How to know you're an "Old School" player

[Tyger]

Just off the top of my head.

You own more paintball guns than a 10 man team would need to play a tournament... & You've used them all.

You've ever played a game using a paintgun OLDER Than your opponents / teammates. And they marvel that not only does it still work, but you're actually tagging people with it.

Somewhere, you've got an article of clothing with the remnant of someone's grand expirement to make a better paintball. Specifically, stuff like "Glitter" paint, "Waxy" paint, Iodine stains, neon glowballs, metallics....

Related, you still have a scar from someone's grand expirement to make a better paintball. Specifically, Pro-Bounce, BE's "Brass ball bearings", Zap's "new" shell, Cal Mag when they did the Am open...

You remember that the full auto "SMG-60" was banned for two reasons. .62 and 9 BPS was too fast a rate of fire.

You've handled a 10 round tube made of metal.

You long for the old tournament format : 45 minute games. 15 man teams. 50+ acre woods fields. Capture the flag. And more often than not, a win was scored while opponents were on the field somewhere.

Related, you play big games or scenarios because that's the closest to the way games "used to be played".

More for the old school purists, but you've ever been told you need to put a barrel bag on "The top barrel" of your SC gun. Alternatively, if you've ever argued with a ref / field owner that no barrel bag in his pro shop fits on your PGP.

You remember buying paint in 200 round shrinkwrap boxes. 180 black balls, 20 bright pink. And you'd load them in your stickfeed 9 black, 1 pink, 9 black, 1 pink....

"Paintcheck" Mgazine was East Coast, APG was west coast, and Paintball News was black and white.

You still want to meet the "Ultimate Paintball Warrior".

With some neoprene, an exacto knife, some glue, and a "Butler creek" pop lid, you can make a 40 round ammo box hold 60 balls.

Speaking of that, if you look hard enough, you can find in your collection somewhere a 40, 50, 90, 100, 150 and 200 round hopper. And given time, you can find 10, 40, 90, 100 and 140 pods "somewhere" too.

You've bought a stickfeeder for $25.

You know the origins of the term "Speedball". You also have pictures somewhere of players in an arena couse in camo, plus photos of the "Shocking pink" JT Jerseys the Ironmen wore.

You watched paintball on ESPN in '96 and said aloud "Who planted the doors all over the place?"

The phrase "Magic Box" still makes you cringe.

You've seen so many barrel fads that you're happy to stick with the stock tube your gun came with. Or you're a die-hard of one of the "Old School" companies who hasn't radically changed their style in a decade. (LAPCO, Amrson, J&J...)

A case is 2500 balls, and anything less is a short case.

You've ever "tumbled" paint to make it shoot better.

If you've ever had an argument that "Constant Air" would ruin the game, either way. It also counts if you have a Co2 wrist bracer that holds 6 powerlets and is in camo.

You've sewn patches onto your camo jacket for fields you've been to.

You still wear BDU's because you can't justify spending $100 on a pair of pants just to trash them in a month or three. And you really hate picking burrs out of those fancy jerseys when you play.

You have an e-gun in your hands, you carry almost 600 balls on your back and 200 in the hopper, you're playing a 'groomed' woods field that resembles "Speedball with trees", and you find yourself crawling from one bunker to another because the angles were "just right" and you saw no need to "spray the bunker" you were heading twords.

You understand the satisfaction of setting up a shot, and one-balling a guy from 130+ feet in the goggles.

You have a "Nelson Spring Kit" for your NELSON BASED gun, NOT for an Autococker! And you know why it's so funny to put Nelson springs in an Autococker too. (Think ancestry)

You know where the "World Cup" used to be held, BEFORE the Mouse, and before "Paintball World" in Kissimme...

You remember when JT made a "Kevlar" styled helmet. You also remember that Vents were WAY better than anything else out there. But Jones goggles still ROCKED!

Related, you've ever taken a knife to a pair of "Uvex" goggles in an attmpt to reduce the "Fog". Or you've taken a hacksaw to some "Woodstalk" masks so you could BREATHE under there.

What the kids call "ghetto rig" we call "ingenious" or "making it work". You gearbag has electircal tape, allen wrenches, teflon tape, duct tape, screwdrivers and plyers, zip ties, and several other "fastening devices" meant to hold someone's gear together "for now". Some of your best temporary fixes still reside on your feed necks to this day...

YOU know "The Brute" was the original plastic paintgun. Well, that and the Splatmaster, the "Cheezy 2000", Rapide and all it's offspring....

Any of the following names actually means something to you : Ken Kelsh, Fred Schultz, Chip Kurdt, "Sandman", Bob Gurnsey, Len Canter, Sandra Day, Jim Lively, Randy Kamiya...

(Feeling old yet?)

-Tyger (Who's feeling REALLY old after playing in the blustering cold all morning...)

[AGD]

When you have been around long enough that people go on the other team just to shoot you.

When people half your age WANT to hang out with you.

When flash and glitter guns just make your brain hurt.

When people spending money on marketing hype makes you sick.

When you wipe out the other team with a good move and people are amazed you can still do it.

When you feel an emotional attraction to a paintball product no one ever heard of.

When your older friends come to you to asking what "ownage" means.

When speedball was considered a stupid newbe game.

When pros used 12 grams and everyone else used con-air (and they were proud of it).

When being seen on the playing field meant you sucked.


AGD

[Rope a Dope]

Originally posted by Tyger

You've ever "tumbled" paint to make it shoot better.


I still do that and people wonder what the hell I'm doing to my paint when I load up.

:D

[Tyger]

Heh, that reminds me...

You know you're old school when your first paintgun, the one that looks like an M-16, is back in style.

Come to think of it, same goes for all my old "ALICE" and "Military lookalike" gear too... I can get out the ICS vest and look like a great scenario player now....

EDIT ADD : : If you know the origins of wearing a harness on your BACK....

(That'll get some people thinking....)

-Tyger

[Doc Nickel]

When I first started playing:

* A Rapide with a back-bottle adapter was "high tech", and a forty-round spindle loader would last me two games or more.

* Leaving the tails on your Whippersnapper zip-ties for that "insect" look was considered cool.

* Loaders were still made with PVC and spray-paint.

* There was no such thing as a paintball store. You bought old military gear from an Army Surplus, or new hunting gear- like shotgun shell belts and camo gloves- from a sporting goods store.

* One ten-ounce thermo-valved "California air" fill would last you three weekends, maybe four if you went easy on the autotrigger.

I know what a CAM Tank is, and what the acronym means.

I know who "Wore their paint upside-down".

I know the original name of the field that is now EMR. I also know SC Village used to be called Sat Cong Village, in those pre-Politically-Correct days.

I remember paintball before the Automag, and I recall when Bud's gun was called the Sniper Auto Cocker.

I remember when guns like the Automag were advertised as "true semi-auto" to differentiate them from the double-action guns that called themselves 'semiauto'.

I remember when you could buy real, machined-aluminum slip-on silencers, and that was the hot, trick, top-of-the-line mod for your longbarrel Sheridan.

And I still have:

* Faint blue stains on the trees near my house, from the old Nelson paint- the same stuff banned from SC Village because it stained.

* Opaque black and green 10 round tubes (since they're camo, of course, unlike those bright white ones.)

* Some of the (empty) camoflage California Magnum 200-round boxes.

Last but not least, the hydro on my very first HPA tank expired eight years ago.

Doc.

[cledford]

Originally posted by Doc Nickel
I know the original name of the field that is now EMR. I also know SC Village used to be called Sat Cong Village, in those pre-Politically-Correct days.


Wolf's Lair I believe.

I remember looking the ink off the pages of APG while suffing through HS biology - back when tech articles were along the lines of "how to cut a filed strip slot in your 007" and seing something about a military compund that was a lot like todays scenarios - role playing from the moment you drove up. I always wanted to go...

-Calvin

[Brophog]

When you go to chrono your gun and the field owner screams:

"Is that an antique?" and he's both ignorant and excited that it just might be....

[tyrion2323]

Wow! Tyger, AGD and Doc Nickel! Man, how can I compete with that?
Well, I'm not old school, but here goes:

You still think that "Crazy black" is the coolest splash around!

You wore RENEGADE jerseys and mask-camouflage.

Angels were THE THING to have.

[SN0BL1ND]

Having to split the guy with the VM-68 and the Tippmann 68 Special up because together they had too much firepower...

100 shots lasting 5-6 games...

Those 100 rounds costing $20...

The good ole days...:rolleyes:

[hitech]

Originally posted by Tyger
A win was scored while opponents were on the field somewhere.

That is the part I miss the most.

[D-CeLL]

Originally posted by Tyger
You also remember that Vents were WAY better than anything else out there.

I still got my Vents, too bad I can't get replacement lenses anymore. :mad:

[ogre55]

Originally posted by cledford


Wolf's Lair I believe.

-Calvin

Correct.

And having played at Wolf's Lair, with the patch to prove it on yout camo vest.

Ogre

[Ter-Me-Nate]

ah, you can fix anything on a paintball gun with electrical tape....i even use to carry it in my bdu's during the game just in case lol

stop you guys are making me feel old...

[Gunslinger-ActionBob]

.....you know what a 3357 crosman sounds like and know you can get real close before they'll break on you
.....remember when any mention of hit or dead on a Lively Master field would get you pulled
.....remember buying RPS paint in 60 rd econotubes
.....you were there when Keith laid Jim out with a 20 oz tank and who I'm talking about
.....the videos of Adam Gardner's "game" or lack of it at Tahoe and Nashville
.....Bob McGuire had a TV show on paintball and what time it came on
.....what the Hardcore mod was and what team did them
.....that tiger stripe products used to sponsor the ironmen and Bob Long does look like landscaping in them:p

[Gunslinger-ActionBob]

I lost the contact info but there is a store in hong kong that still has lenses and masks for vents

[cledford]

Originally posted by Brophog
When you go to chrono your gun and the field owner screams:

"Is that an antique?" and he's both ignorant and excited that it just might be....

When the first time you EVER saw a chrono a player brought it to the field and everyone gathered around in interest to see what the heck it was - the only person not in the crowd or curious was the field owner who was too busy grilling hotdogs for sale.

The above statement was what happened the first time I ever chronoed a marker - some guy from CA brought it to the field as a novelty. The field owner could have cared less about it. My Nelspot with "4 thousandths" over valve tube was shooting in the 430s that day. The funny thing was that even though the field didn't have a chrono (it was a big field and no one there had ever seen one) the established field "limit" was 350fps. That was with UVEX goggles and the woodsstalker masks. My how things change...

-Calvin

[Crighton]

Cleaning up the field at the end of the day ment picking up thousands of 12 grams and 10rnd tubes.

Paint was sold 1 10rnd tube for a $1.

Velocity was adjusted on a majority of markers using washers or cut springs.

Your pocket was the ideal storage area for extra tubes and 12 grams.

PB gear came in Camo and Black only.

[oldsoldier]

When paint was sold by the ball, not by the bag.

[Vanced]

I can't help but toss in a few...

Barrels didn't have threads, slots, or ports and everything was pressure fit...

There was no aluminum everything was brass and steel...

You had every intention of having to use the splatmaster holsterd on your hip...and still get laughed at for wearing it during a game.

You've won a game without a shot with a flag pull and a good crawl and sprint...

