P/F, does it really help

[zvanut]

Guys,

i have some concern on p/f and blowback, so i decided it might as well go here. Anyways, on my friends rebel(p/f) whenever you shoot, blowback pushes the balls up about an 8th of an inch. this is the same w/ a full hopper or empty.

So i was thinking, does powerfeed really help, and why does it cost so much more. i know 32* rebels are not at the same level at mags, but i dont think it is that big of a deal.

[Hexis]

I think it helps. I started (in semi land) with a Tippmann ProLite, and now I have a MiniMag. With the ProLite with each shot the gas would force the paint up into the hopper a bit, slowing down the drop rate of the next shot. Not too big a deal with a valve that can only cycle somewhere around 5shots/second. Now on the Mag with a powerfeed the next ball has the Powerfeed tube (and hole) behind it. That vent lets the outbound gas escape around the next paintball and doesn't force the paint up in to the hopper.

[zvanut]

what i am saying is even w/ the p/f on my friends rebel, it is forcing paint up, even w/ a full hopper of paint.

[Hexis]

Well, I have never had that issue on my Mag, or even seen it on any of my friends many P/F Mags. Could be a bad design on that specific P/F.

[JCP member #140]

I have a standard feed mag and have had only one chopped ball since I got it 2 months ago. That was because it was the last ball. In regards to why p/f costs so much more is because it has a much better warranty in the case of the Mag. It has 3 stars instead of just 1 like the s/f. I personaly dislike p/f anyway because it blocks your site.

[zvanut]

and im pretty sure thr p/f is the same, just dont quote me.

[Viral]

Here's a test I used back in 1993 to prove my powerfeed mag was an improvement over the standard mag (to convince a teammate to spend the extra few bucks on the PF version).

Take your hopper off both version of the 'gun and fill it with paint until the last ball is sitting partially exposed above the rim of the feed tube (this should be 1 ball in the chamber and 3 (or 4?) in the feed tube.

Now hold each gun upright and level and fire once. The standard feed will eject 2-3 paintballs out almost everytime, while the PF will eject 0 most of the time, 1 at most. Without complicated testing equipment in controlled environments, this is as scientific as I could get, but it proved, at least to me and everyone of my teammates that AGD did their homework when they designed the powerfeed.

As for your friend's Rebel, I can only speculate that their design is somehow inferior if it's not making a difference. Keep in mind, though, that the Rebel is a blowback gun and will produce even more gas up the feedtube than a mag, so it's very possible that the PF -IS- making a difference, but nothing would be able to comlpetely remove all bobble in such an environment.

--Viral

[PsychoMag]

I have regularly played with std, vert, and p/f models, I notice no difference, in shooting from my std feed mag and my friends p/f mini. I currently have a p/f RT Pro. I like the Std feed cuz u can sight down the gun better.

[z_mann_z]

Most likely, the p/f on your friends rebel was not designed correctly. Believe it or not, ther is a science to welding that tube onto the body. It takes appropriate angles to allow the gas to escape with moving the subsequent balls in the tub after a shot.

[DeVioSiTY]

With the Classic Mag that I got, I have never had a ball break so far, either in the barrel or being chopped (yet). While I did the spend the few extra bucks and purchased a motorized hopper, I think the design of it wedges the balls in the tube enough so that it's virtually unaffected by any type of venting up the feed tube. I was debating on getting a new P/F body, but seeing as I have never had a problem with the Classic I'm going to save the money on other upgrades. :D

[Viral]

First off, you can't judge a person's experience by their membership level/time or number of posts. I am a 'junior member' with about 15 posts right now. But, I've been playing paintball 15 years (how long have you played?). I've been playing with AGD guns for NINE years, not couting the AGD Six Pack I had on my Lapco Grey Spirit before that (how long have you owned a mag?) I built and ran the most successful paintball field in Oklahoma for 5 years. I've been to almost a dozen NPPL and World Cup tournies.

I understand your point. If you don't have anything useful to contribute to the topic, don't post. Don't qualify that, however, by stating that "Junior Members with 10 posts" shouldn't be writing here. I've seen plenty of mindless, useless posts by 'senior' members here too...

Now, back to the topic ;)

Another thread on this board, started by RobAGD states that AGD's new powerfeed plug could eliminate feed problems by removing a (nearly microscopic) flat spot on the curve of the plug. That's science, ladies and gentlemen. my girlfriend's spyder has a 'powerfeed' but it's plug was nothing more than an angled piece of plastic. No curve whatsoever. My point is, just because some company welds a tube on at a 90 degree angle doesn't mean they are reaping the same benefits that a P/F mag does.

