Air America Tech Support

[Zumina]

I finally got to use the two regs Air America completely rebuilt for me today. Much to my chagrin, BOTH still creep! This is rather frustrating considering there was a note in the box saying "Both flow and maintain pressure perfectly".

Has anyone had any similar expieriences? I'm somewhat reluctant to send my them in AGAIN, but vigilante/messiah rebuild kits are hard to come by...

[Shykicker]

HAVE I? Please read my brief (heh) discourse on the issue:

http://www.paintballforum.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=55620

[magman007]

dude, im sory, but that was one of the best, yet funniest reads i have seen in a long time. Very well done

[Shykicker]

Glad y'liked it! :D

[Zumina]

After reading your strenuos composition, I don't think I have much to complain about. I also feel somewhat dirty considering I highly reccomend AA products. Which is rather odd as out of the 5 regs and 2 tanks of their manufacture I've owned, only 1 of the tanks lacked any problems.

[slushee]

sadly, I also did at one point reccommend AA as a good company. When I originally bought a used Raptor 68ci 3k tank back in 1998, I sent it in for a complete servicing. They said someone had drilled out the safties, and they wanted to charge me $40 for a new reg housing.

I asked them if there was another option, they managed to give me a cosmetically blemished reg body for over 1/2 off .. which made me quite obviously happy.. They even shipped it back to me over the xmas holiday.

So many years go by. I shipped the tank back to them a few months ago for a faulty reg seat. I recieved the tank back with a faulty reg seat. I was pizzed. After calling them and realizing how incompetent they have become, I ordered and recieved 6 reg seats for the price of a small sedan. I now work on it myself or take it to a local airsmith.

.... AA is a horrible company ... unfortunatly it seems all of the competant airsmiths at the company have either been deported or fired and replaced by morons.

...

[Albinonewt]

Tha's a great story. It makes me giggle

[WARPED1]

I thoroughly enjoyed that little story!

[tony3]

That story was classic haha.

[lew]

I shall put that harrowing epic on my list of favorite reads.:)

[Gunga]

Well, I for one have never had anything but great experiences when dealing with Air America.

I had a Raptor Rex and now own an Armageddon. No problems with either system at all. A few of my friends also have AA systems and none of them have had any problems with their air systems or with AA tech support/repair.

[lord1234]

i gotta say good things for these guys. AA is the cat's bottom! I have had nothing but good dealings with AA.

[Shykicker]

In all fairness, though, AA is the ONLY company I frequently hear of sending back faulty tanks and equipment, pretending they're fixed. The standing hallmark seems to indicate that either they don't know what they're doing, or that some days they just don't want to bother with your tank. I'm not honestly sure which would be worse.

It seems to be pretty hit and miss, but having it happen three times in a row has convinced me that there is something seriously wrong with these people, and that they will be getting no more money from me. If you have a working and unblemished tank of thiers, all the power to you, man. All the same, I'd keep that limited lifetime warranty next to the john incase you run out of toilet paper. That's about the most you're going to get out of it.

[paint magnet]

Great post Shytkicker :D


It really pisses me off that companies claim to be "patriotic" and have little American flags on their stuff, and then you read the label and it's made in Vietnam :mad: (or in your case by illegal immigrants :D) )

[Muzikman]

I got my first AA tank back in 97. Since then I have had a few other AA systems and regulators. I have never had a problem with them except for time. I send my AA HPA systems to AA to get hydroed and all three times it took a month to get back. Other than that, I have nothing but great things to say about AA and their tech support.

[Albinonewt]

Someone should call the shirt ninjas

[cphilip]

I also have had good experiences with Air America. All of them good. If they having a problem then this is the first I ever heard of it. Sounds a bit exagerated to me... Consider the sources when you hear things like this. I not saying something can not slip up but for the the most part AA has a good customer service rep and a good product.

[MantisMag]

Originally posted by Albinonewt
Someone should call the shirt ninjas

http://img6.photobucket.com/albums/v16/mantismag/ninjaface.gif

[cphilip]

That user name is not going to be allowed

The linked post has blatantly racist comments from the get go in it.

The posters attitude stinks of smug creative writing. All these things sort of go to the credibility of the writer.

Some of you might be impressed but this is not Engish class for creative writing here. We want facts here. This one I seriously got my BS meter going off about. I just gotta level with ya. I read it all and its just going nutz! I feel it!

I remind anyone out there that slandering a companies good name is a serious thing. I would think twice about using a issue that should be confirmable with AA to demonstrate your ability to exagerate and spread rumors. They better be true is all I gotta say. Because AA will indeed know who this is. If indeed ANY of its true at all. I gotta call BS on this one though. I just got a good feeling about that. This one stinks of 16 to 17 year old smug internet anonamous I got to tell a story because I am bored creativity to me. I could be wrong... but often I am not. ;)

[RobAGD]

Suggestion :

Get rid of those hard reg seats for you LP regs.

Get a AGD Reg Valve Pin and a AGD Automag Reg seat and use those. You MAY have to tweak it a tad depending on your particular reg but thats all I use in my AA stuff. Tjose hard seats are way too hard. AGDE which is the Europen distrib for AA stuff ended up making thier own seats that were a tad softer.

With the soft setas you need to use the AGD pin not the AA pin.

-Robert

[Shykicker]

Originally posted by cphilip
That user name is not going to be allowed
Well, first off, if sounds like you might agree with the first interpretation of the original unbastardized form of the term, and the second is slang for a boot:
(Do not click if you are offended by mild vulgarity. You're warned:)

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=****kicker

[edit]Nevermind, the profanity filter is going to make you work for it. See if you can guess the four letter word in that dictionary deffinition.

Secondly, it is so-bastardized to prevent it from being offensive. In the six+ years I've been using it, it's not once been a problem. If you still dissagree, I'll change it. Would asteriking it out be an acceptible alternative?


Originally posted by cphilip
linked post has blatantly racist comments from the get go in it.
If you followed the link associated with my intro, which was MEANT to prevent this problem, you might realise that the words Nigard, Nigardly, etc. have NO RACIST CONNOTATIONS whatsoever. Notice the absence of esteemed sponsor of Sesame Street: The letter "E." Even such historical writers as Alexander Pope have used it, without, may I add, elliciting the wrath of uninformed alarmist wouldbe civil rights advocates. The term very much predates what we now call the "N word." Personally, I advocate civil rights to the letter, and I'm most offended at this kind of ignorant remark, especially in light of my disclaimer.


Originally posted by cphilip
The posters attitude stinks of smug creative writing. All these things sort of go to the credibility of the writer.
Forgive me if I skipped the chapter in American History where being a clever swine makes me a suspected liar. Oscar Wilde would be turning in his grave, if he believed in life after death. If you don't believe me, I have several of those EMails still in my Inbox. And before you question my motives, you must first examine them (or at least pretend to). What would drive me to lie about what great customer service I must have gotten from Air America? When you put two and two together, the only thing that would drive me to write such terrible things about them is for them to have conducted themselves so terribly. I'm sorry if I impressed you with my writing along the way. I'll try to be an idiot in the future.


Originally posted by cphilip
Some of you might be impressed but this is not Engish class for creative writing here. We want facts here. This one I seriously got my BS meter going off about. I just gotta level with ya. I read it all and its just going nutz! I feel it!
Speaking of creative writing, and let's introduce a new word: conjecture. I hope you have some pretty solid basis for pretending I'm a liar, because it looks like you're in the same boat as I am: in dissbelief of the horrid customer service Air America has shown me. Only I had physical evidence of the most menacing kind. I still pinched myself several times, because at the moment, it SEEMED like a customer service nightmare.

Though apparently it must have BEEN. According to you, I must have drempt it up and sent my tank to some imaginary company some imaginary two times, and imagined, infact, noises comming from my fill nipple. It's a good thing you cleared that up for me. Every time my paintball equipment malfunctions, I'll just tell myself to wake up.

It would be super neat if that actually worked.


Originally posted by cphilip
I remind anyone out there that slandering a companies good name is a serious thing.
Then should I remind you that slandering a member's good (abeit percievedly vulgar, apparently) name is equally serious? I'll be expecting a written appology when you find out how wrong you are.


Originally posted by cphilip
I would think twice about using a issue that should be confirmable with AA to demonstrate your ability to exagerate and spread rumors.
And I would think twice about posting such a bold accuisation on a whim. I seriously hope you don't expect any company with customer service this bad to fess up about their most absolute failures in a relatively simple task, which they've botched three times, on my count.


