Worr bought by K2

[Prairie]

Second company now to be bought by K2...

http://www.flagpull.com/news.php?extend.243

"K2 it has acquired the assets of Worr Game Products and Innovative Products, both privately held companies. Worr Game Products is a leader in the manufacture of premium paintball markers incorporating its proprietary Autococker® technology. K2 anticipates that Worr will provide a platform for further growth in the premium marker segment, and will be highly complementary to K2's other paintball businesses including its existing premium JT brand. Worr and JT will also benefit from common distribution channels."

[Miscue]

:eek: .....

[TheTramp]

Holy sheep poop!

[thei3ug]

you know, for YEARS there's been april fools jokes, random rumors that spread like wildfire about BE buying out WDP/WGP/AGD..

and jeebus, am I reading this right?

This is really surreal.

http://biz.yahoo.com/rc/040420/retail_k2_2.html

[personman]

Haha cockers are now officially a 'wal-mart gun' :D
;)

[nuclear zombie]

Haha cockers are now officially a 'wal-mart gun' :D
;)
yeah which means they will sell millions of them .

the news is on worr's site as well. http://www.armyoforr.com/news.html

[cledford]

Hmmm, Not a good move on K2's part - but awsome for Bud. I just think Cockers are WAY to complicated (and easy to screw up) to be Walmart guns. I'm not saying anything bad about them - I own 2 - but don't see the cocker as a platform that will do well in the mass market enviroment.

It'll be interesting to see how this all works out.

Anyhow, best regards to Bud Orr - I'm sure it was a great deal for him.

-Calvin

[Major Jam]

Holy crap! I'll bet Bud held out for a pretty penny on that one.

[manike]

I believe Bud has been wanting to get out for a while to work on his Custom Motorcycles.

Can't wait to find out what they paid for WGP.

[logamus]

wow, isnt that an intresting turn. i have a feeling though that we wont be seeing cockers in walmarts anytime soon though.

[WickeDKlowN]

:eek: :eek: :eek:

That's insane, I wonder if WGP's quality will go down the toilet now? Like JT and VL's did

[Prairie]

The purchase price for the two transactions consisted of a combination of K2 stock, cash, and the pay-off of certain debt. On an annualized run-rate, total sales for the two acquired companies are estimated at approximately $25 million in the next 12 months. The transactions are expected to be EPS neutral in 2004 and accretive to

[Jackel411]

Wow... cool.. I have more fodder for squids with cockers... " Hey.. You have a brass eagle cocker "

Soon to come.. the all plastic cocker hehe..

[AcemanPB]

Hmmm, Not a good move on K2's part - but awsome for Bud. I just think Cockers are WAY to complicated (and easy to screw up) to be Walmart guns. I'm not saying anything bad about them - I own 2 - but don't see the cocker as a platform that will do well in the mass market enviroment.

It'll be interesting to see how this all works out.

Anyhow, best regards to Bud Orr - I'm sure it was a great deal for him.

-Calvin

My thoughts exactly

[Major Jam]

You know, Bud Orr and Tom Kaye have been icons for me in paintball.

I wonder if AGD is next on the K2 acquisition list? ;)

Everything is for sale for a price. :)

[spantol]

This would be roughly equivalent to making fun of someone for having a Mercury V12 Vanquish.


Wow... cool.. I have more fodder for squids with cockers... " Hey.. You have a brass eagle cocker "

Soon to come.. the all plastic cocker hehe..

[AGD]

Humm.... interesting, this is news to me too. Well lets see, gun with lots of parts, needs service, can sell lots of upgrades and has no patents. Give it to BE so they can do what? Make it cheaper and cut the service?

Remember, when they bought JT they said the product would not be sold in Wall Mart.....

The last of the cowboys,

AGD

[DiRTyBuNNy]

wow...now if this didn't just come out of left field...good job K2...guess I better start buying some stock now...who better to b*slap SP into submission?

[spantol]

I don't think it's a matter of "giving [WGP] to BE" so much as it's supplementing BE with WGP. With BE, K2 gained a foothold in the low-end paintball market, and BE's existing distribution channels. With WGP, K2 has gained a mid-to-high end line of products and the brand equity and loyalty associated with it.

Look for BE stuff to be sold in your local X-Mart, and WGP stuff to be sold in specialty stores. Two distinct market segments, two distinct brands.




Humm.... interesting, this is news to me too. Well lets see, gun with lots of parts, needs service, can sell lots of upgrades and has no patents. Give it to BE so they can do what? Make it cheaper and cut the service?

Remember, when they bought JT they said the product would not be sold in Wall Mart.....