You've ruined countless surplus camo bandana's by shredding them and hanging off of hoppers and goggles.

Everyone had a secert way to keep their goggles from fogging up other than a double lens...

Played half a game without paint and still won...

Knew how to save paint by scaring the new kids by turning your gun on the side and shooting air when you made your move.

Speedball was just a fad and a waste of paint...

Only time someone needed to charge is if they left their car lights on...

Air was for the guns not the bunkers...

There wasn't a term "Wal-Mart Warrior"

Nobody knew what BPS ment? It should of been SPB!

You were a Bad A** if your hopper had a batery not your gun...

Half a hopper was plenty... half a 100rd hopper was plenty...

And AMEN to winning a game with oponents still on the field!

[Quickling]

wow.. what a turnout! well I fall short of old-school since I started in 98.. but I do have a relateable story.

I play for the rabid squirrels, an all-pump team that competes in semi-auto events. This weekend we had two players meeting for the first time, and they got to the field before the rest of the squirrels. In a building with 30 teams, they had no problem finding each other. And heres what one of them wrote:


I just met and played with a new player today (Amhildreth) and the only way I knew it was him was he wasnt carring totes and totes of equipment.....

[oldsoldier]

Thought of a couple more:


when a "cool" upgrade to your bushy was a new trigger shoe


when a high-end, superfast gun was one where you could hold the trigger back while pumping it.

[Temo Vryce]

Oh you guys are evil... EVIL. I may not be old but I am in paintball years. ANyways here's one more for the list.


- You remember the tri-color VM-68 back when it was orginally called a PMI 3.

[DK1]

Originally posted by Tyger
Just off the top of my head.

You've seen so many barrel fads that you're happy to stick with the stock tube your gun came with. Or you're a die-hard of one of the "Old School" companies who hasn't radically changed their style in a decade. (LAPCO, Amrson, J&J...)

A case is 2500 balls, and anything less is a short case.

(Feeling old yet?)

-Tyger (Who's feeling REALLY old after playing in the blustering cold all morning...)


Man I miss 2500rd cases. I used to love proball platinum...

And I have kept a few barrels that I don't intend to ever sell, including a 10" Carter SS, and a 12" BOA "patent infringing" snakebite. Sadly, the BOA needs renickled, it's got a pit in the bore...

Funny, I remember when angels were new hunks of unknown junk. Now people think that it's old school to want one. Course, back then I used to get in some debates about how it was physically impossible for any barrel, air pressure, or closed bolt system to make a paintball travel any further... oh wait... I still do...

DK1

[Major Jam]

Played with a rented Splatmaster.

You remember when the PGP went from being made with the brown grip handles to the black grips with the new ribbed (not knurled) pump grip.

Trying to find a guy that could solder to brass well and convert your PMI to CA.

Sewing 12-gram wrist packs to your green BDU's so you could carry an extra 5 powerlets.

Playing at Fields of Fire with Dave Youngblood in his silver suit.

[D-CeLL]

when you still refuse to give up your PMI-1 that was converted to constant air and a hopper feed - 4lbs as it sits :D

http://www.killianshouse.com/zX/PBal01.jpg

[MarkM]

Don't forget the must have upgrades for Phantoms included anti-kink bolts, lightened hammers, hardened sears and LAPCO power stems...oh and of course power stems in different sizes, this of course was with the one piece barrel and reciever not the fancy removable one you can get now.
Just so Sniper fans don't get left out....the wierd cam on the pump rod that allowed...slam firing.

Just remembered...you had to pay extra to get a donkey to screw in a constant air tank and if you didn't want to do that then you drilled a 12 gram and threaded a hose into the side to drop the air tank input to either a bottomline or a remote hose :eek:

[GT]

This thread needs a sticky!

[RHYNO]

You read the "Team Navarone" article in APG and dreamed about the lifestyle of sports cars, boats, and a team weight room.

You easily found the newest APG on the magazine rack by looking for the scantily-clad cover model. (usually in a bikini, or micro shorts & tube top.... all in woodland camo of course).

You worried about PB being banned in New Jersey because if it happened there, it could happen where you live.

You knew by sight or name, all the "Lords Of Discipline".

You laughed your butt off at the new "JT Racing" jerseys.

APG covered PB & LAZERTAG.

The only color pages in APG were gun ads, and those were few and far between.

The "Poison" ad was thumb-tacked to your bedroom wall.

Barrel extenders were "must-haves".

Beards were a must so as not to give away your position.

[hitech]

I remember when they first got a chrono at one of the first field I played at. The limit was 325 and I was the only one under. No one else was even close.

[lopxtc]

--You refused to go remote because you liked the feel of the tank in your shoulder, but you still had just as much hose running from the bottom-line\back-bottle to the AIR Valve.

It almost got to be a running joke to see just how much you could use and how you could route it back then.

Aaron

[nerobro]

Originally posted by Doc Nickel
Last but not least, the hydro on my very first HPA tank expired eight years ago.

Doc.

My Raptor has a hydro date of 94 ;-) It's very nearly at the end of it's life.

I however, am not old school :-(

[Tyger]

'Yall talk about chronos. Let's hit the other side of it...

Knurled Aluminum barrel plugs. I was the firt guy to buy one from my local store.

And if you remember all the other expirements we tried. Socks. Tube socks, I mean. Like what you wear on your feet. A lot of fields required socks.

Old school : You ever hated the SP Splash kits, becasue the barrel, gadget grip, and barrel plug were all MATCHED splash annoed.

You ever saw, or owned, the original barrel sock device, made by a small indi company who only was into it for a year.

You actually use the safety on your e-gun grip.

If you've ever taken o-rings off your barel plug becasue the freakin' thing REFUSED To fit with that .70 ring on there!

If you've ever looked at the LAPCO barrel plug and thought to yourself "No, it couldn't be..."

-Tyger

[Dryden]

You purchased bulk 8 packs of elbows in the hope you could find one that approximately fit your ammo box and feed neck without too much extra electrical tape.

Brass Eagle wasn't the punchline of a joke.

You subscribed to APG as a color catalog of mail order merchandise since the World Wide Web hadn't been invented yet.

You and your teammates personally debunked all the Autococker / Automag myths yourselves ten years ago, much to the protest of the guy with the PMI-3 and the other with his F1 Illustrator, who insisted their guns rocked too.

[Tyger]

Oh, wait, gotta add a few more.

PICS I WANT TO FIND :

The Ironmen playing a woods tournamet with PPS Hurricanes, sprinting through the woods.

The NJ Devil Dogs playing speedball in thier "Realtree" jerseys with player numbers on the back.

Jerry Braun standing on a box while filming the 1995 "World Cup" for ESPN.

Any photo of Youngblood in camo from his early days, pre suits. I'd love to put that with his quote from an interview where he said paintball needs to be out of the woods.

I still have photos from 1993's "National Pro Shop" big game. People like Shane Pestina, Oh Pawlack, Tom Kaye, Tim Schloss, Youngblood, Bob Long, Glen Forester, Daryll Trent, Rose Griffith, Marty Tripes, Charles "Happy" Holton... I really should scan them....

Speaking of which :

http://www.tyger.us/pubimages/oldschool/PAT.JPG

If you can name most of these companies from this lame pic, you're in the old school category...

And, finally... All the people talking Nor-Cal / So Cal battle? It's been done. Circa 1991, "Paintcheck" magazine. You're old school if you can name at least 50% of the people in THIS photo :

http://www.tyger.us/pubimages/oldschool/CALI91.JPG

Ok, I'll stop posting pics now. :) But, say, is that Bob Long sporting...

http://www.tyger.us/pubimages/oldschool/BL91.JPG

...A mullet. :D

-Tyger

[hitech]

Originally posted by Tyger
And, finally... All the people talking Nor-Cal / So Cal battle? It's been done. Circa 1991, "Paintcheck" magazine. You're old school if you can name at least 50% of the people in THIS photo :


The picture quality is a little low, but I recognize a lot (or at least thing I do) of people in there. Considering how many of the people I know, I want to know why I wasn't there! If I ever talk to Fred again I'll have to find out! ;)

[lopxtc]

I was at this game, and the one in 92 before the Paintball Zone flooded out in the flood of 1993.

There was a walk group of us that played against the "pros" at the Paintball Zone ... talk about getting walked on.

Aaron


Originally posted by Tyger
Oh, wait, gotta add a few more.

I still have photos from 1993's "National Pro Shop" big game. People like Shane Pestina, Oh Pawlack, Tom Kaye, Tim Schloss, Youngblood, Bob Long, Glen Forester, Daryll Trent, Rose Griffith, Marty Tripes, Charles "Happy" Holton... I really should scan them....

-Tyger

[Chris42050]

I remember haveing a splatmaster and thinking I was hooked up. We mostly used slingshots and shop goggles. I actually thot people with masks were wimps. And 100 paintballs was enough for a day.

[SMG]

You know you are old school when:

-You've walked around after a game to find your SMG-60 stripper clips

-When the guy with the Crossman revolver had to be close enough to touch you if his .50 caliber paintball was going to hit you

-You've been shot to the forehead, cheek and ear while wearing U-Vex goggles

-You were hit in the arm or leg, but were only "wounded"

-You've seen an SMG shoot through/into objects and people

-You were wowed by a huge PVC silencer with camo

-You had a guy on your team who was known for climbing up trees

-You referred to a Nelspot 007's as a "Nelly"

-You bought a plastic stock for your PMI Long Barrel

-You thought that the Sheridan pump rifle shot farther than any other gun (first shot was guaranteed to role out of the barrel with approximatley eight more before it was time to change the CO2)

-Bunkers referred to as "Pill Boxes"

-You played 10 on 10 for four hours and did not get shot or see another player

-You were arrested for playing rec ball in the local forest preserve, park, industrial park, etc.

-You thought about setting trip-wires or booby traps

-You dreamed about playing Wolf's Lair

-You carried a bolt action pistol as a sidearm

[punkncat]

Well I am by no means old school, but by some definitions here I could be.
I always wear camo to EVERY event.
I still play with people known for climbing trees.
Definately have to watch for booby traps and trips.
Tube socks are required equipment, to keep your co2 tanks from clanging together.
The best marker on the field was a Stingray.

[Python14]

-you went to the world cup to watch the games and you only saw 7 players playing in 15 games...and you thought that was so cool.

-you have pics of Marty Bush with a sniper 2

-you remember the first add for the shocker and thought "naw, it'll never do good"

-You've ever just given up and burned your clothes from the day....and only lost $3 in the venture(hell, even I remember turpentine parties)

-Proball wasn't called probounce

-Speedball was to paintball what monster trucks were to the autosports industry.

-Bob Long=Super Mulletine Action

-You know what Phyllis Long looks like

-You bet your friends that you could empty your ammo box in less than a minute....and even though you tried real hard, lost.

-You're familar with "Ping Pong" and "Pinball" (No one has said either of those to me in years)

-You remember Keely Watson when she wore Renegade stuff and didn't have a drivers license.

-You check Durty Dans website for updates

-You thought about making down payments on a Cyber 9000.

-You have a permenant scar in the webbing of your thumb from the quickchange on your PGP.

-You told everyone at the field without the internet or a subscription to APG to keep a lookout for a semi-auto named Chamile.....and you still look.

[Rooster]

"when a high-end, superfast gun was one where you could hold the trigger back while pumping it."