Originally posted by cphilip
They better be true is all I gotta say. Because AA will indeed know who this is. If indeed ANY of its true at all. I gotta call BS on this one though. I just got a good feeling about that. This one stinks of 16 to 17 year old smug internet anonamous I got to tell a story because I am bored creativity to me. I could be wrong... but often I am not. ;)
The name is Luke Holterman. Tell them I said "hi." Would you like a photo of my tank, while I'm at it, and all the crappy handouts they've sent me to try and make up for their uselessness? I could give you the name and number of the Airsmith who actually fixed it, so he can corroborate what a simple job it was? How many people are you willing to bother before you believe the inconceivable: that some companies might actually have crappy customer service, and that AA might simply be one of them.

Now, to be fair, I didn't go out of my way and tell everybody that they're liars because they've had better experiences than I. So why do you, now, go out of your way to besmirch me for, God forbid, being a consumer advocate, and letting people know what happened to me when I ordered Air America?

I'll be expecting your appology as soon as you realise that being pursuasive does not make someone a liar. 200 words or less, please.

If you care to EMail it, send it to the same address where Air America has sent so many appologies: lukeholterman@hotmail.com

For the records, and assuming you actually CALL Air America, the original Email on my account was ashytkicker@icqmail.com. Sorry if that offended you, but it's an important detail.

How's that for anonymous?

But yes, you're right. In future posts, I'll try to dumb myself down to my audience so that only people with high standards don't believe me. Let me practice:

OMG!! AIR AMERIKA SUXX0RZ!!!11!! 1 TMIE THEY NEVAR FIXXXED MY TANK AND I WAS LIEK "DOOD!"

What do you think? Too much proof-reading?

[Tron]

lol nice Luke. pwned.

[Shykicker]

lol thanks, but I wasn't trying to own anyone. This whole message was in my defense. I'm just dissapointed that this came from a moderator.

[Tron]

Most of the mods are great but they get a little to into it sometimes. Sucks but you have to be neutral a lot of times if you're modding a forum.

[Shykicker]

Probably, but there's nothing neutral about libellious suggestions that I'm trying to slander Air America with amusing lies. I'm sure other mods wouldn't have taken this route. Mods are generally a pretty respectable lot.

BTW I'm entirely willing to cooperate with the mods on my user name, as soon as I hear back on my options. I'm not sure that alluding to a four letter word is a valid offense when a mod, ironically, accuses me of "BS," but I can pick my fights on that one.

[slushee]

unfortunatly cphilip .. I have to agree with the little guy on this one .. I have spent many years claiming that AA was a great company .. but quite honestly AA seems to have dropped the ball.

I can assure you that AGD would test/re-test to make sure the product to be fixed was right before being sent back to the customer ..

When my tank still creeped after reciving it back from the factory supposidlly "tested" and in "working" order .. obviously my confidence was shaken in the company. After spending more on those 6 little reg seats then what I pay for car insurance in a year (yes, a little bit exaggerated I know, but 60$ to get them to canada is a bit much imo) and to pull the reg apart only to find a dirty reg seat .. a supposidly NEW reg seat covered in oil and dirt .. you see where i'm going with this i'm sure.

Unfortunatly for AA, all it takes is this one time to "accidentally" either put my faulty reg seat back into my tank or not to replace it at all and send it back to me "tested" and "working" .. but still obviously broken.

[cphilip]

I will give AA a call monday... And I got a good idea about this kind of thing when I see it. I go mostly on instinct about credibility. Thats sort of where I am on this right now. Yours was suspect from the get go. A new member coming in just to spread a negative story is nothing new. And often there is an motive for that.

I told you that name is not allowed. I decided just to change it. So now you have new one here.

I dont know what you find liabialous or whatever it is you want to call it about me calling you on the exact facts of that story. Your intitial accusation that its because they hire people of other nationalities is where you lost it with me. I find that mind set offensive and ignorant. So fromt that point on your entire story is tainted by that. So if I truely believe it then its hardly slander. And I made no effort to seek you out. You came here. With your story. And you did not have to repeat the names and contacts for me. Because they were already available to me in your other post! So no need to appear forthcoming when it was already information you posted.

I will look into it.

[cphilip]

Originally posted by Shykicker
Probably, but there's nothing neutral about libellious suggestions that I'm trying to slander Air America with amusing lies. I'm sure other mods wouldn't have taken this route. Mods are generally a pretty respectable lot.

BTW I'm entirely willing to cooperate with the mods on my user name, as soon as I hear back on my options. I'm not sure that alluding to a four letter word is a valid offense when a mod, ironically, accuses me of "BS," but I can pick my fights on that one.


Other mods? Whats that? Your sure of what? I have no idea what you are implying at all. I doubt you know.

And you assume too much. I was not refering to Niggardly in my reference to your obvious racism. I was reffering to your constant use of references to "illegal immigrant" and "deported" and such. Your glee at reaching finaly what you call "a Native. You go back to that theme time and time again. You refer to achievement of Anglo Saxxon language as a superiority and evidence of somehow intelligence. THAT is blatantly racist and if you dont get it then you are one. Simple as that. Now, since you brought it up, one could argue that that niggardly is not offensive. But to some it indeed is. It in fact is a derisive term no matter who its aimed at and was indeed bastardized to apply to Blacks. So no matter what you and I might want to use, such as a dictionary, it indeed was applied to a racist slur and became commonly recognised as such. And there is nothing we can do about that. Blame your forefathers if you want. But it was not my basis of calling you a racist. It was your other constant implying that all mistakes must be the result of hiring illegal immigrants i.e. Hispanics. Thats what set me off. And its a consistent theme in your diatribe. And its offensive.

No reason to assume there is no lies in there? Sure there is! I have to suspect why it is you wanted to come here with that whole thing. And you offended and disrespected other nationalities right away in your story. I gonna have to say you have done plenty to make me suspicious. I don't have to prove anything to you kid. I know where your coming from with just the little I have seen of you. But your on a different turf now. One where you better be 100% correct or someone is going to call you on it.

So you got a problem with Bull Snot? :D

[cphilip]

Originally posted by slushee
unfortunatly cphilip .. I have to agree with the little guy on this one .. I have spent many years claiming that AA was a great company .. but quite honestly AA seems to have dropped the ball.



Slushee, I said early on that I did not doubt they could mess up. But I have said they will make things right. From mine and many others experience. The thing here was the whole story had some REAL exagerations I suspected and some logic was used that I felt was totaly inapropriate. Namely the racist ones. Thats what I am having an issue with. That makes me doubt a lot of the story. Not every detail but a good bit of what I think are the embellishments to make the story more incredible. Thats where I am having trouble swallowing it.

[SuiciDal Sn Y p ER]

hmmm pbforum link isnt workin for me...

[cphilip]

Well here... let me post some of the stuff for you:

Anyway, my first volley with Tech Support indicated promptly that Air America was hiring illegal immigrants to fill some empty tech support positions. This one used the alias of "Deb."


I EMailed them to see what's up. Eventually I got an EMail back from Ted, the (so-called) air smith. Scanning the first few lines of the email, I was put at comfort. "Finally!" I revelled, "A native!" I took it as a good omen.



Good news, guys. "Deb" wasn't deported. She was re-appropriated to the telephone aspect of Customer Service, perhaps for the ease of use a phone dial provides, as compared to a keyboard. She appears to have mastered the dialect of a central-U.S. anglo-saxxon, but she doesn't fool me. I still assertain that "Deb," if that is her real name, must still be an illegal immigrant, by virtue of grammar (more notably, lack thereof). She may even walk amongst us, undetected.


He's not racist is he? :rolleyes:

[Mindflux]

Originally posted by cphilip

He's not racist is he? :rolleyes:


I'd say not. He's glad Deb wasn't deported.

By the way, if wishing to speak/email someone with good comprehension and spelling skills makes you racist. Count me in.

When words like "anonymous" go miss-spelled I get this twitch.. it must make me racist. :rolleyes:

[tony3]

I don't see how making "racist" comments makes a post worthless and full of lies as Phil was implying. I can honestly believe what this kid is saying. I have seen this happen with tons of companies, such as AKA, WGP, and WDP from stories on the forums. Bad experiences with companies happen...can we get over it already. Phil it seems that you are very loyal to AA and are sticking up for them like crazy, that is what I am getting from your posts. Maybe you just cannot bare to see them actually do something wrong*gasp*:rolleyes:

[cphilip]

I didn't say it did. But it goes to credibility.

