Getting fed up with the X-Mag...

[pito189]

I have an X-Mag 3.2 software. It just hasn't been doing it for me lately. I recently sent it in for the 3.2 update, among other things. I get it back and it works like a dream.

This weekend at a scrimmage the X began to skip shoots. (I would have to flip it over to manual shoot it, and then back over to E to get it to shoot again.) No reason, I changed nothing. I have no idea what it could be. I need some ideas of what to look at, what to check, anything.

Kneeling behind a bunker on the field missing eliminations, because my gun doesn't shoot won't cut it. It was the first time I have ever thought that I need another gun that will work all the time.

Please help :(

unhappy X-Mag owner.

[Digits]

loob your bolt so it slides on the powertube nicer

[pito189]

There is no shoot in E-Mode, even the solenoid doesn't click. It's like the gun is completely turned off.






Tourney this weekend, and this needs to get fixed.:(

[GT]

so it works fine in mech mode and not in E? Make sure that trigger isnt toooooo short...

[funkmunky56]

two possible options... one, your battery could be low. check that out. second, there's a possibility that, somehow, your solenoid arm on your sear assembly is "out of true"... pull your display-side grip panel off and make sure that the clevis/threaded rod/plunger assembly isn't bent in ANY way... that was the problem with mine, when it was doin the exact same thing as yours. --Funk

[pito189]

Originally posted by gtrsi
so it works fine in mech mode and not in E? Make sure that trigger isnt toooooo short...

The Trigger test mode in 3.2 works fine all the time.



Originally posted by funkmunky56
two possible options... one, your battery could be low. check that out. second, there's a possibility that, somehow, your solenoid arm on your sear assembly is "out of true"... pull your display-side grip panel off and make sure that the clevis/threaded rod/plunger assembly isn't bent in ANY way... that was the problem with mine, when it was doin the exact same thing as yours. --Funk

Battery isnt the problem. Charged it on the way to the field. I'll check the plunger assembly.

[pito189]

Looks completely straight to me.

[Strider]

Test mode or not, I had this happen once with me, and it was solved by backing the magnet out a touch.

Try it, it might work. :)

[pito189]

I will give that a try and see how that works.

[Load SM5]

Check the ground screw in your board the one holding the board in the grip towards the bottom. If it backs out slightly the board is'nt grounded and the Emag shuts down. It happend to me at Texball and the symptoms sound the same as yours. Working on and off as the screw became looser before shutting down completely.

Hope that helps.

[pito189]

Originally posted by Load SM5
Check the ground screw in your board the one holding the board in the grip towards the bottom. If it backs out slightly the board is'nt grounded and the Emag shuts down. It happend to me at Texball and the symptoms sound the same as yours. Working on and off as the screw became looser before shutting down completely.

Hope that helps.

Good call Load, that is the first thing I checked, because that was one of the problems I had to send it into AGD for. They took the anno out of the screw whole. Because it was doing the same thing. I hope I can get this piece working.


Are you playing the MSPA this weekend coming up in Atlanta?

[USAF-Flyboy with a Mag]

I had the same issue with my x. It required a mechanical fix not an electronic one. All it took to fix it was some adjusting of my level x carriers and lubing the crap out of everything.

In your case...When you say you aren't hearing the solenoid click, try airing up the gun put it in emode with safety on and then pull the trig. It makes a more audiable sound when you pull the trigger with the safety on. It could be possible that you aren't hearing the solenoid click leading you to think it's an electronics issue. If you are still not hearing it that way then I'd try checking the ground as load suggested, it could be getting an intermittent ground.

[pito189]

Alright, just shooting the gun in E with the grip off.

Starting shooting the gun slowly, gun shoots fine.

Shoot pulling faster, gun starts not shooting on some pulls. When it doesnt shoot, there is no click, but there is a very slight motion of the plunger as it jumps a tiny amount.

Now at this point if I switch it over to manual and shoot, and then switch it back to E, it will either shoot or still not shoot. It varies.

I'm at a loss

[Tobe2be]

sounds to me that your battery is dead. that happens to me when i have a dead battery

[G-Rock]

He is not the only one, mine has been doing the same thing for aout 3 months now.

Just all of a sudden not shoot, have to switch it to manual, shoot it, and then back over to eletric and it works fine for awhile and then again.