I remember a artical in APG that was a newbie's glossery of paintball terms. That was 91 or so.

[badinfo]

No one got this one yet?

Ya know how to imitate the sound of a 12gram emptying.

You ever got anyone out using the above trick.

[DeeEight]

Originally posted by AGD
When you have been around long enough that people go on the other team just to shoot you.
AGD

When you've been around long enough to remember how TK looked on a 1991 Videotape describing the automag, and thought to yourself... "oh good, it wasn't just me with that hairstyle..."

:D

[DeeEight]

Originally posted by SMG

-You had a guy on your team who was known for climbing up trees

-You thought about setting trip-wires or booby traps

-You carried a bolt action pistol as a sidearm

On the first point, four years ago during a night game, one guy on the other team, stingray in hand, scaled the outside wall of a barn, without ladder, ropes, or climbing aids, to come in thru the hayloft to get the jump on someone.

One the second... its amazing what you can do with spring loaded rat traps, spare guns in your collection, some pulleys, duct tape and nylon cord.

On the third, I carry a Nightmare LB comp as my sidearm.

:rolleyes:

An addition to the list...

Whenever you play a game involving the BATF, someone has a bottle of colt45 in one of their pods ready for double duty as paint remover/lense cleaner and to wash the taste of paintballs out of your mouth after a mask hit.

[Jackel411]

You know your old school when...


- You still play on a team that started in 1981 and then it was called RT Tham Sat! WOOOO Wild Geese :)

- You can recall that the real wild geese's last hurrah was against NH Wild Geese and the game was called becasue a team mate of mine severly sprained his back.

- When you were raised in the game of paintball from birth and later joined up with your father on the same team!

- When " sluggo " doesnt mean an AGD product :)

- When you get all antsy when your shop gets a PMI-1 in for repair over a Dm4

- When you take apart the PMI-1 first :)

- When WGP Ranger didnt mean a crappy Espyder clone

- When you can remember that the first spyder was spelled spider and was an inline blowback semi.

- When you can recall the adds for the gun that was the fist spyder clone called the Asco Mander and still not giggle.

- When HI-Tech meant VM-68 :)

- When Low-Tech meant Splatmaster.

- When you can with out shame say yes... I did coil a remote line around and around my mag so I can use it in the winter.

- When you long for your Vent Predator

- When you can recall that brass eagle was once a very very good gun

- When APG had " Wild Women of the Caribian! "

- When you can say... Line SI... That was some good stuff!

and last.......

- When this game was actually inovative , and people who made the sport grow were not trying to collapse in from the inside out and when the game actually meant something to you.. just not another excuse to go shoot some paint and win something... it was bonding and comradery ( Uhh man I spelled that wrong ).


I dont know... I know it got negative towards the end... but theres reason why I still use old guns over new guns.. simply because there relaible.. ****.. I still have my first gun and never had to repair it yet.. some new guns break right out of the box... go fig..

[SMG]

I totally agree. I won't change the focus of this thread, but there was something more to paintball then and the recent patent issues in paintball are a turn for the worse.

Although my equipment cost hundreds if not thousands more than what I use back then, I feel that it has made things more of a headache. Back in the day I never had to worry about my gun going down, never needed batteries, did not worry about chopping paint, and there were more adults at the fields than kids. You just went out and played and it did not take as much prep time. Now your entire trunk is filled with gear, main gun, backup, tanks, barrel kits, parts, cases of paint, pods, etc., etc., to go to the filed and wait in line. :rolleyes:

[Dryden]

When told that a fellow baller has a Piranha, you affectionately recall how great a marker it was, then ask if they've got the short barrel or long barrel version, not understanding that they're actually talking about a semi-auto.

On the same note, you and your teammates owned all tournaments you entered with your Piranhas in tow.

The choicest manufacturers were Benjamin Sheridan, Tippman, Carter, and 'other'.

The only way to get a marker in your favorite color was to buy a Reb-Line.

You owned one pair of goggles, one marker, and everything else pb related was made by Indian Creek and purchased through National Paintball Supply.

You increased the rate of fire on your auto triggered pump using rubber bands, springs, and washers.

Cleaning the barrel meant turning the marker upside down and dry-firing, one pull of the squeegee, and you were good to go. No need to disassemble to 200 finely-tuned component parts.

Field strip screws were the hottest upgrade.

[845]

The world cup was held at survival ny. :)

[Paintmanmike]

Uvex goggles... OMG!

They uded to "clip" nicely into the green plastic mask, I was so mad when they stopped me from using them.

How about:

Part of the experieince you looked forward to was the march out ot the field.

There was no chrono, no velocity adjust either.

You remember you hated playing in the cold because the bolt on the Sheriden pistol would not turn when it got cold in proximity to opposing players.

You have cigar and CO2 tubes in your spares still.

You still have a CO2 bottle with a knob but its out of date.

You remember your pb buddy getting hit in the lip and a thumb growing there from it.

[banzaimf]

Everyone who ever owned a pair still seem to long for the Vents Predators.

old school,

When teams divided by VM-68, gz-200 and splatmaster rapide, trracers (2 r's), pgp's and slingshots.

Those Uvex goggles with the U-shped middle

the whole head Gog's

looking in shocked amazement at the ROF out of the 1992 autococker.

pro-ball

I still have my 3357!

[WARPED1]

Razorback 3 was the pump to have! With a 7 ounce CO2 tank!

[Pyrate Jim]

Originally posted by Doc Nickel
I know the original name of the field that is now EMR.

Lost the jacket that had the patch, but still have the pin with the wolf's head over a dagger.

How 'bout:
When your only motorized hopper is a VL Pro-Flex.

[Got_Paint]

I am not from the time, but I grew up playin with a bunch of guys that are from that time, and I still do.

If you know what the Gotchya was

If someone at your field shows up with an a4 and everyone crowds around him, you are too busy admiring your pgp

If the field owner ever comes over to you to fondle the guns of "his" days

You remember when Brass Eagle wasn't a s****y company

If People ever ask if you want to borrow some pods when they see your 10 rds

You know that a 10 round tube holds exactly as much liquid as a shot glass ;)

If you own the old leather holsters that the old top tube pg's came in

If you've resulted in smoking cigars to find a different source of 10 rd tubes

If you consider the Splatmaster a decent beginers gun

If you know the name of the first marking pistol "not 007"

You remember when people didn't care if they installed their direct feeds in the opposite direction

If you remember how the six pack blazed the way for constant air

If you know what a duck is

Whenever you use your trusty kp rifle, people think that you accidently brought your rifle to the field

If you have ever woken up to find your pump's barrel on your nipple

[WARPED1]

I loved the Desert Duck............

[Got_Paint]

ya, IMO the woulda been better if they were sc, the direct feed in my opinion is just kinda funky, but still so purty

[WARPED1]

I thoght they were sc? But, I've lost my mind so could be wrong.
I still have my Vents.

[Got_Paint]

http://www.mcarterbrown.com/unplucked/duck.jpg

[WARPED1]

See? Lost my mind!
Remember when Bob Long was the king of aftermarket cockers?

[Got_Paint]

and a time when Glenn Palmer actually ADVERTISED! :eek:

[Mighty Mike]

Remember when autotockers used to look like this?? I bought this back in 94, minus the Palmer stab of course, and I thought I had the best looking marker on the field. :)

http://server5.uploadit.org/files/Tanque-cocker.JPG

[Doc Nickel]

And the interesting thing is there will be hundreds of people at the field who will insist that that 'Cocker couldn't possibly shoot as well as a "modern" 'Cocker.

I mean, it's side feed (whole milliseconds slower than centerfeed) it's got that huge back block (and we all know light weight is better for 'Cocker parts) it has a slider trigger (everyone knows 2-finger swings are faster) and it's not LP (so naturally, the ball won't go as far or as accurately.)

It also doesn't have Ripper milling, fade anno, a P-block, a RAT valve, an FGP reg or an Eclipse ram, so hey, it's gotta suck, right? :D

Doc.

[Got_Paint]

and it doesnt have dye stickies so that means that it'll shoot straighter ;) :D

[Skreemer]

Alternatively, if you've ever argued with a ref / field owner that no barrel bag in his pro shop fits on your PGP.


was this posted shortly after our trip to Tri-City Paintball?


alot of places are switching to "no plugs, bags only" they doesn't work to well on the old style PGP's...

[Big'n slo]

Originally posted by Skreemer



was this posted shortly after our trip to Tri-City Paintball?


alot of places are switching to "no plugs, bags only" they doesn't work to well on the old style PGP's...


Ha! I was told to "Keep it holstered" two weeks ago. :D

Better yet, when I shot the first round everyone stopped to ask "What the hell was that?"

[lopxtc]

--Having to explain that "Rock and Cock" isnt the dirtest thing ever said in paintball to a group of beavis and butthead laughing kids ...


Aaron

[Skreemer]

Originally posted by Big'n slo



Ha! I was told to "Keep it holstered" two weeks ago. :D

Better yet, when I shot the first round everyone stopped to ask "What the hell was that?"

nothing like forgetting the "first shot low second shot will go through the guy" while on the field...


*bloop* AWW CRAP!! *runs like mad rock and cocks another in* *BOOM* opposing player: HOLY SH!!!!


for some reason though nothing beats the first time I was at an indoor field and ran out of paint in my cocker with a DYE 12" stainless barrel... *POP POP POP BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM* and watching half the newbies run away...

[ShooterJM]

Splitting 200 balls and 4 co2's with your buddy because you were only going to play a few hours.

Colored Splatmasters via a can of spray paint.

Fixing a leaky quick change 12 gram by jamming a twig between the cap and the end of the powerlet.

[krafty]

OK, I haven't been in it as long as some, but

You're old school if you remember when the colored VL2000's started showing up at the field. "How the heck are you going to hide with that purple thing on your gun?" :)

... if you remember paying $90 for a case of Stinger (RP seconds) and thinking it was one heck of a deal. Also, knowing that case would last you and your 2 best friends at least a month.

... only one guy at the field shot nitrogen, and he brought his own bulk tank to the staging area every week.

... you still long for the throat protection the Vents Predator gave you (and that cool clip on the goggle strap).

... fields so big you could see the opposing team, but having a 20 minute walk until they're within range.

[Major Jam]

I remember when a 2500 round case of Nelson Red paintballs went from $125 to $119 and we were wild with joy. Each ball was less than 5 cents and we celebrated.

[Furby]

I remember checking my chrono speed by how much bark flew off of the tree I was shooting at.

Have a first edition "Complete Guide to Paintball"

A Bushmaster started out as a pump gun.

First time I got lit up hard was done by an SMG-60

Have held and shot a Desert Duck (Terry Garrett's)

Have held and shot a LAPCO Grey Ghost (Terry Garrett's)

You know who Terry Garrett is and wonder what he's like in person (Exactly as he comes across online...very, very intelligent and VERY dry sense of humor)

Actually know of and look forward to meeting Steve Davidson. (met him last year...I think he's a little bemused that I'm such a fanboy)

The field you first played at is out of business, and has been for several years.

Get called a 'hoser' when you go through 20 balls in an hour

Wonder what's gone wrong with the universe when your Adrenalin Angel is scoffed at and called "old school".