And to interject that into a entire "report" of his experience where it has no relevance is somewhat of a mystery to me. For instance the first thing he does is try and define Niggardly. Then it has no relevance at all. We all know that definitions change but for some reason he started out his whole story trying to change the perception of a word that has no relevance in this story. Why? If you want to know the true "meaning" of a word to the general population then do not go to the dictionary. Gather up a group of people and say it out loud and see their reaction. Right or wrong... that the "meaning" of it. Try and show them the dictionary while they beating you up. You can beat your head against the wall all day long but the "meaning" of something is what the majority take it to mean.

And as for relevance...Niether do the references to people with low command of english being the root of his problem. And then the assumption that people that do not have complete command of the english language must be illegal immigrants. And then the assumption that they must be incompetent if they cannot speak fliud english. And then the assumption that an Anglo Saxxon must BE competent just because he is Anglo.

All that indeed is a racist view and for some reason gets interjected into the whole thing with no basis in fact nor any point ever being made from it. That has nothing to do with wanting to speak to a person that can understand you. Thats sort of different issue. But in this case he clearly concludes and goes on to use the terms as a deragatory refference of racist nature. One can clearly see those things in the story. And its innapropriate. And speaks to his credibility from that point on.

That is where the credibility gap comes from. And thats the whole point of my comments. The details of what happened between him and AA sort of get detracted from because he cannot refrain from interjecting racism into his whole story. I cannot condone that as a reasonable explanation of their errors nor do I think its acceptable to make that accusation. Its not relevant at all. And if he chose to do that then I am dubious of his credibility. Thats what my issue is with this whole thing. Its the internet after all. Credibility is proven not assumed.

If you wanted to report something just exactly like what happened to him you could and should stick to the facts. So no one can then challenge your credibility. Like this...

"I sent my tank to AA because the fill nipple leaked. They sent it back unfixed. And tried to charge me for it. They straightened that out and then it still leaked. I sent it back. They then tried to charge me AGAIN! I finaly got it back again, same mistake, tried to charge me. They then STILL didn't fix it. And my local guy fixed it and it was just the fill nipple. etc...etc... "

Easy... brevity... precise... facts....

The rest is all hogwash and he knows it. He wrote it to impress. He wrote it to offend. He did not write it to be noble and report an issue. Or he would have refrained from embelishing it with his racist comments which he laced in there for effect. Thats how I see it. Plain and simple. Why not? if thats his intent is to relate his problem with AA then for gosh sakes just do it. Its only credible to me without the deragatory assumptions and smart arse interjections of racism attached.

And no I am not sticking up for AA. I currently do not own their products. But I have had dealings with them and personaly experience. I opened with the fact that I knew they could make mistakes. But I find the facts here clouded with other issues that makes me wonder seriously about the intent of the poster. And I have outlined them. Believe who you would like. I am not here to change your mind. If you chose to trust someone you don't know that thinks this way then by all means its your right to do so.

[DiRTyBuNNy]

and you didn't think I thought AGD was so retarded they needed a drool cup because of the deal I originally went through with my X-Mag? I know that it all came out well in the end but that does not take away from the frustration and ludicrousness of the situation.

Many companies in paintball (including AA) are forgetting something they used to tout as one of the benefits of their products: Customer Service! I don't know how many different paintball companies I've had to call over the past few years and gotten horrible customer service. Threatening to not buy a companies products means nothing to them anymore. Go ahead and try and call the Dye Factory and see what kind of service you get; I promise more often than not you'll get treated like a red-headed stepchild and you think they even care?

New School Paintball = New School Attitude = New School Customer Service!

[Zumina]

There are still a lot of paintball companies that know who keeps them in business. My recent dealings with Shocktech, Professional Paintball, ACI, and Worr Games have been very pleasurable.

[paint magnet]

Originally posted by Cphillip
All that indeed is a racist view

Personally, I don't care if he's a member of the Ku Klux Klan, that has nothing to do with the validity of his complaint.

My .02

[cphilip]

Originally posted by paint magnet


Personally, I don't care if he's a member of the Ku Klux Klan, that has nothing to do with the validity of his complaint.

My .02

It would surely make me think twice about believing them.... i.e. Taking his word for it. Thats all he asks us to do. Just believe him. So what is the validity of his complaint? Do you know how valid it is? Pray tell how did you determine that? What criteria did YOU use to determine that? I got as little as you do to go on. New member... new complaint. Just trying to sift through it and decide with what little there is. And thats all I got to go on is how he conducts himself. And I am not very comfortable at all with what I see as his conduct. Wish I had more but I don't. So Mr smarty pants what criteria do you use? Are you assuming that it's valid or not? You don't say.... You just seem to want to make some point but don't really end up doing so.

[cledford]

I hate to say it - but I've had 3 very bad (and back to back) experiences with Air America also. That's 3 for 3 and then I just gave up and started buying the parts and working on my stuff myself. Frankly, shipping to, from, and insurance just isn't worth it if you've got no confidence that the problem will be fixed when it gets back. I think AGD and AA are close (I know Tom's said that he gave them the unireg design to run with on their N2 systems) so it pains me to put out a bad word about them - but I've got to be honest. In my case the problems occurred back in the '99-00 time frame, so I cannot speak to how things are currently, but I can say that I was VERY surprised with my experience back then. I wish I could support my friend Cphil on this one - but from what I can say based on my own past experience is that this can happen when dealing with them.

I still use my AA Armageddon's (I own 2) so obviously I saw something in their stuff - but if I cannot recommend the systems to those who cannot tech their own gear.


!!!!EDIT!!!! I'm leaving this up because it goes to the main point of the thread - but I just went back and read the rest of the thread. I had no idea that the original poster was making racist statement! Cphil - git 'im!

-Calvin

[cphilip]

Now there is a guy I can trust! Because I know him. I know Calvin Ledford tells me like it is. I got no problem with that at all Calvin. I hear ya loud and clear. See the difference here is I know Calvin is straight and true and he doesnt mish mash other stuff into what he is telling me happened to him. I trust him completely to tell me what happened and with no extra drama. I get it Calvin. No need to feel like your going against me. As far as thats concerned I really have no position. I just want only facts. You stuck to them and gave em to me. No extra drama... just the facts man! :D

[Albinonewt]

I played all day and I'm tired. Let me just add this.

CPhil is right. It can be no other way.

nuff' said.

[cphilip]

LOL... now Newt... you know I am never totaly right. NEVER. but I always got these vibes that lead me astray. I just not got a warm fuzzy here and I dont know why is all. Its just something about the way it was presented is all. I cannot put my finger on it exactly. I starting to think its more all the drama that preceeded it more than the facts contained within that I would have needed to strain though a filter to glean out. Maybe thats it...

[MantisMag]

didn't you cut your hair phil? i thought the ability to feel "vibes" was directly tied to the long hair. :p

[Shykicker]

Originally posted by cphilip
Other mods? Whats that? Your sure of what? I have no idea what you are implying at all. I doubt you know.
I don't know how I could make that much simpler. Despite my exchanges with you, I still have high expectations for other mods. :)



Originally posted by cphilip
And you assume too much. I was not refering to Niggardly in my reference to your obvious racism. I was reffering to your constant use of references to "illegal immigrant" and "deported" and such.
Which makes me wonder why it was filled with racism "from the get go." That whole episode was several paragraphs in. Which leads me to believe that you either have trouble picking your words, or that you're squirming and backtracking on that accusation. Not that it matters which it is. It still goes towards your 'credibility.' ;)



Originally posted by cphilip
Your glee at reaching finaly what you call "a Native. You go back to that theme time and time again. You refer to achievement of Anglo Saxxon language as a superiority and evidence of somehow intelligence. THAT is blatantly racist and if you dont get it then you are one.
I don't know where you got the superiority of anglo saxxons or their language from. Perhaps that conjecture says more about the reader than the writer. :D

As for wether a bias towards immigrants (or people who have the typing skills of one, for that matter) constitutes racism: this is an error. Being an alien of your resident country is entirely blind of race. If anything, it is perhaps a latent sense of nationalism. It's not a value judgement based on race, religion, or creed. And besides that, illegal immigrants are, well, illegal. So I'm not sure I'm required to reserve some profound degree of amnesty when I compare people's typing skills to theirs.

And because you completely missed it, "Deb" is infact an anglo-saxxon, who only types like an immigrant. Not exactly the person I'd hire to respond to my emails. I'll try to maintain the subtlety of a sledge hammer next time.


