Deadlywind hAir trigger demo video

[nicad]

Got a little time to make a quick video of the hAir trigger over the weekend.

Video is 5Megs. MPEG 1 format (should be compatable with just about everything)
http://www.arowmic.com/dw/videos/dw.hair.trigger.video.mpg

n-joy!

ps- it is not for sale until protection is fully in place.

***UPDATES ***

4/24/04-
so far:
1) Won't be out for another 6-7 months, if all goes to perfect plan. This will probably be revised in the future, but for now it is what we are looking at.
2) We are currently in negotiations with AGD and if it all gets worked out they will be manufacturing and selling it.
3) Price has been projected by Tom to be $250-$350.
4) Will not be a "drop in mod" to existing frames. It will be an entire frame with the goods integrated into it. Word is it will probably in a frame very much like the Intelliframe.
5) It has been tested to work on RT/Xvalves. It currently does not use or require the ULT. It has not been tested on a classic valve, but *should* work-- how well I dont know.
6) There is no "waiting list" (that I know of). If there is I'm not the one keeping it. Please don't email me asking to buy one of the protypes, unless you have some 7-figures to work with. :) ;) :D


*** UPDATE 9/13/04 ***

We now have enough legal fileings in place to start moving forward with these bad boys... but there is still a kink or two in the works. There is another company (who shall remain nameless at this time) who is claiming prior and broader protection. We are in the process of getting more information from them and hopefully work it all out very soon.

In the mean time I have been quitely working on how to install everything into an I-frame, Y-frame, and the Vert frames that are out there. Once all legalities are out of the way, I hope to at least be making these myself (by hand for now) and have some available for sale before the end of the year. Negotiations are still in effect with AGD, but AT THIS POINT there is a good chance they will not be picking it up. This is subject to change. Please do not flood Tom with requests.. there are reasons for every decision. :)

I am trying to keep the price around $250 (this would include the triggerframe), and offer some sort of a tradein discount on your existing grip if you send it in.

I cant really comment more on the legals yet. I will, however, say that the "other company" is not the G-force guys with the Super-68 marker.

out!

*** UPDATE 11/01/04 ***

Yep.. been a while!

As you all probably well know, ProTeam products is the company that we have "legal issues" with.

They are claiming to own all pneumatic triggers, so we are definatly affected by this.

From a business standpoint, there are a few options we have to proceed forward-- All of them take time and some of them require lots of $$$.

I can't comment further than this, except to say that, you would have all had hAirs in your hands right now.

*** UPDATE 12/29/04 ***

official update in new thread at
http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1739471


out!

[Jack & Coke]

Sold!

...err at least when they do go one sale:D

[stondroopy]

geez know i have drool on my keyboard.that is pretty cool, watched it like 10 times already hehe:D

[Wolfen]

:eek:

I say, since I'm spending so much money with you, you should throw this in with it :D

Nah, jokin'. That is one seriously sweet trigger job and I want one when you start selling them.

P.S. - Now I know why you said time has been flying :D

[Butterfingers]

OH MY GOD! PLEASE PATENT THAT FAST I WANT!!!

Is that the ULT on/off assy or the RT assy that you are using with the Penus?

Just curious...

[frenchman309]

Originally posted by nicad
ps- it is not for sale until protection is fully in place.

Just to be sure (sorry if it's a dumb question) but what are you talking about when you say "protection?"

[Jack & Coke]

nicad, this design direction (hybrid mag) could very well save AGD from SP!

If AGD is really working on a similar concept it will be interesting to see how they compare... cuz your version is pretty dang impressive!

I would rank this with the RT-valve and LvL10 as far as important developements in the evolution and history of the Automag.

[Butterfingers]

Originally posted by frenchman309


Just to be sure (sorry if it's a dumb question) but what are you talking about when you say "protection?"

Protection from idea thieves like SP...

[edweird]

Colin... nice teaser, and well I can say its nice in person also.

quick question that might be answerable without revealing trade secrets.

Can ya do that to a Y-Grip frame? If ya dunno wanna try on mine bro?

[nicad]

I probably should have mentioned that we already have some initial stages of protection in place dating to sometime last year, but it is taking a while to get the rest of it compleated to the proper extent.

I too believe this has the capability of revolutionizing Mags.
Time will tell.....

Ed- when they do become available, vert/Y frame is a posibility. :-D

[Lord_Whoopass]

Well I would like the done on a Vert frame as soon as you release it... :D Man you gotta stop teasing us like this... Everytime you make something my Wallet just keeps getting lighter... ;) But its well worth it... Hope to see it released soon...

[Butterfingers]

Put me first on the waiting list!

Thats absolutely amazing...

Any ETA we can hope to have this thing fully protected and marketed...

[Jack & Coke]

Originally posted by Butterfingers
Put me first on the waiting list!



Dude, it's 4 am over there in NY... go to sleep!

*psst nicad, while Butters goes sleepy poo, put me in front of him on the waiting list* :D ;)

[Butterfingers]

NEVER!!! I will stay awake till this thing gets marketed... Gonna need lots of coffee!

Im gonna camp out in front of NiCad's place!

[baka]

that has got to be the fastest nonreactive mech marker to date.
Go Nicad!

Sign me up on the pre-order list imaginary or not, in succesion of posts in this thread:D

[frenchman309]

Nicad, any estimate on the cost of this?

[guysdaman]

Holy Shnikes Batman!
I WANT ONE!
go nicad go!

[kenndogg]

Colin/Travis, was this vid shoot over this weekend? If so, damn I knew I should stopped by POV sometime during the weekend.

[arowmic]

kenndogg: Yeah we were out there pretty much all day Saturday.

[shartley]

That is very nice. How does it react to a 4 inch drop test to a table or a hard set down?

If well, I can see myself getting this depending on the price.

[phantomhitman]

video is down, i wannna see it ;)

[FreakBaller12]

my God that is amazing
Must have!!!
please give us an estimated price so i can start saving!

[brijohnx]

man....put me on the list....
this list i have of stuff to buy gets longer everyday...
oh well

[bgredjeep]

Now thats why I didn't sell my Mag to pay for my new ST Bushy. I knew these were coming (from someone) and I wanted to be ready when they got here. Once I get that in my Mag I'll have 2 primary markers to choose from instead of the Mag pulling backup duty.

Yep, if you are guaging interest at all mark me on that list as well.

[Creative Mayhem]

Originally posted by nicad
I too believe this has the capability of revolutionizing Mags.
Time will tell.....

Ed- when they do become available, vert/Y frame is a posibility. :-D

HOLY CRAP NICAD!!! I WANT!!! When Rogue gets me my vert frame, its getting sent to you. *drools* You know what its getting put on ;) Now I know why my stuff is a "spare time project" hehe It's ALL good bro. You are da man!


one question for those wondering about trigger bounce... what's the input set at? If you wish to divulge that info of course.;)

*EDIT on reflection* I may get 2 more frames done... my friend will be very interested to have that one his new mag that he hasn't got yet ;), not to mention the Purple People Eater :D

So put me down for 3! (yes, I'm a greedy bastard)

[Butterfingers]

Originally posted by Creative Mayhem



So put me down for 3! (yes, I'm a greedy bastard)

Stop Hoarding all the Frames :mad:

[LudavicoSoldier]

I will also take one! Will this REQUIRE the forgrip LPR?

[Butterfingers]

Still awake... you guys think im kidding?

EDIT: Trying not to hijack this thread my sleep strike will continue in the friendly corner...

Butter's Sleep Strike. I protest waiting.

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=130485

:D

[Creative Mayhem]

Originally posted by Butterfingers


Stop Hoarding all the Frames :mad:

Who said I was hoarding all the frames? I'm going to send my frames to him :p



Originally posted by Butterfingers
Still awake... you guys think im kidding?


HAHAHAHAHA... Butters you da man!!! LOL!

*Mayhem thinks he should call nicad and put himself on the list.. Voice is bettar :p*

[sneakyhacker420]

jesus christ butters... STILL AWAKE!?

nicad - this makes ULT horribly obsolete... AND I WANT ONE ASAP :p

we might just have to call it the XLT - Xtremely Light Trigger


ps: will this work in classic RT's and/or z-grips?

[temps]

Any tests of it on a classic valve... just wondering.

[phantomhitman]

ok this sucks, i cannot see it. i canot save target as or open the link directly. helpppppppp!!!!! :D

[ShooterJM]

Oh....my.....gawd.....

I definately need one of those! :eek:

[Oddball]

That looks sweet, I would love to try it.

[lord1234]

http://www.imageshack.us/img1/8554/ipeedinmypants.JPG

[punkncat]

That is freaking awesome!
I also would like to know what this mod will price out at?
User installable?
Pre orders?

[fire1811]

wow:eek: :eek: :eek:

[Duck Hunt]

ooooooooh my god! i love nicad!!!


Sean

[Altimas]

Cant...stop....watching...must change....drawers.....

[gibby]

OOOOOOH MYYYYYY GAAAAWD!!!

That was sweeet!!! Who said you couldn't walk an Intelli?!?! I am very impressed!!! Dang!!! You got yourself another buyer whenever and if ever that comes out!

[Berner9]

looks like im getting a new mag

[tyrion2323]

Oh...my...goodness.

GET PROTECTION QUICK! Sign me up. When that sucker comes out, I'm all over it!

Question - will it be possible to send in a Logic frame and get that modification done?

Are you talking with Tom Kaye about him marketing that on his markers?

