Consumer Quiz ON Future Projects From HFD (Sorry AGD for using AO as testing grounds)

[OysterBoy]

Sorry for using AO as our testing gorunds :p Last time, I swear.

1) If a gun were made, single bored, not a ripoff of a mag and NOT the Spyder design listed in another forum, with effective, working back spin (range and accuracy), would you feel inclined to buy it?
1 -NO
2 -Doubtful
3 -Maybe
4 -Almost Definatley
5 -Absolutely

2) If said gun were affordably priced, but only offered in raw and black, would it still interest you?
1 to 5

3) If said gun HAD THE OPTION of using a second source of air (whether ir be a 12 gram or small c02 tank) to use the backspin effect would you still be interested?
1 to 5

Once again, sorry if this is getting to be a nuisance, and if this is in the wrong forum move it if you want.

Alex Hnatiuk,
Head First Designs

[Curly]

1) 2
2) 2
3) 1

[OysterBoy]

(lol)


Thanks for your answers, although they are puzzling.

Thank you none the less,
HFD

[Curly]

Not trying to sound mean or anything, but the backspin idea has been done before and it never proved to be very effective. Finding a place for another air source would be a pain in the *** also. Maybe this would be a good gun for the scenario market. I am not a scenario or recball player so I gave you my opinion.

[OysterBoy]

Once again, thanks, and the opinions youve shared are in no way negative. I'll try to give information on an 'asked' basis, so if you would like to know about it just ask.

The design we are toying with (prototype begins soon) is to have a system similar to what is being used by company's such as Rohm&Haas (Automotive Coating company). What they use when cleaning their paint guns, they use a 'booster' system, so that when the cleaning material is shot through, it has enough force to continue out. How does this apply to paintball? Well, if a similar method is used, we can create backspin. The method will be as follows; before your 'longball' shot, hold in the LB valve on the 12 gram 'feeder' and fire, release the LB Valve as soon after to conserve air.

We don't think having a 12 gram on board will be too much of a hassle, but, thats what these surveys are for, right?

-HFD

[yaddatrance]

Backspin creates some "mad bounce"... The reason they
fell out of favor is that you could broadside sheets
of plywood and watch the balls come right back at you.
Any effective spin would cause the balls to glance off
the target, even when you hit it dead on. I'd concentrate
on reliability of the parent marker before hunting down
gimmicks like backspin.

In terms of making money, it's all in the marketting...
The crux of the money is all the "newbs" who buys all
the hype since he has no experience to judge from.
Witness the recent hammerhead thread et al.

If you get a good marketting partner, you'll do fine,
even if it's ANS level gimmicky...

[TheTramp]

I think the problem is the limitation of your choises.

1) It sounds interesting but not "Almost Definatley" so 3.5
2) That's how most of my guns are anyway so 3.5-4
3) Cool idea but I'd have to see if it was practical so 3

[OysterBoy]

Well right now it is all theoretical until later this spring when we begin on a working prototype.

The main thing I should reiterate about the first question is, if an EFFECTIVE back spin were produced.

Heres a 'teaser' showing roughly the size and proportion.

http://members.rogers.com/oystermallet/gun%20exterior.jpg

Note, I meant to say Main Air Input, not Main ASA ;)

-HFD

P.S. The choices dont have to mean 'absoultey', etc, its just to give you an idea of the scale. Either use #/5 or #/10, but tell us which you mean (a 4 looks bad on the 10 scale but not on the 5 scale)

[WARPED1]

No
one
one.

[TheTramp]

Originally posted by OysterBoy

The main thing I should reiterate about the first question is, if an EFFECTIVE back spin were produced.


Hey, all debaiting the likely hood of this aside, if you had a tested working product (no WAS type hype here! ;) ) then my answers go up to solid 4's.

[OysterBoy]

That is our goal, if we can't make this thing work, and work WELL, we are just going to forget about it. The worst thing we could do is to become hypocritical; we are against guns marketed on pure hype with low quality, although of course we will have to push our product, but quality will be our main priority.

-HFD

[tyrion2323]

1. Too many backspin products have turned out to be wack. It's not worth gambling money on a new one.
1.See above.
1.No, because this would add even more complication to an already complicated marker.

Just being honest - nothing against you.

[OysterBoy]

No offense taken, really, but one thing is no matter what score, it would be helpful if you said why, and maybe added something you'd like to see incorporated into it.

-HFD

[yaddatrance]

I guess I forgot to answer your questions.


1: 3 (Maybe) All of the repleis of 1's are really just
3's... if you actually made it then people would buy
it... I'd say the recharge rate (and hence effective
fire rate) is another important factor. As I mentioned
before, the backspin is just a gimmick which you can
add to any marker, your method is just a new way to
achieving that. I would be *more* likely to buy it
if it had a properly sized bore with NO backspin.
I've used the flatline and galactic Z and was impressed
with the range, not so impressed with its actual
usefulness.

2: 5 (Sure) If the colors bothered me, I'd anno it
myself... In fact, this would add to *my* personal
attraction to it as I'd be guaranteed a unique marker.
Uniqueness counts.

3: 1 (No way) If you're going to do it, run a line from
your on/off! There's no way I'd be hunting down a
12 gram before a match, much less adding a second tank.
It really kills the reliability portion.