Originally posted by cphilip
Now, since you brought it up, one could argue that that niggardly is not offensive. But to some it indeed is. It in fact is a derisive term no matter who its aimed at and was indeed bastardized to apply to Blacks.
Actually, it's NOT bastardized "to apply to blacks." The "N word" comes from the Spanish word "negro" meaning black. NiggArd comes from the Scandinavian word "nig" meaning a stingy person. Not.. Rocket.. Science. As far as describing Air America's investment of time, resources, and professional skill towards my problem, I think the word "niggardly" suits them best. For that matter, I even explained my use of the word in the first category, linking the appropriate deffinition. I think I have all my bases covered, here.


Originally posted by cphilip
so no matter what you and I might want to use, such as a dictionary, it indeed was applied to a racist slur and became commonly recognised as such. And there is nothing we can do about that. Blame your forefathers if you want.
Again, no, and no. The blame lies in the present. You invented a word association, and now you're pretending it's correct. The two words: completely unrelated. Correlation, as they say, is not causation.


Originally posted by cphilip
But it was not my basis of calling you a racist. It was your other constant implying that all mistakes must be the result of hiring illegal immigrants i.e. Hispanics. Thats what set me off. And its a consistent theme in your diatribe. And its offensive.
Hey, wait a tic. You associate illegal immigration with hispanics, and that makes me a racist? I think the horse is on the wrong side of the carriage here. As for wether your preconceptions of my writing are offensive, you're the first one who's complained about it, or put a certian color skin on "Deb," for that matter.


Originally posted by cphilip
No reason to assume there is no lies in there? Sure there is! I have to suspect why it is you wanted to come here with that whole thing.
You think I came to AO to spread lies about Air America. And that's why I waited for someone to ASK about Air America. And that's why this is the first I've SAID here about Air America, and have been speaking, at length, about everything to the EXCLUSION of Air America until this thread.

You're... not a brain surgeon. Are you?




Originally posted by cphilip
And you offended and disrespected other nationalities right away in your story.
Y... yeah. I suppose the term "illegal immigrants" is pretty in line with "legal" immigrants and foriegn law students. I'm obviously just taking blows at lesser cultures , their funny atire, and their strange and primitive gods, or something stupid like that, right?

Now, back to reality, point out again where I dissrespected a nationality. Y'know, just kinda picked one out (the way you did) and just sort of... started poking at it with sticks.

I just think it's strange that I wrote that down, and somehow, I can't find it there today.


Originally posted by cphilip
I don't have to prove anything to you kid.
Feelings mutual, little guy. :)


Originally posted by cphilip
I know where your coming from with just the little I have seen of you.
Of course you do. We're all just sort of little pegs, and you've just gotta find the right hole for us. But, of course, I'm the prejudiced one. Riiight.


Originally posted by cphilip
But your on a different turf now. One where you better be 100% correct or someone is going to call you on it.
There you have it, folks. I am OBVIOUSLY the xenophobe here. Top knotch. I couldn't have made my point any better. My hat's off to you.


Originally posted by cphilip
So you got a problem with Bull Snot? :D
If I could see everything comming as far away as that, I'd never take a single paintball ever again. And speaking of BS... :D


Originally posted by cphilip
Now there is a guy I can trust! Because I know him. I know Calvin Ledford tells me like it is.
But of course, I'm still a liar, because you don't know me.

Hate to tell you, but that doesn't put me in a rush to get to 'know' you.


Originally posted by cphilip
For instance the first thing he does is try and define Niggardly. Then it has no relevance at all. We all know that definitions change but for some reason he started out his whole story trying to change the perception of a word that has no relevance in this story. Why?
And this belies your premise that the term "niggard" was NOT your motive to call me a racist.

But perhaps it was because the title of my thread was "Air America and You: A tale of lies, niggardry, and the pursuit of crappiness." You seem to be a little slow on the uptake of subtle literarry themes, so I'll spell it out. It rhymes with "Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness." You get a gold star if you can tell me where that comes from.


Originally posted by cphilip
If you want to know the true "meaning" of a word to the general population then do not go to the dictionary.
Oh, well that's obviously my first mistake. I'm using a dictionary. Silly me. I'm obviously the idiot here for using words to mean their documented deffinition, instead of their ever-changing social interpretations. As for your 'large group' theory, I posted it to an entire forum already, and got no response that I must be a racist. Your interpretation seems to be an isolated incident, so far.


Originally posted by cphilip
And as for relevance...Niether do the references to people with low command of english being the root of his problem.If you don't mind, I wrote that review, and I don't think you have the intellectual rights to re-write what I've written, so please read from my original unabbridged version, instead of pretending that I said all of my problems stemmed from "Deb"s dubious command of the english language.


Originally posted by cphilip
And then the assumption that they must be incompetent if they cannot speak fliud english.
Your assumption...


Originally posted by cphilip
And then the assumption that an Anglo Saxxon must BE competent just because he is Anglo.
And your assumption again. Y'know, I begin to get the feeling that you're a closeted racist. You've made all these racist-sounding assumptions out of thin air, and now I'm responsible for them? I certainly hope not.


Originally posted by cphilip
The details of what happened between him and AA sort of get detracted from because he cannot refrain from interjecting racism into his whole story.
Actually, it sounds like the problem is that YOU cannot refrain from interjecting racist comments into my whole story.

But I am impressed with that imagination of yours. You could be a writer yourself. Just stick to the historical fiction, and you should be fine. :)


Originally posted by cphilip
The rest is all hogwash and he knows it. He wrote it to impress. He wrote it to offend. He did not write it to be noble and report an issue.
Tycho at Penny-Arcade (http://www.penny-arcade.com) might dissagree with you. :D


I'm still waiting on that apology. Monday you said? Monday it is! :D

[cphilip]

Still creative as ever I see. I call em like I see em. You can try and twist it back around on me all you want. But your efforts to demean and belittle upon racial lines (which was never central to your story and unnessicary embelishments) remain no mater how you want to explain them.... No ones going to take the blame for them but you.

Calling them today. :D

[Thordic]

Odd, I never had any problems with AA.

I had an old Vigilante that was 100% shot. I could not get the damn thing to stop creeping for the life of me. One shop told me I might as well throw it out as it was never going to work again.

I gave it to AA at IAO, picked it up at the end of the tournament, and it worked! No charge, no hassle. They replaced all the internals for free, even the adjuster nut. The only thing that stayed the same was the outer housing.

The problem is people are more likely to talk about bad experiences than good ones so a few people with bad experiences sounds like a majority when the majority is silent.

[Shykicker]

That's entirely possible. But people need to know when a company is capable of messing up three times with one customer. Apparently, I'm not the only one AA has flipped the tripple duece. It's important, when a customer buys on-line, to make the smallest gamble possible. AA seems to be pretty hit-and-miss about impressing their customers. Either they really impress, or they leave a fairly sour taste. I sincerely hope mine was the worst case scenario, but the more I hear, the more I doubt it.

There's no guarantee they'll muck it up, but there's also no guarantee that they won't. And in my case, it went down hill from there.


Originally posted by cphilip
Still creative as ever I see. I call em like I see em. You can try and twist it back around on me all you want. But your efforts to demean and belittle upon racial lines (which was never central to your story and unnessicary embelishments) remain no mater how you want to explain them.... No ones going to take the blame for them but you.

Calling them today. :D

Well, come on. Let's not be modest. You're every bit the spin doctor that I am. :) The only reason I'm still here (in this thread) is to untwist what you've twisted, to put it in your own ways.

Remember, Luke Holterman says "hi!" Also, could you get 'Bob's proper name? I should really like to know. He's the guy on tech support duty. I neglected to ask, last I called.

Now I'll just be off to get my $20.00 from various tank manufacturers for slandering their opponents. No, wait, I've got a better one! I'm off to visit my close friend in the hospital who lost a hand from an exploding Air America tank. No, better yet, better yet! I'm off ro bed to brood over my ex who was cheating on me with an Air America sales rep! Yeah, that's a keeper motive. ;)

If you think of a better one, let me know. I'll just go with whatever sounds the best. :D

[cphilip]

LOL... I like your creativity if that helps ya feel better. Will say hello to Bob for ya. Also will get a list of illegal immigrants for you... ;)

[lord1234]

don't some of the AA techs troll these forums? We want the guy in the dress(errrr kilt)!!!

[Shykicker]

You wouldn't mind if I put that apology in my sig, would you? Looking forward to it. :)

[Shane-O-Mac]

KILT MAN HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ok, i havent called the factory and discussed this little conundrum yet.
BUT here's my 10bucks worth on the subject.

S***KYCKER or what ever your name is, here is some hard facts.

1: AA does test EVERY system that goes outthe door. i know it, as i have spent days there and watching how they operate.