I have done all the adjusting tot he trigger that can be done, heck even backed it all the way out and it still did it. today I took my On/Off assembly out and cleaned it really well, will have to give it a try tommorrow.

Any help, like pito said, we are in the Atlanta MSPA this weekend and would like to not chunk our guns!!

chris

[pito189]

Originally posted by Tobe2be
sounds to me that your battery is dead. that happens to me when i have a dead battery

I wish it was that.

Talking to Havoc now, maybe he can figure it out.

[Kevmaster]

Originally posted by pito189
Alright, just shooting the gun in E with the grip off.

Starting shooting the gun slowly, gun shoots fine.

Shoot pulling faster, gun starts not shooting on some pulls. When it doesnt shoot, there is no click, but there is a very slight motion of the plunger as it jumps a tiny amount.

Now at this point if I switch it over to manual and shoot, and then switch it back to E, it will either shoot or still not shoot. It varies.

I'm at a loss

my PTP e-mag did much the same back in the day. I sent it to AGD and they fixed her up for it. Not exactly sure what they did, but i know it involved the sear pin (triger pin) and plunger. Sorry I can't be more of a help on that.

[oldsoldier]

Mine does the exact same thing! I am beginning to think it may be 3.2, as it seems people with this upgrade experience it. My solution was to shoot it in hybrid..granted, it isnt really a "fix"..but, I dont skip[ shots anymore. It isnt the ground screw, or the noid...

[phantomhitman]

i cannot help you either, but it seems quite a few people (around 5 or so) are having the same issues you are with their xmag. i read about a few of them in a post last week i believe. try checking the past posts back to page 3 or 4, maybe they found an answer?! good luck.

[BradPalooza]

See if it does it with the breech module removed. It may be the bolt binding up in the breech because of misalignment. Mine had that problem.
-Brad

[Bolter]

WHOA Stop ripping all the internals out of your gun.

It sounds like the eye isn't seeing the ball all the time, like you need to turn it a quarter turn. Check it. I have used paint where its fine for a bit of the day, but then I start skipping shots, and I just have to turn the eye a bit.

I always check the eye against paint at the beginningof the day.


And I always leave my battery on charge over night, a car journey is not going to cut it.

[BlackVCG]

Just for the sake of it, take the valve out and then take out the on/off assembly. You should have a black o-ring in the center and a clearish/yellow o-ring around that.

[Ghost24]

Pito turn the eye off and see if it fires right. If not, check your ground wire in the battery. I was having the same issues you were having. RobAGD put in one of his battery and it worked fine. The ground wire for the battery contact was not well gounded (connected). Rob soldered the contact and the problem was solve. Good Luck.

[pito189]

Kevmaster, I didn't start having the problem until I got it back from AGD.

Bolter, I don't ever use the eye, it's a pain in the arse to setup, and with level 10, I don't find it worth the time. Also it's pretty much worthless IMHO as it's not a break beam eye.

BlackVCG, I have all the o-rings in.

Havoc and I went through it last night, and we figured it might be the plunger length, I need to find some calipers to work with though.


I have to rustle up some calipers, and see how that goes.

[Dayspring]

Check your on/off pin assembly & orings. I found that mine tend to dry out quite a bit and they get sticky. Too much friction.

If you haven't done so, take the on/off assembly out, lube the orings inside the brass part and make sure the quad oring & white oring are nice and oiled too.

[xrancid_milkx]

I've had this same problem with my Morlocked E-Mag for quite some time now. It will work fine in Manual mode, but once I go into E it won't shoot. The shots will register, but the marker won't shoot barely any of the shots. I'll put it on burst mode of 15 shots, and it *may* shoot 2 or 3 times, but all 15 shots register.

I've checked the plunger length, and sear lengths, and have the proper o-rings, and still can't figure out why it won't work.

I just assumed it was my solenoid dying or dead, and was saving up for a AGD board replacement and solenoid, but it looks like those may not be the problem...

I'm going to go back again and re-check all the lengths.

The solenoid plunger is 3.005" right? What about everything else?

