My .68 Automag is firing 1,2,3,4, even 5 shots per pull, leaking down barrel and more

[paint magnet]

Alright, I've watched the Automag video many times and I am very familiar with the internals of the gun. Approximately one year ago this gun was sent in to AGD because it was not working when I received it in a trade. They replaced all orings, etc. and the gun shot amazingly well when I got it back. (2 stars remain on valve) I have kept it clean and well maintained and have always oiled it with KC Trouble Free after a day of play. I've taken it apart and inspected every single oring, spring, screw and part in the gun, cleaned them off, oiled and reassembled it and I cannot find anything wrong with any of them. I've tried using different HPA tanks, Co2 tanks, and even a 12 gram adapter on it, all with the same effect.

Here's the setup of the gun:
Level 7 .68 Automag
PFHL mainbody
Benchmark double trigger frame
polished AM/MM rail with vert. adapter (not being used)
Shocktech drop foward w/ CP asa

I'm running a macroline directly into the valve from the asa, and have also tried using braided SS line. That eliminates the gasline as the cause of the problem. I've tried two different mainbodies on the gun, again, no difference. I noticed some of the grip screws were kind of close to the sear, so I removed them completely, and the problem still persists.

When I pull the trigger very fast and all the way back, it fires like normal. Release the trigger very fast and most of the time it returns all the way. Pull the trigger slowly while looking at it, the gun will fire after about 1mm of pull (!!), make a chuffing sound and sometimes stick. When you let off of it, the trigger rod pops foward after about 10 seconds and the gun will fire again. I've pulled it lightly many times and it will double fire almost consistantly, and will fire after only 1mm of travel. Sometimes it will even fire twice on the pull, twice on the release and then bounce back and fire again! WTF is wrong with my mag!?! I've tried to call AGD but their freaking tech department always seems to be closed...I've been happy with their customer service in the past but I'm just about ready to sell this gun...at least when I had my cocker you could tell what was wrong with it :mad:

[paint magnet]

Sorry, forgot to add the part about leaking down the barrel. When you pull it moderately fast or slower, the gun will fire and then "chuff" and start leaking down the barrel, at which point the trigger rod will stick back and not return the trigger foward (eventually kicking it back after several seconds and causing the gun to fire again)

Inspection of the powertube oring revealed that it is in perfect condition, all on/off orings are in excellent condition as well as is the regulator seat and everything else. I thought the trigger rod might perhaps be bent but I couldn't find anything wrong with it.

[athomas]

Is it an older style on/off top? Is it in backwards? Check the sear for wear.

[paint magnet]

It's the new style on/off top. The sear shows a little wear, what you would expect from normal use, and the edge that catches the bolt is still nice and sharp.

The trigger rod/sear assy. is the only thing I can think of that might be causing this...even though I can't see any damage to any of the componants, should I just go ahead and replace it anyway?

[RRfireblade]

My guess is you need a longer on/off pin.

[paint magnet]

This is the on/off pin that came installed in it when it came back from AGD (and shot great for a while)...what length do you think I should try?

[RRfireblade]

Keep in mind this is just a guess based on some past experiences.

But I had one that acted very much like that,basically it would release the bolt before the on/off was completely shut and would sputter and double shoot like that during very slow trigger pulls.

If you have the means,I would measure your stock and see what it is.It should be ~.750, after you know that you can go from there.Unless you have access to another classic valved mag you can compare pins with.

Jay.

[paint magnet]

I don't have any calipers and no access to other mags. You think I should try ordering a .750 pin?

[RRfireblade]

That 'should' be the correct size.I just want to state again,that this is just a hunch on my part,even though it's only an $8 part I don't want you to be upset if tht doesn't fix it.;)

If there was some way you could verify the size,that would likely clear up the confusion.

I wish I could be more positive but's it's not easy to diagnose a condition caused by .001" or .002", sight unseen and over the net.:)

[paint magnet]

True, I will try to get my hands on a pair of calipers. But why would it have worked flawlessly for months before deciding to "die" on me?

[RRfireblade]

The pin can and will wear over time.In my experience it's THE main wear item in a mag.(besides o-rings)the bolt can take a heck of a beating and still work fine,the sear is tempered steel and probably the toughest part in the entire gun(despite people suggesting you check for a worn sear.;))

In a classic valve,it's a very fine line between everythings fine and hey what happened in the area of the on/off pin.

All I can say is double check all the other seals and o-rings and be sure there's plenty of oil in it,after that there's not much left I don't think.