The last of the cowboys,

AGD

[DiRTyBuNNy]

So...who wants to start the AGD bought by K2 rumor now? (they can cover all the markets...including Tom's military work)

[deadeye9]

Maybe K2 has already approached AGD about selling. Maybe AGD was expecting K2 to buy AGD and was surprised when K2 bought WGP instead.

[Jackel411]

Trust me my jokeing is just... work in a store... kid buy cockers of the net and cant work them.. I spend most of my day flipping bolts around hehe....

And I own a cocker too ;)

[bleachit]

Haha cockers are now officially a 'wal-mart gun' :D
;)

w00t, its now just a matter of time before I start getting 10% off cockers at wally world.. I guess this may be one reason to keep working at walmart ;)

[milomag]

omg, this is very interesting

[barrel break]

well, guys, if you read the announcement, they say "premium" guns, meaning high-end, i think they will probably keep WGP ona leash, but generally give free reign, they are just here to get a piece of the pie, otherwise, this is a sign of the apocalypse.....

Man, glad i bought my cocker when i did....

[Dubstar112]

Im starting to distrust everyone in the paintball industry.

I wonder if AGD would ever sell out over a money? Its not the right question to ask, but c'mon now . . . We have to be prepared to expect the unexpected?

[CodeMA]

wow... cant really say I EVER saw this comeing...


mabey it will turn out to be a good thing in the end however...mabey....


...ok so we can atleast HOPE right?

[GT]

[QUOTE=manike] I believe Bud has been wanting to get out for a while to work on his Custom Motorcycles.
[QUOTE]

Maybe you can clear this up,
but i thought that bud ran the machine shop that supplied WGP with cockers? almost like selling product from one company to another while they have the same owner?

So I guess the advantage is Bud gets to keep his infrustructure, machine shop, and sell all of WGP's holdings? Is bud still making cockers and now just selling them to WGP/K2/BE?


Is this the worlds saving grace to SP?

[atm743]

I wonder if AGD is next on the K2 acquisition list? ;)

Everything is for sale for a price. :)

i hope that agd is going to be bought off by anyone. i have a feeling because they are stopping the production of flatlines e-mags x-mags. i have a bad feeling that something eals will go to. you see all of the smart parts desighs for all of the impys ??

http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/261/thenewrat.jpg
i found that on
http://www.e-paintballoutlet.com/

ohhh i hate smartparts. they jest love takeing other peoples ideas.

[GT]

Thunder Cats Shocker?


WTF does this have to do with the WGP?

[atm743]

well read my post.i said that i hope that smart parts dosent run agd out of buissness but i dout that that will ever happen

[Butterfingers]

Nothing alot of Red loctite or A bit Mr. Lincoln wont fix...

I see cockers being very assembly line ish and non adjustable...



Hmmm, Not a good move on K2's part - but awsome for Bud. I just think Cockers are WAY to complicated (and easy to screw up) to be Walmart guns. I'm not saying anything bad about them - I own 2 - but don't see the cocker as a platform that will do well in the mass market enviroment.

It'll be interesting to see how this all works out.

Anyhow, best regards to Bud Orr - I'm sure it was a great deal for him.

-Calvin

[WARPED1]

K2 owns BE too(which owns JT and VL too.) Hope Worr doesn't turn crappy!

[Banshee23]

i hope that agd is going to be bought off by anyone. i have a feeling because they are stopping the production of flatlines e-mags x-mags. i have a bad feeling that something eals will go to. you see all of the smart parts desighs for all of the impys ??

ohhh i hate smartparts. they jest love takeing other peoples ideas.

Ummmm that's a shocker, not an Imp.

[InexactMelissa]

In having a conversation with my boyfriend, he brought up an interesting point: K2 - registered on the NYSE, would certainly have more than enought money and power to deal with any nastiness that may be flung at them by a certain patent manipulating company...hmm, maybe this is a bit of strategy? If nothing else, I'm sure Bud got to hang up his hat with a nifty pocketfull of change without selling out to a Gardener.

[Ov3rmind]

In having a conversation with my boyfriend, he brought up an interesting point: K2 - registered on the NYSE, would certainly have more than enought money and power to deal with any nastiness that may be flung at them by a certain patent manipulating company...hmm, maybe this is a bit of strategy? If nothing else, I'm sure Bud got to hang up his hat with a nifty pocketfull of change without selling out to a Gardener.
Hm, didn't even think about that. Maybe this could be the super power that puts SP in it's place.

[cledford]

In having a conversation with my boyfriend, he brought up an interesting point: K2 - registered on the NYSE, would certainly have more than enought money and power to deal with any nastiness that may be flung at them by a certain patent manipulating company...hmm, maybe this is a bit of strategy? If nothing else, I'm sure Bud got to hang up his hat with a nifty pocketfull of change without selling out to a Gardener.