[fire1811]

few questions

do you know if this is going to work with retro valves?

and do you have ANY idea of a release date? year? month??? day???

is this a drop in or send away mod

[FSU_Paintball]

How heavy is a 2 oz pull? Does it make it identical to that of an electro, or a bit harder? I don't want a comparison to mech triggers, I'd like to know how it stacks up against electro triggers. I'm asking because that guy in the video seemed to need to walk it pretty damn hard to get it to do that.

[phantomhitman]

can someone tell me how to view this video? are you guys clicking on the link or save target as? thanks for any info.

[Altimas]

^^^ I think someone s just jealous ;)

[arsonpaintball06]

ooooooo nice :)

[tyrion2323]

FSU_Paintball,

A normal electronic trigger is in the range of 4-5 oz.

Jacob

[Gadget]

/me joins queue with credit card in hand

I'll have one of those in a gloss black intelliframe with blade trigger please....oh and a matching gloss black Dallara to go with it :)

[Butterfingers]

For those who cant see it...

While im still awake...

MIRROR!

http://www.whobroketheinterweb.com/shared/dw.hair.trigger.video.mpeg

FILE SAVE AS!

Bandwith Aint Cheap.

[felony]

so does AGD have something like this in the works?

I must say that is very impressive, and may even try and sell my emag sooner now. who is gonna want a emag when you got that... haha

dan

[robdamanii]

Any ideas on prices for this badboy?

Sold as a frame or as a whole kit for a marker?

[temps]

Originally posted by tyrion2323
FSU_Paintball,

A normal electronic trigger is in the range of 4-5 oz.

Jacob

Anyone know the pull on a stock angel, timmy, impy, emag ext.. and what is the ligthest you have been able to get on an e marker?

[phantomhitman]

lol the mirror is down too. i will wait until someone gets more bandwith or later tonight. from the sounds of it i want one too :( yes i am jealous bc i cannot see it :p

[Cryer]

This is what I miss for going to bed early...

Damn.

Colin, as soon as you start preorders, I WANT IN!
I'll sell my family if I have to (I'd rather not, but I supose if it came to that...;))

[robdamanii]

Originally posted by Cryer
This is what I miss for going to bed early...

Damn.

Colin, as soon as you start preorders, I WANT IN!
I'll sell my family if I have to (I'd rather not, but I supose if it came to that...;))

You happen to have a 14 year old on ebay so you can get this mod? Is that where that listing came from? :p

[Cryer]

Originally posted by robdamanii


You happen to have a 14 year old on ebay so you can get this mod? Is that where that listing came from? :p

...I suppose I should update that... I didnt realize: he turned 15 just recently;)

[robdamanii]

Originally posted by Cryer


...I suppose I should update that... I didnt realize: he turned 15 just recently;)

Does he do windows? Or lawns? Eat much? Smell nice?

Gotta know these things if I'm looking to buy, ya know...

;)

OT:
This is the infamous penumatic mod that was being worked on, right? This doesnt make the marker actually pneumatic operating, does it? I'm trying to figure out how it would work, and I'm not getting very far...

[ClassicMagger]

Hey:

Looks good Collin. Just as all of your work does. Let me know if you do in fact need anything for it. I doubt you do but the offer stands.

ClassicMagger

[rkjunior303]

holy sh*t batman. thats crazy.

sign me up lol

Anyone post this on PBN?

[Cryer]

Originally posted by robdamanii


Does he do windows? Or lawns? Eat much? Smell nice?

Gotta know these things if I'm looking to buy, ya know...

He can... You just need the latest software

[DementedRabbit]

Hahaha, wow! Sold!

[Cryer]

hehe I have to watch it again:p

[bunkermaster10]

That is the coolest thing I've ever seen :eek:

[Fred]

:eek:

you tease...

Me want!

---Fred

[lbonettosd]

Put me down for one of those!!! That is so freakin' sick! Good Work NiCad


BTW- Whats the approx. $? And we just need to send in our intelli's + $ ?

[yeahthatsme]

i'm impressed http://www.automags.org/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif

[Butterfingers]

Originally posted by phantomhitman
lol the mirror is down too. i will wait until someone gets more bandwith or later tonight. from the sounds of it i want one too :( yes i am jealous bc i cannot see it :p

Theres somthing wrong with your computer both sites work.

STILL UP!

[trains are bad]

I am very excited as this appears to be the first electro-like (non short strokeable) trigger for a ygrip.

[lew]

When can I get one? Now would be nice. Hurry, I can't wait. Alright, screw it. I'm comin' down there now.

[ntn4502]

Yo Colin, well since you already have my gun at your place, and I'm really good with secrets...:D

[Cyberious]

Originally posted by Butterfingers
Put me first on the waiting list!

Thats absolutely amazing...

Any ETA we can hope to have this thing fully protected and marketed...

Actually I've been bugging him to get one since I saw it at World Cup last year. Even offered to give him money to get on the Pre--Pre-Order list.

[Cyberious]

Originally posted by FSU_Paintball
How heavy is a 2 oz pull? Does it make it identical to that of an electro, or a bit harder? I don't want a comparison to mech triggers, I'd like to know how it stacks up against electro triggers. I'm asking because that guy in the video seemed to need to walk it pretty damn hard to get it to do that.

2 oz is about the weight of 2 quarter. IOW you could probably blow on it with a straw to set it off.

[Jack & Coke]

Considering how this developement is so huge for the future survival of AGD, this thread should be a sticky!

[Cryer]

Originally posted by Jack & Coke
Considering how this developement is so huge for the future survival of AGD, this thread should be a sticky!
Not only survival, but DOMINATION!

Sticky it!:cool:

[Duck Hunt]

STICKY STICKY STICKY!!!!!

Oh yeah one question...will you still be able to intellifeed your hopper?

Sean

[FSU_Paintball]

Originally posted by temps


Anyone know the pull on a stock angel, timmy, impy, emag ext.. and what is the ligthest you have been able to get on an e marker?

According to Warped, their angel triggers are "under 2 ounces"

For all I know, that could be 1.9 ounces, or it could be 0.5

Either way, if timmies and angels and the suchalike truly are around 4-5 ounces normally, I'm all about this... this is the kind of thing that needs to happen to get me back in the mag world.

Awesome backup gun... when I don't want to bring the e-cocker to the sand pit or when the weather looks bad, this would be great.

/me wants all black ULE body mag, black intelliframe, this trigger mod, X-valve, black foregrip, and my black scepter. Awesome.

[fire1811]

your right this thread should be like me after watching the video! STICKY......uhh nevermind

[Cryer]

Imagine... with the SP issue raising the price of E guns all over the market, when something like this comes along, I think there will be some sort of shift in the paintball market... (not necissarily to the point of AGD becoming a superpower, but we will be back in force)

Colin, think of it: You are the next Bob Long

[Cryer]

Originally posted by FSU_Paintball
...Awesome backup gun... when I don't want to bring the e-cocker to the sand pit or when the weather looks bad, this would be great...

hehe screw backup... I'd rip with this as my primary- Get a Deadlywind body and a deadlywind trigger...

oho-ho!

[Spartan X]

You can deffidently put me down for one! hell fast as a electro and no batteries!

[trxtr]

Does this use/accept the ULT?

thnx
trxtr

[GT]

:cool: ,

And everyone was wondering why I am bulding another mech mag hmmmmm...... just that crazy ol' GT ;)

[Cyberious]

Originally posted by trxtr
Does this use/accept the ULT?

thnx
trxtr

No, the one I saw did not use the ULT. I asked Colin about that.

[fire1811]

its going to take him 3 days to read all the comments here

[Chris42050]

DAMNIT !!!! I just sold my mag on friday. I guess I deserve it. I knew better than to let someone else have her... Karma?
They are probably touching her right now. Putting thier hands all over her body. They are probably lubing her right now so they can play with her. I never should have dumped her. She was a pistol, but she was my pistol. She just needed a little lovin.
DAMNIT !!!!

[Altimas]

Yeah and write all our names down LOL!!!!! ( My first reply to this thread was implied as I want one too and make sure you put me on the list relative to the positioning of my forst response on this thread ;))

[tonybhall]

That thing is pretty awsome. Can't wait for that to come out. Can we get some more info on it. How much $, is it a whole trigger frame or just a new on off?

Hey LeAlen, what's up man?

[yengese]

I knew it was only a matter of time before someone came up with a system like this. Its a simple engineering problem.
Good job. I think I'll need to buy a mag again.
Patents take about a year to get. You are protected once you file though. Are we going to have to wait a year or are you going to file then produce? I don't like waiting.
Smart Parts is not going to like this! HeHe!

[Altimas]

Hey Bryan! Noting much I have been a bum and been cruising the Forum all day. I'll be out at Quest all day Sat. Prolly Sunday too.

Maybe I'll cya there!

[ASDadam]

To add to the already existing huge support for this amazing product, consider me another one added to the seemingly non-existant pre-order list.

My g/f can eat some bread and water for a few weeks if its an expensive mod. So no problem here. Count me in for sure.

Amazing job, keep up the great work.

[fire1811]

if you dont give here bread or water that less time you have to save :p

[Scircal]

Wow! That looks slightly friggin' awesome! Definitely turn a backup mag to the primary marker of some people I know. I will definitely buy one. Hell, I'll put down a deposit or whatever to get on the list.

Now if someone comes up with an equally good efficiency upgrade, you'd have a mech version of an A4, Viking, Cyborg, etc. Top notch!!

[temps]

Originally posted by Cyberious


2 oz is about the weight of 2 quarter. IOW you could probably blow on it with a straw to set it off.

2 quarters eh.. time to mod my mouse and see if i can get something that will mimic a 2 oz. trigger so i can see just how light this thing is.. :D

[Dern]

So about when will we see these availiable for sale? And got anymore videos :D

oh and is this a mod you could just send your grip frame in for?