Remember being intimidated when going up against a player with a L7 'mag. (still intimidated, too...dunno why)

Gotten into arguments on RSP

Gotten into arguments on RSP with Tyger

Remembers the huge "'mag vs. 'cocker" thread on RSP


*sigh* It's rough getting old...nearly 34 years on this earth.

[andreb]

Making your own auto-trigger set-up

Having time to actually have little insects fly into your mouth while silently waiting for the opponent

Chilling your CO2 bottle until snow came out of it in order to get a better fill on your 7oz (and nobody though that was unsafe)

Having the burst disc of your seven ounce explode in a hot day (that was considered funny not dangerous)

Shooting my first gun (PMI Piranha Pump) over the chrono and getting 366 fps.

Being allowed on the field with this gun because it had no velocity adjustment so that was it.

Seeing a black and white picture of the All Americans on APG sporting their Phantoms with some weird little holes driled on their barrels.

Noticing there was a pretty beatiful blonde playing for the All A's

Building a PVC silencer for my PMI-III

Making my father drive me to the AGD factory in Wheeling to get a crown point barrel and a power-feed for my 3rd gun, a Mag!

Visiting Bad Boyz Toyz on the same day and seeing a lens from a JT sunglass that was shot by a 12 gauge shotgun on display on top of the counter.


Just some memories of a than 12 year old paintballer

[PaintballChannel]

Getting shot in the lip because your shop goggles didn't quite cover your face...

Getting shot in the lip because your woodstock mask didn't quite cover your face...

Scaring the hell out of people on the field because you owned not one but TWO Rapides...

Modifying your Splatmaster to hold a 40 round loader...

Using the 10 ball tube on your Nelspot 007 as a loader...

Paying $5.00 for ten rounds of paint...

Having those 10 rounds last an hour...

Your only choices in "jersies" was camo and camo...

Remembering thinking it was cool to wear combat boots to play paintball...

Knowing that a Nightmare was just that, a nightmare...

Playing in tournaments where they had a system in place that made it hard to cheat...

Remembering the day that CO2 came in something more than a "cartridge"...

Remembering the big deal over "Semi-Auto" and how it would "ruin paintball"...

Remembering when Bad Company played in camo...

Remembering when bunkers started using air...

Good lord, I've been in this sport too long... :D

[Tyger]

The story of the 7 ouncers blowing reminded me :

"Double Disking"

Or pop cans, pennys, or whatever else we were told we could put in there.

How did we not all go blind or lose fingers?

-Tyger

[WARPED1]

Remember the BE Golden Eagle? Or 4oz steel tanks?

[Got_Paint]

o the golden Eagle, I have dubbed it the gheto duck lol

[andreb]

What about that cool Baracuda ad where the guy is crossing a river with water up to his chest.

[WARPED1]

I've done that!
Remember the first "harnessess", to hold tubes(10 round) or 12g powerlets?
I had friends who would unscrew the top off the KP rifles tube where you put in the 12g, then they would pump the gun, which punctured the seal and sent the powerlet fly across the field.(never during a game).

[Tyger]

Originally posted by WARPED1
(never during a game).

Why not? It'd discourage wipers. "Dude! Those balls are hard!!!!"

-Tyg

[andreb]

Originally posted by Doc Nickel

Last but not least, the hydro on my very first HPA tank expired eight years ago.



Hydro ? Hummmmm.....

[FallNAngel]

Originally posted by andreb
Hydro ? Hummmmm.....

What don't you understand?

[WARPED1]

Originally posted by Tyger


Why not? It'd discourage wipers. "Dude! Those balls are hard!!!!"

-Tyg Yeah, you can't wipe unconsciousness.

[andreb]

Originally posted by FallNAngel


What don't you understand?

Just being sarcastic, as in "Hydro? What is that?"

Sorry if I was misunderstood

André

[WARPED1]

Maybe he thought you crazy Brazillians had a differen't name for hydroing?:D

[andreb]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^:D

[rabidchihauhau]

1. Being the first player at Skirmish USA to own his very own gun...PGP..the NEW model PGP, complete with ten (10) round magazine tube AND pump
2. Playing with an UZI mark I and thinking it was pretty damn cool cause it had an integrated magazine that could hold 43 rounds
3. Experiencing first hand one of the initial techno-cheats in the game: shimming your nelspot or pgp main spring with washers...
4. Being on hand at the Bushmaster introduction frenzy - and thinking that pretty soon paintball guns would all just look like tubes (oh, sorry newbies - that's the Line SI (pre 1990) Sigma Machine PUMP action Bushmaster)
5. Introducing the Gray Ghost to the East Coast and making players run away from the 'machine gun'
6. Lobbying for and receiving a scoreboard at tournaments where EVERYONE could check scores - not just the tournament promoter and his pet team
7. Lobbying for and receiving a formula (actually introducing the formula, but I'm so used to not getting credit these days I almost forgot it was me...) for game scheduling (far better than the old system of being able to change your team name in order to change your draw)
8. Being called 'crazy' for carrying 120 rounds onto the field for one game
9. Spending an entire tournament season beating up on semi-auto teams with pump guns
10. Switching from pump to PMI-IIIs, because they were the only semi with decent range........
11. Arguing with Tom Kaye about the introduction of nitrogen at the PaintCheck 5 Man - out of a sense of concern for safety (lost that one)
12. Arguing with California teams against the introduction of CA (constant air) at tournaments (won THAT one for three years...)
13. Managing to talk the field owner DOWN to $150 per case of paint so the home team could practice more
14. captaining one of the first teams to ever play against an all-female team at a national event - and winning it (Lady Tree Dancers)
15. Arguing the merits of feminist dialectic with (losing) female team who contended that since they were women, doing 'well' was just as good as 'winning' (think I won that one with the counter argument that in paintball, winning counts and losers go home - regardless of their sexual affiliations)
16. Captaining a team that lost one of the first games ever to an all-female team (pump game, am open)
17. manufactuing some of the first stick-feeds ever, the morning before a national tournament
18. championing the tactical concept that no one needed to be left back to 'defend the flag station' and helping to establish the concept of 'run-n-gun'
19. almost being arrested for 'looking like rambo'
20. dismantling my patch jacket when patches were no longer the 'cool' alternate activity at tournaments
(after having paid nearly 200 bucks to have a seamstress sew them on...)
21. best old skool story? averaging 25 to 50 eliminations and surrenders per GAME, and having so many game flags that Skirmish USA offered me free play and paint if I would bring some of them back.......

[Furby]

Okay, I feel like a n00b now.

[Gunslinger-ActionBob]

is that you Jim?

[Furby]

That would be Mr. Davidson.

[Gunslinger-ActionBob]

"Mr Davidson" - the thought of that blew coffee out my nose. Hi Steve
BTW the first upgrade to nellies was wadded up paper towels in the hammers

another one - having a pic of yourself with Bob Guernsy when you bought into the NSG franchise.

laughing yourself into a fit while reading above field owners manual - it had some market predictions and field owner tips in it and also an old paint order invoice in it.
200 balls in tubes with caps - 65.00 dealer cost delivered

[SMG]

Played my first several games with an Uzi Mark I - it would load 1, 2, or three balls at a time and usually chop at least one. On a positive note, we forgot one in the woods all winter and found it the following summer and it still worked.

[rabidchihauhau]

every time I hear about SMGs, I almost blow coffee out of my nose.....

In the vernacular from another 'hobby', I'm a 'pain slut' - but perhaps I better back up.

I've been guilty in the past of allowing my sense of humor to interfere with my sense of common, so, for the record - I love Tippmann products; they're built like tanks, they shoot great out of the box and everyone ought to have an A-5. (I think the factory team's win at the am open, using "guns only fit for field rental" was a big, unheralded wake up call.)

But I digress.

I get a rush when I get lit up. (Maybe that's one reason why I'm the guy always volunteering...). When SMGs hit the fields, lots of folks were nervous: they feared two things - the rate of fire and the 'pain' associated with 315-325 fps shots (there was a time when 60 caliber guns were allowed to fire in that range).

Anyhow, we had one of those 'I'ma gonna toast youse all' kinds of guys toting an SMG out at the field and I inevitably ended up being the person to run into him first. Brrrrrrrrrap - 20 rounds in the chest from about 30 feet. No breaks. Whack. Whack. Whackwhackwhackwhack.... from myself and my backup.

Thus was born the SMIG drill. Find an SMG on the field. Find Steve. Yell 'smig smig smig' at the top of your lungs. (This made the guy with the SMG think that he was intimidating us...) (It also made all of the rest of the team drop whatever they were doing and head on over) Have Steve run at the guy with the SMG. See the guy with the SMG unload his clip. See the rest of the team light up the SMG guy. See Steve smile. See SMG guy walk off the field.

Fun for everyone :)

[rabidchihauhau]

how many old timer 15 man, 12-gram and pump team players are there still out there?

how many still have their pump guns?

how many would be SERIOUS about getting together somewhere, say in two years time, to play paintball the way it was meant to be played?

How many new skool guys would be interested?

[ShooterJM]

Depending where I am and where the event was, I'd be up for it. I don't think I have my splatmaster anymore, but I do have my trracer.

[SMG]

I shot a guy at close range with my SMG (half-pull = one shot / full-pull = entire clip) and several paintball went through his shirt. The guns shot so hot it was unbelievable. You still see some this at the fields. Guy with a model 98 goes to chrony before walking onto the field - 280, 360, 380, 210, 370...

[Quickling]

can a 8 man all pump-team (that competes currently against semis) come play too? :)

I can always ditch the stelring for my pgp :D

[hitech]

I played 15 man, 12 gram pump tournies. I still have my pump, although I never use it. I'd be interested in playing 12 gram pump for a day. :D

[Tyger]

I missed my chance to play 15 man ball, only becasue by the time I was serious about playing it was down to 10. But I'll bring my KP, PGP, and loan the "Hope Nelspot" to someone else. :D :p :rolleyes:

-Tyger

[SMG]

If there were enough people I think I would play pump all the time. I think people assume that its not a fast paced game or that there is not enough fire power to keep it interesting. In my opinion, its more fun because there is more player movement and action. I would love the idea of cutting my paint consumption in half. :)

[Vanced]

Ahh the SMG's ... I remember the one that Dale use to hang on the wall at BOA barrels and being amazed by it and wondering if that was the future of the game...

The pump game is a differnt game... It's like going back to the golf course after a round of Putt-Putt...Or digging out the old 8bit NES and putting the online PS2 or X-Box away...and its is so much fun when it is played just for the love of the game...

and I do love it.. I still own my Splatmaster and a SL-68 ...

And still lucky enough to play more Rec/Woods ball than anything on a manicured speedball/air/X-Ball field...

But even then with the woods full all the sweet spoting full auto RT-98's and A5s and the kids with WAS'd Whatevers out there or even a day that happens to drawl a bunch of newbies with rentals or wall-mart warriors... I have been known to put the Mags down or loan it to one of my friends with a rental and grab the pump and head out... to just have a fun time... I suggest if you get the chance and are able to try it...one kill of a guy with a high end marker with a pump and you just get so much satisfcation and the stories that get told and keep getting told over and over again... that is why a lot of us starting playing this game anyway... just to brag about shooting one of our friends right?

There is just so much to be said for it... even it is just to make myself smile, get a few laughs for myself and thoose watching, and to pretend to be that little kid again running around in the woods even before the guns shot paint and it was just a good shout of BANG! your dead...