Well, with all deference to Bud and his contributions to the sport - I thought he and Planet Eclipse had already sold out to SP?

I know for certain that Planet did - and could have sworn that I heard that WORR did as well.

-Calvin

[AcemanPB]

Actually, the more I think about it the sweeter the deal is for Bud. Worr was lossing alot of money to knock off cockers lately. So they just kind of dumped their problems onto K2. And since Worr now has the stigma of being a Wally World special, I think we will see a huge increase in sales from the knock off cockers.

[GT]

Worr was lossing alot of money to knock off cockers lately.
you are going to need some data to back that up. I seriously doubt Bud was sweating other cocker "brands"

[spantol]

How, exactly, did Worr all of a sudden gain the stigma of being a Wally World special?

BE had an established presence in WalMart long before the K2 buyout. That presence would have grown whether or not K2 had entered the picture. Brass Eagle did not buy WGP; K2 did. There's no reason to assume that WGP products will start showing up in WalMart, or that quality will decline.

K2 will position the two brands differently. To do otherwise would be foolish.


And since Worr now has the stigma of being a Wally World special, I think we will see a huge increase in sales from the knock off cockers.

[AcemanPB]

How, exactly, did Worr all of a sudden gain the stigma of being a Wally World special?

BE had an established presence in WalMart long before the K2 buyout. That presence would have grown whether or not K2 had entered the picture. There's no reason to assume that WGP products will start showing up in WalMart, or that quality will decline.

K2 will position the two brands differently. To do otherwise would be foolish.


I never said that WGP would end up in wal-mart, however to many people it give it that "stigma" anyways. Just read some of the post made by other people here and on other message boards. Even though these assumptions aren't very logical or accurate, it's still less cockers WGP will sell. I'm just saying that WGP will probably take a hit in sales, considering the fact that they probably just lost alot of their customer loyalty.


And no, I'm not sure if WGP was sweating the competition from knock-off cockers. I do know however that I see them all over the place. At my field there are way more knock-off cockers than WGP cockers now. I think we can all agree that the introduction of these knock-off's certinally didn't help WGP's sells.

[InexactMelissa]

How, exactly, did Worr all of a sudden gain the stigma of being a Wally World special?

BE had an established presence in WalMart long before the K2 buyout. That presence would have grown whether or not K2 had entered the picture. Brass Eagle did not buy WGP; K2 did. There's no reason to assume that WGP products will start showing up in WalMart, or that quality will decline.

K2 will position the two brands differently. To do otherwise would be foolish.

While I agree that it would be foolish to not position the brands differently (after all, the press release implies that the WGP purchase was intended to target the higher end of the market), BE has apparently been kicking sales butt recently. From the K2 1st quarter report: "In a seasonally slow quarter, Brass Eagle generated a significant sales increase of 59% to total sales of $21.3 million compared to the first quarter of 2003 due to strong demand in all major distribution channels" and I read this to mean that WalMart is running out of stock and increasing their orders by 59%, even in winter.

If you're interested, here's the complete report: NYSE info and K2 1Q2004 report (http://www.nyse.com/marketinfo/p1020656068262.html?displayPage=http%3A//www.nyse.com/cgi-bin/ny_quote%3Fsym%3Dkto)

[spantol]

All that WGP needs to do to quell this brewing "stigma" is to issue a press release reiterating their commitment to their customers and to the quality of their products, and wait awhile. The announcement's been out for only a few hours--the average paintballer's attention span isn't much longer. It'll pass.


I never said that WGP would end up in wal-mart, however to many people it give it that "stigma" anyways. Just read some of the post made by other people here and on other message boards. Even though these assumptions aren't very logical or accurate, it's still less cockers WGP will sell. I'm just saying that WGP will probably take a hit in sales, considering the fact that they probably just lost alot of their customer loyalty.

[JEDI]

[QUOTE=Dubstar112]Im starting to distrust everyone in the paintball industry.

QUOTE]
This is really troubling... because its exactly where I'm at.


Quote - "Maybe K2 has already approached AGD about selling. Maybe AGD was expecting K2 to buy AGD and was surprised when K2 bought WGP instead."

Haha, I read this and went, "Boo Yah!!!" :D

[mrhooie]

I posted this on PBall Canada and thought I'd add it here too

-Well, as long as I remember, K2 has made quality products. I've used their skis, snowboards and roller blades.