(btw, that plug was immediately pulled off the spyder and replaced by an extra mag plug I had. No matter though, she just upgraded to an RT ;) )

--Viral

[Hexis]

All I am saying is that It's my opinion that it helps. You can choose to ignore my opnion, or not. I have used Mags with both PF and straight feed.

I have been playing paintball for 8 years. I have owned a Mag for 6 years. Perhaps I'm a light poster, but that has nothing to do with my level of experance playing paintball and using Mags.

Thanks for the nice words Viral.

[FUBAR]

Ok, I don't know what everyone else said because reading all those posts is alot of bed time reading.... I did see some things talking about the valve, by the way, all classics are 1 star valves, even the classic p/f, the normal p/f however, is a 3 star, just to get things straight. And how I understand it, mags are usually the only ones that work with the powerfeed bodys, the way the have the hole designed and so on makes a vacuum suction as the gun fires, pulling the balls down in faster and preventing them from hopping up, correct me if im wrong.

[Viral]

This isn't quite correct. In a normal (straight feed) tube, all the balls are lined up in a row, waiting to drop into the breech. When the gun is fired, the pressure inside the gun/breech/barrel is higher than the the normal air presure, so as the bolt is moving back to the cocked position, some of the air blows back up the feed tube. This pushes the next balls in line to be fired up the feed tube until the pressure is dispersed. Then they are allowed to fall back down. This happens in a fraction of a second, but still long enough to chop a ball if you are hammering the trigger.

A powerfeed, though, puts only one ball in the path of the air. So when the bolt is headed back and the air escapes into the feed tube, it blows that one ball back into the wall of the P/F (where the hole is that you can see). The air then goes around that ball and escapse through the hole. The ball bounces off the P/F wall and ricochets into the breech faster than gravity would have pulled it in.

Theoretically, any gun that produces blowback could benefit from a powerfeed, as long as the bolt gets out of the way fast enough. But the powerfeed, the plug, the angles, everything would have to be designed to exact tolerances to make it an improvement.

[DeVioSiTY]

Thanks for getting my back Viral. At least now we know who 'really' is cool in these forums. And even though I did sign up 'yesterday' It doesn't mean I haven't been around in paintball since the late 80's.

Besides I was basing my commentary on the first post's questions and concerns and based my answer on the facts I've seen in real world play.

If you don't want to read it then close your eyes.

[MagNumPI]

Blow back was a problem I had when I had a cocker, since the cocker didn't have a hole to let the air escape it caused balls to shoot up in the feed tube. Powerfeed makes blowback very un noticable cause there i a big hole to let the air out. PF is also good at centering the barrel , with the classic you had the hopper way out ot the left or right.

Power feed is good.

[NikeMann]

just another question, why is p/f at an angle? they could put it on the side of the gun and have a verical p/f. and therefore elimiating the use of an elbow lowering the height of the hopper. it would also solve the problem of people complaining that the p/f gets in the way of sighting down the barrel. just an interesting thought i had.

[Ityl]

As somebody said before it's so the blowback gases can escape easier.

In related to what was said above:
Sometimes the people with the most posts know the least...But not necessarily either.

[Mattyblaze]

a power feed when using a standard loader creates less blowback therefor allowing your gun to cycle quicker without choping paint.

but say if you used a warp feed you could just cut down your standard feed and it would all work the same and there would be no blowback due to the paintballs be literally shoved into the gun.

a long nose bolt also prevents blow back to a certain extent so if you want your gun to cycle quicker that is a good bet

p.s. sorry for gettin off subject

[Dog]

You hammer on thet trigger i had s/f but upgraded to a 2x trigger and trigger job and this is what happened during bursts of fire with s/f boom chop chop chop chop boom chop chop chop and i got tired and bought a p/f body now i haven't chopped one

[rhetor22]

I was just looking at a post that had a new idea for a barrel. This brought me to thinking... No gun can fire fast enough to have 2 balls in the barrel at the same time. If the air pressure can equalize quick enough (don't know if diffusion is fast enough) and If you could time the bolt correctly, when it returns back it would cause a slight suction, pulling a bit of air in thru the barrel and thru the feed. This would eliminate gas blowing up into the feed, and actually assist loading.

[liigod]

how about contemplating how to make the balls feed fast enough with the blow back issue, how about air gun designs eleminates blowback with some crazazy new invention. THAT woudl show ingenuity. Cus then the whiney tournament playing kids who only want vert feeed can do that 18 bps fwith vert that u see in those halo videos.