[SMG]

Still have my SL-68 II too! Possibly the most indestructible piece of equipment ever built.

[WARPED1]

I was playing airball with a PGP, I bunkered a guy with an IR3. He almost cried as he walked off and saw my gun. He was like 13 years old.

[mrbrutal]

I started playing back in 87/88 and all this stuff really brings back memories. Heres a few I'd like to share:

plastic oil bottles made into hoppers
nelson clones as opposed to today's spyder clones
capture the flag when people acutally tried to return the flag before the opposition was eliminated
shotgun shell holders worked for 10-round tubes and 12 grams
thermo valves
buying my first bulk co2 tank and painting it pink
hacking off the top tube of my PMI II and making my own gravity feed with pvc and brass tubing from the hardware store
actually buying gear at a store, not over the internet
buying a "tightbore" barrel

etc...

[PaintballChannel]

Oh yeah, I forgot one thing...

Starting out playing paintball with a Gotcha gun.

There...I have everyone beat! :D

[WARPED1]

I had the Gotcha guns, never played tho.

[DeerChaser]

The most fun I had was when I started in 1986 with my Slatmaster. then moved up to a PMI1, sold that for a Bushmaster. We played hide and seek basically, they hide, we seek. Some games were HOURS long. Paint was 10 cents a ball at the gun store. I owned a M98 and he rest have been mags. Where I play now, hardly anyone knows what a Automag is, I have yet to see another one!! It's all spyders and Tippmanns (wal-mart). I'm stickin with my ULE Custom, it's fun to make the kids guess.

[Got_Paint]

I've played 15 on 15 pump games, but not tourney,

check out
http://www.paintmagazine.com/cgi-bin/cutecast/cutecast.pl?forum=8&thread=11407

Everyone close to Sacramento should come down, its all free, held once a month, we usually have about 30 people show up.

[adam shannon]

Originally posted by Vanced
Knew how to save paint by scaring the new kids by turning your gun on the side and shooting air when you made your move.



more like knew how to do that on your smg-60 to sucker the oponents into thinking your out so they would rush you...then giving them 20 from the right toe to the left shoulder because that was real recoil not the mil of movement kids whine about now.

if you remember when every player carried either a kaBar or bayonett on their alice gear...and some of them were crazy enough to try and pull it out if you got cought wiping.

[adam shannon]

Originally posted by Jackel411
- When this game was actually inovative , and people who made the sport grow were not trying to collapse in from the inside out and when the game actually meant something to you.. just not another excuse to go shoot some paint and win something... it was bonding and comradery ( Uhh man I spelled that wrong ).

thats why the people who know the true meaning of AO travel halfway across the country just to hang with TK for 1 day then fly home.

[badinfo]

Originally posted by Vanced
Ahh the SMG's ... I remember the one that Dale use to hang on the wall at BOA barrels and being amazed by it and wondering if that was the future of the game...

The pump game is a differnt game... It's like going back to the golf course after a round of Putt-Putt...Or digging out the old 8bit NES and putting the online PS2 or X-Box away...and its is so much fun when it is played just for the love of the game...

and I do love it.. I still own my Splatmaster and a SL-68 ...

And still lucky enough to play more Rec/Woods ball than anything on a manicured speedball/air/X-Ball field...

But even then with the woods full all the sweet spoting full auto RT-98's and A5s and the kids with WAS'd Whatevers out there or even a day that happens to drawl a bunch of newbies with rentals or wall-mart warriors... I have been known to put the Mags down or loan it to one of my friends with a rental and grab the pump and head out... to just have a fun time... I suggest if you get the chance and are able to try it...one kill of a guy with a high end marker with a pump and you just get so much satisfcation and the stories that get told and keep getting told over and over again... that is why a lot of us starting playing this game anyway... just to brag about shooting one of our friends right?

There is just so much to be said for it... even it is just to make myself smile, get a few laughs for myself and thoose watching, and to pretend to be that little kid again running around in the woods even before the guns shot paint and it was just a good shout of BANG! your dead...

Nice post!! Well put sir, well put!

[rabidchihauhau]

gotchya guns - lol - a short sighted effort to rope the 'youth' into playing paintball (back when the average player age was like 35 to 55 or something)

'hey, there's a team playing with semi-autos, lets go check it out.' 'what are those things?' 'you know the guy that makes the six pak? this is his new semi-auto' 'hey, this thing actually gets decent range...' (paraphrased from a conversation between Swarm and Werewolves at the 1989 NA RP Scherer Championship)

misguided product introduction: flip-top caps for ten round tubes, introduced the same year semi-autos started coming out

***

I'd be interested in exploring the possibilities of a woodsball pump only event (not strictly stock, but that's a possibility also) Maybe a 'retro-tournament' with the same rules and etc as the first national open tournaments. Not played for seriousness - but for the love of the competition. (If you don't have 15 guys, we'll put people together; prizes along the lines of a carton of electrical tape, a box of hoseclamps, ten feet of 3/4" pvc pipe, box of cigar tubes, etc).

I know I can swing a venue, and I know I can get it for BYOP or a really decent case price - but to do it right would require scheduling something for like 18 to 24 months from now: is it possible to sustain and build the interest over that time, or is this one of those things that would be 'nice' but will never happen?

Expenses? the venue (minor), support (fill station, chrono, etc, and folks to run it (refs and staffing)

Let me know and I'll start the Retro-Ball event up.

[ogre55]

Originally posted by rabidchihauhau
how many old timer 15 man, 12-gram and pump team players are there still out there?

how many still have their pump guns?

how many would be SERIOUS about getting together somewhere, say in two years time, to play paintball the way it was meant to be played?

How many new skool guys would be interested?

Actually stock and pump play is still alive and well, at least in the northeast. Strategy Plus in CT has stock only days where the fields are measured in acres rather than yards. Go to www.strategyplus.com for more info.

There is a dedicated pump-only league in Texas. Some of the most competetive stock teams are out of Southern California.

There are several boards devoted to stock and pump play. Even here in NYC and the surrounding environs there has been much talk of stock and/or pump days at severeal prominent fields.

Ogre

[ogre55]

Originally posted by SMG
If there were enough people I think I would play pump all the time. I think people assume that its not a fast paced game or that there is not enough fire power to keep it interesting. In my opinion, its more fun because there is more player movement and action. I would love the idea of cutting my paint consumption in half. :)

Whenever anyone says that pump games are slow, invite them to check out some of the Pan/Am stock games on PigTV. Games lasting two-minutes were consider slow and the games were all about movement rather than firepower.

Ogre

[rabidchihauhau]

I'm not that far out of it that I'm unaware of stock class play and pump play taking place fairly regularly in various environs.

A dedicated group of locals was NOT what I was referring to.

I was talking about the possibility of having an EVENT that was dedicated to what I am now calling Retro-Ball; 4+ LARGE woods fields, referees, honest-to-goodness teams of 15-17 players (substitutes) dual flag games scheduled to last an hour each, and vendors in a trade show selling gear dedicated to pump play - folks like CCI, LAPCO, ActionMarkers, etc.

We'll get charlie holton out there to sell all the stuff he's accumulated over the years, guaranteed to come up with parts for things you probably never even heard of.

A Retro Ball Weekend - 3 days; 15 player pump, stock class (7 player?, 5 player?) and top gun contest.

Hey - when was the last time you went to a tournament and only had to buy 5 cases of paint?

When was the last time you played in a competition where spending 20 minutes looking for the other team didn't mean they weren't on the field?

I've got plenty of experience running large events (specifically paintball tournaments with 100+ teams) - I have plenty of friends who can help make this happen (as in venues across the country) and I think a low-key, pump tournament would be of interest to a lot of industry types.

NOT a weekend of playing with 20 or so friends. An EVENT.

Retro Ball - will it happen?

[Quickling]

Also too there is the EMR pump only weekend this year, Aug 24-25th I believe.

[Gunslinger-ActionBob]

We're putting together a pump big game at EMR in August this year FWIW

[DeerChaser]

If I wanted a new pump, which one should I get?

[ogre55]

Originally posted by rabidchihauhau
I'm not that far out of it that I'm unaware of stock class play and pump play taking place fairly regularly in various environs.

A dedicated group of locals was NOT what I was referring to.

I was talking about the possibility of having an EVENT that was dedicated to what I am now calling Retro-Ball; 4+ LARGE woods fields, referees, honest-to-goodness teams of 15-17 players (substitutes) dual flag games scheduled to last an hour each, and vendors in a trade show selling gear dedicated to pump play - folks like CCI, LAPCO, ActionMarkers, etc.

We'll get charlie holton out there to sell all the stuff he's accumulated over the years, guaranteed to come up with parts for things you probably never even heard of.

A Retro Ball Weekend - 3 days; 15 player pump, stock class (7 player?, 5 player?) and top gun contest.

Hey - when was the last time you went to a tournament and only had to buy 5 cases of paint?

When was the last time you played in a competition where spending 20 minutes looking for the other team didn't mean they weren't on the field?

I've got plenty of experience running large events (specifically paintball tournaments with 100+ teams) - I have plenty of friends who can help make this happen (as in venues across the country) and I think a low-key, pump tournament would be of interest to a lot of industry types.

NOT a weekend of playing with 20 or so friends. An EVENT.

Retro Ball - will it happen?

If this thing were to become a reality, I know that I would love to attend such an event.

Ogre

[krafty]

I forgot about one thing...

You're old school if you've got a TIP number (or you know what a TIP number is). Mine's 1550. :)

[GoatBoy]

I'm not quite as old school as a lot of you here, but I have to say, I'm really enjoying this thread.


Since you guys are super oldtimers, let me ask you... Do you have websites or photo repositories of really old stuff? I love looking at really old paintball pictures. I've done some searching, and most of the stuff I find is in like... well, warpig has some really, really old stuff, and the vm68 owner's group... Maybe some sort of oldtimer's photo album?

[badinfo]

Originally posted by DeerChaser
If I wanted a new pump, which one should I get?

I recently picked up a Phantom and am very happy with it. Shoots nice and pretty easy to swap configurations with a few extra parts from CCI


Goatboy, check out www.mcarterbrown.com and there is a link there to the paintball museum online

[Yakko]

If you still use twist-lock barrels.

[Got_Paint]

I belive www.whitewolfairsmithing.com has the cheapeast phantom prices, if your budget is lower look into Pirahna LB's, newer PGP's, and nelson clones, such as tracers, these run around 100. I know a guy who has a palmerized p68 for 200 if your interested

[Tyger]

Originally posted by Yakko
If you still use twist-lock barrels.

Hey! I resembled that remark!

Well, 'till yesterday....

-Tyger (TIP # 21!)

[cledford]

Originally posted by rabidchihauhau
every time I hear about SMGs, I almost blow coffee out of my nose.....

In the vernacular from another 'hobby', I'm a 'pain slut' - but perhaps I better back up.

I've been guilty in the past of allowing my sense of humor to interfere with my sense of common, so, for the record - I love Tippmann products; they're built like tanks, they shoot great out of the box and everyone ought to have an A-5. (I think the factory team's win at the am open, using "guns only fit for field rental" was a big, unheralded wake up call.)

But I digress.

I get a rush when I get lit up. (Maybe that's one reason why I'm the guy always volunteering...). When SMGs hit the fields, lots of folks were nervous: they feared two things - the rate of fire and the 'pain' associated with 315-325 fps shots (there was a time when 60 caliber guns were allowed to fire in that range).