This is not a bad thing, players. But a step forward

Everyone wanted to know what the next big leap for Paintball is? Guess what - it's happening now

As far as Brass Eagle goes. I don't think they degraded the JT line, they did have a bad run of 12 revies though

[DiRTyBuNNy]

Thunder Cats Shocker?


WTF does this have to do with the WGP?

Rat Shocker, actually...pretty nasty....isn't it?

[Evil1]

As bad as this new aquisition kind of is, I am kind of excited to see what wal mart has planned for the autococker. My guess is that they will be the same but with real low grade materials used for production.

[FooTemps]

It's funny how everyone makes the assumption that because BE makes crappy stuff... K2 must have low quality stuff too. I've used their skis and they're absolutely great. Quality. BE has been getting better since K2 bought them. What will that mean for WGP? who knows... but I could very well be better for the paintball community.

[Jack & Coke]

...I wonder if AGD is next on the K2 acquisition list?



Doubt it.

K2 got WGP because the "autococker" = $$$

The only thing AGD has in common with WGP is that they both make a good quality gun that shoots paintballs. That's not enough in the eyes of a big dawg like K2. They want sales!

The differences between AGD and WGP (which is why I doubt K2 will acquire AGD) are:

Every PB store sells autocockers. Not every pb store sells automags.

At almost every field, cockers are ubiquitous, mags are rare.

In terms of yearly product sales (potential units sales), autococker appears strong and plentiful. Whereas automag appears weak and questionable.

Sure the mag is a good quality gun, but that's not enough... you need to have good name recognition (marketing and demand) and high volume of sales in order for a big company to want to aquire you.

[tjmpaintball06]

automags are weak... that hurts. my emag will own a autococker any day.

[Python14]

Holy cow. This comes as a real shock. I mean, WGP...Walmart? Walmart Games Products?

I'm scared to see what will happen. All K2 needs now is loader manufacturer and they've got a whole market.

[thecavemankevin]

Doubt it.

K2 got WGP because the "autococker" = $$$

The only thing AGD has in common with WGP is that they both make a good quality gun that shoots paintballs. That's not enough in the eyes of a big dawg like K2. They want sales!

The differences between AGD and WGP (which is why I doubt K2 will acquire AGD) are:

Every PB store sells autocockers. Not every pb store sells automags.

At almost every field, cockers are ubiquitous, mags are rare.

In terms of yearly product sales (potential units sales), autococker appears strong and plentiful. Whereas automag appears weak and questionable.

Sure the mag is a good quality gun, but that's not enough... you need to have good name recognition (marketing and demand) and high volume of sales in order for a big company to want to aquire you.

well not only that but AGD is TK, AGD without TK isn't worth much. WGP on the other hand can easily be taken over by the current paintball personel at BE and made to still work without Bud.

i would be blown away if AGD sold out to anyone, especially BE. I just don't see them, or really anyone for that matter haveing the technical expertise to be able to handle AGD.

Really the only other company (paintball related) that i could think of that could handle AGD would be maybe Dye.

[thecavemankevin]

Holy cow. This comes as a real shock. I mean, WGP...Walmart? Walmart Games Products?

I'm scared to see what will happen. All K2 needs now is loader manufacturer and they've got a whole market.

ummm....K2 ownes Brass Eagle, which ownes both JT and Viewloader. Viewloader=most of the market for loaders and revvies (you know...the eggo...??).

[ogre55]

Well, with all deference to Bud and his contributions to the sport - I thought he and Planet Eclipse had already sold out to SP?

I know for certain that Planet did - and could have sworn that I heard that WORR did as well.

-Calvin

WGP had no reason to deal with SP. The Worr-Blade, is just an E-Blade with some minor cosmetic differences. While I do not know the details of the deal between Eclipse and WGP as far as I know it had nothing whatsoever to do with one company buying the other. As far as I know, WGP first "endorsed" the e-blade as the e-cocker upgrade of choice and brought out the e-orracle. Then, the next season, they introduced the worr-blade and a few more e-cockers, but all using the basic e-blade.

However, WGP by itself, had no reason to fear SP as they never produced an e-gun, as far as I know.

Ogre

[spantol]

Okay, one more time, from the top.

K2 owns Brass Eagle, which has a distribution relationship with WalMart.

K2 just bought WGP, and has indicated that WGP and Brass Eagle will operate independently, with WGP positioned as a high-end alternative to the BE products. Indeed, the press release didn't even mention BE as anything other than a footnote.

What it did say was that JT and WGP will benefit from common distribution channels. It's quite clear that they're speaking of the higher-end JT stuff--the high-end clothing, the Quadra line of markers, the non-Alpha masks, etc.; in short, the stuff you won't find at WalMart.

