for yourself will you understand...

[goat]

You can bet your last dime I'll be wearing an anti smart parts pin at Ultimate Madness.......Might be able to get some stickers as well........I dont care if they are a sponsor what they are doing is wrong.
Goat

[FreakBaller12]

come on everybody sign up!, 11 people isn't enough, more have posted in this thread!
come on you guys.

[ClassicMagger]

Hey:

Count me in. Already a member. Whatever can be done. Should be. I have a Jersey that is being printed up this week. That explains why Smart Parts is in the wrong in this situation to me. I hope to persuade all that can be with it. At ALL events.

ClassicMagger

[Rather]

You know what I want?

I want someone to kidnap a Gardner. Then, treating him nicely (at first ;))...ask him WTF IS YOUR PROBLEM?

Depending on what he answers, legal mumbo jumbo aside. Beat him or drug him and leave him bare and handcuffed at his own home doorsteps. :D

If he says that he wants to own the world and because hes being greedy for money (typical american citizen :rolleyes:) snuff him.

If he has some long explinationf or the "betterment of paintball" then you do the latter of above mentioned on what to do to him.

[personman]

Originally posted by edweird
protest them at events :P

then event organizers will not invite them as it causes a ruckus

then Automags.org takes over the space the Smartparts compund is normally occupying and has a cookout
Haha that is such a good idea.
At the next big event, find out which booth SP is occupying. Then, before they can get there, set up a giant BBQ and SP nazi signs, and then burn the SP nazi signs into the BBQ buns with a brander or something :p

[$tevo]

theres no point in this guys. they do have the right to patent their stuff. its a pretty crappy thing to do but they did it, its over with. just think of it this way, its forcing companies to do R&D and we will get an all new design of marker out of it(maybe).

and you cant say that SP doesnt make good products, cause they do, and we all know it

[Tapper]

Originally posted by billmi


I really, really, really, doubt it.


http://www.utexas.edu/law/journals/tiplj/volumes/vol10iss1/steinman.html
http://www.gbpatent.com/cases/xnobelpharma.htm

[Ov3rmind]

i have hax

http://undecided.thisanthem.com/pics/barrel1.jpg

[Butterfingers]

Originally posted by $tevo
theres no point in this guys. they do have the right to patent their stuff. its a pretty crappy thing to do but they did it, its over with. just think of it this way, its forcing companies to do R&D and we will get an all new design of marker out of it(maybe).

and you cant say that SP doesnt make good products, cause they do, and we all know it


Just to set the record staight they didnt patent it they STOLE it from the industry through a loophole.

http://www.icedillusions.com/Anti-SP.html

[Octavian]

in regards to the sp lawsuit and witch hunt .... wh y not demonstrate at smart parts regional centers.. or simply not buy and of their product......

[SN toter]

tourny sit-ins at their booths...better believe I'll be there at the IAO with my fuc# smart parts shirt sittin right smack in front of their booth. get 20-30 folks and no one can get to the booth.

[shartley]

I suggest that if folks demonstrate, that they keep a couple things in mind….

If you are loud and cause a problem, you CAN be forced to leave. The 1st Amendment does not apply.

If you make it impossible, or very hard, for folks to get to the SP Booths, you can be forced to leave…. Even if you are not saying anything.

When folks want to demonstrate against any company or any issue, they have to make sure they are not the ones who end up on the short end of the stick, or the ones who end up looking like the bad guys. It does NO good to get yourself removed from some place when you could have used your heads and stayed there all day. And don’t be ignorant or vulgar. That may be cool to you and your friends, but it is NOT cool to those who are needed to affect a real change…. Nor the general public.

Use your heads, not your hearts.

[50 cal]

^^^^^^^^

Exactly. If the event is held on private property, you may be arrested or told to leave. You can't demonstrate on private property. You can, but the land owner has the right to have you arrested for trespassing.

You can probably get away with a few people in front of the SP booth with some small sign or t-shirt on.

[Crimson_Turkey]

The nazi signs will destory credibility as well. Better to use an interenations no sign over thier logo.

[personman]

Originally posted by $tevo
and you cant say that SP doesnt make good products, cause they do, and we all know it
That is your oppinion. I used to own a 14" AA barrel. It was the worst barrel I've ever owned. I bought it brand new for $90 and within a few weeks of use I sold it for $50. My friend has an Impulse, and this may be my oppinion but honestly I would never want to own a gun like that. Its big, heavy, ugly, and slow. I owned a freak for a while and it was also very low quality. I dont like how Smart Parts is very slowly forcing their horrible products upon us. Sooner or later they are going to make a pattent on a metal tube claiming that their ancestors 1000 years ago created the first one or some BS like that.