[dansim]

holy shnikes!

[Spartan X]

Well Tom did say that when they re-did the e-mag that they would get rid of the huge battery and Noid....look at this no huge battery and huge noid, infact there non at all!

[Miscue]

Very awesome. It needs one more thing though:

A roller trigger, or comb trigger with a grille setup... such that it can be raked legitimately/within rules with ease at ridiculous speeds to match the ROF of cheater electros.

IMO, this makes a fair electro undesirable. The same effect is achieved without the the additional weight and expense... and reliability issues.

[tonybhall]

Hey LeAlan,

I will be there on Sunday most of the day for Phantom Regiment Practice. My 11yr old brother will be there too. I will see you then.

I just hope I have my rail back from logic by then or I will be playing with a spyder.

[phantomhitman]

i finally watched the video. i thinked the servers had too many users at one time earlier. awesome product, i would take one as well for my back up mag.

[logamus]

Originally posted by gtrsi
:cool: ,

And everyone was wondering why I am bulding another mech mag hmmmmm...... just that crazy ol' GT ;)

your still crazy, you can just add timely to the mix too. ;)



and that might be the coolest video i have ever seen on AO. almost as great as girls gone wild.

[trevorjk]

"HOLY SWEET TITS!!!" - Loud Tim

[shadow462]

wow... there are no words...

few quick questions:

1) Will this be a trigger frame to buy that is pre-modded, or will it be more of a parts kit similar to the level ten or ULT?

2) How complicated would this be to install?

3) Is there any ballpark estimate of MSRP or release date?

4) Can I trade you one slightly used wife for one of them?

thanks!

~van

[Dubstar112]

Its been on repeat all day now.

[Tunaman]

Originally posted by Butterfingers
NEVER!!! I will stay awake till this thing gets marketed... Gonna need lots of coffee!

Im gonna camp out in front of NiCad's place!
Yea...right behind me! Buhahahahahahahahahaha. Nice Job Nicad! Mags suck! Woot! And they chop! Woot!!!!:o :D ;) :p

[dwab3000]

*looks around....kidnaps nicad...asks him for the trigger mod*
im not gonna be able to wait a year for that patent.
*dreams of that trigger put in his hands and just ripping*

so *slips nicad a 50* im first on the waiting list

maybe ill throw this in the mag ive been doing custom work on...
ha ha ha...tell me if this trigger wouldnt be awsome on this setup
omega body rail
ule
vert
psycho ballistic drop
x-valve
72/4500
and a nice poison arrow on it


nice huh with that trigger it would rock all them electro users

[Cryer]

Originally posted by gtrsi
:cool: ,

And everyone was wondering why I am bulding another mech mag hmmmmm...... just that crazy ol' GT ;)
Me too!

I got mine alll planned out!;)

[vaypourus]

I just ruined my new leather office chair!

Every online PBR user im'ed me when you posted this thread J&C.

hehe...I am as giddy as a school girl :D

[kauai_paintball]

if you want to kick SP's @$$ then you have to keep it cheap. will this work with electro trigger frames?(like the upcoming electro vert logic, etc etc...) rub it in their face. o, and by the way put me down for one, I will pAy the priceas long as it is below 100$.
Heehe, my mag setup is going to be:
Logic vert frame(hell ya!)
Karta body(hell ya!)
Hair tigger(hell ya!)
Stiffi barrel(woot!!)
lv 10 wth x valve(yee haw!)
Logic gas through grip
Reloader B(need it to keep up with trigger!)
recently purchased crossfire tank(thanks marty K.)
and, the piece de resitance: the coolest ano job you have ever seen! i will post pics when my babys' completed. muhahahahahaahahahahaahahahAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH*chok e*!

[dansim]

Originally posted by kauai_paintball
I will pAy the priceas long as it is below 100$.


if my gun could fire like that id pay up to 200, but anyway does it need a ult kit to function or is it entirely different?

[teufelhunden]

Originally posted by vaypourus
I just ruined my new leather office chair!

Every online PBR user im'ed me when you posted this thread J&C.

hehe...I am as giddy as a school girl :D

nu uh not me!! :)

[Xyxyll]

WOW! I'm impressed. I'm already looking into getting a mag again. Now this just makes me want it even more. Was going to go for just a classic, but it looks like I may go back for the 'ol X-Pro.

[MicroMiniMe]

I think my V2-YX (http://www.eos10d.com/jason/images/305_0566.jpg) wants to go home for a visit.
As long as it doesnt get a TB mod with the hAir mod. That would just be wrong on too many levels.

:eek:

[pwtzz]

I WISH I NEVER SAW THIS THREAD..

my buying spree never stopped..

WE NEED TO HEAR FROM NICAD AGAIN!!! WHEN? WHEN?

[Jack & Coke]

Originally posted by RamboPreacher of POG
so it does have a safety/manual, manual over-ride?

[Python14]

I dunno whether to run in fear and jump for joy? That seriously made my week. I will definitely buy it if/when it comes out.

[AGD]

All right, I am going to throw some water on this fire.

So if we make this and there is a huge waiting list are you going to be upset?

Are you going to tell me "If you don't get it out now, no one is going to buy it"?

If the first batch has issues, are you going to ask me what's taking so long?

How many of you are willing to overpay to get it right away and then we charge you to upgrade it with fixes later?

Will you compare it to your 'fill in the blank' electro and tell us your battery powered gizmo is still better?

When cheater boards are made legal the same way all the other cheats in paintball have evolved, will you dump this?


This is my reality, your comments?

AGD

[cphilip]

Ill prolly do all them things Tom. Or at least some of them.... but.... I will buy one. Maybe two.

[ClassicMagger]

Hey:

Mr. Kaye. As I have said before in threads and to you. I will wait, however long it takes. We are here. If it takes a month or four years I will still wait. I won't complain. Just wait. That is what needs to be done.

If it costs an arm and a leg. It will be worth it because if your name is on it. It is worth it.

Fast, Quality, Cheap. I pick two. Quality and cheap. If it costs an arm and a leg. I will still buy it. If it is quality I will buy it.

ClassicMagger

[Ov3rmind]

Simply amazing. I'd dump my Viking for one.

[shartley]

Originally posted by AGD
All right, I am going to throw some water on this fire.

So if we make this and there is a huge waiting list are you going to be upset?

Are you going to tell me "If you don't get it out now, no one it going to buy it"?

If the first batch has issues are you going to ask me what's taking so long?

How many of you are willing to overpay to get it right away and then we charge you to upgrade it with fixes later?

Will you compare it to your 'fill in the blank' electro and tell us your battery powered gizmo is still better?

When cheater boards are made legal the same way all the other cheats in paintball have evolved, will you dump this?


This is my reality, your comments?

AGD
For me….
I would not pay for anything along these lines that was not fully tested and works as it is suppose to.

I would also not be willing to overpay to get it right away.

I don’t use electronic markers, so no, I would never say my battery powered gizmo is still better.

When cheater boards are made legal I would not dump this.

Now… do I like it? Heck yes. Would I be willing to be a guinea pig and have one installed on my marker and test it as well as promote it at fields and events that I go to? Heck yes. But see my above comments.

Heck, I already push the RTPro every chance I get and show that without the LX or X-Valve it still kicks rear. This new trigger however pushes the envelope even farther.

But what confuses me is that I thought this thread was about what Deadly Wind was doing…. Not AGD.

[kauai_paintball]

*gasp* dont...care..about...price...dont...care...about.. .wait...just...care...about...getting...one...*die s*

[Riot[Z-Grip]]

In all honesty, I probably won't buy one... At least not immdediately. I like the way my mag is currently, SS Body, LX, ReTroVavle, ULT.. it's fine as-is. I am nowhere close to maxing out my mag's potential. My Impulse however, needs some sort of ACE so it doesn't kill itself, and that's where my money will go. Is my Impulse better than a 'mag with this upgrade? No. Will I talk this product up and make sure people know how great it is to have a 16bps mechanical gun that doesn't bounce, won't chop, and now has numerous body and ano options? Yes. I just won't be buying one because I don't need it.

-Riot

(Yes this is ::really:: ::really:: cool and I think it should be made, should sell a whole bunch if made Quality and Cheap. =) Also, if it will fit the Z-Grip I may further entertain the idea of buying one. ;) )

[kapaintballman]

holy hell thats sweet, good job nicad

[Load SM5]

Originally posted by tonybhall
Hey LeAlan,

I will be there on Sunday most of the day for Phantom Regiment Practice. My 11yr old brother will be there too. I will see you then.

I just hope I have my rail back from logic by then or I will be playing with a spyder.

Man I really need to make it down to meet you guys. What's an hour drive?

This trigger is exactly why I picked up a new RTP to play with. I can't wait to see it out and screw with the guys at my field.:D

[Dubstar112]

Originally posted by AGD
All right, I am going to throw some water on this fire.

So if we make this and there is a huge waiting list are you going to be upset?

Are you going to tell me "If you don't get it out now, no one it going to buy it"?

If the first batch has issues are you going to ask me what's taking so long?

How many of you are willing to overpay to get it right away and then we charge you to upgrade it with fixes later?

Will you compare it to your 'fill in the blank' electro and tell us your battery powered gizmo is still better?

When cheater boards are made legal the same way all the other cheats in paintball have evolved, will you dump this?


This is my reality, your comments?

AGD

Tom: You are incharge. I think you know the answer to many of those questions. Its obvious what you have gained by having us here at AO.

I would buy one. But until somthing is out there that works, I wont be selling my cocker. Thats not to sound snide or whatnot, I have owned a mag, warpfeed, and flatline. But to be honest, Im satisfied with the way my current set up shoots.