How does one read that, and infer that there will be any sort of relationship between WalMart and WGP, or that the quality of WGP goods will automatically decline?




As bad as this new aquisition kind of is, I am kind of excited to see what wal mart has planned for the autococker. My guess is that they will be the same but with real low grade materials used for production.


Holy cow. This comes as a real shock. I mean, WGP...Walmart? Walmart Games Products?

I'm scared to see what will happen. All K2 needs now is loader manufacturer and they've got a whole market.

[punkncat]

This will make me reconsider the future purchase of any cockers......

[cledford]

WGP had no reason to deal with SP. The Worr-Blade, is just an E-Blade with some minor cosmetic differences. While I do not know the details of the deal between Eclipse and WGP as far as I know it had nothing whatsoever to do with one company buying the other. As far as I know, WGP first "endorsed" the e-blade as the e-cocker upgrade of choice and brought out the e-orracle. Then, the next season, they introduced the worr-blade and a few more e-cockers, but all using the basic e-blade.

However, WGP by itself, had no reason to fear SP as they never produced an e-gun, as far as I know.

Ogre

Check this out:

http://www.planeteclipse.com/site/eNews.asp?newsID=45

In one of the Planet threads I saw someone post that WGP signed the same agreement. I'll admit it's hearsay, but seems possible.

-Calvin

[Deep Sixx]

Okay, one more time, from the top.

K2 owns Brass Eagle, which has a distribution relationship with WalMart.

K2 just bought WGP, and has indicated that WGP and Brass Eagle will operate independently, with WGP positioned as a high-end alternative to the BE products. Indeed, the press release didn't even mention BE as anything other than a footnote.

What it did say was that JT and WGP will benefit from common distribution channels. It's quite clear that they're speaking of the higher-end JT stuff--the high-end clothing, the Quadra line of markers, the non-Alpha masks, etc.; in short, the stuff you won't find at WalMart.

How does one read that, and infer that there will be any sort of relationship between WalMart and WGP, or that the quality of WGP goods will automatically decline?

FINALLY! Someone who actually reads things before they comment.

To the rest of you... BE had nothing to do with any of this. BE didn't buy anyone or anything. K2 did. Simple as that. Quit whining about BE, you're only showing your ignorance.

It's like calling Aston Martin's garbage just because Mazda makes some low-end crap cars.

sixx

[PissedGodzilla]

My opinion is that paintball as a whole might be the better for it. Does everybody else think that Bud Orr is leaving the company, because I sure don't.
I don't think it will change the guns at all, but have them distributed to a wider variety of places. Just my 2 cents

[ogre55]

Check this out:

http://www.planeteclipse.com/site/eNews.asp?newsID=45

In one of the Planet threads I saw someone post that WGP signed the same agreement. I'll admit it's hearsay, but seems possible.

-Calvin

The only thing on that link was the press release regarding Planet Eclipse signing with SP, no mention of WGP.

However if the press release is correct then the license allows Planet to "make, sell, offer for sale, and distribute products covered by Smart Parts’ electronic paintball gun patents." Thus if Planet is selling E-Blades or Worr- Blades to WGP, WGP has no reason to deal with SP. If WGP developed their own E-Cocker system then they would have to think about how SP fits into the equation.

I also did a google search for any agreement that SP may have with WGP and did not find anything.

Ogre

[Plazmic]

I cannot see how this is a bad thing. It's interesting, to be sure, but not necessarily bad by any means. K2 makes top notch products for winter sports. You will see K2 at top end winter sports competitions all the time. Why would K2 owning a top end marker company cause that company to decline? All I see is a sports company rounding out its product line with a high-end product.

Look at it this way: Nissan makes the Sentra. Not a bad car, but very plastic and kinda slow unless you drop some serious money into it. Nissan also makes the Infinity G35 which is neither plastic nor slow. The Infinity line is top-end for Nissan, like the WGP line will be top-end for K2's paintball division.

[Plazmic]

Personally, I'd much rather see more AGD products out there rather than more WGP products, but I don't want to see any AGD products that Tom Kaye has not been involved in. Without TK, AGD is nothing.

Hey Tom...I actually have heard rumors that you want out. If you are going to leave, please let us know...

...and maybe sell us all your product stock at a nice discount while you're at it. :D I don't want to buy any Mag stuff from some superpower. I prefer the smaller company that builds a bad-*** product.

[1stdeadeye]

Okay, one more time, from the top.

K2 owns Brass Eagle, which has a distribution relationship with WalMart.

K2 just bought WGP, and has indicated that WGP and Brass Eagle will operate independently, with WGP positioned as a high-end alternative to the BE products. Indeed, the press release didn't even mention BE as anything other than a footnote.