[funkmunky56]

Did you bother checking the alignment of the solenoid plunger clevis assy on the sear like I mentioned?? Seriously, if that's off at ALL, it binds on the solenoid. and, when you switch it to mech mode, it FORCES the plunger down, straightening it a lil bit, so it'll shoot for a little while again on e mode. But then , things that are off tend to get more off over time, and it starts binding again. so you gotta switch to mech mode, force it again, and start the whole process over...

it sucks. but fixing that was really satisfying. :D

[BajaBoy]

dont know if anyone said it already but i think i know the problem... when it stops shooting in E mode look at the noid, it drifts over and locks up untill you either fire it in mech or push it in yourself

[pito189]

xrancid_milkx the plunger length should be 3.008"

funkmunky56 it all appears aligned to me. There are no bends in the entire sear, plunger.. assembly.

BajaBoy, the solenoid moves a very slight amount, I'm talking maybe a 1/16 of an inch no more than that though.

[Mindflux]

Originally posted by pito189
xrancid_milkx the plunger length should be 3.008"



E-Mag:

On/Off pin: .712" w/ brass top and double o-ring top.
.725" w/ aluminum top and single o-ring top.

Trigger Rod: 2.125"

Solenoid Plunger Rod: 3.005"

Right from the Tolerance Thread in the tech forum.

[BajaBoy]

pito, take out the valve and put your finger over the back of the sear (where the on/off would hit it to reset) hold that so you finger acts as the valve and put? 150-200shots thru it.. ill bet the noid will move.

When mine moved it was only a Little bit and i didnt know what it was at first untill i squeezed the frame and heard it pop back into place

[pito189]

Originally posted by Mindflux
Solenoid Plunger Rod: 3.005"

Right from the Tolerance Thread in the tech forum.

3.008" is what Havoc told me last night.


BajaBoy what will that accomplish?

[Mindflux]

Originally posted by pito189


3.008" is what Havoc told me last night.


BajaBoy what will that accomplish?


So?

Ask him to reconfirm. Why would it be pinned up as a classic if it was misinformation unless the xmag has different specs.

[adam shannon]

Originally posted by funkmunky56
your battery could be low. check that out.

mine was doing the same thing...after i got done cursing everybody i could think to blame for the error it was just a low battery.

how old is your battery. it may be going bad or have a bad cell from faulty charging...im not up on electrical stuff like that but im sure somebody here knows how to check that out and what the optimum charging voltage is and how to make sure its regulated propperly.

[pito189]

Originally posted by Mindflux



So?

Ask him to reconfirm. Why would it be pinned up as a classic if it was misinformation unless the xmag has different specs.

So? So???? The question was asked and thats what I was told so I posted. I mean what the hell seriously. :rolleyes:

Adam, I don't have a volt meter or anything, but the battery is charged. Unless there is some sort of dead cell like you stated. Is there any other way to check it for that besides with a volt meter.

[wyn1370]

Originally posted by pito189
Is there any other way to check it for that besides with a volt meter.
you could always try using someone else's battery to see if it does anything different. Not very scientific, but it would be a quick check.

[Muzikman]

Dead cells are common in Emag/X mag batts. The nickle Metal hydride cells are VERY heat sensitive and a blown cell can happen easily.

[oldsoldier]

Muz...can you pick up the batteries at, say, radio shack? That may be a simple fix...cuz, honestly, I have this same prob...and cant for the life of me figure it out.

[pito189]

This sucks so much. If the plunger length is right, I'm going to chalk this gun up to being the gay, play with it through this last tournament, and get something that works all the time.

[Muzikman]

OS, nope, not unless you are really good at soldering and can take the pack apart. You would then have to figure out which cell is dead. Your best bet is to just buy a new pack from AGD (if they have them in). How ever if you are good at soldering, there is no reason you could not make your own packs...but they would probably cost more in the long run.

[pito189]

Ya if you buy one from AGD it's 60 bucks, that happened to my Chorded E-Mag I had before this one.


Gotta find some calipers.

[Muzikman]

The Emag battery from the AGD store is $40.00 so yeah with shipping and what not, it's probably close to $45-$50.

http://store.airgun.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=catalog.prodInfo&productID=136&categoryID=24

Now, it looks like they still have not gotten any of these beasts in...so...

I would say try someone elses battery and see if it helps. Also, you do know not to trust the light on the charger right? A full charge should take about 4 hours or so. Also when charging, go give the battery a feel, make sure it is not getting hot. It should be slightly warm to the touch, but should not be hot.

