Viking > Mag Reasons...Please Help

[pputkowski]

Ok guys, I'm having some trouble finding rock solid reasons that make sense on why a Viking is better than an all ULE X-Valved mech mag. Even the most blunt reasons, but I am mostly looking for performance and durability reasons. Thanks, I'll describe the story later...

[jdev]

for starters, lets just say that both are excellent markers.

reasons I think that my vike is better than said described mag:

break beam eye system. with was boards, eyes, yadda yadda yadda. I like to know that its more or less impossible to chop, even if I had something similar to level 10 in my marker.

performance and durability. well, there have been videos done that show a viking cycling at 45 CPS. with the SCM that comes stock on all 04's now, you will be able to reach 45 CPS with virtually no shootdown, same as mags, except with mags, there is no shootdown. also, i think http://pbnation.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=437102 proves that vikings are just as durable as mags. they also have the same great customer service as well. (sans that one case if someone goes and digs it up. ive had nothing but positive experiences with AKA)

heres where vikings are seperated from mags... efficiency. on a 68/45, you can get a full case of paint without having to refill. facing facts, mags are gas hogs. but, they are still great markers. people look for more efficiency out of their tanks. they dont want to have to be filling up every few shots.

adjustable settings. which is something many dont like, which, fortunately, is why was boards contain tourney lock modes. i wish more people would use this, but dont. with the was boards, you can adjust your dwell and debounce on your own. also, change eye modes.

just a few reasons my primary is a viking. however, dont think I am against mags by any stretch.. I am working on getting an emag :)

[Lohman446]

There comes a point where any number of factors (vortex shedding, paintball inconsistancies) that somehow effect the flight of the paintball once it leaves the gun (don't ask me to explain it, god if I know but I trust people smarter than me who have told me this is so). So, once you have reached a certain level, you are not going to get any more accurate. I beleive that most "top end" guns have reached this point.

You can only pull the trigger so fast, the gun needs to be able to recharge in that amount of time and fire another shot. I beleive (without proof) that most top end gunds have reached this point.

That leaves us with trigger feel. This is a personal preference issue.. I really really like the trigger pull on my e-mag, some like the Vikings better, some like whatever gun better. Fine...

Weight: Again I think your reaching the point that lowering the weight is no longer a benefit. This point is easily debated, and there are a number of reasons why it may or may not be true. Functionally to me though my warped e-mag (ULE and what not) that when loaded weighs at least two pounds more than my mechnical ULE mag does very very little to effect my game play.

Durability - you can probably guess where I stand on this issue

Company support - if we're discussing AGD and AKA I think AGD has a proven track record and will be here for some time into the future. It is not enough to be good at making good things (BOA barrels comes to mind) you also have to be good at positioning your business for changes. I don't know if AKA is, I beleive AGD is. But then again, AGD is going out of business tomorrow :rolleyes:

BTW, sorry to not answer your question.

[Butterfingers]

Originally posted by joey d
for starters, lets just say that both are excellent markers.


performance and durability. well, there have been videos done that show a viking cycling at 45 CPS. with the SCM that comes stock on all 04's now, you will be able to reach 45 CPS with virtually no shootdown, same as mags, except with mags, there is no shootdown. also, i think http://pbnation.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=437102 proves that vikings are just as durable as mags. they also have the same great customer service as well. (sans that one case if someone goes and digs it up. ive had nothing but positive experiences with AKA)



You do realize that the viking cycling at 45 CPS is most likely bouncing back and forth on its own blast of air and not completing full cycles... It cycles faster when you reduce the LPR pressure because it isnt completing the full cycle. And when you reduce the pressure the cycle gets shorter and shorter hence the impression that it is faster.

Do you have proof of no shootdown? AGD has graphs that chart the recharge rate. The sidewinder dosent even come close. If the viking were able to do 45 cps the balls would just roll out of the barrel.

[Chubby McFatso]

If by "performance" you mean speed the Viking will trash it. Unless you get the Mech Mag shooting in run-away (which isn't recommended due to sear damage)a Mech Mag won't even come close. If by "perfomance" you mean consistency they both are very consistent after the break-in period.

As far as durability.......well they are both rock solid guns. I doubt there are many if any markers out there that are more reliable and durable than either the Viking/Excal or the RtPro/Emag.

No offence, but your kind of comparing apples and oranges here. There's a significant difference between a mechanical Mag and a Viking or any electro for that matter.

[Butterfingers]

Prove it...

http://paintball.butters.org

25bps WITH PAINT... I havent seen a viking come close...

Like tom said dry firing is like jacking up your honda civic putting it in fifth gear and saying "look ma 180 MPH"

[Lohman446]

20, 25, 5 million - doesnt matter, I can't pull it. And I highly doubt all but a select few can for more than one or two shots.