[Rigster_TBB]

Smart Parts does indeed make excellent products. I own an Impulse (Bone Stock) and it is the finest marker I have ever owned (and Iv'e owned quite a few). My buddy just bought a brand new ANS GX-4. Those things retailed for close to $800-900 when they first came out. They have dropped down a good deal in price. It is a SWEEET marker and smooth as butter. He couldn't wait to rub it in because he had a nicer marker than me (it's a old guy vs. young guy thing you know). Anyway, I shot the GX4 (very nice indeed). But I told him to pick up my Imp and rip a string out on it. His jaw dropped and his exact words were "Wow..." Fact of the matter is, Smart Parts makes goooood stuff. I have been a product designer for years. Everything I have ever looked at with the SP name on it has been top notch and well worth the asking price. I can't say that about other stuff I have owned. I of course do not want to see SP hurt any company and I hope everyone involved can reach a settlement and go about their way. If not, that's tuff, that's life, that's a capitilist economy. Look, places like Wal-mart, K-mart, Lowes, Home Depot have hurt more small businesses that 100 Smart Parts put together. Who knows what great invention one of them would have made down the road if they were still in business. Life is far to short and painfull as it is for Paintballers to get all worked up with each other over something like this. Let the business guys fight it out. There will always be fine markers to shoot, I really don't care who's name is on the side of it...
Rigster...
(excuse any spelling errors, It's been a long day)

[Z-man]

Wouldn't a better and more civil form of boycott (besides the obvious "not-buying-SP-stuff" aspect) be to have a unified logo used that you can put on t-shirts / other apparel and stickers?

I don't know who made it but that little animated Gif of the SP logo morphing into the Nazi sign was trick. Course that IS an iffy thing to put on a shirt as someone glancing at it could take it VERY wrong....

Still the point stands. Everyone likes sporting clothing that says something that want said and it makes for a perfect in-point in telling others.

[ZAust]

Originally posted by Z-man
Wouldn't a better and more civil form of boycott (besides the obvious "not-buying-SP-stuff" aspect) be to have a unified logo used that you can put on t-shirts / other apparel and stickers?

I don't know who made it but that little animated Gif of the SP logo morphing into the Nazi sign was trick. Course that IS an iffy thing to put on a shirt as someone glancing at it could take it VERY wrong....

Still the point stands. Everyone likes sporting clothing that says something that want said and it makes for a perfect in-point in telling others.

just as long as its not iron-ons that fade completely after a couple washings. ;) :p

[Z-man]

oh crap they did? $%$%^#$%%^&^%# I am sorry to hear that. Mine still works fine.....

Giess I wont be doing that next year..

[Miscue]

Originally posted by ZAust


just as long as its not iron-ons that fade completely after a couple washings. ;) :p

Couple? Mine only lasted once! :p Oh well.

[Z-man]

oh great! I LOVE how no one tells me! if you had not mentioned this I probly would have made them that way again! I feel so ashamed now.

[Steelrat]

LOL, I cant believe you guys even tried to wash them. I just had Tom sign it, and now Im putting it in a shadow box.

[LittlePaintballBoy]

Heh heh, ive washed mine a good 5 or so times and where it to school.

[OysterBoy]

I think if we set up a screen printing session of just plain white shirts with the SP logo with the red DONT sign around it (you all know what I mean.) and have a forum just for the names of everyone who would actually buy one, then find the cost (cheaper in bulk! :) ) and divide it among the people buying them.

[Big Head]

Smart Parts are a waste!! Just don't buy from them!

[jonmac]

Hello all! I've been reading up on the smart parts issue. Why not have everyone go to pbreview.com and tastefully tell everything that they do in gun reviews? As long as you don't cuss, it should stay.

[shartley]

Originally posted by jonmac
Hello all! I've been reading up on the smart parts issue. Why not have everyone go to pbreview.com and tastefully tell everything that they do in gun reviews? As long as you don't cuss, it should stay.
If you want to review a COMPANY, do so. Do they have general Company review sections?

But I don't advise slamming a company on what they do, when you are suppose to be reviewing a PRODUCT. If the reviews are suppose to be for products, that is what they should stay as. Because once marker and general product reviews are used to slam the company and not the product, it becomes political and you lose all credibility in any review posted.

[Xyxyll]

Originally posted by personman

Haha that is such a good idea.
At the next big event, find out which booth SP is occupying. Then, before they can get there, set up a giant BBQ and SP nazi signs, and then burn the SP nazi signs into the BBQ buns with a brander or something :p

I definitely like the BBQ buns idea... lol

[Phobos]

You guys have you work cut out for you. You have to deal some major blows to SP before X-ball goes on air. Once that happens since they bought all the good teams (Dynasty, Strange, Phillys)every body out there watching will want a SP marker, just like Jordan did for Nike, then it will be over. SP wins.

Actually that would be a good way to start. Get Dynasty off of SP payroll. How you do that I have no Idea.

[Wrathchild]

AGD and AKA have already surrendered and will no longer market elecros. Other companies have submitted and paid a licensing fee.

... that irritates me. Tom clearly stated that SP has NOTHING to do with the removal of the Emag line. Get that crap off of there.