Anyhow, we had one of those 'I'ma gonna toast youse all' kinds of guys toting an SMG out at the field and I inevitably ended up being the person to run into him first. Brrrrrrrrrap - 20 rounds in the chest from about 30 feet. No breaks. Whack. Whack. Whackwhackwhackwhack.... from myself and my backup.

Thus was born the SMIG drill. Find an SMG on the field. Find Steve. Yell 'smig smig smig' at the top of your lungs. (This made the guy with the SMG think that he was intimidating us...) (It also made all of the rest of the team drop whatever they were doing and head on over) Have Steve run at the guy with the SMG. See the guy with the SMG unload his clip. See the rest of the team light up the SMG guy. See Steve smile. See SMG guy walk off the field.

Fun for everyone :)


I used to consider myself a "SMG" hunter. When I heard one on the field I immediately headed into that direction to take him out. The 68 caliber pump EASILY outranged the .62 SMG. Even if the guy could drop a couple balls in on you they were harder then the 68s and bounced more often then not. The cool thing that was this was when paintball tactics built around technology was born. Then next thing I noticed ( about 3 weekends later) was that you never found a SMG on the field without a pump "escort."

-Calvin

[billmi]

If you used WARPIG back when it was called ftp.cati.csufresno.edu...

[M-a-s-sDriver]

You certainly are old "something" if...

You bought paint from a guy named Birdsong in metal tubes for 2 bucks a hit. His apartment was covered in vietnam era war banners saying things like "Kill 'em all, let God sort 'em out."
Birdsong is STILL reffing at Combat Zone and will nail you with a litany of "true" war stories involving snipers, Marines,Navy SEALS, Ruby Ridge, Indians, Horses, and living outdoors in the middle of L.A.

You played Store Wars in Napa. 400 against 400. You are REALLY dirt if you were on the store owners team in the bunker holding off 700 bloodthirsty numbskulls intent on your death.

You have shot Camille.

You were watching Glenn put the ram in the prototype Blazer, not even annoed yet.

You have invited the entire "Palmer's Factory Team" (Dogs of War) to play at your "homefield" (The River Bottoms)...And they came. And how everyone that heard about it and owned a paintball gun showed up to paste them.

You have drank Separators the night beforea game that you camped out at, and know what a Separator is.

You know how to stalk, and your team had a "Pointman".

You mixed Super Shell with Gator-ball. Super to cut the branches,Gator for the black shell and easy to see green paint.

Last but not least... The feeling you are going to pee on yourself walking down a path, seeing nobody, knowing they are there, about to get totally thrashed by hot guns, and knowing it's the best feeling there is.
Brent.

[rabidchihauhau]

quick silver 12-gram changers....ratattack 12-gram changers;

WITH check valves in them - and if you are old skool, you know check valves in changers were illegal gear

old skool - watching a kid take apart a ninja nightmare and having everyone within eyeshot say 'now you know why they named it the nightmare'

you are if you remember Medallion Custom Emblems...and even more so if you know why they went out of business.

which reminds me - old paintball company time:

Command Post (belly up and leaving lots of debt behind)
T.A.G. Supply (The Action Game - short lived distributor)
Ultimate Game (another distributor biting the dust)

Can we say A.G.S.? Adventure Game Supplies, which during a partner brawl morphed into A.G.S. and....? anyone?

T.A.S.O. - that's right.

Granddaddy of them all - National Survival Game Inc. They had a similar problem to Medallion's, which led to the loss of a lot of early game history.....

Anyone ever put a down-payment on a Destroyer?

How about an I.C.S. vest? (You could recognize a player of questionable virtue just by the presence of an ICS combat vest combined with Thunderwear fingerless gloves - greatest wiping combo ever invented for the game...)

***

In answer to the question about old skool archives: I've been gathering my old articles and some pics and sometime this year I plan on putting them up on a website - along with a little history 'lesson' about the game.

[Got_Paint]

Originally posted by M-a-s-sDriver

You have invited the entire "Palmer's Factory Team" (Dogs of War) to play at your "homefield" (The River Bottoms)...And they came. And how everyone that heard about it and owned a paintball gun showed up to paste them.



we came close, we had lori, craig, allen, and max has came before.

anyone here remember the 707's?

[badinfo]

Oh yeah, one other one I dont think got posted yet, you were playing before most of the kids at your local field were even born :D

[Brophog]

Originally posted by badinfo
Oh yeah, one other one I dont think got posted yet, you were playing before most of the kids at your local field were even born :D

Don't remind us!;)

[Mok_Star]

Originally posted by DK1

And I have kept a few barrels that I don't intend to ever sell, including a 10" Carter SS, and a 12" BOA "patent infringing" snakebite. Sadly, the BOA needs renickled, it's got a pit in the bore...

DK1
still use the BOA snakebite to this day...BOA is the WAY



http://paintballmedia.com/albums/Texball2004_rejects/texball_04_040221_153944_6529.jpg


BTW: started playing paintball on dec 6th 1986, still have the splatmaster i used day one, went to a p-68 pirahna, the pump not the new semi, then to a automag (#000398), still have it and it works great, been with AGD ever since...

I remember when you wanted to get the flag you had to run..barefoot, through the snow, uphill, both ways..kids these days got it easy.....

[billmi]

Originally posted by rabidchihauhau

Anyone ever put a down-payment on a Destroyer?




Hehehehe....

http://www.warpig.com/paintball/articles/dest1.jpg

http://www.warpig.com/paintball/articles/dest2.jpg

http://www.warpig.com/paintball/articles/funkyguns.shtml


You're old-school if...

You took a hacksaw to a Nightmare to make it direct feed.

You upgraded from stick feed to a hopper made from an oil can.

You owned a hopper that had "magic fish lips."

You know who BLuR and Dave McCarty are.

[Tyger]

Originally posted by billmi

You owned a hopper that had "magic fish lips."

You know who BLuR and Dave McCarty are.

I haven't SEEN blUr (or yor spelling either, it moprhed a few times) in a decade. If anyone knws his wherabouts, tell him he's a pud. He'll get a laugh.

As far as Fish Lips? You don't know the half of that... I got an earfull from Sgt. Splatter. Specifically why thye're called a "Whaler" and a "Guppy". Guppys feed the Whaler, you see....

-Tyger

[billmi]

And I will also point out, that you are old school if your 'mag has the Bortex mod. :-)

[WARPED1]

A 200 round box of Cal Mag lasted you 3 weeks of play, even with target shooting before a game.
Or you played like this *pump shoot pump shoot shake shake pump shoot shake pump shoot*

[Jackel411]

Im back with more.... These are localized sorta :)

-If you can remember Long Island and paintball Pre-cousins.... ahhh heaven.

-If you can remember taking the day off from school to go hang out with Tyger and the rest of the guys when they made the book they wrote.... ( I still giggle about the girls that were there tyger who the heck were they again? )

-When you can answer this question " Who had a big chrome duel tanked BIG assed regged silenced 2 foot long barreled pump gun "

-When said person still worked for JT :)

-When you dont cringe about gassing up a rusty very worn out pump gun , but cringe when gassing up a shocker.

-When you still get the willy's for using a WGP pump changer

-When you can recall that used KP'2 were like todays used spyders :)

-When you had this scenario...... Trick out , mill up , completely rework a VM68 then add nitro.... and the spyders came out?

-When Earon Carter will give you his direct line at dye :)
( NO!!! Nobody can have it! )

- When sniper came from the factory in a few ways ( this is in the mid 90's ) Sniper 2 , Sniper 3 , Sniper SC? They never made it but it was an option...

-When you can recall wacking a splatmaster into your head to cock it...and still can do it and not get hurt.

-When you can say you had a beer or food at a Wild Geese Camp out any where.... PBLI , West Point , SNY

Ill come up with more...

[WARPED1]

When you got lost looking for the other team.
When you left 2 guys back at the flag base to guard flag.
You call it base instead of station.
When eliminations were kills(damn pc world)

[FaSSt]

If you remember the breech-drop vs. bore drop debate...

If you know where the ICS logo originally came from...

[Jackel411]

Never mind that :)

If you know what Kieth Idema ( owner of ICS ) did and why ICS went away..... and as a side note.. that he is a Combat analist for Fox: Fair and Ballenced :)

[Lohman446]

When you remember the game Gotcha for the Nintendo was the coolest nintendo game out

[WARPED1]

When the movie Gotcha!, starring Anthony Edwards, inspired your love of paintball.

[Tyger]

All this ICS talk...

You know, I *worked* for Keith Idema... I wrote for Paintball Planet!

I still have several ICS vests too, but I can't use 'em. My back is NOT happy with me... I might have to make a "Micah Mod" for my Redz pack....

-Tyger

[Mok_Star]

Originally posted by Jackel411



-When you can answer this question " Who had a big chrome duel tanked BIG assed regged silenced 2 foot long barreled pump gun "



i remember...dave youngblood of team navarone, still have the apg with him and that marker on the cover, think the title was "lancelot from conneticut" or something like that, will have to dig it up....

[Lee]

Originally posted by WARPED1
A 200 round box of Cal Mag lasted you 3 weeks of play, even with target shooting before a game.
Or you played like this *pump shoot pump shoot shake shake pump shoot shake pump shoot*

god...cal mag. we used to beg our field owner to get that for us.

i don't know if anyone has posted this yet or not, but here goes:

.....if you remember when paint came in one bag of 2500 rounds and cost at least 100$ and 3 or 4 guys could play a 24 hour game with one case.....

[Lee]

Originally posted by rabidchihauhau
how many old timer 15 man, 12-gram and pump team players are there still out there?

how many still have their pump guns?

how many would be SERIOUS about getting together somewhere, say in two years time, to play paintball the way it was meant to be played?

How many new skool guys would be interested?


here i am!

put me on the list and let me know when. i'll un-retire my anihilater.

[Lee]

Originally posted by rabidchihauhau
I'm not that far out of it that I'm unaware of stock class play and pump play taking place fairly regularly in various environs.

A dedicated group of locals was NOT what I was referring to.

I was talking about the possibility of having an EVENT that was dedicated to what I am now calling Retro-Ball; 4+ LARGE woods fields, referees, honest-to-goodness teams of 15-17 players (substitutes) dual flag games scheduled to last an hour each, and vendors in a trade show selling gear dedicated to pump play - folks like CCI, LAPCO, ActionMarkers, etc.

We'll get charlie holton out there to sell all the stuff he's accumulated over the years, guaranteed to come up with parts for things you probably never even heard of.

A Retro Ball Weekend - 3 days; 15 player pump, stock class (7 player?, 5 player?) and top gun contest.

Hey - when was the last time you went to a tournament and only had to buy 5 cases of paint?

When was the last time you played in a competition where spending 20 minutes looking for the other team didn't mean they weren't on the field?

I've got plenty of experience running large events (specifically paintball tournaments with 100+ teams) - I have plenty of friends who can help make this happen (as in venues across the country) and I think a low-key, pump tournament would be of interest to a lot of industry types.

NOT a weekend of playing with 20 or so friends. An EVENT.

Retro Ball - will it happen?

please do it in florida, pump play is scarce here and needs a shot in the arm.

hmmmm....disney?........