Instead of trying to have a factory upgrade perchance look the idea of DW making them, through a licensing agreement or somthing.

I dont recall ever seeing a beta release from many other companies(if some, not many). Is that a sign? Seems like the DW version is very well on its way. IMHO dont do a beta release. Release somthing you feel confident in.

Beta to me means "Heres our new idea, it works, but we're not 110% confident. Here you guys find the problems." Granted some problems can only be arised during normal use.

About comparing it to another electro marker. Isnt that the point of this whole thing? Thats important in determining value.

/end babble.

[NoForts4Me]

First...GREAT WORK nicad! This trigger is awesome, and I would definately like to purchase one someday (if finances permit).

But, I'll expand on what Tom sort of hit on:

When cheater boards are made legal the same way all the other cheats in paintball have evolved, will you dump this?
I think we are seeing about the maximum rate of fire in the video, since most people probably max-out at about 15-16 walking. It may be able to shoot 20 bps, but the majority of people probably can't hit that without "help" (ie: cheater boards) of some type (If I'm wrong, let me know).

Now, I have no interest in a marker with a cheater board (OK, if I had unlimited funds, I might) but I don't play tournaments and even this is over-kill where I play. But, will people who think they have to hit 20+ bps be interested in this...such as the majority of tournament players and people that purchase on hype?

I LOVE it, but will this bring new people into the wonderful world of the 'Mag?

[doubletap]

I think most of AO would wait to buy one as long as it is tested and working as said. I would be willing to wait, only because I have a few markers, two being mags(classic and X-Valve ULE'd). So while I wait I have other options to use while the wait is on. As far as being on a waiting list, I think most will as long as it is not a six month wait period. I think that is too long. Two months max seems more reasonable but that's me.

As far as the general paintball community, I don't think they will wait to get a marker. Impulse(not the marker) purchasing is a powerful marketing/behavior, if people have money, they will spend it and spend it now, I know I do.

D

[felony]

kaye responds like he has something in the works .. hmmm.

get it right, get it right, and get it right. AGD is perfection, make it perfect. get a video of it up, demonstrate it's capabilites to everyone, not just here @ AO. Most of the guys here know your product is good. Bring it to a trade show and show the damn thing off.

I am in the market for a new gun around summer time (lookin to sell my emag and look at something new). Maybe this is my new toy or maybe a bushy is, who knows.

DO IT RIGHT

[jayloo]

Originally posted by cphilip
Ill prolly do all them things Tom. Or at least some of them.... but.... I will buy one. Maybe two.

My thought exactly. Sign me up.

[JT2002]

HOLY *****!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :D

[nippinout]

I don't know how this whole arrangement is, like how is AGD involved?

But, don't be afraid to beta test.

The LVL10 and ULT betas did very well.


Mags have got to have the most insane upgrade path now.

[Python14]

If and when it ever becomes available for beta, and I have the correct equipment for testing it...I will most definitely pay whatever I need to pay to be one of the first people to have it around here(aside from ChucktheMAGiain, who probably already has it).

You can count on that Mr. Kaye, Python14 is willing to pay and wait for AGD:)

[Butterfingers]

Tom, alot of people probably wont pay an inflated price but people WILL pay if it is done right.

Look at how sucessful the L-10 was...

I for one am willing to miss a few more days of sleep for somthing that is tested and manufactured to good ol AGD standards.

;)

[bob87]

I can't wait to get this everybody at the field will be like where’s the battery go

[evan123]

I will so buy this as long as its not 500. Omg its so secks.

Price?

Date?

Need ULT?

[JEDI]

Originally posted by AGD
All right, I am going to throw some water on this fire.

So if we make this and there is a huge waiting list are you going to be upset?

Are you going to tell me "If you don't get it out now, no one is going to buy it"?

If the first batch has issues, are you going to ask me what's taking so long?

How many of you are willing to overpay to get it right away and then we charge you to upgrade it with fixes later?

Will you compare it to your 'fill in the blank' electro and tell us your battery powered gizmo is still better?

When cheater boards are made legal the same way all the other cheats in paintball have evolved, will you dump this?


This is my reality, your comments?

AGD

1) Well, does a huge wait mean flawless performance? (if so, wait is OK)
2) That may be the case, but I would disregard that. If it works, people will buy it.
3) Yes, of course we're going to ask whats taking so long. Put up with the whining, we're still gonna buy it. We have to understand/put up with R&D and you have to understand/put up with human nature.
4) Whoa whoa whoa... why would we overpay to get it sooner, and then pay more? Are you saying sooner, knowing its defective? Thats not very comforting. I'd pay a cheaper "as is" cost, and then gladly pay more should you refine it in the future.
5)Sure, its unfair to compare apples and oranges. It probably will happen, but why is this a concern? A good product will stand on its own...no?
6) I think there will always be a niche for Mechanical/really fast mechanical markers. I've got a backup mech cocker thats dying to be Ebladed, but I just wont do it... I've got a ULE retro I've threatened to sell a billion times too, that I just cant do.

Hope this helps, just trying to be honest.

[kauai_paintball]

ok, Ill make a tally of people who would and wouldent buy one, so far:
Would buy one:49
Wouldent buy one:3
Depends on price:5
Positive feedback: 100%

[Spartan X]

Heck, I think I would pay $1,000 for a hair trigger on a fully pimped mag. you know, ULE body, X-valve, intell trigger or Y or 90*, very asa with gas threw or reg ( like in the movie) Oh and a nice stock barrel.

[Xyxyll]

hmm... TK or nicad, bring a hAir trigger modded mag to the Boys and Girls club game! I'd love to give it a spin.

As for my opinions on the matter:

I do not have a mag anymore but plan on getting another (miss my RTP too much). I would like to see this marketed. I have a feeling that the SP empire will have some strong competition. :D Now, I do not personally like buying on impulse. I would rather like to see it fully tested and free of possible problems before offered. AGD = quality. What kind of price range are we looking here? When I get myself another X-Pro, I'll be very interested in a hAir kit.

[Ov3rmind]

If this does become a reality, I WILL buy a mech Mag (that's not even close to a "maybe"). It's just about as close to perfection as a paintball gun can get. I think I would pay $300 at the most.

[JT2002]

god. now i gotta figure how to add a sweet rtpX all ule and this to my collection with my empire timmy, grrrrrrrrrr, more $$$$$$$$$$$ :D :D :D :D :D :D

[baka]

I for one say that if you guys need time, take it. I would much rather pay for a product that has a AGD stamp of approval and quality.

also think about the children...i mean poor people.

[TAW]

I would wait and buy one for only one good reason. Were I live and play it is wet all the time. So I would want my mechanical mag to perform like an electro paint slinging gizmo with the AGD quality and performance, I for one, have come to respect from your mechanical markers.

[Chojin Man]

I would rather wait than to have it released with problems. As long as the wait time is under 8-12 months. The wait time would also help me to save up for this upgrade.

[Jonesie]

Originally posted by AGD
All right, I am going to throw some water on this fire.

1. So if we make this and there is a huge waiting list are you going to be upset?

2. Are you going to tell me "If you don't get it out now, no one is going to buy it"?

3. If the first batch has issues, are you going to ask me what's taking so long?

4. How many of you are willing to overpay to get it right away and then we charge you to upgrade it with fixes later?

5. Will you compare it to your 'fill in the blank' electro and tell us your battery powered gizmo is still better?

6. When cheater boards are made legal the same way all the other cheats in paintball have evolved, will you dump this?


7. This is my reality, your comments?

AGD

1. Nope. I can be a patient person.
2. Nope. I can be a patient person.
3. Nope. I can be a patient person.

4. This bothers me. If I pay for it once, why should I have to pay for it again? Like the Super Bolt. You gave a credit to those who bought it when the LX came out. I'd be willing to pay a bit more, similar to the situation. But not a "We did it wrong the first time, sorry. Pay us and we'll fix it."

5. Eh, I'd have to see how it performs in comparison to the E/X-Mags I have. However, I am always up for an all mech tourny gun!

6. I'm confused on this. If cheater boards are made illegal, how will it affect this? This is all mech, right? How will the cheater board ban affect an all mech setup? (Unless this mechanically ramps the BPS...)

7. Is this the work of DeadlyWind and nicad or AGD? I am definitly interested if it is tournament legal! I would be willing to build myself a all-mech mag AND keep my two X-Mags!

[baka]

he said when they make cheater boards legal/ if they do! Then the mod would be slower then those cheaters, but i still think its fast enough.

[E r y k]

wow thats sick... maybe ill resume building a mag.

[UltimatePaintballer]

i will buy one when they go on sale!!! some one get me a good deal so i can own a mag

[PaintballSmurf13]

well im the idiot that posted on it below a minute ago because i didnt notice this thread. first reaction: OOOPPSS!! SORRY!
well anywho, I think it would be killer to get a mag that could keep up fine with timmys and angels and such and not run on batteries. I would DEFINATELY buy a new mag (since I have a classic) because of this trigger.
-Ryan F.

[nippinout]

I would like to know is how easy is it to chuff.

[JT2002]

Originally posted by nippinout
I would like to know is how easy is it to chuff.
alls i can say is if u can chuff a .01" trigger, than your either really F***** up, or your just godlike... :D :D :D ;) :p :rolleyes: :eek: :D :D

[tyrion2323]

I'm guessing that AGD is probably working with NICAD now that he's seen the appeal of this project. Imagine just having to send in your marker, and then it comes back and you've got an ***-ripping mech!

Jacob

[ASDadam]

To answer your questions Mr. Kaye

I would not be upset if the finished product is as good as it looks

I wouldn't say that because i am not a marketing genius.