[pputkowski]

Guys, guys...calm down.

Just need some reasons...that's all, lol

[Chubby McFatso]

Just need some reasons...that's all, lol

Well, do you want to rip paint fairly fast or insanely fast? Do you want absolutely no shootdown or slight shootdown that is not noticeable at all? How about some insight here? Your talking about a mech vs. an elecro.....

[Lohman446]

Sorry.. if that sounded flaming, it wasn't. I still beleive that there is very little that seperates the top of the line guns at least in functional use. So.. I think you would be hard pressed to find why the viking is better than teh e-mag. The reason I own an e-mag and not something else, frankly is TK.

YOur hard pressed to find valid reasons why one gun is better than the other, at least in functional performance. Though most people (unscientific survey) like the feel of the viking trigger more the e-mag is virtually infinitely adjustable as well I think they both are really....


EDIT
Just ignore some of my stupidity, it happens.

And if I would have read your post closer (thought it said X-mag) here they are. Anti-chop eye is quicker than level 10 in reality. The Viking trigger is adjustable. Efficiency on the Viking is better if thats a concern.

Please note, I only considered hte upsides of the viking and not the downsides

[pputkowski]

Originally posted by Lohman446
So.. I think you would be hard pressed to find why the viking is better than teh e-mag.


I'm not talking about an emag, i'm talking about a ULE Mech Mag w/X valve

[Lohman446]

So I'm an idiot, and FYI I was editing before you posted this... sorry

[pputkowski]

Originally posted by Lohman446
Anti-chop eye is quicker than level 10 in reality. The Viking trigger is adjustable. Efficiency on the Viking is better if thats a concern.


Thank-you! This is the kind of blunt stuff I am talking about, any more?

[LeatherPants]

Also depends what you play. RT mags will not pass chrono tests at NPPL type events. If that doesn't matter to you then thats another thing to look at.

My friend has an X Mag and yes I do believe it can shoot faster than the way I have my Viking set up. BUT if i put it on debounce 1 and set it up for bouncy bouncy that's another story. But it all comes down to are you a shooter or a bouncer....

Both E/X mags are great. I play back so thats why I shoot a Viking. I set all my marker up for efficiency. Basically this past weekend with a compressor only filling to 3k on my 68ci I was still getting over 7 pods and a hopper.

I like both markers but FOR ME the Viking is the better marker.

[Ov3rmind]

I like both guns, so let me cut through the crap for you.

Speed - Yes, the Mag will cycle faster with no shootdown. Does this really matter? No. Both are capable of cycling very fast, and there's no way you will even slightly notice what miniscule amount of shootdown is on a Viking. That being said, 90% of paintball players will be able to shoot a Viking faster than any mech Mag due to trigger feel (until Nicad's trigger comes out). That's just the way it is folks.

Weight - An all ULE mech Mag and an 04 Viking are both fairly light, I doubt you would notice a difference.

Size - Mag is smaller, end of discussion.

Consistency - Both can be tuned to get the best efficiency possible.

Anti-Chop mechanisms - People are very divided on this. The lvl 10 makes chops mechanically impossible in 99.99% of situations. The Viking's break beam eye should provide the same protection. Some prefer a mechanical anti-chop system due to less electronics. I prefer an eye because it keeps the mechanical operation simple and you don't have to worry about your gun partially cycling as it pinches the ball.

Reliability - As far as electros go, the Viking is extremely reliable. However, the bottomline is that it is an electro. The introduction of WAS also seems to have given it some minor (but easily fixable) FSDO problems. The Mag is very reliable, but used to be more so. Since the introduction of ULT and Lvl 10, people have been causing their guns some problems trying to set them up. Both use very strong aluminum, but the Viking's anodizing is much harder to scratch.

Customer service - Both are great companies. I have heard of some very isolated incidents of crappy AKA service, but the general consensus is that they are an excellent company to deal with.

Kick - When properly set up, both have very little.

Efficiency - A Viking can shoot much deeper into a tank. Viking wins, no contest.

[can'tthink of1]

Go on the feel of the marker in you hands. Whichever one you like the feel of more (liek the trigger frame position, angle, trigger) go with that one.

[ubooze]

Basically, shoot both guns. While one gun may be better in one catagory, the other is better in another. It all comes down to what YOU want. You have to shoot both and get a feel for them. And quite frankly, it will all come down to being "Do I want an electro or mech?" That it.

That comment about jacking a Civic in the air.... wasn't AGD always the one claiming to have the fastest cycling gun? Meh, doesn't matter. If I had a loader fast enough to PROVE to you I can shoot 25 bps, you still wouldn't believe me. But if I can get a Victory board, I think I can provide some evidence.

