X-valve won't fit

[psychobillygoat]

:mad:
Ok, my x-valve is not fitting in to my micro mag body. The LVL 10 bolt is what the hang up is. It's too big. Is this happened to anyone before? I see many other threads that say x valves work fine in micro mags. I'd hate to see my micro go to waste. Any Ideas????
My classic valve w/stock bolt fits just fine I've tried both of my LVL10 bolts and neither fit.
Would a LVL 7 bolt work on the X-valve if i change the power tube tip?

[Vircolac]

But it wasn't the bolt that was causing the problem. What happened with mine was the on/off assembly was catching on the bottom as I tried to insert the X-Valve past that first step into the Micro body. Basically I just pushed the on/off firmly into the valve, took my time and gently worked the valve into the body.

I find it hard to believe that there'd be that much difference between a stock bolt dimensions and the X-Valve bolt to cause you problems; it just doesn't sound like something AGD would do from a manufacturing standpoint. Take a look at the on/off and see if that's your problem, and whatever you do, don't get mad and start forcing or pounding things in.... I almost did! Keep us posted.

[Tunaman]

But it wasn't the bolt that was causing the problem. What happened with mine was the on/off assembly was catching on the bottom as I tried to insert the X-Valve past that first step into the Micro body. Basically I just pushed the on/off firmly into the valve, took my time and gently worked the valve into the body.

I find it hard to believe that there'd be that much difference between a stock bolt dimensions and the X-Valve bolt to cause you problems; it just doesn't sound like something AGD would do from a manufacturing standpoint. Take a look at the on/off and see if that's your problem, and whatever you do, don't get mad and start forcing or pounding things in.... I almost did! Keep us posted.
Just drop the bare bolt down in the bare body. If it doesn't fit easily, you need to get a body with the proper bore in it. It may need to be re-bored to fix it. Contact Proteam and see if they have a fix for it.

[psychobillygoat]

Tunaman - Thanks, I did try the bolt seperately and that how I was sure. It's soo terribly close. Defintately going to need bored out a little. I e-mailed Pro Team today to see if they can help with that. Thanks again and I'll keep the thread posted on what I find out.

[athomas]

I had a proteam body with the same problem. I was able to sand the inside of the body a bit to open up the breach and metal retaining washer. It wasn't a big issue with me as I was getting the body cromed anyway. You can also sand the outside edge of the bolt down a bit at the tip. It doesn't take much.

[psychobillygoat]

Thanks, maybe i'll give that a shot. it doesn't seem like much needs to come off.

[psychobillygoat]

Well, I got it to fit. There was a size difference at just the end of the bolt. Once I got that smoothed out, it went right in. I didn't need to do anything to the body at all. not sure why the end of the LVL 10 bolt is a little bit larger than the rest of the bolt. If anyone has info on that, that would be cool. But it works now and thats the important thing. Thanks for the help guys.

[RRfireblade]

You got it right.

The L10 bolt is slightly larger in diameter than the L7 bolt.The simplist fix is lightly sanding or filing the very end of the bolt till it fits.It's not a PTP problem but an AGD one.

Same holds true for SFL owners.

Glad you got it figured out. :)

[Tunaman]

It IS a PTP problem and NOT an AGD problem. Sanding your bolt down at the tip will ruin it and increase blowback. Thats the reason the tip of the bolt is bigger.

[RRfireblade]

Not true.

It was oversized to help blowback on "Automags" not Micros whose breach size is typically tighter.

[Tunaman]

Not true.

It was oversized to help blowback on "Automags" not Micros whose breach size is typically tighter.Well...let me rephrase it then so people understand where the problem lies. Micromags' breeches are not "typically tighter", they are "typically the wrong size"...as are most of the other measurements and tolerences that make up that line of markers.

[RRfireblade]

That's your opinion and your entitled to it.

I realize it's difficult for 'some' people to understand that a Micromag is a "MicroMag" and not an attempt to copy an Automag part for part.They are thier own design and use thier own specifications(which BTW,Tom is quite comfortable with as he still to this day authorizes PTP to build product based on his valve systems)One of which,is a breech spec that was designed to help eleviate the blow back typically found in most automags as did Shocktech on the SFLs.Obviously Tom had the same concern when he decided to increase the L10 bolt diameter to have the same overall effect in his own "Automag." ;)

[Tunaman]

Oh...sorry. I didnt know there was a different "breech spec" for the micromag. You wouldnt happen to know what it is compared to the AGD spec might you? And is that spec anything like the "on/off pin length spec", and the "sear pin location spec", or the "body/rail height spec" that PTP uses? I just see so many different specs on these PTP markers that I often wonder if they use a dremel to make them.

[RRfireblade]

Yeah 'cause all Mags built to identical specs. :rolleyes:

That's why you can put any mag rail on any other mag.......

any mag valve in any other mag.......

any mag on/off asembly in any other mag valve......

any Mag sear in any other mag......

any currently available "upgrade' in any mag......

Oh wait.......you can't.

OR.....

Why AGD offers on/off pins in every concievable size.....

Why AGD still offers 5 different P/T spacers.....

Why the L10 comes with a hundred (est) combinations of shims and carrier sizes in order to make it work in every Mag.....

Why the ULT upgrade comes with half a dozen of it's own shims and you still sometimes need more.....

Why AGD still sells the "Superbolt".....not.....

Why every software version available has come w/ at least one glitch from the factory.....

Why some people have valves that aren't engraved properly in their Xmags.....

Eh............that's enough of that......believe whatever you want.....it really doesn't matter to me either way.