First batches almost always have issues, so i'd ask only if those issues had been resolved not why its taking so long.

I'm the typical person who acts first and regrets waiting later, so yes i'd overpay first and ask ?'s later.

No electro to compare to, never wanted one.

Read above.

Like many have said, and i'm sure you already have your elect few, but i'd be glad to test this on my Ule'd Xvalved mag. It'd be a great honor.

Thanks..

[Digits]

wow.. How long are you thinking untill these are released.. If there's any sort of waiting list im forsure on it.. For now I will contemplate ways you mad this and come up with my own plan..

Now I have to buy an intelliframe.. Thanks alot..

[danheneise]

ok i'll be the second , um or third person to ask this but have any tests been performed on a classic valve, i really don't want to dish out $300 for an xvalve and then some more $ for this mod, i like my classic valve enough to stay with it. if this mod works on a classic valve with a minimal or no amount of wear and tear on the bolt i WILL definatly buy it, and probably put $100 towards it if necessary.

Dan Heneise

[felony]

timeout.

what is the cost of this thing gonan be?

i dont know a whole lot about development and productions costs but lets think about this.

if it is a stand alone frame (meaning you have to buy a new frame).. that is like 100 to compare with the i frame. then what else, maybe a gadget "like" the ult, another 50, plus some other nifty tools in the grip, another 50.

$200 sounds reasonable unless there is something i am missing.

if you aim for that price you have a winner. if you want to make to sell a mech frame that shoots slower then "cheater" boards and costs the same, I dont know about that.

I know development and production cost alot, but make it for a good price if you want to sell. who besides us @ AO will want to buy a 3-400 mech mag frame that shoots 16 or so BPS when they can get a dragun tes to shoot the same speed?

i dont know, it is just my opinion, i will probably cave in and get one anyway, but I do think it should be @ a good price!

dan

[NJPaint]

AGD:

What kinds of issues are you worried about? I for one would happily buy one of these frames to be a part of what I percieve as a revolution in mechanical design, even if I must risk some 'issues'.

[Intellimag]

Just thought Id say, I cant live any longer without this hairtrigger, lol.

[AGD]

Cost wise you guys have to understand that your putting an LPR, three way and piston actuator (plus plumbing) on the base marker. Heck thats half a cocker!

Its not going to be like an I-frame upgrade it has to be more.

AGD

[baka]

i don't think you guys are gonna have to buy any new frames, b/c Nicad stated before that it could be performed on diff. frames, including a sweet 90*frame, and other frames. get ready to spank all!:D

[rdb123]

Originally posted by AGD
Cost wise you guys have to understand that your putting an LPR, three way and piston actuator (plus plumbing) on the base marker. Heck thats half a cocker!

Its not going to be like an I-frame upgrade it has to be more.

AGD

Tom, let me tell you I'd be willing to sell my Shocktech Intimidator just to be able to use this hAir trigger'd mag.

[paintballfreak1527]

dude that is so awesome:D when are these goin to be out i am so goin to buy one

[Intellimag]

Tom, I totally ready to spend that much on this. Im just worried about it making the gun to high of maitinence. lol

:D

[Cryer]

Originally posted by rdb123


Tom, let me tell you I'd be willing to sell my Shocktech Intimidator just to be able to use this hAir trigger'd mag.

I just sold my Emag...;) As soon as the $ comes in, I'm throwing it at a deadlywind RTpro

[ej_y4]

tom im willing to wait. that is going to be an awsome upgrade. forget electros

[temps]

What are the chances of this mod working with a classic valve mag?

[sitting_duck]

Originally posted by AGD
Cost wise you guys have to understand that your putting an LPR, three way and piston actuator (plus plumbing) on the base marker. Heck thats half a cocker!

Its not going to be like an I-frame upgrade it has to be more.

AGD

i personally wouldn't have a problem with that. hell, i spent $400 just to have a worrblade on my 'cocker. one thing i have quickly learned is that the majority of electros refuse to be as reliable as a mech. that's why i recently bought an 04 vert 'cocker. i was originally planning on getting the RT Custom but the deal for the cocker was too good to pass up. now, i have never had a problem with my e-cocker (other than with black shelled paint) and i don't anticipate that i will. regardless, i am still planning on getting a 'mag in the very near future. the possibility of a mech mag that can fire as fast as my e-cocker just pushes me to get one that much sooner.

[Chris]

That hair trigger is amazing. I would buy one right now, problems or not. Heck, back in the day we bought 'cockers knowing full well that they had their share of problems. Didn't stop me from fixing it and continuing my day. I would imagine that the hair trigger is something simillar.

To address some of Toms comments, nothing is perfect, no matter how much you test something, it will end up breaking down for somebody at some point. No matter if Nicad, or AGD or somebody else releases this, or a simillar trigger, it will have problems at some point.

I dont think that anybody wants to overpay for something, but there are those people who must have everything first. They will line up just to say, "I have a mech. gun that has a shorter/lighter trigger than your electro" I dont blame them, thats a pretty cool party trick.

If it were to be released as a Beta, I would expect to get a discount on the final version. This is assuming that the Beta product could be converted into the final version, be that by some tuning, or swaping a few parts. If moving up from the Beta meant that none of the original parts could be re-used, then the full price would be reasonable to expect.

If this trigger is released before anybody else makes one, than people will be lining up to purchase it. If you wait too long, somebody else will have one out for less money, that may not work as well...but most people would not notice/care. It would be cheap and have the same end result...although at the cost of quality and reliability.

It is human nature to brag about what you have, no matter what it is. You will always have someone stating, as if it were gospel, how much better their Electrospleentzapper LCD is than any mechanical gun. It's a fact of life, deal with it. Somebody will always be better than you, and many people will say that they are.

In life there are those who cheat to get by, and those who know how to keep it honest. Call me crazy, but I am not about to pick up a gun with a cheater board, just to get those extra 2bps. I know that I can go and hold my own with a pump, and it doesn't matter what the other team is using. I do not need to hide behind a wall of paint. This mentality may not be that of the vast majority of players, but for those "Old School" players, most think along these lines. Who knows, maybe it will be cool to be honest once again...but thats doubtful.

All I can say, is that whomever comes out with a product first, will have a huge advantage over the competition. Hopefully, this frame could be adapted to work on other markers. That would get the word out, and possibly help with the swaying of opinions on mech. guns.

[GT]

Originally posted by AGD
Cost wise you guys have to understand that your putting an LPR, three way and piston actuator (plus plumbing) on the base marker. Heck thats half a cocker!

Its not going to be like an I-frame upgrade it has to be more.

AGD

My guess, and this is pure guess I have no ties with AGD or Deadly Wind, but I am willing to bet this will be ATLEAST a 200-250 dollar upgrade. So keep that in mind AO it aint gonna be cheap.

AGD,
I am all mech all the time so if you build it I wiil buy it, HOWEVER, all hoses need to be internal. It looks as if Nicad has some internal routing for the reg through the dalara...

[dj89]

i need to looking in bp talk more offin wow i need one put me up for one to

you are going to need to get a bout 100 people to finish all of these orders

[rkjunior303]

Originally posted by AGD
Cost wise you guys have to understand that your putting an LPR, three way and piston actuator (plus plumbing) on the base marker. Heck thats half a cocker!

Its not going to be like an I-frame upgrade it has to be more.

AGD

After reading this and noticing it was shooting at 750psi, does that mean since there is an LPR it will shoot the same regardless if we have a preset or an adjustable tank?

[Digits]

Originally posted by rkjunior303


After reading this and noticing it was shooting at 750psi, does that mean since there is an LPR it will shoot the same regardless if we have a preset or an adjustable tank?

I believe the LPR is in the trigger frame which regulates and then gives some air to the three way which when pressed actives the piston actuator to pull the sear (pure guess lol)

EDIT : wait I think the LPR gives air to the 3 way and when the 3 way is pressed it opens up and releases the regulated air to the piston actuator to pull the sear.. lol

[rkjunior303]

I know nothing about cocker pneumatics so it's all greek to me :) I'm just wondering if this is running at 750psi, what if we have a preset that is running at say 850 or something?

[GT]

Originally posted by Digits


I believe the LPR is in the trigger frame which regulates and then gives some air to the three way which when pressed actives the piston actuator to pull the sear (pure guess lol)

Follow the hoses guys. I dont want to guess anymore and steal anyones thunder if and when it comes to production.

[Digits]

Originally posted by rkjunior303
I know nothing about cocker pneumatics so it's all greek to me :) I'm just wondering if this is running at 750psi, what if we have a preset that is running at say 850 or something?

It should.. Because the LPR regulates the air pressure for the pneumatics..

[ScatterPlot]

Wow... that is truly awesome. I DEFINATELY want 1. Make that 2. Or a million.

[314159]

Originally posted by AGD
Cost wise you guys have to understand that your putting an LPR, three way and piston actuator (plus plumbing) on the base marker. Heck thats half a cocker!

Its not going to be like an I-frame upgrade it has to be more.

AGD

Sell an expensive beta version while people still have their tax returns. ;)

[baka]

Originally posted by baka
also think about the children...i mean poor people.

[Rope a Dope]

Originally posted by AGD
Cost wise you guys have to understand that your putting an LPR, three way and piston actuator (plus plumbing) on the base marker. Heck thats half a cocker!

Its not going to be like an I-frame upgrade it has to be more.

AGD

You're talking to people that pay $100+ for honed pipes.

[Dern]

If this setup can just add on to an existing mag ( eg switch a trigger frame) and it costs under 300$ i'd surely buy it. I know that if it was going to replace my grip frame or something I would just sell the grip frame since I'd be getting a new one, saving money, similar to the retro trade in idea, except on a personal scale.