What it did say was that JT and WGP will benefit from common distribution channels. It's quite clear that they're speaking of the higher-end JT stuff--the high-end clothing, the Quadra line of markers, the non-Alpha masks, etc.; in short, the stuff you won't find at WalMart.

How does one read that, and infer that there will be any sort of relationship between WalMart and WGP, or that the quality of WGP goods will automatically decline?

Hey guess what, this happens everyday in the business world. Who says WGP will suffer? They won't! Daimler makes $10,000 Dodge Neons and $350,000 Maybachs. Ford makes a $10,000 Focus and a $250,000 Aston Martin. Many large companies have differentiated sales brands to reach multiple segments of the market. This is finally reaching paintball. We will have a company that makes high and low end markers, versus the Low End (Kingman, Tippman, etc...), Mid Level (ICD, AGD[with just the RT PRO and Tach One now], etc...., and High end (BLAST, WDP, Smart Parts).

Paintball is becoming more like the real business world!

[spantol]

This is finally reaching paintball. We will have a company that makes high and low end markers, versus the Low End (Kingman, Tippman, etc...), Mid Level (ICD, AGD[with just the RT PRO and Tach One now], etc...., and High end (BLAST, WDP, Smart Parts).

Paintball is becoming more like the real business world!

National's been doing brand/market pairing for awhile now, with their plethora of Spyder clones on the low-end, and bevy of Intimidators on the high-end. More recently, it looks like they're positioning their PsychoBallistics Fockers as a mid-range option.

Watching K2 and National butt heads will be all kinds of interesting.

[deathstalker]

As bad as this new aquisition kind of is, I am kind of excited to see what wal mart has planned for the autococker. My guess is that they will be the same but with real low grade materials used for production.
Thank you for posting and removing all doubt. :rolleyes:

[11_Mile_TMaster]

WGP had no reason to deal with SP. The Worr-Blade, is just an E-Blade with some minor cosmetic differences. While I do not know the details of the deal between Eclipse and WGP as far as I know it had nothing whatsoever to do with one company buying the other. As far as I know, WGP first "endorsed" the e-blade as the e-cocker upgrade of choice and brought out the e-orracle. Then, the next season, they introduced the worr-blade and a few more e-cockers, but all using the basic e-blade.

However, WGP by itself, had no reason to fear SP as they never produced an e-gun, as far as I know.

Ogre


Meh, It's more complicated than that. Especially since they sell things like the E-Class Guns, the Superstock, and The Naughty Dogg Cocker, all of which have E-frames.

Plus, a couple years ago, they made a Electronic Blowback with Cocker threads, called the e-ranger.

[ogre55]

Meh, It's more complicated than that. Especially since they sell things like the E-Class Guns, the Superstock, and The Naughty Dogg Cocker, all of which have E-frames.

Plus, a couple years ago, they made a Electronic Blowback with Cocker threads, called the e-ranger.

As I have already said at least twice in this thread, all the E-Class guns that WGP makes use the Worr-Blade, which is an E-Blade that looks slightly different. As far as I know all the Worr-Blade are made by Planet which has a license to sell their products.

The E-Ranger is no longer being produced as far as I know and is thus a non issue.

Ogre

[DiRTyBuNNy]

As I have already said at least twice in this thread, all the E-Class guns that WGP makes use the Worr-Blade, which is an E-Blade that looks slightly different. As far as I know all the Worr-Blade are made by Planet which has a license to sell their products.

The E-Ranger is no longer being produced as far as I know and is thus a non issue.

Ogre

You're close...but not quite right...let me make it simple for those that don't understand that WorrBlade/eBlade connection. WGP makes the WorrBlade frame itself in California and puts eBlade components into it under a license from Eclipse. So yes, by virtue of their agreement with Eclipse, they fall under the umbrella of Eclipse's deal with SP.

And for all those that keep putting BE and WGP together...that's not going to happen whatsoever. You probably don't even realize how many brands K2 owns (Planet Earth, Adio and Hawk Shoes, Rawlings, Worth, Shakespeare, Pflueger, Stearns, K2, Ride, Olin, Morrow, Tubbs and Atlas). They like to promote brand identity...not destroy it...why buy a company with it's own brand identity and then turn it into one you already own?

[atm743]

Ummmm that's a shocker, not an Imp.
umm it really is a impy. its the new rat. check out the this site www.e-paintballoutlet.com theres a sneake peake of the new rat.

[spantol]

Do note that the site refers to a "sneak peek" at the new "Rat paintball marker." It's quite clearly a Shocker, and indeed, the EPBO folks have made repeated mention of their upcoming Rat Shockers over at PBNation.


umm it really is a impy. its the new rat. check out the this site www.e-paintballoutlet.com theres a sneake peake of the new rat.