2. sometimes, systems do not work after they are sent back to you. i have seen this happen, and guess what? IT HAPPENS, no other explaination is needed. ever hear the term, bad things happen to good people?

3. everyone should physicaly call them when needing tech support or warranty work, why? because the tech can get more info about what is really going on. emailing back and forth can be counter productive. as it takes way to long to fully get to the root of the problem. (maybe not in your case, but anyway)

4. NOW, how about the hard facts of your statements? exactly how long from time sent in to time sent back? show some proof, not just tell someone about it. if you accuse anyone of terrible service, you had better have the facts present and ready to show, or the B.S. flag goes up. facts talk buddy. show them.

5. you are obviously over-educated, why do i say that? because as well as you write and debate, you fail to realise that using the term "niggardly" will anger many people, because not many people know that that term does not imply race. consider all of us idiots, when you bust out the websters big book ok? and such LARGE words are not needed. YOU just wanted to tell you SAD, SAD story and you wanted to make it funny, and belittling. any idiot can see that, even ME.

OK, now the tech stuff.

1. does anyone REALLY belive that any company that has a warranty, will just return ship your product to you with out testing it at least? why waste the money on return shipping it to you? why not just tell you to get stuffed? dont send it in? you have a brain use it. assuming that they didnt do anything, is the easy way out. being upset that it wasnt fixed the first time is normal, and expected. but you only barely acknowledged, that they did try and compensate you and try and make it up to you.

2. ok if it was just a fill nipple, then why in heavens name didnt you just say so in the first place? when you say to a tech person, "my system has a leak" there could be a dozen different problems. if you say my fill nipple is leaking, I would say, fine let me check it, and i will replace it. OR, you could have had your local guy that ended up fixing it, fix it in the first place. I am not saying that that is what you should have done, but did you see if someone could fix it locally, easily with out shipping it anywhere?

3. there was a bad batch of reg seats in the run of "the reg", so any "the reg" system that comes in gets a full testing, to make sure the seat is good and doesnt creep. that takes time, about 3 days to be exact. the system is filled, and put on a tester and left for 2 days or more to see that it holds pressure and doesnt creep. so more time is spent making sure that your system is working properly.

4. maybe whomever was filling your tank is doing it improperly? something to consider, because if AA filled it, and tested it (which i am positive they did)why did it not leak for them?

5. when you sent it to them, was it clear that all the problem was, was a leaking fill nipple? or did you just say, my tank leaks, fix it?

So, mr kycker, i do belive that NO one owes you an apology, and if apologies were to be made, then they should be to AA, for the degrading comments YOU made. They made apologies to you and tried to make it right with you, so what was really the problem? dont know, I can not filter all the ignorant comments, from the facts. the only problem i see, is that your air system didnt work as expected, BUT the company DID try and take care of you. go do a search (here in AO) on AKA and a problem that cledford (i think) had with AKA. there final responce to the problem? heres your money dont ever call us again and dont buy our product. did you get that kind of service? so all in all, try and be more understanding, rather than take the pbnation method of whining to everyone that will listen. CACA happens, it is the distance that soemone will go to make it right, thats important.

Shane-O

b.t.w. i will be waiting for a public apology to AA for the derogatory comments. so i guess you and i will be waiting awhile for our apologies huh?

[Duke Henry]

Just to correlate with the title of the thread, here is my experience with AA recently. Years ago, I had great experiences with them (2 in total) which is why a few years ago I purchased another AA tank).

I have an AA apoc 2k that tends to leak over long periods of time. Now, I know it is not the tank itself that is leaking, since it passed hydro without problem.

I however think it has something to do with my on/off or the basic reg itself, since the on/off is hard to turn and perhaps is not turning off or something since it seems to NOT leak if I use it for an entire day (in the ON position). I will end up pulling the reg apart and taking a look at it, but I digress...

Anyway, I explained this in emails and in a letter I included with my tank when I sent it across the border to AA. Anyway, I got it back and it still leaks. There was no note, no nothing with it, I just received an email telling me that it was fixed and on its way back.

Well, after getting hit with $150 in brokerage charges, and the problem was never resolved, why would I want to send it in again? I can't wait another 3 weeks or so and play sans-tank, so basically I just dumped $150 into the hole in the ground that is customs.

Will I buy another AA tank again? No, I will head down to my local shop and take a look at an Evil Scion or perhaps a preset for my Matrix - I can't afford to stick with AA.

[cphilip]

Excellent post Shane-O-Mac. The things you note about fill nipple leaking are exacty where I was suspicious. Thats a user service item that tends to be a problem. If you sift through all the creative writing that has nothing to do with the issue thats what you get. And if you look close enough you see he says they sent him a fill nipple cover the second time. I think that was a hint... But he makes light of that gift. But it is a message I think.

Update: Now as for calling them.... JJ did that for me this morning (just a little while ago) and talked to Ted because JJ knows Ted fairly well and JJ is local. Ted is more or less not wanting to dig through old records to try and find the tech notes. Ted thinks I am stupid for arguing with some kid on the internet. And that for certain I have to agree with! :D LOL.. but sometimes I just can't help myself!!! However I just appeal to him again to please look for me. Course I don't blame him if he doesn't want to..but we will just have to wait and see if he is willing to do it. I have not heard back from him a second time yet.

But if he doesn't then I will be left to assume some things and some of those will not be assumed in AA's favor unless they want to rebut. Fair warning AA!

Regardless...I do believe AA is owed an apology for the unkind remarks about people that work there. If they turn out to be incompetent then its not got anything to do with nationality. Its simply incompetence. Perhaps aided with lack of communcation from both parties but without thier side of it I am left to assume to many things.

So I wait to hear back from Ted again...

[Shane-O-Mac]

Duke: sorry to hear about the bad experiance. i wish they had a repair center in canada. many tanks loose pressure while sitting. my tanks will lose 2000psi in two weeks sometimes, but a leak can never be found. sometimes it is so small a leak you cannot find it, or it is an intermitant leak, that usally doesnt show itself when you are looking for it. (works with cars and strange noises too). I actually just deal with it, as i have tried to repair it, (i have all parts needed) and finally gave up, and didnt worry (but i get free air fills). BUT many people have limited access to air fills and want their tank to hold all the air it can, so they arent losing any, which is understandable. Good luck finding another tank that fits your needs. (not meant to be rude)

Shane-O

[cphilip]

Ok Ted is on the case. Later today he is going to get the info as best he can. And review all the posts. Without directly getting involved he will pass that onto me.

In the mean time he wrote this:

Regarding the "Illegal Immigrants", I have no idea where that came from
other then to try and build some character into his "story". Everyone he
spoke with here is 3-4 generation AMERICANS!.

Yes my fore fathers hailed from other countries but so did Enrico Fermi, Leo Szilard, Stanislaw Ulam, Albert Einstein, Edward Teller, Hans Bethe, Emillio Serge, John Von Neuman, James Franck and Eugene Wigner and if it wasn't for them we'd most likely be speak Japanese right now. So you can thank Mr. Holterman (German by the way, isn't it?) for putting us in such an elite class. Oh BTW did you know that the majority of winners of the Nobel Prize for Physics are also "Immigrants"

I think thats very well put. VERY good points there and well written.

[tyrion2323]

No offense CPhil, but I think that you're seeing something that isn't there. I don't think that ShytKicker was attempting to be racist in any way. Yeah, he could have worded a few things differently, but his story was fairly universal.

I know that it really, really sucks to call up a company's tech support and not be able to understand what the heck they're saying. I don't believe myself to be a racist at all, and I can point to the fact that I come from a liberal state (VT) and I worked with the Progressive Party and the Vermont Democracy Fund (check 'em out if you need) AND I maintain ties with the Latin Student Union, the Black Student Union and the Moslem Language Club to prove it.

With that said, I still believe that, if you're working a Customer Service job in America, you should be able to speak English fluently. The same goes for anywhere. If I went to France and tried to work as a customer service associate, I should be able to speak French fluently. Or German in Germany, or Hebrew in Israel, or whatever.

Peace,

Jacob

[Butterfingers]

ShyKicker... I think Cphilip is saying you need to get off your high horse... it kinda irritates people and rubs people the wrong way. Its kinda unpleasant actually.

Rub people the wrong way they tend to be very critical with you.

Debate it all you want that's reality.

[tyrion2323]

I'll go back and read it again; however, I really think that ShytKicker was just trying to present a frustrating situation in a humorous way. (sp. on humorous?)

