Level 10 Bolt still chops...pls help

[darrickws]

OK, after 2 hours of searching the "official level 10 problems" thread, I am still clueless! Level 10 shoots without leaks but when I put a plastic pen in the feed and pull trigger, WOW!!! hits and holds it with tremendous force (and obviously leaks air)! It's all I can do to get the pen out.

Here is my setup:

Classic Mag w/ high output HPA tank
2.0 carrier with oring down and white washer under it
2 shims
smallest spring
Blue Bolt bumper

I have tried:
1 shim...no diff
3 shims... no diff
2.5 carrier....leaks out front
middle spring...same problem, plus trigger sticks every
10th or so shot, must push on bolt to reset.

Please give me some suggestions on fixing.

[Snertz]

What velocity is it shooting? Try going down to a 1.5 carrier, and readjust your velocity so it shoots consistently again.

[CaliMagFan]

sounds like the 2 screws that hold your marker togerther are tightened down at different rates... make sure they're exerting about the same amount of force on the frame/rail/valve/body combo... if you fire the maker and hold the trigger, what happens?... does it keep trying to shoot, or does fire and go silent?.... some more details would help...
-kyro

[abunkerer]

lower you velocity & use the bigger spring. the larger springs are softer on paint.

[darrickws]

Shoots just fine, nice sweet trigger pull like when I had the level 7 installed. No leaks when trigger pulled. Screws seem to be same tightness.

As for velocity, I dont know yet. Doesnt seem to fast, but when i turn it up, it just seems to increase the force of the bolt comming forward. Then I put middle spring in, gun wouldnt shoot and when I tried to turn up velocity, leaked out of back. So, I put a brand new Reg Piston in and now velecity needed for the middle spring is attainable, but didnt solve the force of the bolt comming forward, and trigger stuck every 10th pull until I push the bolt back with my finger.

My other mag shoots the level 10 flawlessly with the same setup as this!

[darrickws]

Someone has to know :~)

[Snertz]

Umm, whens the last time you lubed it? Try putting a few drops in the line, then running the middle spring..

[the electrician]

you followed the detailed lvl 10 instrucions carefully?

how many shims are you using?

how tight is the carrier o-ring on the bolt shaft?

you don't know what it is chronoing at, you are testing it with a pin and it doesn't reset, how do you know it chops paint? have you put paint through it?

you really need to chrono it before you ask people to diagnose a problem that you don't know you have.

are you using co2 or air? the reason I ask is if you are using air, you can use a buna-n o-ring in the lvl 10 instead of the hard white o-ring. it'll help the bolt move easier, without adding force.

[darrickws]

Called AGD... they explained that the diameter of the pen could be too small so the bolt travels far enough without resistance to "tigger" the antichop. Was told I need to try it with a paintball and tape to see if it truely chops.

I was using the pen because I read a suggestion on the thread on this site to use the plastic squeegee to test the "chop". Pen was same size as squeegee, and when the bolt hit with such force, I figured there was no way it wouldnt chop paint! So I will go home for lunch and try a paintball with tape to dangle it half way.

Thanks for the suggestions...I have tried both the diff spring sizes, carrier sizes (till it leaked), and 1-3 shims without any change. I hope it is just cause I was a idiot and didnt use a paintball to test (there was no way I was sticking my finger in there). I will also chrono.

[the electrician]

you were putting the pen in from the top? through the feed?

when they suggest using a squeegie, I believe they mean in from the front, where the barrel is, or should be.

put it about a 1/4" , maybe a little less, from the face of the bolt and fire the gun. it should bounce off with little force and reset promptly.

if you really want your level 10 to work well, follow the instruction precisely. when you get to adding shims, just keep adding shims until it leaks, then back off one shim.
this will help it to reset promptly.

go back to your orignial spring, just like the instructions say.

if you are using air instead of CO2, then you can go to the hardware store and get a soft black o-ring to match the one in your carrier (5/16" OD and 3/16" ID I beleive). this will seal with less friction, letting the bolt move easier wothout adding force to the ball. you'll have to start over with a new carrier, and use the one that just seals with the new black o-ring. that's ONLY if you are using compressed air!

good luck.

[darrickws]

I was an idiot.... Using a paintball it does not chop it!!! BUT...the bolt sticks on the paintball! 1 out of 3 times it reset as it is supposed to, but the other 2 it stuck on the ball, and leaked air untill I pushed the ball all the way in.

I tried to put a 4th shim in, but then it started leaking down the barrel. Went back to 3 shims.

So, doesnt chop, but wont reset...what now?

Thanks

[darrickws]

Hand held chrono (how accurate?)...

Shots:

290
296
306
289

Still a bit too large a range using HPA isnt it?

[darrickws]

...

[the electrician]

consistent velocity has more to do with the paint than the fact that your using hpa instead of co2.

in the lvl10 instructions, it says the bolt should just start to wor before the velocity you want. those velocities seem too high. at what velocity does it the bolt start to work? in other words, if you use a bit stiffer spring now, that the bolt won't work until right before it gives you the velocities you want, this will make it easier on paint AND, more force to push the bolt back to reset it.

3 shims, anymore and it leaks? it should reset properly. what spring are you using with these high velocity rates?

you do know it explains all this in the lvl10 online instrucions, you have read them, haven't you?

[darrickws]

I have red the instuctions and have installed level 10 on 2 other mags that work perfect! Just this one is having problems. I am using the original smaller spring and it works from 245 fps to over 300 (bolt doesnt chop, but does lock on the paintball without resetting). The middle (cut) spring works as well, but trigger/bolt sticks every 10 shots or so. I have also tried the carrier above and below th 2.0 carrier. I guess I havent tried the 4th shim with the middle spring, maybe that will not leak like it did on the small spring.

Thanks.

[abunkerer]

I agree with an earlier post (calimagfan)It sounds like something is out of allignment, maybe try your setup in someone elses mag frame.

[darrickws]

Will swap with my level 10 minimag, and see what happens.

[BlackVCG]

Try adjusting the field strip screw torque. If you usually just hand tighten it, try fully tightening it with a field strip screw or vice versa.

If the mainbody/barrel alignment is off, this can cause a problem with the bolt sticking.

Also, there is a chance the bolt wasn't manufactured properly, so try a different bolt and see if it stops on the paint or not.

[darrickws]

Well looks like it ended up being the front screw! My other 2 mags with level 10s has small washers under the frame screw, this one didnt . I added a o-ring as a washer and now it works great!

THANKS!!!!!!

[CaliMagFan]

kudos!.... those pesky frame screws.... this is what AO is all about...

-kyro

further problems? consult the link in my sig.