[Deep Sixx]

umm it really is a impy. its the new rat. check out the this site www.e-paintballoutlet.com theres a sneake peake of the new rat.

No. It's a Shocker.

sixx

[atm743]

ok ?? i allways saw a rat as an impules. jest cuse it looks like hte 03 shocker dosent mean that every marker that looks like it is going to be called a shocker. but whatever

[JAM]

yeah they just call their in-house guns Rat _____. Rat Impulse, now Rat Shocker. I'm not sold on thelook, but it's always nice to see a variety of companies do some different millings.

And I agree with those who said the K2 acquisition is probably a good thing for WORR and I think for Paintball. K2 is a good company with lots of marketing and manufacturing experience and that can only help legitimize the sport.

As for clones taking part of the cocker market- sure, they take someof it, but most of the clones are licensed and milled from WORR bodies, giving bud some of the money from their sale.

j

[Deep Sixx]

ok ?? i allways saw a rat as an impules. jest cuse it looks like hte 03 shocker dosent mean that every marker that looks like it is going to be called a shocker. but whatever

It IS a Shocker... a Rat Shocker. Just because it's a Rat-gun doesn't mean it has to be an Impulse.

Look at the file names of the pics on EPBO's website.

sixx

[thecavemankevin]

National's been doing brand/market pairing for awhile now, with their plethora of Spyder clones on the low-end, and bevy of Intimidators on the high-end. More recently, it looks like they're positioning their PsychoBallistics Fockers as a mid-range option.

Watching K2 and National butt heads will be all kinds of interesting.

not trying to argue with you, because i have agreed with everything else you have said about multi branding etc...but national doesn't own kingman, nor does it own Intimidator/Bob Long's delta. It is a distributor that has some minor ownership in some of the companies it distributes for. I know it has some ownership of the timmy, but not control. And i don't think, but do not know for sure if they own anything of kingman other than distrobution rights. Thus national is not technically multi-branding...or atleast not with that example.

You do obviously know what your talking about though...one of the best examples of mutli branding would be GM's Sunfire and Chevy's Cavalier. Same car different company.

so in the end, is it possible that we will see some of BE's junky guns under the WGP name? Yes, it is more than possible...it is quite probably (but i doubt anytime soon).

[spantol]

To clarify, I didn't claim that National had anything to do with Kingman. I mentioned the glut of Spyder clones (the Icon Z, the Mongoose, etc), for which they are the exclusive distributor.

It was my understanding that they perform a similar role for BLAST--they let Bob call his own shots, but they're the sole distributor. If that's not the case, my bad, but you clearly got where I was going with that. K2 and National are both shaping up to be strong brand-based paintball powerhouses.


not trying to argue with you, because i have agreed with everything else you have said about multi branding etc...but national doesn't own kingman, nor does it own Intimidator/Bob Long's delta. It is a distributor that has some minor ownership in some of the companies it distributes for. I know it has some ownership of the timmy, but not control. And i don't think, but do not know for sure if they own anything of kingman other than distrobution rights. Thus national is not technically multi-branding...or atleast not with that example.

[logamus]

It's like calling Aston Martin's garbage just because Mazda makes some low-end crap cars.

sixx
SIR!!!! my mazda is greatness!!!111

[Plazmic]

Uh...yeah. I'm guessing you don't have a low end Mazda, right?

[firemoth]

Bud Orr isn't leaving his company.

This is a good thing because now WGP will have a large corporation behind it. If anything, quality will increase.

Cockers will not be sold at Wal-Mart.

BE was pretty much unchanged after k2 bought them, WGP will be the same.

[GT]

Uh...yeah. I'm guessing you don't have a low end Mazda, right?

<-------------- My low end mazda :cool:

http://www.jayloo.com/lib/get_file.php?id=2369

[Deep Sixx]

SIR!!!! my mazda is greatness!!!111

I said "some", not all. Some are pretty nice. But, my analogy was a comparison between Mazda and Aston Martin (both owned an manufactured by Ford). Compared to A-M, they're not much.

sixx

[Blazingace]

Interesting. Soon all paintball will be brought to you by one company. Kinda like Microsoft. Oh well......I got my X-Mag so I am happy.

[SeeK]

Humm.... interesting, this is news to me too. Well lets see, gun with lots of parts, needs service, can sell lots of upgrades and has no patents. Give it to BE so they can do what? Make it cheaper and cut the service?

Remember, when they bought JT they said the product would not be sold in Wall Mart.....

The last of the cowboys,

AGD

Doesn't this mean that Tom is the last of the cowboys?