Perhaps I am wrong. However, I can remember a post that CPhil made in the Civil War Paintball thread where he said he wanted to defend the 'gentlemanly South" or something like that.

I'm guessing that Phil is probably not pro-slavery; however, it kinda reads the same way. Just a thought.

[Shykicker]

Originally posted by Shane-O-Mac
KILT MAN HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ok, i havent called the factory and discussed this little conundrum yet.
Maybe you should have done that first then. If anything, it will save YOU an apology.


1: AA does test EVERY system that goes outthe door. i know it, as i have spent days there and watching how they operate.
Yes, that certianly is what they've said in their EMails. Which leads me to wonder why they couldn't do so little as put their ear to the fill nipple. But... this is assuming they filled it at all in the first place. And yes, I know the party line, that they even flash fill their tanks to ensure that they can withstand it. I've heard that twice straight from their mouths.


2. sometimes, systems do not work after they are sent back to you. i have seen this happen, and guess what? IT HAPPENS, no other explaination is needed. ever hear the term, bad things happen to good people?Oh, yeah, that'd be a killer PR line. "Air America: Where bad things happen to good people."

I think I've made it revoltingly clear that I had the patience to deal with recieving it broken twice. The thrid time, I didn't see the point in sending it back again. Ever hear the term "Three strikes and you're out?" Get with the program, here.


3. everyone should physicaly call them when needing tech support or warranty work, why? because the tech can get more info about what is really going on. emailing back and forth can be counter productive. as it takes way to long to fully get to the root of the problem. (maybe not in your case, but anyway)Heh. Yeah. Some of us communicate more efficiently in writing. Some of us work durring "regular business hours." I am both of those, so it was most convenient for me to use EMail. Besides that, I don't know how many ways you need to say "I put it in water and bubbles came out the fill nipple." Or "I put it to my ear, and it said "Shhhhhhhhhhh!" This isn't rocket science here. Again, it's something my pro-shop guy diagnosed and fixxed in under ten minutes.


4. NOW, how about the hard facts of your statements? exactly how long from time sent in to time sent back? show some proof, not just tell someone about it. if you accuse anyone of terrible service, you had better have the facts present and ready to show, or the B.S. flag goes up. facts talk buddy. show them.
Proof, ey? You want the UPS Box labels? Lessee, I ordered it in February 2003, recieved it, finally, in may 2003 (thanks in part to a lengthy delay in backorders, and also in part to Deb ignoring one of my Emails), sent it back early March 2003, got it back around mid-March, and didn't play for a while. Spent most of the summer either working, on vacation, or fine-tuning my art portfilio, and sent it back in early June (I didn't really have the money to play at the time anyway, between work, school, and having spent a week in Florida.) And then commenced EMails with 'Bob' in mid-december, and had to wait for 'bob' who was, understandably, unreachable at Christmas, but neglected to check his EMails uppon his return. So Mid-January, Bob's UPS guy picks up the tank, and I don't think I heard from it again until Late January/Early February (Edit: Correction: 02-05-04, according to the postmark). Filled the tank up, obviously, some time between then and Feb 11. and my Airsmith charged me $10.00 to REALLY fix it.


5. you are obviously over-educated, why do i say that? because as well as you write and debate, you fail to realise that using the term "niggardly" will anger many people, because not many people know that that term does not imply race. consider all of us idiots, when you bust out the websters big book ok? and such LARGE words are not needed. YOU just wanted to tell you SAD, SAD story and you wanted to make it funny, and belittling. any idiot can see that, even ME.See also my disclaimer at the top of the page. It's there expressely for idiots. :D


1. does anyone REALLY belive that any company that has a warranty, will just return ship your product to you with out testing it at least? why waste the money on return shipping it to you? why not just tell you to get stuffed? dont send it in? you have a brain use it. assuming that they didnt do anything, is the easy way out. being upset that it wasnt fixed the first time is normal, and expected. but you only barely acknowledged, that they did try and compensate you and try and make it up to you.
No, no not really. They DID fix SOMETHING each time. I think the first time, it was a cup seal. Which did nothing for the problem, when they tried it, aswell as when MY airsmith tried it. Fact: They DID replace the cupseal. Fact: they did send it back. Fact: it returned with the same audiable leak, only minus the rubber fill nipple cover (WHICH THEY LATER CALLED A "possible cause" OF THE PROBLEM! That THEY neglected to put the fill nipple cover back on. Seer moronity.) Just give me a little benefit ala doubt here, and assume these facts are all true- and they are- what is your best assumption? That they passed it off as a broken cup seal and were done with it.


2. ok if it was just a fill nipple, then why in heavens name didnt you just say so in the first place? when you say to a tech person, "my system has a leak" there could be a dozen different problems. if you say my fill nipple is leaking, I would say, fine let me check it, and i will replace it. OR, you could have had your local guy that ended up fixing it, fix it in the first place. I am not saying that that is what you should have done, but did you see if someone could fix it locally, easily with out shipping it anywhere? Ohhhh lordy, lordy, lordy. This one is dense.

You think that someone as detailed and thourough as myself (You've READ this thread, haven't you?) just kind of sent the the one-liner EMail "my tank has a leak." Do you honestly believe that for a second? I specified the place of the leak, I specified the time of the leak, how long it took, at the very least, to fully empty out, and pretty much every other detail I could fathom from the outside of the tank.

Please, please, please, think before posting further. PLEASE. And then think again, just incase. I don't know where you got "my tank has a leak" from a relatively verbose guy like myself, but it wasn't me. If you want to ask, by all means ask, but don't barge in here and twiddle ignorant assumptions at me.


3. there was a bad batch of reg seats in the run of "the reg", so any "the reg" system that comes in gets a full testing, to make sure the seat is good and doesnt creep. that takes time, about 3 days to be exact. the system is filled, and put on a tester and left for 2 days or more to see that it holds pressure and doesnt creep. so more time is spent making sure that your system is working properly.

One step ahead of you. The second time I sent it in, they replaced the reg seat. And apparently, spent just as much time testing it as they had before (read: zippo.) I'm just glad these are not auto mechanics.

Or who knows, for that matter. Maybe they are.


4. maybe whomever was filling your tank is doing it improperly? something to consider, because if AA filled it, and tested it (which i am positive they did)why did it not leak for them? MY GOD, DO YOU WORK FOR AIR AMERICA?

That was their first 'possible cause' of my problems (meaning, roughly, "anything but us"), especially because they assumed, with no epmyrical testing, that it was a broken cup seal, and that it had been flash filled. So the next time, I went an hout's drive out to a diffirent air smith, and watched him super-carefully. Trust me, he could not have gone any slower. And, of course, small coincidence that after replacing the fill nipple, suddenly everyone could fill it again.


5. when you sent it to them, was it clear that all the problem was, was a leaking fill nipple? or did you just say, my tank leaks, fix it?You should really ask this question before you accuse me of it, like you just did back at question 2.

For one, it's a little known fact that you can make audiable the sound of a leaking fill nipple by covering it with a fill nipple cover. It begins to whistle. When you take it off, the whistling stops. What's more, I submerged it in water, and guess where the bubbles came out. My home boy, the fill nipple.


So, mr kycker, i do belive that NO one owes you an apology, and if apologies were to be made, then they should be to AA, for the degrading comments YOU made.
Sorry? Come again? Are you native a little blue plannet with green spots on it? Can you at least see it out your window?


They made apologies to you and tried to make it right with you, so what was really the problem?

1. They failed.

2. They failed miserably, at that. Three times.

3. It was a ten minute job, provided you know what your're doing.

4. They misdiagnosed the problem, and pretended my tank was fixed, each time sending it back with an identical problem. Can they not afford a bucker with water, or what?


go do a search (here in AO) on AKA and a problem that cledford (i think) had with AKA. there final responce to the problem? heres your money dont ever call us again and dont buy our product. did you get that kind of service?No, but a refund is more useful than a malfunctioning tank. At least one of them is worth something. I had actually posed the question of a refund in one of my last EMails to them, and I never heard back from them. I'm just assuming that my useless warranty is void for going to an outside airsmith, and they don't want to deal with it anymore. Even if not, I'm not sending it back, nor do I need to EMail them any further. They're not actually good for DOING anything in my experience.

Listen, it's nice that you want me to appreciate their effort in "trying" to fix my tank, two times, but I didn't pay for their effort and a leaky tank. I don't think you're going to appreciate a plumber who doesn't fix your toilet and charges you anyway for "trying." Nice try, but that's not how the exchange of money for goods and services works. It's called "fraud" and "false advertising." Not that I care.