[Brophog]

When you've been playing long enough to remember making the decision not to switch to a semi-auto, and don't regret it to this day!;)

[Mike Smith]

I remember the Bortex mod for the Mag....

Our field had to ban them, due to the freeway that was 1000 yards from the field. We kept getting complaints from the vehicles getting hit by paintballs from the Mags that had the bortex mod....

[Jackel411]

Bingo Mok ;)

[ogre55]

If you remember the first batch of hotshot paintballs with shell so thick that you could use them to cut through brush.

If you remember using the little cardboard box that Cal-Mags came in for a tool box.

When all you needed to maintain your guns could fit into a little cardboard box.

Ogre

[rabidchihauhau]

whew - LOTS of cool stuff to remember

Here's a personal/local one:

attending (yet another) Top Gun Paintball Grand Opening with Grey Ghost and 12-gram quick changer. Stepping up to the chrono line only to have some yutz in from of me start laughing and poking his buddy in the ribs; finally annoyed enough to ask what was so funny, only to be informed that 'you're gonna have trouble chroning that gun without a tank bud...' laughing back as I explained 12 grams...receiving the come back that 'I'm glad you're on the other team'...promising the guy that I would meet him at the 50 (didn't call it that back then) and popping out him AND his 3 snickering friends, all the while enjoying the anguished cries of 'where is he, where are we taking fire from?'

which reminds me: not worrying about paintball being illegal in Jersey cause you belonged to a 'private club'

ICS: Kieth tried to rope me in at the end there as being 'one of the only truly honest writers out there' during his brief stay at the Am Open one year. I managed to avoid him for the half day it took for him to be made to leave...

What paintball publication is the only one to have featured a mug shot on its cover?

BTW - that was Dave Dehan with the silver, dual tanked gun and man, let me tell you, you haven't LIVED until you've watched him do his anti-paintball dance (and BTW - what event forced Dave to give up his trademarked black suit - and what old time player offered to have a replacement made that met rule specs for uniforms?) - I never knew a guy could move like that...

That should keep you guys going for a bit...

[Doobie]

I didn't have time to read the whole thread, but here are some of mine:

You played your first tournament with a walk on team and you had the "best gun"...a Line SI Bushmaster DLX with the Oilcan hopper.

You played the NH Wild Geese during that tournament and got waffle stomped!

You paid $70-80 for a 20 oz C02 tank.

You went to the first World Cup at Survival, NY and all the vendors fit under one tent!

You fired the proto PMI-3 and 68 Specials at that event.

Speedball was a side event for all the teams who didn't make the cut for the Semi-final round!

You reffed the speedball!

Your team wouldn't play the team "across town" because they used CA.

They made fun of your team for still using 12 grams.

You saw the price tag on the first Automag and said, "I'll never pay that much for a gun!"

Putting a 10rnd tube in backwards in the front of your 007 made the paint feed faster, eliminating the "rock and cock".

You desperately wanted a "speed wheel" for your 007.

"The longer the barrel...the more accurate"

Jessica Sparks was a Lawyer who played paintball, not a paintball-playing Lawyer.

[Tyger]

Thought on RetroBall...

Can we have a rule abut clothing? Specifically make camouflage MANDITORY?

Except for "Total Greif", the can wear purple. Hey, they used to wear purple in the woods, so I don't see a prolem letting htem go back to their "Throwback" uniforms...

-Tyger

[SMG]

Camoflage should be mandatory (tiger strip of course).

I remember when people first started showing up at fields wearing jerseys and most of the old school guys could not believe it. Even though I play on a team, I think that a lot of the clothing worn at fields now looks absolutely ridicoulous. If I wanted to wear a nlyon suit covered with red flames I would join a circus - but if I were 15 I would probably feel differently.

[WARPED1]

In my now 14 years of playing the game, 11 of those in tourney, 8 of THOSE in NPPL, I have recently quit tourney ball completely. I was sick of the whining and rampant cheating(nearly EVERY pro cheats, Salm just got caught), so off to scenario games I go again!
Camo should be required in Retro ball, and not those olive JT jersies, no jersies whatsoever!

[can'tthink of1]

When there is no longer a company to call, only a few techies.

I've played for a year, and I own a tribal.If you would of tried to call Toxic Toys in 1999 there would be no answer. I'm not really an "old school" player, just shoot an "old school" marker, well old school imo...

[Jackel411]

SMG...

See I know how you feel I just JUST broke down and bought a set of paintball pants and a jersey.. I felt silly doing major events and managing a PB store and still wearing old school camos and a black shirt...

So now I play in an all black and grey motif thanks to empire.. some of the less " QEFTSG " looking gear

[SMG]

Jackel411- I am in the same boat, I wear the team jersey and just ordered some pants. :rolleyes:

I think pump games are much more interesting to watch than semi-games on tourney fields. Just watch some X Ball games on Pig TV and its hard to tell the games apart.

Anyways, you know your old school when...

-Newest gun on the field was a Puma pistol.

-You lost your gravity feed when it hit a tree as you rushed a pill box.

-You watched teamates sprawled out on the fied with every tool known to man trying to get their Budd Orr Pump to work in the middle of a game.

-You sent your SMG to Tippman for the 68 cal conversion.

[Mok_Star]

as for retro ball, this sounds great..but as far as mandatory camo...well i neered wore camo, i use to wear black concert t-shirts and jerseys ( <-- baseball style with band logos )...until smart parts started the renegade line ten i use the advantage print, still have my advantage 'unique sporting' 6 pack...but as far as the "racing" style jersey, yes, not allowed, but we should allow the renegade line and such..


also can we play with just the goggles like the old days, sign a special waiver or something :)

man this sounds so much fun, lets start a league, 15 man teams from each state, i bet i can get some of the BUSHWACKERS in on this

[magmonkey]

oh man this is a good post,

how about strange ordanace m69 paint greanades
mmmmm sketchy friction wicks (never trust that they were an 8 sec burn)

buying my first sheridan from pmi out of the back of popular mechanics

paying 427.90 for my first semi (a pnumatic design storm)

being shot in the ear with red on red calmag
shell, paint, BLOOD!

choosing between the jt whipper and the cool looking space helmet mask

choosing the whipper and ending up getting shot in the ear by red on red calmag:)

having the living crap scared out of me the first time I went on the field against mags

wearing tiger stripes
making fun of teams for wearing renagade "cammie jamies", or those LOUD colored jt jerseys


on a side note I would love to play retoball,

one idea it should be in new hampshire as close to the original location as possible


Alan
Destructive Customs

[Tyger]

I wanted one of these!!!!
http://www.tyger.us/paintball/photo/oldschool/PKOCH90.JPG

Yes, I've been digging...

-Tyger

[rabidchihauhau]

Okay - as is usually the case, having mentioned thoughts in public is forcing me to accelerate my plans.

I've seen lots of good suggestions and I've been getting phone calls with promises of help and support. Not wanting this thing to get away from me (and not wanting it to get out of hand either - I know from the enthusiasm that lots of people want to see this happen and I'm SURE that those who do want it to happen RIGHT), I'm going to go against my better judgement and begin things now.

First and foremost, I've trademarked retro-ball (and retroball). I hold these trademarks in trust for what might become an organization in the future.

Second, my basic plan is as follows: first, solve the funding issue: while I have no intention of raping anyone on prices, events do cost - and here's why: IF you all want this thing to have any legs and gain the kind of support necessary in order to keep it happening and growing, dollars are needed for promotion, management and advertising, if for nothing else. (Even if paint were free, the venue were free and good experienced refs volunteered, there would still be a need for those things mentioned.)

I have several good ideas on solving the funding issue, but it will take a little time to develop them.

Third: I never have been nor will I ever be about a "short term return". This puts me at a disadvantage when it comes to dealing with people who ARE about making short term dollars. Why? Because they conceal their real motiviations, promise you the world and end up controlling the dollars, so that even when you do see through their line of BS, its too late to do anything about it.

When I started NPPL in 1992, it was about long-term growth. I put a 5 YEAR plan on the table that was achievable and affordable and designed to grow the sport; its 11 years later and we're still not there. Within two years of starting, the 'promoters' were back in control - so much so that the NPPL never received a single entry fee check - it all went to the promoters first, who then decided how much, if any, to give back to the organization.

Imagine trying to effect meaningful change when the people you need to make all the changes control all the money...

How did they accomplish that? They promised the teams (who were members) that they would make money through shareholder dividend checks at the end of each year. I call it 'waving the shiny object in front of their faces' - and, unfortunately, shiny objects tend to distract and confuse most intelligent people.

This current effort (Retro-ball) will ONLY turn in to what you all are indicating you want IF you support the long term development and the concept that building something right comes FIRST; if you build it right, the $ will be there in the end.

Forget about the dollars: costs and etc for what I am agreeing to do will be totally transparent for all to see, inspect and question - but I have GOT to have your support in building this thing the right way, without having to worry about anyone being distracted by bright, shiny objects.

Be vigilant, be wary and always ask where the money is going and where it is coming from if someone else starts making loud noises about what we are doing and how they can do it better/faster/cheaper.

Fourth, this is not about ME - its about YOU all being able to tap into the experience and contacts that I have built up over the years. That means I need ACTIVE help and support - starting with the following:

A. I really liked the idea of a 'team from each state' that Mok_star posted.

We may not be able to achieve that goal, but its a good way to kick off the creation of teams, support regional efforts and have this mean something on a national level, so - will people who are interested in forming their state's team please get in touch, either through this board or via email to sdandkg@hotmail.com

I'm looking for motivated people who have good field and player contacts, who can put a few hours a week into this (just a few hours a week): you'll be responsible for gathering the names and contact info of pump players/interested players and/or teams from your state, and working on local support for their efforts.

B. Lee has offered to help with reffing. I'm sure we all want to AVOID the whole 'teams reffing teams' thing; this means either find experienced woods refs who are willing to work cheap (at first), or developing a program for quickly training good woods reffing skills (say over a weekend or two); more than likely, the final solution will be a combination of the two. So, I'm asking Lee if he will head up this beginning effort and for anyone who has an interest in volunteering to ref to get in touch with him.

C. Any manufacturers who have been reading this and wish to work on it, please get in touch with me at the hotmail address listed previously.

D. Same for fields; I love the idea of using a virgin locale - but on the other hand, its difficult to tell how unplayed woods fields break out until after they've been used for a bit, so its probably smarter to use an existing field. Fields, particularly those located in the center of the country, if you are interested in hosting an event, and think you have the facilities to do so, get in touch.

E. Finally; we should ALL make a strong committment to having no tolerance for unfair, cheating play. I remember the first NPPL tournament, when I watched winners AND losers - and players who had major rivalries with each other, all walk off the fields with smiles on their faces, because they knew that they had played in good, clean, fair games. I'm not looking for an oath or anything like that, but I do want to establish, from the beginning, that what we are building will not tolerate cheating play and that the organization itself will stand behind a committment to fair and honest play.

Ok. I've now stuck my head in the noose, so its now time for anyone who wants to start trying to tear things down, to attack me, to bring politics into it and to try and muddy the waters to do so. Do us the courtesy of getting it out in the open now so we can address your issues and then move on with the real tasks at hand.

Retro-Ball - Going Back to the Future of Paintball

[Jackel411]

Tyger that mask almost looks like a Dye Invision... hmmmmmmm


RetroBall.... Hell..