[xXHavokXx]

Another shining example: Ugly Dodge Stealth is the same as the Beautiful 3000 GT. Just the 3kgt doesnt have the boomerang, and isnt...you know....ugly.





not trying to argue with you, because i have agreed with everything else you have said about multi branding etc...but national doesn't own kingman, nor does it own Intimidator/Bob Long's delta. It is a distributor that has some minor ownership in some of the companies it distributes for. I know it has some ownership of the timmy, but not control. And i don't think, but do not know for sure if they own anything of kingman other than distrobution rights. Thus national is not technically multi-branding...or atleast not with that example.

You do obviously know what your talking about though...one of the best examples of mutli branding would be GM's Sunfire and Chevy's Cavalier. Same car different company.

so in the end, is it possible that we will see some of BE's junky guns under the WGP name? Yes, it is more than possible...it is quite probably (but i doubt anytime soon).

[QUINCYMASSGUY]

I hope no one opposing this shops at Blockbuster Video, Walmart, Stop N Shop, A+P, KMart, IGA, Best Buy, Circuit City, etc, etc, etc, because what we're witnessing here is the same stuff mom-and-pop video stores, grocery stores, and such have been encountering for the last couple decades with the big giants coming in. Some of the biggest names started on the same level as their competitors and just grew and used whatever tactics possible to grow and become empires. No one likes to hear about the small bookstore having to close, some even protest it, but the people who don't like it can often be found shopping at the same big store driving the little one out of business because regardless of their morals they can't turn down the better selection and pricing a larger company can offer. That is what K2 has offered WGP, a chance for them to be part of a team on a rise instead of the small independent store that keeps saying they'll fight it and looking for support, but in the end find themselves right out of the game. Smartparts are evil, childish, manipulative con men, but K2 is not and is a prime example of a company following the tradition Nike and other greats did on the way to the type of market you see in other industries. I wish WGP the best of luck, and I hope other companies like AGD and AKA see the paths ahead of them and if it comes down to "float with the team" or "sink on their own" they take the better option.

[Plazmic]

Man, QUINCYMASSGUY, I was with right up until you said that AGD and AKA need to sell to the big guys, too. I can see a partnership maybe being a good idea as it can allow for distribution, marketing, and lower cost production. But if every company sells to the big guys then we lose things like personal customer service, company owners listening to their gun owners, and we most likely lose the really innovative minds like Tom Kaye. You've got to have some private makers or you just end of with Best Buy and Dell, with their customer service based in India. Then the sport goes to crap and we're all shooting basically the same gun.

[bryceeden]

My WGP sales rep refuses to talk about any thing related to K2, but I can already see the WGP Triad or Orion or Tritan or what ever its called now. I don't imagine cockers will change much, but I can see a WGP line of Brass Eagle blow backs in the near future.

[QUINCYMASSGUY]

By going now, they can exercise options like maintaining creative control or a senior position in the company, which would allow them to maintain the benefits you so listed. If they wait and get crushed in the market, they'll have far less "eggs in their basket" and less leverage, weaker brand name, and less perceived strengths that the large company would want to invest in, hence smaller investment or less options for the smaller company to maintain, maybe even loss of creative control.

[anxiouspaintblr]

really sorry of this has been asked already but who is K2? dont they make snowboards and what not?

[Plazmic]

Yeah, that's a good point. If they want to remain in control and just take on the corporate backing while giving up most of the profits then that is an option. The thing is, though, that I've never seen that happen where the original owner was not pushed out pretty quickly afterwards. Some small companies benefit from an acquisition, but usually the small company is destroyed and the corporation destroys what made the small company great. Kinko's is a good example of that. Kinko's did a great job of protecting its workers, training them, paid them well, offered lots of incentive to move up within the company. Then they went corporate and now they've been sold twice, the founder and his family have been pushed out, and it's no fun to work there anymore. The good poeple they had are jumping ship and their competition is booming because they good workers are going over and taking the customers with them.

I do see K2 as an exception to the rule of overpowering corporate destruction. They tend to protect the individual companies they take in.
That is not the way with most companies. The concerns being expressed here are based on what people have seen from every other corporate buy-out. People are forcasting the destruction of WGP because that's what normally happens. If it works out for WGP and K2 really does keep them independant of the lesser brands, then you can bet we'll see other small companies selling out to large corporations and then being ruined. We're going to see some of the small guys disappear because of this. I hope AGD is not one of those. I think Tom Kaye is too smart to make that bad a decision, but if AGD is stressing him out and he is tired of dealing with a paintball community that has no idea what it really wants, he could just sell to the highest bidder and let it go.