CACA happens, it is the distance that soemone will go to make it right, thats important.
Or the distance they fail to go, for that matter. IE producing a working HPA tank in one of three tries. As for "understanding," they've already admitted to me what a horrible botch-up job it was over the phone, and that they would get it to me fixxed. They never did, and so I passed on their evaluation. In my own terms.


b.t.w. i will be waiting for a public apology to AA for the derogatory comments. so i guess you and i will be waiting awhile for our apologies huh?

I dun think so. The customer does not owe the incompetant staff appologies. I think it goes the other way around. And it did.


Originally posted by Butterfingers
ShyKicker... I think Cphilip is saying you need to get off your high horse... it kinda irritates people and rubs people the wrong way. Its kinda unpleasant actually.

Rub people the wrong way they tend to be very critical with you.

Debate it all you want that's reality.
Funny, I'm very much the same way. Take a gander at yon first page and tell me who attacked who's credibility first. I don't think there's a horse higher than dictating truth and fiction in the confines of pure ignorance.

[cphilip]

Those are valid points tyrion2323. May be he ment it to make the story more humerous. Except when challenged on it he doesn't say that... He could have... But he doesn't admit ever that he embellished the story to be humerous or for any other reason. Nor does he admit its embellished AT ALL!

And as the last reference. That was a bunch of us getting into character for the Civil war re enactment scenario game. And admittedly ment for humor. No one would have read that into it, but if it they did I would certainly appologise for that. Will do so right now if need be. Assuming anyone took it to mean that.

I however do not see the same issue at all here with something like a Character role playing. He is claiming to relate a true story....

Butter makes the point very well. Exactly!

I gonna keep giving you AA stuff from time to time. Dig a hole for me will ya? :D

[Shykicker]

Come again? Where does it say I haven't embellished anything? I already told you plain, simple, and straight forward that Deb is not actually an illegal immigrant, but infact sounded rather anglo-saxxon on the phone.

I think that hyperboles like that tend to be quite obvious, if you're not already looking to pick a knit with me. Had you tried to enjoy it like everyone else who read and enjoyed it, you might have gotten the jist of things.

[tyrion2323]

CPhil,

I don't mean that you need to apologize. I was just saying that maybe it was the same sort of thing. Obviously, ShytKicker likes to go all-out when it comes to telling a story. There's no doubt in my mind that he may be playing it up a little bit.

I definitely respect that you were getting into the mood of RPing the Civil War. In my opinion, we need more people who will get into RPing, and to stop KSing and camping...oh wait, I'm starting on my MMORPG rant again! :D

Other than that, I respect both of your opinions. Obviously, you've had different interactions with AA.

Jacob

[cphilip]

Originally posted by Shykicker
Take a gander at yon first page and tell me who attacked who's credibility first. I don't think there's a horse higher than dictating truth and fiction in the confines of pure ignorance.

Yep... you did. You attacked AA's credibility. Not only that you slandered specific people and now are livid over someone calling you on it.

[cphilip]

Originally posted by tyrion2323
CPhil,

I don't mean that you need to apologize. I was just saying that maybe it was the same sort of thing. Obviously, ShytKicker likes to go all-out when it comes to telling a story. There's no doubt in my mind that he may be playing it up a little bit.

I definitely respect that you were getting into the mood of RPing the Civil War. In my opinion, we need more people who will get into RPing, and to stop KSing and camping...oh wait, I'm starting on my MMORPG rant again! :D

Other than that, I respect both of your opinions. Obviously, you've had different interactions with AA.

Jacob

I fully understood that Jacob. No harm no foul. We cool.

[cphilip]

Originally posted by Shykicker
Come again? Where does it say I haven't embellished anything? I already told you plain, simple, and straight forward that Deb is not actually an illegal immigrant, but infact sounded rather anglo-saxxon on the phone.

I think that hyperboles like that tend to be quite obvious, if you're not already looking to pick a knit with me. Had you tried to enjoy it like everyone else who read and enjoyed it, you might have gotten the jist of things.

Thats a back track....

I did enjoy it. To some extent...

Oh and AA wants to see the results of your finger printing. Embellishment too?

From AA: Regarding the testing
issue...EVERY repair, new product, or service call MUST be tested prior to
the item being moved to the building next door for shipping. The testing of
the unit is recorded and the output pressure is set to factory
specifications. Which leads me to believe what you said about dirty air
fills. So if "Mr." Holterman has "finger printed" the regulator (as he makes
reference to one of his posts) I would be really interested in seeing not
only his proof but also his results

[Shykicker]

Originally posted by cphilip


Yep... you did. You attacked AA's credibility. Not only that you slandered specific people and now are livid over someone calling you on it.

Only that one of us knew what we were talking about. You, on the other hand, refferenced your major source of insight as... vibes?

Which is fair enough. It is every man's right to make an *** of one's self. :D

Oh, *ahem* it's Monday afternoon. Aren't you stalling a bit? You DO have a telephone call to make.

[cphilip]

I have already provided you with some of AA's responses. I going to give them to you slowly but surely...Calls already made and everything. So far you seem to be changing your story a bunch now too... And nothing has backed you up at all at this point. :D

[cphilip]

Originally posted by Shykicker


Which is fair enough. It is every man's right to make an *** of one's self. :D



And you doing a right good job of it.... ;)

[Shykicker]

Originally posted by cphilip


Thats a back track....

I did enjoy it. To some extent...Just because you're putting words in my mouth doesn't mean I'm backtracking. It's very simple. I never said that, and now you're saying that I did.


Originally posted by cphilip

Oh and AA wants to see the results of your finger printing. Embellishment too?

From AA: Regarding the testing
issue...EVERY repair, new product, or service call MUST be tested prior to
the item being moved to the building next door for shipping. The testing of
the unit is recorded and the output pressure is set to factory
specifications. Which leads me to believe what you said about dirty air
fills. So if "Mr." Holterman has "finger printed" the regulator (as he makes
reference to one of his posts) I would be really interested in seeing not
only his proof but also his results

Ah, don't suppose you care to share the rest of that EMail?

And I can only imagine the joke that this email was. "Hey, this guy says he fingerprinted the tank he got back." Real reliable.

And for everyone not 'in the know,' that's not a refference to the writing in question, but a follow-up post on that board based on forum feed-back. It can't possibly even be TAKEN litterally.


Trust me when I say, if I dusted this tank for fingerprints, we would not see hide nor hair of Air America's 'trained professionals.'
Source: http://www.paintballforum.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=55620&perpage=20&pagenumber=1
(scroll waaaaaaay down.)

Sounds like somebody's been misquoting me again.

[cphilip]

He read the comment himself. Was not in response to any question I had. I didn't even see it until he responded to it to me. :D I think again thats an accusation you made without considering the results it might have.

And don't go complaining to me if someone else is taking it literaly. You wrote it and just now you are trying to claim "missunderstanding" as your defense. You didn't early on. You stuck to the story. So its a little too late for that dodge. Your flat out having to admit most of it was indeed made up aren't you? Now your constantly claiming it was all a joke.. You didn't claim that earlier.... but...Ooops! You just did!

[Mindflux]

Originally posted by cphilip
He read the comment himself. Was not in response to any question I had. I didn't even see it until he responded to it to me. :D I think again thats an accusation you made without considering the results it might have.

And don't go complaining to me if someone else is taking it literaly. You wrote it and just now you are trying to claim "missunderstanding" as your defense. You didn't early on. You stuck to the story. So its a little too late for that dodge. Your flat out having to admit most of it was indeed made up aren't you? Now your constantly claiming it was all a joke.. You didn't claim that earlier.... but...Ooops! You just did!


He said misquote, not misunderstand. I see him still standing ground. I've yet to see him back down.

Definitions of misunderstand on the Web:

interpret in the wrong way; "Don't misinterpret my comments as criticism"; "She misconstrued my remarks"

Definitions of MISQUOTE on the Web:

quote incorrectly; "He had misquoted the politician"
www.cogsci.princeton.edu/cgi-bin/webwn

[cphilip]

Originally posted by Shykicker
Just because you're putting words in my mouth doesn't mean I'm backtracking. It's very simple. I never said that, and now you're saying that I did.





Hmmm.... me putting words in YOUR mouth.... sounds like something you have spent most of your time doing to me so far. And check back.... you put em there yourself. You stood by your story verbatim until today. Acted all insulted when I questioned it. Poor baby... I guess turn about is fair play though if thats what you want to call it.

[Shykicker]

Care to quote me on that?

Earlier, I said I was not a racist.

Today I said I was not speaking literally.