:cool:

[LockNLoad]

Yeah 'cause all Mags built to identical specs. :rolleyes:
That's why you can put any mag rail on any other mag.......
any mag valve in any other mag.......
any mag on/off asembly in any other mag valve......
any Mag sear in any other mag......
any currently available "upgrade' in any mag......
Oh wait.......you can't.

OR.....
Why AGD offers on/off pins in every concievable size.....
Why AGD still offers 5 different P/T spacers.....
Why the L10 comes with a hundred (est) combinations of shims and carrier sizes in order to make it work in every Mag.....
Why the ULT upgrade comes with half a dozen of it's own shims and you still sometimes need more.....
Why AGD still sells the "Superbolt".....not.....
Why every software version available has come w/ at least one glitch from the factory.....
Why some people have valves that aren't engraved properly in their Xmags.....
Eh............that's enough of that......believe whatever you want.....it really doesn't matter to me either way.

:cool:

It is my understanding that all rails are interchangeable between all AGD markers except the Classic RT. This does not include the PTP marker or the SFL as those are not bonified 100% AGD markers.

Valves are interchangeable too, except Classic RT. I would think for all of them, since to be a mag would require that it uses the same valve.

Aren't the on/off assemblies interchangeable between their respective valves? For example, a Minimag valve assembly can go into an Automag assembly, and a RT valve assembly can go into an X Valve and vice versa? It would be silly to think that the assemblies of a classic valve would fit a RT and X valve.

What upgrades aren't cross-compatable within the AGD family of MiniMag, Automag, RT Pro & E-mag?

From having read the tech forum here, the on/off pins and spacers are two things that are meant to be adjustable. The LX kit has shims, which are the equivalent of the Classic valve spacer.

I am not as familiar with the ULE trigger, but my recollection is that the shims are there to be able to adjust the length of the ULE trigger pin, like you would do with different on/off pins with the standard on/off.

[RRfireblade]

my understanding

Is generally inaccurate or somewhat incomplete. :)


It really doesn't matter,I shouldn't have even went that far.It's obviously a disagreement based largely on personal bias and semantics which will never amount to anything.

I'm out. ;)

[LockNLoad]

Is generally inaccurate or somewhat incomplete. :)

If you're going to make this statement you should at least back it up with some facts. Drop some of your knowledge, and back up your statement.:)

Or do you lack the facts?

[Potatoboy]

That's why you can put any mag rail on any other mag.......
All rails but the RT rail are compatable with the proper sear assembly for that rail.

any mag valve in any other mag.......
All valves but the RT valve are compatable and made to identical dimensions.

any mag on/off asembly in any other mag valve......
You can swap any and all on/off assemblies. They will all work, just some not so well due to differences in the original valve's indended use. (ULT in classic or emag for example)

any Mag sear in any other mag......
Sears are interchangable and made to the same specifications excluding the type of axle pivot, which was changed for ease of assembly.

any currently available "upgrade' in any mag......
not sure where you're going with this one, so I'll disregard it.

Why AGD offers on/off pins in every concievable size.....
AGD pin sizes were mostly created due to long term wear on rails, or customer modifications, such as reanno or painting. The pin size adjusts for tolerances that have come out of spec.

Why AGD still offers 5 different P/T spacers.....
Why the L10 comes with a hundred (est) combinations of shims and carrier sizes in order to make it work in every Mag.....
above two can be answered as one point
Orings are not perfect. No oring manufacturer promises the same exact size each time. This is a problem when dealing with tight tolerances, and carriers and spacers exist to again, pull up the slack caused by the variation in orings.

Why the ULT upgrade comes with half a dozen of it's own shims and you still sometimes need more.....
The ULT shims are adjustment for personal preference of trigger pull and nothing else.

Why AGD still sells the "Superbolt".....not.....
I'm not sure why you bring this up here, but yes, it was a failed product, has been discontinued, and anyone with a bolt was offered a refund towards a level 10 which is based around the same properties of a lighter bolt.

Why every software version available has come w/ at least one glitch from the factory.....
The only factory supplied glitch version was 3.0, this was fixed swiftly with 3.2, and 3.0 markers were reflashed.

Why some people have valves that aren't engraved properly in their Xmags.....
All of these people were offered a discount, or the ability to wait for a proper valve. If you declied, it was your fault not AGD's

[RRfireblade]

Hmm,
This really wasn't the point......

(Editted because I don't wish to get into a debate over sematics,the point I was simply making is different mags require different specs as they relate to on/off pin lengths and shims and spacers and not always due to wear but do to minor variances from gun to gun or changes as models evolve over time)


FYI,
This is/was not a slam at AGD,just to prove a point that specs due vary over time and through periods of production.In the case of PTP,your talking about hand made,hand assembled markers made in extremely small runs and due to variations in machining can and due vary over time,I don't argue that,it's true of any machined product.Micros were never ment to interchange part for part with every other Mag out there and it's unfair for people to expect them to.Look at the first runs of Xmags from AGDE for example.It's also unfair to expect them all to be produced to be absolutely identical to every other one when they are built in such small quantities over long periods of time.Back in the day,if you wanted a "custom" mag,PTP was there and offered a true "Custom Mag".If you wanted mass production you could always go stock. And lastly,just because there are minor variations over time,does not mean that they are "sloppy" or "incorrect",the fact is that some parts of the gun are actually "Tighter" in some specs than stock Mags.The breech and the valve pocket for instance.The fact they they are hand assembled and hand tuned individually is perfectly acceptable unless you randomly swap around parts from various sources.

Try putting a stock Harley tank on a O.C.C. bike.....I guess they are just built "incorrect" also. ;)