[thecavemankevin]

since when are the 60 bux, they were only 40 a few months back. So far, i have had two bad batteries (bad cells) where they look like they are putting out the right volts fresh off the charger (18v). But then put them on a gun and it says low bat and wont fire. I bought one from RobAGD at pevs and the other that came with my x when i got it.

The emag batteries from what i have heard have a tendancy to go bad after a short time (cause they were built with a bad cell). It is an unfortunate part of the gun we love.

pito, have you checked your hall sensor to make sure all the wires are secure both on the board end and on the sensor end?

[Jonesie]

Hey Pito,
I'll be up at PBA this weekend playing with Wildfire. I happen to have an extra E-Mag battery you are welcome to borrow for the day to test that. I have two E-Mags, so the extra battery is all yours for the day, bro. Also, I'd be glad to take a look at it for ya. I don't know nearly as much as Havoc, but maybe a fresh set of eyes looking at it could help?

Look forward to seeing you and G-Rock. If you bring that pack with ya, I'll have some cash on me! :D

Later ~ Dave

[BlackVCG]

Originally posted by pito189


3.008" is what Havoc told me last night.


BajaBoy what will that accomplish?

LOL.

3.008"... That's a good one.

That tolerance isn't that critical.

You can be off by +/- .010" without it affecting anything. The prescribed length is just so it's set at a point it won't create any issues. Too long and you're going to chew up the sear and too short and it's going to beat up the bottom of the on/off assembly. Put it this way, if I come across one and it's at 3.00" exactly, I won't bother adjusting it out.

Check the resistance of your solenoid. It should be ~3.0 ohms.

[RenagadeOfFunk]

If you are still unsatisfied sell it to me :p
it will only take me a 25 min drive to get it to he AGD factory :)

[pito189]

Originally posted by RenagadeOfFunkRTPcf
If you are still unsatisfied sell it to me :p
it will only take me a 25 min drive to get it to he AGD factory :)

Send me 1200 bucks and I will.


Hey Jonesie, I'll definately find you and give that battery a try. Being as mine is not the only one doing this, I don't think it's the battery, but I have to cover all the bases.

When I had my battery replaced it was $60, thanks for all the concern on the price though.

Back to the situation at hand.

[Jonesie]

No problem, man. I'll also bring my multimeter so we can check the voltage and resistance... mmm... fun with electricity! :)

[pito189]

Excellent. Hopefully I can get this thing working. I prefer to play a tournament, and be able to trust my gun.


You going to be there on Saturday?

[RenagadeOfFunk]

1200 for a flawful x...:rolleyes: :p

[USAF-Flyboy with a Mag]

If you haven't got it up and running I would suggest trying this.

Take the valve out of the gun. Remove the On/Off assembly from the valve. Remove the Yellowish/Clear O-ring and quad oring from the bottom of the hole in the valve. Drop about 3 drops of oil in there. Place the orings back into position. Use a bic inkpen cap to push the orings to the bottom, so that they are flat. Take the onoff pin out of the on/off assembly. Oil the pin..the skinner section and the fat top section. Place it back into the on off assembly. Move the pin up and down a bit to work in the lube. Place the on/off back into the valve. Assemble and gas it up.

The reason I tell you this is because I had the exact same symptoms with my xmag. It wouldn't fire in emode unless I clicked it over to manual and pulled the trigger, then it would fire a few and stop once again. Upon doing that very procedure, The problem went away. It recently came back, in which I repeated the procedure and it is now gone once again.

[Jonesie]

Originally posted by pito189
Excellent. Hopefully I can get this thing working. I prefer to play a tournament, and be able to trust my gun.


You going to be there on Saturday?

Yeah, I'll be up there sometime between 2 and 4 until whenever. I don't live too far away, so it's not a huge commute. However, I have to help my girlfriend's sorority out with some philanthropy stuff that morning, so I'm not quite sure what time I'll actually be able to get there.

I'll be sure to grab my multimeter, batteries, and toolkit when I head up there though. See what we can do to it the day BEFORE the tournament rather than the day OF the tournament! :)

[RRfireblade]

Please let us know how your making out w/ the current 'fixes',I'm curious to see how it turns out.

I "think" I know where the prob is but it's not easy to explain.It seems to have worked on 2 others so far but I'm still not sure if it's a definate 'fix'.I'm also not sure if I should try and explain it here just yet.