I'd say look at what the Nova guys did and don't copy their
business plan :)

[Fred]

1, 2, 1

[OysterBoy]

Originally posted by yaddatrance
I'd say look at what the Nova guys did and don't copy their
business plan :) [/B]

Lol that last bit made me laugh :)

As for the answers to number 3, as players we understand it could get annoying. You could link it from your tank / on/off but the problem with that is the efficiency of the tank/gun, also the recharge would be slower. A 12 gram should last you, in theory, 50 shots or so, as the valve we have setup is designed to JUST let in a small amount. In light of this, I think it would be best to have the 12 gram as an OPTION, rather then a requirement, and have a line linking to the valve from the Main ASA (A macroline 'splitter' connection perhaps?).

Once again, thanks for the responses, especially to those who gave reasons for their ratings.

-HFD

[OysterBoy]

Also;

if an option to remove the valve system (via a switch inside of the grip) that would leave the valve open (illegal, but fun :) ) and to be used with a warp, Halo or Q-loader tog ive an instant XBPS (however fast each of the hoppers feed) would you either buy one, or like to see it in action?

(Sorry for the run-on sentence, I kind of got into a rant)

-HFD

[tony3]

1, 1, 1

I have never felt like I have a gun that is out of range, considering an average speedball field is 150 ft. or so

[68magOwner]

3
4
2
just dont think backspin would help THAT much

also, lemme clarify, will you only have backspin if you push the lil button every shot? if so, i wouldnt be interested at all. :(

[-=Squid=-]

Based on the designs you have shared with me, no. The trigger pull will be like trying to move a bolt on a pneumatic gun forward (timmy, viking, impulse etc..) A LOT of design flaws that you havent worked out, and from what I see, there wont be any easy way around a 10 pound trigger pull.

[OysterBoy]

lol dude, talk to me on MSN again, Ive got a completely new design which gives a light pull but no chance of 'Blow Gunning'.

Oh, and about the backspin button, you can just hold it in, that, or we could maybe have a switch for turining on and off, but a button seems more efficient.

[tjmpaintball06]

4,5,5 I LOVE THE CONCEPT OF BACKSPIN! If you actually got it to work i would definitly buy it. I only like my guns black anyways.

[OysterBoy]

Wow, that last post seemed a little OVERLY positive lol.

Once again, we thank you for your input, as soon as we begin on the prototype you (Automags.Org) will get the first look.

Thanks again,
-HFD

[-=Squid=-]

Catch me on MSN sometimes in the evening... I want to see your new designs.

[Glickman]

1) 3
2) 4
3) 5


that would be cool, but should only be as an option..

[OysterBoy]

what would be cool if it were an option?

If your reffering to the backspin feature, its totally optional as to whether or not you want to hold the valve system open :p It wouldnt cost more, although if things pick up, and we get at least 15 sold, we will have it as an option and if you choose no backspin, it will be cheaper.

[OysterBoy]

The overall rating average is 2.4 so far, and Im seeing mixed reactions, so right now we'll just continue with the product, unless we see some serious negativity from the 'market'.

[MayAMonkeyBeYourPinata]

no, 2, 1

[OysterBoy]

The purpose of these surveys is to gather information and it would help us make a better product.

[Glickman]

Originally posted by OysterBoy
what would be cool if it were an option?

If your reffering to the backspin feature, its totally optional as to whether or not you want to hold the valve system open :p It wouldnt cost more, although if things pick up, and we get at least 15 sold, we will have it as an option and if you choose no backspin, it will be cheaper.
heh yea, srry bout that, i a few slowly becomming rare 4 ounce tanks, and that would fit pretty nicely.

but patent it before SP does :)

[OysterBoy]

They dont have my idea yet so they cant :p

but yea, we WILL patent it, and if someone makes a copy legal action will not be taken; its just to make sure that its unpatentable by SP or other :)

[RT pRo AuToMaG]

If you could make an EFFICIENT gun with backspin that was fast and didn't have many problems, I may buy. Currently I use a fully upgraded (well close to fully upgraded) Matrix. If you can top that out, you have my buisness.

[OysterBoy]

Well, topping a matrix is a little too optimistic at this point but it will be one of the best markers available for its planned price (Cost + 100 CDN). An advantage is, the recoil is in the palm of your hand, literally, so accuracy shouldnt suffer.

[punkncat]

1)I would have to say maybe.If it were quick and produced accurate shots with the backspin.
2) Black just like it should be.Fine with me so a 5 here.
3)not just no , this rates less than 1.In the first segment you say a different design that produces backspin.Why would I want to add more weight and more parts to break to achieve what the design is already supposed to have.
Here you make the product sound too complicated and prone to buggyness.I lost intrest at this point.

[OysterBoy]

I should have linked 2 and 3 a little better, what Im saying is, this new design features a backspin feature, which you use my turning the valve system on / off.

[tjmpaintball06]

Instead of having to press the valve every time, why not put a dipswitch that depresses the backspin button so that you can turn the backspin on and off with the flip of a switch.

[OysterBoy]

Yea thats what I said a little earlier lol

A switch is probably best.

[tjmpaintball06]

heh, sorry, i got lazy and didn't read the whole post again before i replied, you said this gun will only be like 100 canadian, THATS AWESOME, that price can't be beat, plus i love the concept of backspin, i would put a z-body on my mag but im too cheap to spend 250 on a body that doesn't look all that great, anyways keep me posted. i want one

my AIM is tjmpaintball88
e-mail [email protected]

[OysterBoy]

No no no, lol.


Its the COST to build and make, plus 100 (small profit).

Hope you havent been inconvenienced...