[baka]

i really hope it dosen't cost 200+ dollars for this mod, then those extra bps won't be worth it, to me. Cause i'm sure some of you guys would pay that much.

[fire1811]

i wouldnt hold your breath then baka

R@D cost a lot of money
and this is ranked right up there with level 10

worth it to me
just imagine the money you will save on batteries

and the hassle you will save by not charging your gun

oh man its sooooo worth it

[Digits]

Well you guys, look at it this way..

Hyperframes cost 350..

The CoolHand frame is estimated at 300-350

The Rogue frame, i'm guessing will be somewhere in the vecinity..

The bottom half of an e-mag is something like 700..

So 200-300 for this isn't to bad imo..

[baka]

yeh thats true, but 300+ c'mon. and where not talken electronics, so why wouldn't between 100-200 be fair? AGD isn't as small of a operation as Coolhand and Rogue, so there production costs could be lower, which could make the cost of the mod lower imo.

[QUINCYMASSGUY]

:eek: ............ are you KIDDING ME?

I heard about this but that video just earned Nicad some major bonus points. I am sure this thing will be expensive due to the parts, and I would be very interested in hearing about efficiency, but quite frankly if it isn't a problematic item to own (tuning, etc) it's got to rank up there with one of the top PBall innovations in the last decade. Good work man!

[baka]

but 300+ dollars. like i said it was my opinion, so will find out how much it will cost in the future.

So if someone else bought this and someone else looked at how it worked, do you think it would be easy to do yourself, or would these be custom parts to fit in the frames?j/w

[Chris]

Grip frame ~ $100
LPR ~ $50
3-way ~ $30
Ram ~ $30

Thats $210 for parts alone...plus labor and profit...$250-300 would be a pretty fair price.

[armyboot]

Well a RT Custom with ULE body and y/intelli is right around $500 dollars. So a cost of 2-300, 250 being ideal, wouldn't be outrageous at all. I for one would definately shell out $750 dollars for a hair triggered mag.

However, once the cost goes above that it might just be cheaper to buy a cheater electro.

[baka]

i thought he said he could put it in existing gripframes, so no need to add gripframe, which would make it around 110 and w/ l/p added it might be 150-200 at most according to your pricing.

[Duck Hunt]

Mr Kaye.

Your Automag is a tight, tiny gun which weighs alot less than most guns out there. You can basically shoot it from BEHIND the bunker. When it comes down to it, any somewhat tech-savy person can tune an Automag, with all these cheater board guns, tinkering with them seem alot more intensive than your Automag.

You can't chop balls with your Mag, no eyes, no sensors. If people didn't just dismiss Mags out of ignorance they'd see that it would be a whole lot easier owning a Mag.

I personally would like a mechanical gun, that can fire this FAST, that WON'T CHOP BALLS and that is LIGHT and COMPACT. I don't want to have to deal with eyes, sensors, magnets or on board computers. If my marker is going to have all that, it had damn well better whipe my *** for me =)

I am going to buy a RT ULE in the future. Then the next thing I buy besides a warp will be THIS MOD. Be it from Nicad, or AGD.


Sean

[gremlin75]

To be honest I have never been a mag person. But after seeing this thing I am already priceing stuff to see how much it woult be to build a mag with this on it.

later
gremlin

[frenchman309]

I can't stop watching that video. This thing is pimp

[FSU_Paintball]

I know you can't let us know the details, but can you tell me this (so I know which mag to buy if I purchase one in anticipation of this mod)?

Is there a particular trigger that we need to use? Like, do we need the ULE frame, and a ULT on/off? Or do we need to leave the retro kick in there, and will it work with any frame?

[Kevmaster]

this would be reason enough for me to build a custom mechanical mag i've been telling myself i'd build for over a year now.

Happy? If this worked reasonably well, even with some quirks (as in updates would be made periodically, and could install them mysefl) I would find the money to do this tomorrow

[edweird]

Hrrm do I hear Mr Glen Palmer eagerly waiting for thsi to release to sell some Palmer LPR's?

[Butterfingers]

I for one would love to be able to use Palmer LPR's

They are the best BAR NONE!

[kauai_paintball]

OK, well First , I am absolutely 100% for this, AGD lost the battle to Sp, but not the war This is. exactly the thing that can, and probably will put AGD back on top. Who needs a revamped electro(even if it dose kick a**) whan you can get a newly designed gun by AGD that not only is tournament legal, but can do 16 bps. many people would be willing to pay $700-$800 for that kind of gun. imagine this:
The "AGD all star"
Comes stock with:
Sex ( ULE or deadlywind body of choice)
extreme Power (hAir trigger)
the most S2S consistancy( x valve)
accuracy (CF barrel kit)(make it so they dont need an aftermarket barrel)
no mess ( lv 10 bolt makes 0 chops)
Care free(no battery to die or recharge)
light ( 0.2 trigger pull)(ighter than most other guns)
ergonomic( y frame or logic vert angle style frame STOCK)
low maintenance (shoot oil through it once or twice a month)
simple (the automag design is much easier to master then autocockers and many other guns, in fact the only two i can think of simpler is the viper m1 and the tippmann 98)
muhaahah. agd would quickly be back on top,(just make sure to file the patent FIRST)
and if for som reason the thing donsent sell (impossible) you can still file the patent, and then sell the instructions to custom build it to Ao'ers for a small fee (like 5-50$)

[baka]

Agd didn't lose to SP. SP patent covered micro switch guns, and x/EMags fire with an HES magnet.

[shartley]

Originally posted by kauai_paintball


I know this, but the patent prevented poor mr kaye from making any more e/x mags. this dosent need electonics. or micro switches.
This is NOT true. Please go read the REAL reasons why AGD is not making them any more. SP is not preventing AGD from doing anything.

[yaddatrance]

I personally would pay a premium if I didn't have to use
any batteries while receiving a level of performance
equivalent to an electro.

My preferred target price for the frame would be under
$400. If it was any more, everyone would laugh at me
and call me names, but I'd still buy it. My only
requirement is that it not be a 45 frame... A vertical
or Y-frame is essential, my wrists would thank you
for it.

If it was here now, I'd pay now. In fact, if it was
here next month, I'd pay now.

[Gadget]

So if we make this and there is a huge waiting list are you going to be upset?
Yes, but I can wait.

Are you going to tell me "If you don't get it out now, no one is going to buy it"?
Nope, I can wait.

If the first batch has issues, are you going to ask me what's taking so long?
I'd rather wait longer for the first batch and have fewer issues.

How many of you are willing to overpay to get it right away and then we charge you to upgrade it with fixes later?
As above.

Will you compare it to your 'fill in the blank' electro and tell us your battery powered gizmo is still better?
If it works and is reliable, then nope.

When cheater boards are made legal the same way all the other cheats in paintball have evolved, will you dump this?
When cheater boards are made legal I'll be dumping paintball.

[Butterfingers]

Originally posted by AGD
All right, I am going to throw some water on this fire.

So if we make this and there is a huge waiting list are you going to be upset?

Well people are always going to be upset. Alot of people are impatient. Its just somthing every business has to deal with when producing products in high demand.

On the manufacturer side its all about finding machine shops and reliable outsourcees that can produce what they promise consistently, reliably, and with good quality.

And most importantly ON TIME!!! and ON SCHEDULE!!!

It would help also if they werent halfway across the world. Either that or tool up for in house production.


Originally posted by AGD
Are you going to tell me "If you don't get it out now, no one is going to buy it"?

See thats the thing people are impatient. The ability for a product to be successful in the market place has to do with timing as well as innovation. There will be a market int he future but its best to strike while the iron is hot.


Originally posted by AGD
If the first batch has issues, are you going to ask me what's taking so long?

AGAIN people are impatient. However If you give them a realistic date of when they can expect it alot of people are ABLE to make decisions. People also feel better about waiting since they know when they expect to get the product. Setting a date also hinges on the manufacturer being able to deiliver on that date. It has to be realistic for BOTH parties. If people ask why its taking so long simply tell them its not ready yet. I rather have all the issues hammered out before the final product.


Originally posted by AGD
How many of you are willing to overpay to get it right away and then we charge you to upgrade it with fixes later?

Many are, some arent. Depends on how badly they want it.


Originally posted by AGD
Will you compare it to your 'fill in the blank' electro and tell us your battery powered gizmo is still better?

Some will, It all depends on the performance. Reality is reality. If it dosent perform better than product X people will see. If it does we will recognize that it does. From what I see in the vid it definatley outperforms the majority of electros out there now.


Originally posted by AGD
When cheater boards are made legal the same way all the other cheats in paintball have evolved, will you dump this?

When cheater boards become legal Ill crank the pressure up on my RT and lay waste to all that approach me.



Originally posted by AGD
This is my reality, your comments?

AGD

These are my comments, does it alter your reality?

[tonybhall]

Ok, I am totaly lost here.

I watched the video and am very impressed. THen I read the thread and am confused.

First, what is all this talk of turning my precious mag into a cocker? I didn't see anything that looked like cocker parts on the mag in the video.

Second, I thought this was being done by Deadly Wind, but then there are post by AGD (Tom) sounding like he's doing it. Are they working together or is he doing one on his own?

THird, is this going to be a whole new gun or just a mod. If it's just a mod, is it a whole new trigger frame or just a new on/off like the ULT?

OK, now my head hurts. Sorry if I missed anything in the thread but I am lost here. HELP!!!!

Bryan

[bgredjeep]

It uses pnematics to fire the on/off. Same effect as pulling the trigger on a cocker. The trigger actuates a 3-way which fires a ram that in this case presses the on/off and releases the sear.

That sound about right?