Count Wild Geese and ECA in

[emanjamin]

Man, those are hilarious! Keep them coming...I remember some of those too.

[SMG]

I had the giant frankenstein looking mask with the neck protector drape in the front - it would start fogging before you even put it on. I loved the small JT masks.

For all the time we only wore goggles, I do not remember people getting shot in the face very often.

[Lee]

"Lee has offered to help with reffing."

i'll do whatever i can to asisst. just lmk.

[rabidchihauhau]

I'll be devoting a web site to the retroball effort and, at virtually the same time, I will be opening up a cafepress site to support it with sales of retroball logo gear which means:

I need a volunteer logo designer (rights to the artwork must transfer to the organization, credit will be attributed, once things are established and IF things are working, we will then establish a royalty payment, but no promises on that score)


PS - no reason why we can't have multiple designs...

I also need a volunteer website maintainer; credit will be given, registration fees and hosting fees will be paid for by me. My fiance is a really good webwench, but she's got her hands full right now; she'll help, but we need someone who can do the daily grind stuff. Again, IF things work, sometime in the future we'll discuss compensation, but for now it will be a labor of love on the volunteer's part.

Everything I Ever Needed to Know About Paintball, I Learned in Old Skool.....

or

Top Ten Reasons to Play Retroball

how about a few entries for those? We'll put them on the coffeemugs.

I would also like to request a formal 'sign up' from each and every individual who has expressed interest and is willing to, at the very least, try and enter a team at the event, and/or do volunteer work. Please send an email to sdandkg@hotmail.com and state your full name, give me a mailing address and a phone number, make sure the return email address is good, put Retroball in the subject and briefly state in the body of the email what your interest is - such as volunteer, team captain, interested player, etc.

One of the things the website will focus on is putting pump players from the same regions together with each other.

Since its easier (and only because its easier), mailings and such from this will be on an opt-out basis (in other words, if you send me an email, you will be added to the contact list and will receive emails and etc). If at some time in the future you wish to no longer be included, you will need to contact me again and tell me that - otherwise I'll keep on spamming you (lol).

More stuff: can someone put together a list of companies that currently manufacture pump guns - or who used to manufacture pump guns - who are still in the paintball industry. Do a little homework, please.

Next step - demonstrating that there is a market for this. I need to hear from everyone who has the slightest interest - be it watching, playing, talking about, collecting, whatever. Numbers is the game here. Get in touch with everyone you know who is even slightly pump-oriented, give them the email address - sdandkg@hotmail.com - and have them send me an email.

I'll be using that information to gather some advertising support.

[rabidchihauhau]

you know you're old skool when you can say you've had to run out of cover to retrieve the barrel you just shot off of your gun....

[FirePro84]

wow, i'm gonna have to save all these...hehe

[magmonkey]

we have been building the missing pum mag parts for about a year.

if anybody has any hard to find parts they need re made shoot us an email to info@destructivecustoms.com

Alan
Destructive Customs

[rabidchihauhau]

Ok, so here goes the jump off the cliff:

we're looking at a September time frame for the RetroBall event.

We need enough time to get this thing into print and to spread the word, but not so much lead time that people lose interest and enthusiasm, and 6 months seems to be a reasonable compromise. I've put events together in less time (wasn't happy with it), so I know it can be done, but I wouldn't want to try on a shorter time frame, and later in the year would cut down on possible venues and really starts to run into scheduling conflicts with all kinds of other events. So there you go - September time frame.

We're looking at venues: central part of the country is preferred (for travel purposes, make it as inexpensive as possible for the largest number of people...)

The venue ought to have the following:

30 minutes or less travel time to a national airport
old growth forest with rolling terrain
6+ decent-sized woods fields
1 or more speedball/concept field
reasonable rate hotels - with room availability of approximately 150+ rooms or more
a hotel either next to or within walking distance of the playing site (this is 'like to have', not mandatory) - or a hotel with woods next to it that can be converted into playing fields

If you would like to suggest a venue that meets most or all of the above requirements, please do so.

[rabidchihauhau]

We'd like to generate as much participation from players as possible. To start that off, we want the players to help us decide what events to host. We'll take all the suggestions you want to make, put together a list and then ask players who want to attend which of those events they want to play in. The events with attendance will be held.

Our intention is to have the event consist of several different activities, with scheduling such that you will be able to participate in multiple activities.

1. Call for suggestions of activities

2. List so far:

true stock class (rock-n-cock, 12-gram only, tilt-feed only)
modified stock class (stick feeds, direct feeds, autogriggers, 12-gram only)
tournament pump gun (ca allowed, 45-60 min game, large fields)
pump speedball
old timers game (for people who actually played this when it was the only paintball around)
multi-hour big game
open play (pumps only)

team size for any of the above - 5, 7, 10, 12 or 15

Please add to this list.

[rabidchihauhau]

I've been hearing from old skool pump players all day long - some folks who I haven't heard from in almost 15 years.

This thing is beginning to grow.

Please - if you are from an old skool team - get in touch with your old teammates and let them know.

I've got old time 15 man teams talking about getting back together again, I've got one industry publication already agreeing to support it, and I have a tentative AND amazing offer from a field that knows all about supporting pump play.

This is now officially going to happen.

[billmi]

Re: location...

Spacecoast Paintball in Titusville, FL fits everything but the walking distance to the hotel. But there is one just a couple of miles away, and plenty more within 15 minutes drive.

30 minutes from Orlando International Airport which is one of the most affordable air destinations in the US...

Rolling terrain wooded fields, as well as speedball fields...

Plus consider the geek factor. Touring Kennedy Space Center is an easy add on for anyone making the trip, it's basically on the other side of the freeway from the field (OK, a little further, but not much.)

[rabidchihauhau]

I've been hearing from lots of old skool guys - calling me all day. There is a lot of interest.

I put out feelers to several fields and I have a tentative committment for the perfect facility.

In response to Bill's suggestion of spacecoast - I have had them under consideration as a 'local' location, in the event that things needed to be local, rather than national.

They do have a great park and an event there would definately be a good one, but for now, I'm going to run with the field I've already mentioned.

We're working on details right now, they've promised support and then some.

So - we're definately looking at september and we may already have a field.

[Tyger]

Groovy.

I'll start things on my end as well. Nero, I hope you're up for a roadtrip. Crack out the Tigerstripes.

Unrelated, do you think we can con TK into coming? I know he's got that REALLY old school "Tiger Stripe" jumpsuit... I think we cold even scrape together a pump mag...

-Tyger

[magmonkey]

if will get him there we will bring a couple extra pump mags

[rabidchihauhau]

I've already got some 'celebs' in mind - adding tom would be like putting little sugar flowers on the icing....

Tom is more than welcome: if we end up having celeb events, he will be vetted into that position - with one proviso:

Tom is NOT allowed to introduce any new tech at the event - no strange scuba-thingies on the back, no bizarre looking stocks, no remote-controlled paintball drones, no paintball guns that compress their own gas and mold their own plastic paintballs right in the breech and fire at vulcan-like rpms, nothing called a panther anything - in fact, I think he'll have to play naked if we want to be absolutely sure that he's not going to start a new tech revolution at this event... I remember the last two times it happend, and BOTH times it cost me money!

So far as other celebs go - I've been told by one well known former pumper and industry giant that he is talking to at least two other former pump players and now industry giants (who he believes will be very interested) and I've yet to start making phone calls on that score, so I'm pretty sure we can count on at least a few being there.

Which brings me to Paintball Industry Giants - or P.I.G.s for short.

I put together a list several years ago of the 100 people who I thought deserved to be on the PIG list. I created the list kind of like Time magazine's man-of-the-year issue: in other words, the good and the bad aren't measured, simply the impact and influence.

I'm sure some of you can imagine some of the names on that list.

Well, I'm pretty sure its time to really recognize achievement in the paintball industry (we used to do that kind of thing - PaintCheck magazine's annual awards, PCRI's awards, The Sargie Awards, etc, but they've fallen out of favor), so I think one of the events at RetroBall will be the awarding of the first annual P.I.G. Awards (sorry Dawn and Bill - but think about it this way; W.A.R.P.I.G. can now stand for We ARe Paintball Industry Giants...).

We'll award 100 to 250 Piggies at Retroball, in order to catch up for the past 23 years, and then award several each year thereafter.

Categories would include things like 'team', 'player', 'company', 'ambassador' 'inventor', 'general contribution to the industry', and 'effecting change in the industry'.

You guys add categories and nominees.

Obvious candidates for the 'retro' PIG awards would be people like Bob Gaines, Hayes Noel, Gurnsey, Caleb Strong, Jeff Perlmutter, Bob Long, Jessica Sparks, Ray Gong, Randy Kamiya, Diane Howe, Ross Alexander, Paul Fogel, the Henrys, Claudia Welikson, Rick Fairbanks, Glen Palmer, Spud Jackson, Albert Schilling, Gino Postorivo, Jim Lively, Jim Anderson, the guy who created NAPRA who's name I forget, Debra Dion, The guy who published Frontline magazine, Ken Gilder, Guy Cooper, Jerry Braun, Steve Cantrell, Keith Idema, Al Iba, Nicky West, the Scherer who invented rotary dies, Fast Eddie, the first guy who wiped a hit, Dave Bell, Jim Rice, the Gardner brothers, and - did you think I would forget? - Tom Kaye and Budd Orr.

Some people have accused me of writing overly long posts, so I'lls top now.

[Got_Paint]

because I wouldn't be able to make it there I would donate money or a prize in the future.

[AGD]

I take it Rabid is Steve Davidson ( the only guy I know who remembers barrels shooting off). Lets start a new thread about this and I will sticky it. This is too far down to get the proper attention. I stuck the other thread for time being. Make sure its well after Shatnerball.

AGD

[RRfireblade]

Originally posted by AGD
I take it Rabid is Steve Davidson ( the only guy I know who remembers barrels shooting off).

You would be correct sir.

(Hey Steve,see ya Friday. ;))

Jay.

[Furby]

I've been talking with Mr. Davidson as well...I'll lend whatever support I can via publishing press releases, talking about it on the show, etc. Whatever I can do, it shall be done.

[SyntaxError]

My team would most definately play this...our old guys are always talking about the old skool days, and I was around for a while, I kinda remember stuff how it was back in 1998 lol...

and yes, I wear the old school renegade camo jersey to practice, and its great to hear the kids say "oh man what a n00b, he's wearin camo!"

[Mike Smith]

I guess I'll have to break down and buy some tiger stripe camos.... however....

I still don't know which camos I'll be getting for this year's games.... Marine dots or tiger stripe???
I have an all black Mag and play scenarios and big games.... Any suggestions?

Decisions... decisions.....

[50 cal]

The first gun I owned was a 007 without a pump. We all used pennies taped to our forefinger and thumb to cock the knob on the side without getting a huge blister!
Those were great times.
Remember the California Magnum p-balls in the 200 count box?

[rabidchihauhau]

never heard of the pennies taped to the fingers one before...

here are some more 'mods'

a small piece of emery board taped to the upper surface of your barrel for backspin

a small piece of razorblade projecting through a slot in the from of the barrel to nick the ball when it left

washers behind the main spring

electric socks to keep your 12 grams warm

cottonballs shoved down the barrel and shot out to clean a ball break