Intersting though.I do believe it is an Xmag issue and /gasp/ a tolerance problem.

Hope it works out for you,keep us posted.

Thanks,
Jay.

[G-Rock]

Originally posted by Jonesie
Yeah, I'll be up there sometime between 2 and 4 until whenever. I don't live too far away, so it's not a huge commute.:)

Hey man just look for us at the field, maybe come back to the hotel and work on the guns, catch dinner with us also man!!

chris

[Havoc_online]

Pito, as I said before, it could be a number of things, Let Jonesie use his stuff to check the plunger rod length, battery for 20-22v and the solenoid for 2.6-3.0 Ohms. If he has a middle or stock spring, ask him if you can use that to try out if you dont find yours, and remember to keep your input above 850.

If Jonesie can't get it running for you, send it to me and I will make it sing for you, I wont even charge you considering your situation.

[pito189]

Thanks everyone for the help, hopefully Jonesie and I can get it fixed on Saturday.


RenagadeOfFunkRTPcf you asked. :)

[Jonesie]

Originally posted by G-Rock
Hey man just look for us at the field, maybe come back to the hotel and work on the guns, catch dinner with us also man!!

chris

Sounds like a plan! I would prefer to do the work indoors. Grass has a way of hiding the screws I'm gonna drop! :)



Originally posted by Havoc_online
Let Jonesie use his stuff to check the plunger rod length, battery for 20-22v and the solenoid for 2.6-3.0 Ohms. If he has a middle or stock spring, ask him if you can use that to try out if you dont find yours, and remember to keep your input above 850.

I do have extra springs, maybe just the shortest, but enought to try to get it working.

Later ~ Jonesie

[Doobie]

I sure hope you get it working by Ultimate Madness or else our team name will take on a whole new meaning! :)

[young7786]

I have been having the exact same problems with my Emag. I'm 90% sure its a battery / charger problem though, as my battery can't hold a charge. I sent in my Emag and charger to AGD to have them inspect it last week. I should be getting it back sometime this week.

[pito189]

Doobie hopefully it will. If not, I might have to talk Trina into letting me play with the purple and black beauty.

young7786 let me know what the conclusion of that is.

[la690]

i would like to know what ever happened to this.

[G-Rock]

He traded it to some guy for a Viking!!!

chris

[pito189]

Yes, I traded it for an WAS'd 03 Half Milled Viking. Got a Conquest, Ripped Halo, and SM1 with it too. Just for my X-Mag.

I think I am in love... :D :cool:

[oldsoldier]

Too bad...I figured out my problem. It was my blade trigger. I readjusted it...no problems since.

[pito189]

Well, I didn't have a blade trigger.

Played a tournament today with the Viking, all I have to say is I am glad I switched.:D

[1stdeadeye]

I had the same issue today! I had too much oil on the bolt. :confused: Weird, but when we wiped it down, and lightly lubed the bot it worked fine.

Not giving up my X ever!!!

[Tunaman]

loob your bolt so it slides on the powertube nicer
Never Lube your bolt! Bolts should be dry! ;)

[Tunaman]

With the marker gassed up and the grip off, pull down on the c clip in the plunger a hair and see if it fires. The solenoid plunger length is not exactly set in stone. I think if you make it .005 longer your problems will go away. With the valve out and the solenoid plunger all the way down, look through the body and make sure the sear tip is below the body line. At the same time, check the trigger rod clearance behind the trigger with the selector switch in "E". It should not touch. Make sure the battery has 18v in it. Lemme know what goes on...... ;)

[LawnGnome7]

does this problem happen in just xmags, or emags too?

[G-Rock]

A guy on our team, saturday night his emag worked fine at the hotel, then saturday morning we gas it up and it wont even shoot in E or manual!! He used our backup angel.

Then we were talking to someone else at the tourney...won't mention his name, but you all know him.... and he said both his sfl and xamg did the samething ours did. He said he is about to trade both of them!!

So it looks as if the problem is across the board on the E-mags and the offshoots of it.

chris

[KayleAGD]

Many of the e-mags will screw in the clevis rod into plunger when fired, don't know the exact length but there should be about 3/16" of the screw showing. this is a very common problem when the loctite comes loose..