[shartley]

Originally posted by tonybhall
Second, I thought this was being done by Deadly Wind, but then there are post by AGD (Tom) sounding like he's doing it. Are they working together or is he doing one on his own?

I asked the very same thing, but no answer. I for one WANT to know. Is this thread about Deadly Wind and what they are doing, or is it about what AGD AND Deadly Wind is doing, OR is it Deadly Wind’s thread being hijacked by AGD? I am not making a judgment call on whatever it is, I would just like to know.

[brijohnx]

tony...

i believe the frame uses cocker pneumatics inside the grip frame to achieve the short and light pull....that's where all the cocker talk is coming from.

as for whether nicad or agd is doing this....i'm also kinda lost. Maybe they're partnering to take over the world.

[Tracker]

Originally posted by Rope a Dope


You're talking to people that pay $100+ for honed pipes.

hey they got threads on em... ummm precision cut threads.. yeah thats the ticket

Tracker

[Gadget]

It uses pneumatics, but not cocker parts - these are custom designed for this application.

From other posts I thought the AGD/Deadlywind situation was:

Nicad had shown Tom a prototype, Tom was impressed but didn't want to go down the LPR route and so was working on a similar-but-different design himself.

Now it looks more as if Tom is leaning towards working with Nicad or licensing the tech?

Could Tom or Colin clear this area up?

[PzYcO]

wow that looks really nice, id like to tell you id sell my emag for it... but i just wouldnt i like it too much heh o well :) If i get the money ill just build another mag, so.. take all the time you want mr. kaye :)

[LudavicoSoldier]

I can just see Nicad sitting back in his office chair doing this:

http://www.nscollegeprep.cps.k12.il.us/depts/science/brodgers/main_files/dr.evil.jpg

To the tune of MWAHAHHAHAHAHAHA!!!

[fire1811]

"for one hundred dollars.......wait three hundred dollars muahahahahahaha"



:p

[ASDadam]

Well Mr. Kaye, it seems to a great extent your questions and fears have been answered with so far great responses. All there is now, is your willingness to produce this awesome product and AO's and everyone elses willingness to buy(which i expect won't be a problem).

I'm here for the long haul so i'll sit back, relax and wait for you to produce this thing as i'm sure most of AO will do most willingly.

[Jack & Coke]

The thought of a "waiting list" only sucks when you know it take forever to get anything built. Even as time went on, the wait for the x-mag increased due to manufacturing delays and goof ups.

If the X-Mag where produced with the same out-the-door efficiency as the Timmy, DM4, Angel, etc., instead of the slow pokes of AGDE, people wouldn't be upset about a "waiting-list".

[fire1811]

i personally think they should do a prepay waiting list that way people dont just SAY they will buy this they will or they loose money. although i dont really think this will be a problem with this mod

[LudavicoSoldier]

Originally posted by fire1811
i personally think they should do a prepay waiting list that way people dont just SAY they will buy this they will or they loose money. although i dont really think this will be a problem with this mod

That would be nice, BUT, if there are/were any delays (X-Mag?) people would throw a tantrum. You know its true. "You have had my money for bla bla bla months and I am STILL waiting". My opinion is do it right, or don't do it at all. I have full confidence in AGD/TK doing it right, as i'm sure they have learned a few things from the notorious X-Mag waiting list.

[Cyberious]

Originally posted by AGD
All right, I am going to throw some water on this fire.

This is my reality, your comments?

AGD


So if we make this and there is a huge waiting list are you going to be upset? [/QUOTE]

I have to imagine that it will have a faster turnover than the X-Mag since there are no electronics involved. Either way though. I have been on this waiting list since last October at World Cup when I first saw it. I have asked Colin for a status 2 or 3 times since then but haven't made a pest out of myself.

Are you going to tell me "If you don't get it out now, no one is going to buy it"?[/QUOTE]

I've been trying to get Colin to sell me one even under a Non Disclosure Agreement since World Cup. I'll give you a deposit TODAY for one! How's that for something that isn't even in production and hasn't passed the patent stage yet.

If the first batch has issues, are you going to ask me what's taking so long? [/QUOTE]

I won't ask but as with any exciting event there will be curiosity. Although I must admit that when you were producing X-Mags and were posting progress pictures that was really cool.

How many of you are willing to overpay to get it right away and then we charge you to upgrade it with fixes later? [/QUOTE]

I am. I did this with my HALO and still continue to do it. I do this with my computer and it doesn't bother me. I paid almost 1500 bucks to get my X-Mag and didn't care. So I don't have an issue with this. As I've told Colin I am willing to take the prototype. At World Cup I'd have given him 1000 bucks on the spot if I thought he'd have sold it to me. To me 1000 bucks for a mech marker is pricey but I'd still do it.

Will you compare it to your 'fill in the blank' electro and tell us your battery powered gizmo is still better?[/QUOTE]

As much as I love it I will retire my X-Mag and E-Mags for this marker. I would love to be able to not have to worry about the battery in my marker. I want a mechanical MAG i.e. Airgun Designs Product (not a cocker or anything else). The neat thing about this is you could do weird versions similar to what Bob Long does with the Timmy using the slug body and a little creativity.

When cheater boards are made legal the same way all the other cheats in paintball have evolved, will you dump this? [/QUOTE]

Nope. I don't want to send anyone to the hospital. I think cheater boards will go away as soon as some kid at a recball field gets hospitalized due to one. It only takes one attorney to change things.

I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is. So when can I call you or the Office Lady or Jon with my deposit information?

[Thordic]

I think I might pass for a couple reasons.

Cost vs. Benefit. Its already not too hard to hit 15-16 BPS with just the ULT. Now you are talking about another $300 to hit 16-18 bps? I don't think you'll see anyone getting higher than 18 bps out of a mech trigger. $300 for MAYBE 2bps is a lot, it seems.

Maintenance. I own my mag because its a rock. I don't have to tune it, time it, hell, I don't even have to clean it, and it'll still work like a champ. But now a 3-way and an LPR? If I wanted all those gadgets I'd go buy a cocker. Are we going to have to time our mags now?

I'm sorry, I mean, the video has a lot of "wow power", and I guess if you are playing in tournaments where your mag is getting DQd due to bounce you should care, but I don't really see how this is worth the money to the average joe.

Your average mag user doesnt want to tinker with his mag, he doesn't care about RT being illegal, and in all honesty he'll prolly never hit 16+ bps anyway.

This is a mod that will prolly be popular with high-level players, such as tourney ballers, and maybe AGD can break back into that market now, but I don't know how well this will sell with AGD's current market. (AO is NOT really representative of AGDs market, we have a disproportionately high number of must-buy-the-new-toy freaks and tourney players)

[fire1811]

i will own one of these reguardless of cost...well unless its just crazy. but i do play tourneys and practice everyweekend so to me it would be worth it.

and the price are just wags(wild *** guess's) since no one really knows

[baka]

Originally posted by Thordic
I think I might pass for a couple reasons.

Cost vs. Benefit. Its already not too hard to hit 15-16 BPS with just the ULT. Now you are talking about another $300 to hit 16-18 bps? I don't think you'll see anyone getting higher than 18 bps out of a mech trigger. $300 for MAYBE 2bps is a lot, it seems.

Maintenance. I own my mag because its a rock. I don't have to tune it, time it, hell, I don't even have to clean it, and it'll still work like a champ. But now a 3-way and an LPR? If I wanted all those gadgets I'd go buy a cocker. Are we going to have to time our mags now?

I'm sorry, I mean, the video has a lot of "wow power", and I guess if you are playing in tournaments where your mag is getting DQd due to bounce you should care, but I don't really see how this is worth the money to the average joe.

Your average mag user doesnt want to tinker with his mag, he doesn't care about RT being illegal, and in all honesty he'll prolly never hit 16+ bps anyway.

This is a mod that will prolly be popular with high-level players, such as tourney ballers, and maybe AGD can break back into that market now, but I don't know how well this will sell with AGD's current market. (AO is NOT really representative of AGDs market, we have a disproportionately high number of must-buy-the-new-toy freaks and tourney players)

I agree here, but if you don't have ULT kit or a x-valve(dbl o-ringed valve), i think this would be a nice mod for those of us that still use old school retro-valves.

And Nicad said i believe on the first page that he can put it in most frames, so need to buy new frames. Which will hopefully cut the cost to around 150 o 200 at most.

[Jack & Coke]

A. current ULT design = non-walkable trigger + frequent chuff chuff

B. Nicad's hAir Trigger = walkable trigger + no chuff

B is better.

[trains are bad]

Word.

[pwtzz]

2 days seems like forever!

[baka]

Originally posted by trains are bad
Word.
So thats how you got all those posts.:D

[armyboot]

As long as this mod keeps the basic nature of the mag (i.e. being a reliable rock w/ out having to tinker) mostly in tact it will sell.

[nicad]

hope I can answer a few questions--

-The hAir trigger has been, to date, completely Deadlywind's work.

-AGD is interested. We (Deadlywind) would be fools not to work with them in getting this out as an available product for mags.

-Tom's posts have been so far strictly "what if" scenarios so that he/AGD can maybe answer some questions/concerns they may have about considering going forward with us about it.

-yes protection can take a long time. To me, on this product, proper protection holds a high priority. It is too important to have someone or some other company just take it away.

-As it has been mentioned already, this gripframe uses pneumatics. This does NOT make it an autococker. I only used one part which an autococker uses, but that same part is also use on 99% of all electros as well. EVERY paintball marker utilizes pneumatics at some level.

-There are no timing issues.

-This prototype does not use the ULT kit. I have not yet tested it with the ULT-- there is possibility the trigger pull could go down even lighter. But as someone said: "2oz is already in the stupid range".