Particularly about Deb. (I thought that was BLATANTLY obvious, but then again, some people took "A Modest Proposal" literally.) I don't think that marrs my credibility at all, unless you're willing to make the ad-hominem leap of faith that anyone with a sense of literary humor is a liar.

Neither of those have to do with eachother. Re-reading these things, yourself, might do you good. These are fairly simple distinctions to grasp. :)

Out of curiosity, did you actually believe I had scrawled tallies accross my wall, too?


You stood by your story verbatim until today. Acted all insulted when I questioned it. Did I? Care to quote the passage where I said, "Oh, by the way, the whole writing is entirely literal. Fire away, boys!" It's not my fault if you're too dense to pick up on it. :)

[cphilip]

Originally posted by Mindflux



He said misquote, not misunderstand. I see him still standing ground. I've yet to see him back down.



Oh no he is not backing down. Even if the face of challenge that it was all made up for the most part. He is admitting he made a lot of embellishments now though. But not backing down. Now claiming its all our fault for missinterpreting is now his argument. Very well may be. But wasn't his argument before. Seems its just a new excuse.

[cphilip]

Originally posted by Shykicker
Earlier, I said I was not a racist.

Today I said I was not speaking literally.

Particularly about Deb. (I thought that was BLATANTLY obvious, but then again, some people took "A Modest Proposal" literally.) I don't think that marrs my credibility at all, unless you're willing to make the ad-hominem leap of faith that anyone with a sense of literary humor is a liar.



Now that I can accept. It would be easier to accept heartfelt explanations if they were not accompanied by insult but for the sake of argument I will indeed accept that you were attempting to create a humerous story out of a basic frustration that you had. And thats certainly an acceptable explanation. If thats what you are attempting to do then fine.. I will accept that explanation.

[Shykicker]

whew. Fair enough, and just in time. I've got to leave for work. It's good to come to terms. :D

[cphilip]

LOL! OK. thats cool.

Now stop with the insults and discuss this rationaly and we be fine. Thats sort of the point now after all. Your creativity does impress me. I was amused by your rewrites and all of my posts. Funny stuff.

Your credibility somewhat restored by the revelation that you like to create some amusing stories to go with the facts (as you see them). But I do want to make a point to you that this is just not always a very good way to publicly address a serious charge against a company. If its a serious charge then more of your stuff is likely to be TAKEN seriously. Not as you might have liked. Thats the error you made in my opinion. Mixing humor with what is a serious accusation. Does not mix well at all. I hope you get where I am coming on with that?

See ya later. We finish this as the rest of the story unfolds. This has been fun.

And welcome to AO by the way.

[Crighton]

I usually take any complaint about customer service as the truth. As I've had a number of different problems with companies who on average have "excellent" customer service. As you all also know &*& happens.

Personally I saw his post as a way to convey his annoyance with poorly written/checked emails and sloppy/non-existant repair work. He simply wanted to make the entire ordeal into an interesting read. I also do not find it beyond reason that he expects corporate correspondence to be checked and in a professional format.

Either way both threads were surprisingly amusing.

[cphilip]

I think that is indeed his intent but because it was a serious charge it lead some to some unexpected links he never intended to be made. Again... not always good to mix those two.

It is indeed an amusing thread. ;)

[BetaMax]

And so the two went off into the sunset as new friends.

[cphilip]

Originally posted by BetaMax
And so the two went off into the sunset as new friends.

Its all good. He seems like an amusing addition to our little disfunctional family. I kinda like him. Even though he likes to insult he kinda reminds me of myself. Only he is smarter! :D

[paint magnet]

Originally posted by cphilip


It would surely make me think twice about believing them.... i.e. Taking his word for it. Thats all he asks us to do. Just believe him. So what is the validity of his complaint? Do you know how valid it is? Pray tell how did you determine that? What criteria did YOU use to determine that? I got as little as you do to go on. This is true New member... new complaint. Just trying to sift through it and decide with what little there is. And thats all I got to go on is how he conducts himself. And I am not very comfortable at all with what I see as his conduct. Wish I had more but I don't. So Mr smarty pants what criteria do you use? Are you assuming that it's valid or not? You don't say.... You just seem to want to make some point but don't really end up doing so. I never said if it was valid or not, I was just stating the fact that even if he was a "racist" as you claimed, it would not have made any difference as to the validity of the complaint. I am not trying to justify racists or say who is right or wrong, I'm just pointing out that it would not have had anything to do with Air America's customer service. For instance, if Adolf Hitler had said "The French suck at fighting wars!", it would have been a statement made by a very racist and notably evil man, but that does not make it untrue :D

With that said, I'm not trying to cause any trouble, so let's bury the hatchet, shall we? (and yes, I know, posting this in the first place could be seen by some as trying to dig up the aforementioned proverbial hatchet, but it is simply a late reply)

[Butterfingers]

Shykicker, your post on paintball forum obviously irritated Cphilip or else he wouldent be arguing with you.

Im sure my black and hispanic friends would take offense to your post. Did I tell you what he did to some kid the last time he heard the N word?

Hell I took a little offense to your vocabulary.

Sorry not everybody thinks the way you do... Hard to beleive isnt it?

You obviously give people the feeling that you perceive yourself as "holier than thou" otherwise I wouldent be commenting.

Heres my advice learn to chill out a bit... You might have a hard time beleiving it but you can't be right ALL the time ;)

Thats the bottom line...

[tony3]

I think people need to laugh at themselves a bit more. I don't know, I'm not black so I don't know how I would reach to the N word, I don't get it, black people call white people crackers, black people call eachother the N word, does this make sense at all? Chappelle says the N word on his show all the time and people just laugh. I'm really confused:(

[Shane-O-Mac]

Mr Kycker:

1. i do not "work" for AA, but i do tech for them at events and around my hometown area. in my post i did not say that problems didnt happen or that AA was right and you weren't. just so you know, that i am being entirely fair to either side.

2. ok, lets me get all this straight:

"Proof, ey? You want the UPS Box labels? Lessee, I ordered it in February 2003, recieved it, finally, in may 2003 (thanks in part to a lengthy delay in backorders, and also in part to Deb ignoring one of my Emails), sent it back early March 2003, got it back around mid-March, and didn't play for a while. Spent most of the summer either working, on vacation, or fine-tuning my art portfilio, and sent it back in early June (I didn't really have the money to play at the time anyway, between work, school, and having spent a week in Florida.) And then commenced EMails with 'Bob' in mid-december, and had to wait for 'bob' who was, understandably, unreachable at Christmas, but neglected to check his EMails uppon his return. So Mid-January, Bob's UPS guy picks up the tank, and I don't think I heard from it again until Late January/Early February (Edit: Correction: 02-05-04, according to the postmark). Filled the tank up, obviously, some time between then and Feb 11. and my Airsmith charged me $10.00 to REALLY fix it. "

you first received your tank in may 2003, then sent the tank back in march 2003? do you have a time machine?

got it back mid-march, thats 10-14 days.

spent the summer doing something else, but sent it back in june? isnt june in the summer?

you didnt get it back till january of the next year? did you forget about it? or is this when you had problems communicating with AA?

so your tank sat around some length of time BEFORE you filled it? is it possible that your fill nipple strut o-ring may have dried out somewhat between fillings since you waited long periods to fill it? i have seen tanks do that when just sitting around for long periods of time without being used/filled.

so truth be told, you dont know that the system was working properly or the fill nipple was not leaking right after it came back from AA?

the reason i asked the questions about what you told AA when you sent it in, is because you may or may not belive the way somethings are sent in or the way OTHER owners describe their issuses. you keep using those HUGE words (verbose) that it makes my head ache...lol. but you are not necessarily communicating well when you go over everyones heads with vocabulary.

I can personally guarantee you that AA did not "pretend" that your tank was fixed. i know every worker there and they would not do that, to anyone. it just isnt there modis operandi!

My final thought: incompetance does not deserve racial epithats (sp?) and degrading.

So, any questions i have posed are NOT an attack on you or your intelligence, just questions, that come to mind from experience. If you get this worked up over a $250 hpa tank, then you would proabably have a massive corronary if it was a $25,000 vehicle from the one of the big three manufacturers. TRUST ME I KNOW!!!!!!!

Shane-O

[SlartyBartFast]

Can't say I give Kicker much credibility or respect. His tone is rather borderline, and his attitude is definitely stuck up.

For someone that seems to promote the virtues of being a native American, he certainly converses like a Brit.

But the whole controversy about Niggardly?
http://www.adversity.net/special/niggardly.htm :D

Viva Ignorance!:D