And second, a mech Mag without retro will have trouble keeping up with a Vik. UNLESS you get that hAIR trigger, which nicad claims can do 20.4(right?). Even then, I think a Vik will still have an edge, but thats all up to you.

I really hate these gun A vs. gun B threads, but quite frankly, I cannot sit here and watch as everyone calls AKA guns inferior. Honesty, I wonder how many of those people even tried the gun.

[Butterfingers]

Never said they were inferior... just providing objective evidence.

[No sKiLLz]

Originally posted by LeatherPants
Both E/X mags are great. I play back so thats why I shoot a Viking. I set all my marker up for efficiency. Basically this past weekend with a compressor only filling to 3k on my 68ci I was still getting over 7 pods and a hopper.

What Leatherpants fails to mention is that the game wasn't over yet by the time his efficiency was determined.:)

[Lohman446]

Not sure.. but seems how were discussing mechanical

Is it even possible to shortstroke a Viking?

This to me is the one thing that bothers me about mechanical mags.

[ubooze]

No, its electronic, but one problem that may occur is, and it does happen to me, is that your devounce setting may be too high and will no read every pull. I have had my debounce at 25 out of 25, and as I try to walk, the gun would only shoot every 3-4 shots, depending on how fast or short trigger pull is. Then again, that probably because I have the most furious fingers in the Midwest :eek: :p
But at lower settings, ranging from 5 to 10 or so, I can walk like a maniac, but raking induces bounces. I know that I can achieve some balance, but I am too lazy.

Boy am I tired....

[Skoad]

Comparing mech to electro makes no sense.

[Jon/xpm]

pputkowski-nelson or was board viking?
I would suggest to get a viking since its electro

The was board vikings will probably be to high for the
range your looking for(but i dont know how much your willing to spend i am only guessing)
Vikings shoot great with nelson boards, the was boards just gave it some options and some other features but the gun was great before the was board

[Ov3rmind]

Originally posted by ubooze
No, its electronic, but one problem that may occur is, and it does happen to me, is that your devounce setting may be too high and will no read every pull. I have had my debounce at 25 out of 25, and as I try to walk, the gun would only shoot every 3-4 shots, depending on how fast or short trigger pull is. Then again, that probably because I have the most furious fingers in the Midwest :eek: :p
But at lower settings, ranging from 5 to 10 or so, I can walk like a maniac, but raking induces bounces. I know that I can achieve some balance, but I am too lazy.
The solution to this is easy, set your debounce. It's not a very hard thing to do (if you can pull a trigger and watch an LED light blink, you're A OK).

[pputkowski]

This is not a help me decide over Gun A over Gun B or a which should I buy.

Did I ever say that I am buying one of the two guns?

I am only looking for differences between the two guns.

So far, the only ones that have contributed are Lohman, joey d, and Ov3rmind.

Sorry if I'm being rude but I hate when pple hi-jack threads...

[RRfireblade]

Originally posted by pputkowski
I am only looking for differences between the two guns.



I think the differences are pretty clear overall.

Mechanical versus Electro right off the bat.

Overall,electro wins IMO.

Higher and easier to reach ROF.
No chance of short stroking.
Less tuning and tweeking for max performance.

Everthing else is basically equal.
Consistancy
Maintenance
Reliability
Weight
Anti chop system

After that you have basically 3 main differences left,

Efficiency,Vike kills the Mag.
Profile,Mag kills the Vike.
User available customization,Mag kills there too.

After that your down to Company v. Company

I'm going with AGD simply because they seem to ALWAYS go the extra mile get it down for the customer.While AKA seems very good as a whole there's been more than a few documented cases of them dropping the ball or passing the buck. Only offering warranty on "thier" parts of the marker despite the fact that that they sell it as a complete unit and shifting the remaining responsibility on outside vendors is quite laughable IMO and I'm suprised AKA gets away with it so often.

So that's my .02

[GT]

apples and oranges


500 v. 1k.

[Lohman446]

The man is not asking for a comparison, he is asking for what strong points a viking has over a mechanical mag, not for an even comparison, he likely knows the strengths of teh mag.

It looks to me, the viking has over a mechanical mag - realistic things, not "low pressure" hype
1) Efficiency
2) More adjustable trigger
3) ACE (faster than LX)
4) No short stroking
5) Don't expect as much crap from the chrono judges (not judging if thsi is right or not, it just is)
6) Can shoot it faster (generally)

If you want hype things
Low pressure (who cares)
Fast (god knows if its useable)
AKA
Will be drooled on at field