-It will probably be an entire triggerframe to bolt on. At one time I had hoped to make it as a drop in mod to existing triggerframes, but that is pretty much impossible.

-many many many questions about price. It would be smart to keep it AT or BELOW the price of electro upgrades. Is that possible? I don't know. I would be very happy it could be done though.

hope this helps some...

out!

[fire1811]

thanks for the update
can i get mine tomorrow??? :p

[Cryer]

Originally posted by nicad
...-There are no timing issues...

That was my main concern...

[Python14]

So for most intents and purposes this can be done to intelliframes(as demonstated), Y-frames, Z-frames, Logic Vert frames, etc?

Does it have any major effect on efficiency?

[Cryer]

Oh, Colin-

Question:

Can users adjust pull length/weight? Easily?

Just curious, as I like my pull a little longer than most.

Python-


-It will probably be an entire triggerframe to bolt on. At one time I had hoped to make it as a drop in mod to existing triggerframes, but that is pretty much impossible

[QUINCYMASSGUY]

Hopefully I'm not throwing water on Nicad's fire with this, but if Punisher Customs produced a very similar product a while back, would that be considered prior art and completely prevent Nicad for patenting the idea so basically if it gets popular, any company could produce it with just minor mods to keep some originality? I have no intention of doing it myself, and most AGD fans would prefer to go with an AGD-approved item, but it seems a concern that could exist if someone like SP decided to produce a low-quality but lower price replica to push you out of business with it. Since alot of people are cringing at the price (though the price is justified) that could be potentially damaging. Hopefully you have a gameplan in mind to prevent all that.

[Jack & Coke]

Timing issues are mostly for two-stage triggers (e.g. cockers) right? This mod looks like the only thing the trigger is used for is to actuate the special 3-way Nicad made.

[Gadget]

Originally posted by QUINCYMASSGUY
Hopefully I'm not throwing water on Nicad's fire with this, but if Punisher Customs produced a very similar product a while back, would that be considered prior art and completely prevent Nicad for patenting the idea

I wouldn't have thought so. I'm guessing that what nicad is patenting isn't the concept of using pneumatics to trip the sear (which has been done by a few people before), but rather the custom pneumatics that he's designed which allow the ridiculously light 'walkable' trigger. It looks revolutionary to me.

nicad - If you've already applied for a patent, doesn't that mean you're protected already....even if it hasn't been granted yet?

Glad to hear that this doesn't use the ULT. ULT is a great bit of inventiveness, but is yet another thing (alongside L10) which needs to be tuned - I like the idea of keeping things simple.

[sitting_duck]

if Nicad and TK agree to produce this as a joint effort, is this something that will eventually be added to the RT Custom? for example could one choose this option insted of the intelliframe and the ULT kit? or will it be sold as an add-on only, much like a race frame for cockers (with the exception of the Race HB)?

[ScatterPlot]

All you guys with the cost discussion- what you say may be true for someone doing business from their home, who buys all the parts just like everyone else does. However, if AGD made this, how much do you think it would cost? Production wise, I'd say you could be safe with 70 for the intelliframe, and I'd guess that's higher that what it really is (I'm including labor in this). 3-ways are WAY less than $30 if you don't get the "Paintball-approved" kind. I'd guess $10 max. Same with the ram, say $15. The regulator is probably the most expensive part, at probably a max of like $30. It doesn't have to be super-consistent, since all it does is move a ram, and not have S2S consistency. All that is like what, $155? To build one of these, by itself? Buying in bulk would drop it even lower than that. I would probably guess a $200 maximum or so, frame and everything like that included. I would also guess that if you had your existing frame retrofitted, if theyre even going to do that, to knock off something like $60 or so. Now don't get me wrong here, I REALLY want one of these triggers and would probably end up paying $300 for one if that's what it ended up being, but I don't think it will be that much. Just trying to give some hope to the community :)

[baka]

Originally posted by Nicad: many many many questions about price. It would be smart to keep it AT or BELOW the price of electro upgrades. Is that possible? I don't know. I would be very happy it could be done though.

hope this helps some... out![/B]


hope is what i'm hanging on. I also hope that this mod could be retro fitted to a 90* frame even though you say it is immpossible now.

[Dryden]

That's very cool, but somehow, I think the only time I'll ever get to see one of those is when I'm laying in the fetal position at the other end of that thing.

[trains are bad]

I hope it's doable in a ygrip or else it's useless to me. The ygrip is 3/4 of the reason I have a mag at all.

[yaddatrance]

Originally posted by bertmcmahan
All you guys with the cost discussion- what you say may
be true for someone doing business from their home, who
buys all the parts just like everyone else does. However,
if AGD made this [...] Just trying to give some hope to the
community :)

I have to say, from my experience with manufacturing
system boards, if AGD doesn't choose to roll this out
across all their markers, for all intensive purposes,
they would get the same price for components as a small
shop. They'd have to buy at least 100,000 units before
true economies of scale apply. 10,000 units is where most
companies just start to talk to you. Plus you're just
talking parts AFTER they engineered it, plus they
need to keep a rainy day fund in case they all need to
be recalled/fixed, etc...

Don't be surprised if it's more than $300 and AGD
decides to use it as the base of their next big mag.

[hardr0ck68]

So if we make this and there is a huge waiting list are you going to be upset? [/QUOTE]

Yes, honestly nothing is more annoying then spending money and having to wait months to have something to show for it....

Are you going to tell me "If you don't get it out now, no one is going to buy it"?[/QUOTE]

No, but DO NOT release anything offical until you are ready to sell the first run, let other people "leak" stuff from time to time, to keep intrest. The first time i hear anything offical about this should be after an AM-Open or Mardi Gras Open i should read on warpig that AGD's long roumored frame is out.

If the first batch has issues, are you going to ask me what's taking so long? [/QUOTE]

Give the first 10 assembled to your tourny teams, and have them beat the crap outta it...if it works well for them with a handful os sand in it its ready for release!

How many of you are willing to overpay to get it right away and then we charge you to upgrade it with fixes later? [/QUOTE]

it worked for SP on every gun they ever released! WDP has done it a time or two... just dont admit the issue, fix it on the "second generation" and sell an "upgrade" for the first one that "increases efficentacy" or "increases consistancy" or "reduceses trigger stick" or whatever odd peoblem the "first generation" developes.

Will you compare it to your 'fill in the blank' electro and tell us your battery powered gizmo is still better?[/QUOTE]

Yeah....some people will say that. I personally will be happy. ESPACALLY if you release slightly different modles each year and an upgrade kit that say, drops the pull to 1oz. Why? Cause i want more gizmos on my marker than the guy next to me in the chron station!

When cheater boards are made legal the same way all the other cheats in paintball have evolved, will you dump this? [/QUOTE]

Maybe, but if a all mechanical league evolves this WILL be the only gun to use...all other teams shootin cockers or what have you wont be doing so because there gun is faster, but cause they are paid to...you will own that league. If cheater guns are made legal and AGD hopes to compete in that league they will need to make a cheater gun...thats just the long and short of that.

[hardr0ck68]

P.S. AGD DO NOT retrofit old frames that you have already sold, you would just end up costing yourself more money than its worth. After you get some kids beat old I-Frame, machined it added the parts and set it all up the time+shipping+unanoes bits would just make the kid whine about it and you guys sacerfice profit. I know its an AGD tradition to retrofit existing products...but just pretend it cant be done with this one!!

[dj89]

i'll send my logic frame in for testing as long as it comes back in one peace and i can get the trigger i'll pay for it too
LOL I WISH

[Creative Mayhem]

Basically stated... I'm in canada, we have to wait for everything anyways... :p I just dont LIKE to wait.

I would pay for this but not some exorbant amount.

[GSKRAP]

Is this gonna work with classic valve??

[Chojin Man]

Originally posted by nicad
many many many questions about price. It would be smart to keep it AT or BELOW the price of electro upgrades. Is that possible? I don't know. I would be very happy it could be done though.

The price of an electro upgrade is getting into my personal max amount that I would be willing to pay. Below IMO would be better. Of course that may or may not be possible with all of the hardware that you have to install for each one.

[tony3]

I think that you should have an option of sending it in to get it installed, or you could get intellis straight from agd and also sell it as a complete bolt on frame for the already non intelliframe owners.

[the larch]

Just found thread, sees video....reads thread...starts looking at things around house he can sell to buy this.
Hopes wife doesn't divorce him.

Tom, please make this. Used to play with automags in the early 90's bought one of the first shockers, just came back to mags because of the company behind them. I will buy this from you.

[Brophog]

I'm thoroughly unimpressed.

Its quite fast dont get me wrong. However, you might as well just use a garden hose with pink paint at that rate....

If they ever crack down on triggers like they should, this will fall under the same jurisdiction.

I do have to give you credit on the engineering though. Excellent work there. I just dont feel like it needs to be in a paintball marker.

[trevorjk]

SIR KAYE

i beleive my first wow impression of holy sweet tits was enough to say wow i want...

now the only problem i do see with this mod is that it will cost upwards 300$ but i would buy it :) and maybe a wait but do you seriously think it would be a 6 month wait like it was for the xmag? if so then i would still wait but in all honestness how long of a wait do you think you would have for a product like this? i would only guess maybe 3 weeks wich isnt to bad cuase out of everyone that posted here im guessing only 50 would actually buy it... only cuase of money issues though but thats just my thoughts

[kauai_paintball]

if they ever crack down on triggers like they should, tthis would fall under the same jurisdiction[evil face]Not true, because this trigger is fully mechanical non blowback, completely tournament legal, dosent even touch the envelope, while may other guns push it.[/evil face]