[paint magnet]

Originally posted by RRfireblade
The pin can and will wear over time.In my experience it's THE main wear item in a mag.(besides o-rings)the bolt can take a heck of a beating and still work fine,the sear is tempered steel and probably the toughest part in the entire gun(despite people suggesting you check for a worn sear.;))

In a classic valve,it's a very fine line between everythings fine and hey what happened in the area of the on/off pin.

All I can say is double check all the other seals and o-rings and be sure there's plenty of oil in it,after that there's not much left I don't think.

The pin isn't tempered steel as well? I'm trying to think how many shots I've put through it since it's been back...maybe 20,000 max? (most of those are just screwing around dry firing) Probably more like 15k or so...I know that sounds like a lot but compared to my other guns it's virtually nothing. Of course, given the tolerance issues of the on/off pin, I can see how that might be affecting it. How many shots should an on/off pin last?

[RRfireblade]

I don't know. ;)

Quite a while probably,but it depends on how 'in spec' it was when new in respect to the assembled marker.That,as well as other factors have a connection to when 'wear' may show up as a problem.

That's why many people 'think' they're old R/T's were way more reactive than their new one or the new X valves.Over time,the pin wears and gets shorter upping the reactivity.It's one of the factors that contribute to the expected 'break in' of a Mag valve.

[the electrician]

first off, make sure all the parts are there and tight. make sure the steel sleeve that goes inside the rail and around the rear field strip screw is there.make sure both of the frame screws are tight.

still a problem? either the sear is not catching properly because somethings not right, or the on/off is not sealing properly for some reason. so, replace the on/off top double o-rings. you said they look fine, but they might not be sealing.

don't buy anything yet,except a repair kit if you need new o-rings and don't already have them.

try that first.

if it leaks down the barrel, then something is causing the seal of the power tube o-ring to leak. even the a power tube o-ring "looks" okay, it may be leaking. replace it with a fresh new o-ring and see if it still leaks.

sometimes, if the sear starts to wear in, and the power tube spacer is long, and just seals, this can cause a leak down the barrel.

another possible reason is the bolt spring. as it wears, it softens. this can cause strange velocity readings and a leak down the barrel because of the same reasons as the normal usage sear wear.

now you said the sear looks fine, and rrfireblade is right, it's the hardest piece of metal in the gun. so get a automag repair kit, and try replacing the power tube o-ring. if this doesn't help, try a new bolt spring.

really, this all sounds like the metal sleeve around the field strip screw is missing.

[paint magnet]

Originally posted by the electrician
first off, make sure all the parts are there and tight.check make sure the steel sleeve that goes inside the rail and around the rear field strip screw is therethe rail bushing? check..make sure both of the frame screws are tight.yup

still a problem?yup either the sear is not catching properly because somethings not right, or the on/off is not sealing properly for some reason.when trigger is held on, leak stops, so I think the on/off is good so, replace the on/off top double o-rings. you said they look fine, but they might not be sealing.the top two orings wouldn't have anything to do with the double firing would they?

don't buy anything yet,except a repair kit if you need new o-rings and don't already have them. I might as well spend 8 bucks and ship it to AGD to get it repaired for the cost of a star instead of 15 for a repair kit. I might end up doing that anyway though.

try that first.

if it leaks down the barrel, then something is causing the seal of the power tube o-ring to leak. even the a power tube o-ring "looks" okay, it may be leaking. replace it with a fresh new o-ring and see if it still leaks.it only leaks occasionally. Like if you gas up the gun, everything seals up fine

sometimes, if the sear starts to wear in, and the power tube spacer is long, and just seals, this can cause a leak down the barrel.sear still has a nice sharp edge. Should I try a new PT spacer? The one in there now says ".220" on it, which one should I try? (I don't have a set of spacers btw)

another possible reason is the bolt spring. as it wears, it softens. this can cause strange velocity readings and a leak down the barrel because of the same reasons as the normal usage sear wear. the bolt spring is still sitting above the tip of the bolt. It's getting kind of close, but it shouldn't be causing any trouble until it sits below the tip

now you said the sear looks fine, and rrfireblade is right, it's the hardest piece of metal in the gun. so get a automag repair kit, and try replacing the power tube o-ring. if this doesn't help, try a new bolt spring.

really, this all sounds like the metal sleeve around the field strip screw is missing.nope, the rail bushing is there.

[the electrician]

the top two o-rings are the seal poit. the o-ring in the center is the one theat seals off the air coming from the reg. if i does not seal it off, it can cause double firing.

maybe somebody shortened the pin a little?

[paint magnet]

I don't see how anyone could have messed with the pin...

In any case, I sent the gun in to AGD, I'll let them figure it out and when I get it back I'll post here with how they fixed it.